Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Krusty on December 17, 2007, 12:32:46 AM
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Who else would like to see the P-38J skin "20FG/79FS by Jager" removed from the game?
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/p38j/skin8.jpg)
It's almost completely inaccurate for a skin. It's not very well made, either. It's supposed to be a MTO unit, but it's got japanese kill marks on the nose (PTO) and it's got garish red outlines around the stars and bars, which would have only been present for a short window of time in 1943, before the P-38J was in service.
There is no real way for doing this, so I'd like to get a bit of a petition going here.
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It's supposed to be an 8th AF 20th FG bird. Not even close.
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Dan do you have any profiles of what the skin should look like?
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Originally posted by Larry
Dan do you have any profiles of what the skin should look like?
It's a 79th FS, 20th FG P38J coded MC-Y flown by Lt. Russell Bebout
It would be OD/Gray with blue surround to the Star and Bar. 20th 38Js would not have been around for the short lived red surround. Spinners and the front of the cowling should be either the ID white or the 20th FG Yellow depending on timeframe and it probably carried invasion stripes at some point and the white square on the tail of the 79th FS MC would be on the tail boom behind the radiator in white with a white Y on the radiator housing.
There's a photo of it somewhere in my stuff. I can't find it but will keep looking. We went over this one another time as well :)
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Heres one of its stable-mates at Kings Cliffe, MC-Z. Note the obvious demarcation between the OD/Gray and the dark surround to the Star-and-bar (ie- Insignia Blue), not to mention the 79th FS square-tail squadron marking.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/20fg-p38.jpg)
Also, no 20th FG P-38 ever had a single Meatball flag on it, let alone 14 of them.
Heres how a spring 1944 20th P-38 should look-
(http://80thfs.homestead.com/10.jpg)
And heres two examples of how they actually did their killboards- it wasn't just a box of flag decals like they did in the Pacific (not to mention no 20th pilot was credited with 14 kills, period).
(http://80thfs.homestead.com/mydad1.jpg)
(http://80thfs.homestead.com/realcute.jpg)
And like Dan said, we've been trying to get rid of "The Abomination" since day 1.
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Well then I think you guys sould send an email to HTC if you want it outa the game.
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I'm all for getting rid of it.
By the way,
P-38J 79 MC-Y Bebout Lt. Russell W Betsy VI 20th FG, 79th FS
Can't find a picture.
wrngway
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Originally posted by Larry
Well then I think you guys sould send an email to HTC if you want it outa the game.
We've been trying for two and a half years now Larry. They've added many and removed several P-38J skins through that time, but The Abomination is still there.
All I can think is that Jager has some kind of dirt on Skuzzy and they are afraid to tick him off. How it even got accepted is beyond me, I've had skins refused for minor issues with panels not lining up quite right or wheel hubs being wrong (even though they came directly off the default HTC skin) and yet somehow that... thing... made it in.
Its all spelled out in this pamphlet... :noid
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Then one of you remake it. Good chance they'll then take his out.
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Thats the skin I fly. :(
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The next step is to send HTC an e-mail requesting it. I first wanted to see if I was the only one. With a large portion of the skinning community behind it, it would carry more weight.
Treize, thanks for the pics, those will help when I include a link to the thread in the e-mail I send!
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Get rid of it, also f there is another skin that we should get rid of is this one IMO:
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/p51d/skin8.jpg)
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Aside from any implementation reasons (i.e. how the skinner made it into a skin), why? It would appear to be somewhat historically accurate, despite any other "quality" reasons.
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I prefer only historically accurate skins make it into the game. Beyond that, I prefer skins from a variety of theaters and FGs, from a number of different skinners.
The black P-38 may have a following among people who aren't aware how inaccurate it is, so HTC will get complaints no matter what it does in this case.
Having a policy and sticking to it is probably the best way to defend against complaints, and I thought the policy was "historically accurate skins only".
What skins have come and gone for the '38?
btw, speaking of skin inaccuracies - I just noticed out wing tanks on the default P-38G skin.
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Originally posted by oboe
What skins have come and gone for the '38?
I forget specifics (I'm lucky I can remember how to get home from work every day) but there is at least 1 P-38J that I remember seeing and thinking "wow, what a piece of crap" and in the next skinpack it wasn't there anymore. I think it was a 1st FG/71st FS one.
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Thats the skin I fly. :(
Noone ever accused you Rome boys of having good taste.
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Black abomination -> Recycle Bin
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Originally posted by Krusty
Aside from any implementation reasons (i.e. how the skinner made it into a skin), why?
Because the P-51 que (among others) is loaded with stuff like this. Free up room for better quality skins, regardless of the sequence of submission.
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Ugliest thing Ive ever seen in AH....faster they get rid of it the better.
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I hope Skuzzy will ever notice this thread.
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Krustys a cheating little hacker!!:p
Now he might se it.:aok
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(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc191/KnightCH/skuzzysignal.gif)
Done.
Regards,
Subway
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Is not the correct version already the default skin?
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S.A.P.P. Has taken a vote and we have decided that this skin WILL be gone next update. The appropriate measure have been taken... and if HTC knows what's good for them, they will do anything to keep those pictures out of the press.
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*Shuffles papers, looking for Corky and Raptor signature on the official S.A.P.P tinfoil (This is what we use instead of paper, since Spixes fears global warming). Hands it to HTC and they say......*
To be continued in: The ack-ack conspiracy theory: The Petition
Regards,
Subway
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Originally posted by Treize69
Noone ever accused you Rome boys of having good taste.
:D
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It's goooone.
:aok
wrngway
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It is?!?!?! SWEET PYRO ON A PIZZA!!!
Woohoo!!!!
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Replaced by a beauty of an 80th FS OD/Gray skin done by Oboe :)
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Oboe... my hero!
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FYI not too be mean, but we have a tail boom off of an early 38J that does have the red outline around the star and bar. Regardless of whether it was supposed to be painted on their or not, it was painted on that boom and several others that all came from 38J's.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
FYI not too be mean, but we have a tail boom off of an early 38J that does have the red outline around the star and bar. Regardless of whether it was supposed to be painted on their or not, it was painted on that boom and several others that all came from 38J's.
The 38 in question was a 20th FG OD/Gray bird from summer of 44 that Jager did in all black with japanese kill markings and red outlined star and bar.
Photos of the actual bird and those from that time frame show that it's clearly not what was skinned as Betsy V. And it's an ETO bird. No Japanese kills :)
Early Js did have the red outline star and bar no doubt.
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Gotcha Dan, I was just going off Krusty's original post that said J's weren't out when the Red Outline was painted on.
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What was the cutoff date on the red outline?
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I am not sure Krusty. It seems that the men in the field cared far less about "cut off dates" than did the people making them.
It's kind of like arguing whether the 475th FG aircraft ever had shark's mouthes on their aircraft. Yes they did, because they inherited an awful lot of aircraft from the 39th who did use them. Guys in the field simply could not be bothered to paint over something so trivial.
In the end, the more work we do, and more history I see, the less I am likely to believe a book by someone who never has seen the history, but has read the stuff the "rule makers" pumped out.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I am not sure Krusty. It seems that the men in the field cared far less about "cut off dates" than did the people making them.
It's kind of like arguing whether the 475th FG aircraft ever had shark's mouthes on their aircraft. Yes they did, because they inherited an awful lot of aircraft from the 39th who did use them. Guys in the field simply could not be bothered to paint over something so trivial.
In the end, the more work we do, and more history I see, the less I am likely to believe a book by someone who never has seen the history, but has read the stuff the "rule makers" pumped out.
The Red Surround to the star and bar was ordered on in June 43 and changed to blue in August 43. If you look at 5th AF 38s as an example, they for the most part never put the red surround on and only a plain white bar was behind the star and blue circle.
The 8th AF had the red and began changing it when the order came down but this wasn't something that happened over night.
To illustrate Bodhi's point.
This is a well known photo of a veteran 8th AF B17G taken in July 1944 Note the replacement panel on the left wing. Red surround to the star and bar. Note the fuselage has the blue surround. The red is still there almost a year after being 'ordered' changed.
As with anything to do with WW2 aircraft markings, unless you have photo proof, or like Bodhi see the bits up close, there are no hard fast rules.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/RedOutline.jpg)
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I would love to see Fester do that ^^^^^^^ B-17 skin.
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looks like that 17 has seen better days