Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Anaxogoras on December 17, 2007, 04:17:50 AM

Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Anaxogoras on December 17, 2007, 04:17:50 AM
I'm new to AH but have played other online flight sims in the past.  Here a couple of observations:

On multiple occasions I've witnessed 3-4 fighters take out all the ack at a field or city just by strafing, no bombs or rockets--and one attacker is left with a smoking engine.

Another frequent sight is the suicidal guy flying laps around the base with all of the AAA firing... and he keeps going and going...:rolleyes:

The exception are the 5 inch guns of the cv's; I try to keep my distance.

I can think of a lot of benefits for arena play if the AAA at fields and cities were stronger at close range.   More level bombers and attack aircraft would be one consequence.    I'm sure the rest of you can think of other examples.

Anyone else think this is a valid concern?
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Slash27 on December 17, 2007, 04:38:02 AM
Ack was actually beefed up not too long ago. And 3-4 cannon birds working over ack is better than one guy deacking and porking. Its not perfect maybe, but it is better than it was.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Masherbrum on December 17, 2007, 04:38:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Ack was actually beefed up not too long ago. And 3-4 cannon birds working over ack is better than one guy deacking and porking. Its not perfect maybe, but it is better than it was.
Much better.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Bruv119 on December 17, 2007, 04:41:59 AM
At least an element of teamwork is required to do it successfully.


Please take a plane of your choice to a LARGE airfield and proceed to de-ack it.  If you are very patient and have rockets it can be done.   However in the MA someone is sure to jump into a field gun before you have finished all of the autos without damage.

You will die i assure you.

Bruv
~S~
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Lusche on December 17, 2007, 05:12:56 AM
If you keep playing for some time, you will notice a lot more complaints about how unwordly effective field ack in game is, accompanied by a lot of requests for downgrading or even entirely removing ack from AH2 ;)
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: pluck on December 17, 2007, 06:47:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
If you keep playing for some time, you will notice a lot more complaints about how unwordly effective field ack in game is, accompanied by a lot of requests for downgrading or even entirely removing ack from AH2 ;)


or upgrading to more player controlled ack (especially the black variety):aok
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: ColKLink on December 17, 2007, 07:08:30 AM
Ack is alot better than it used to be. It used to be far too easy to deack a base,.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: moot on December 17, 2007, 07:18:03 AM
Ack accuracy improving as you get closer would be great.
And box flak needs to go. Client-side real time 5' shell ballistics the same way 8' shells are modeled now.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: goober69 on December 17, 2007, 07:26:02 AM
easy way to de ack
:drop troops over ack from 7k to distract the auto guns while four or more planes strafe them. may take two goons . lol

but yea the maned guns are killer those are the first ones i go after.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Spikes on December 17, 2007, 07:28:19 AM
I up some 17s with 100lb'ers, climb to 7K and pick off the ack by dropping 1 bomb per ack. :p
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: doc1kelley on December 17, 2007, 11:02:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by goober69
easy way to de ack
:drop troops over ack from 7k to distract the auto guns while four or more planes strafe them. may take two goons . lol

but yea the maned guns are killer those are the first ones i go after.


I wondered just how long it would take someone to bring this lame tactic up.  It's just gaming the game, just like those who send an M-3 to a base and drop troops and ditch and do it again and again.

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 17, 2007, 01:39:46 PM
B-25H is great for deacking bases.  Can fly outside of ack range and lob in those 75mm rounds.

ack-ack
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: mussie on December 17, 2007, 01:49:41 PM
Bah just grab a 152, some alt and dive in.

if your going over 450+ or so the ack cant track chit...

easy

:p
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Krusty on December 17, 2007, 02:08:06 PM
It can. I've done the same in a 190D and been going 450+ and still been pinged to hell and gone before I made it across the width of a medium-sized field.


Anaxo: The reason a large group can do it is because the ack is dividing its attention amongst them, hence less gunfire for each plane to deal with. You try it alone, and you're not going to make it.

It used to be a single spit or la could just go in to a field and deack. It wouldn't even have to dodge much, or extend, it would just turn, shoot, turn, shoot, etc, and then the field was down. It was ridiculously simple.

It's much better now.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: crockett on December 17, 2007, 02:11:58 PM
I'd love it if all the bases had at least 1 of the CV style manned acks. I think it's the 5 incher and have it hardened so it took at least 1000lbs to kill it.

Have one on the sm air field, Vbase and ports.
Have 2 on the med and large air fields.

It's far too easy to de-ack a field specially when you have entire groups that live on nothing but vulching. However If HTC just made the ack stronger it would end up with tards doing nothing but hiding in ack even more than they do now.

If manned guns popped much faster, say every 5 mins and add in some CV style flack or what ever the 5" gun is. Well then it might help control the problem.

I'd also love to see no perks given or points counted toward rank on kills that happen with in 10 seconds of spawning on the runway or in a VH.
Title: Re: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: B@tfinkV on December 17, 2007, 02:12:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Anaxogoras

On multiple occasions I've witnessed 3-4 fighters take out all the ack at a field or city just by strafing, no bombs or rockets--and one attacker is left with a smoking engine.
 


must be noobs, 3-4 vets will take down a medium field ack and suffer no loses :)
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: MajIssue on December 17, 2007, 02:20:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
If you keep playing for some time, you will notice a lot more complaints about how unwordly effective field ack in game is, accompanied by a lot of requests for downgrading or even entirely removing ack from AH2 ;)


You are on the money Lusche... De-acking even a small airbase and town is a dicey proposition as a "single" even with rockets and bombs in a heavy fighter! The patience required to de-ack an airbase is completely offset by some pesky opponant upping a fighter or jumping in an Ostie/M-16 or the "Soft" gun mentioned above, and sending you to the tower to ponder your folly! Usually one or two hits and you're through...:aok
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: MotorOil1 on December 17, 2007, 02:40:30 PM
Agreed, 3-4 guys working together or even at the same time can take a field down no problem.  

I wouldn't try it as a single.  I'll usually go in if I see someone has drawn fire.  It's easy to pop one or two acks and get out.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Anaxogoras on December 17, 2007, 02:41:20 PM
Ok, "better than it used to be."  That still leaves room for improvement and adjustment to optimize arena play.  To make the point clear, we're not going for historical accuracy: if you crash your La7 or Spit16 there's usually another one waiting for you.  It's for that kind of reason that a deterent like AAA must be meaningful to create balance.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: crockett on December 17, 2007, 03:53:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MajIssue
You are on the money Lusche... De-acking even a small airbase and town is a dicey proposition as a "single" even with rockets and bombs in a heavy fighter! The patience required to de-ack an airbase is completely offset by some pesky opponant upping a fighter or jumping in an Ostie/M-16 or the "Soft" gun mentioned above, and sending you to the tower to ponder your folly! Usually one or two hits and you're through...:aok


I think it really just depends on the plane you are flying. Try to deack a field in say a Ki-84 and it can be done and I can do it by myself. Yet it's dicey to do it because those plane get pilot wounds so easy.

However turn around and do it with a LA7, a Yak or even a C hog and it's almost a cake walk. In regards to manned guns, they almost aren't even an issue IMO on a small base.

If I want to de-ack a small AF, I start by hitting each end and I always hit the manned guns along with the ack that's at each end first. The only manned gun that is a threat id the one in the center be even it's a easy kill unless the guy manning it is good.

I think if they made the auto ack any stronger it would result in more ack hugging. Hence the reason I suggest 5 min rebuilds on manned ack and then maybe one  or two of the CV style 5 inch guns.

As a side note, I never use rockets on ack. I always use cannons so I don't miss it by accident.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Saxman on December 17, 2007, 04:51:29 PM
Ack-Ack hit it on the mark. Just grab the 25H and snipe the guns from 2k out with the pumpkin chucker. ;)
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Rich46yo on December 17, 2007, 05:14:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
B-25H is great for deacking bases.  Can fly outside of ack range and lob in those 75mm rounds.

ack-ack


                       I'd like to see the 25H used more often the way the airplane was designed to be. In airspace controlled by friendly fighters the 25H can put a serious hurt on a TT or airbase targeted for takeover. I flew one last night that I upped during a "fly your own mission".

                    Sadly you see the 25H used less and less in LW.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Yippee38 on December 17, 2007, 05:16:09 PM
Jump in a field gun and see how effective you are at it.  It's not as easy as you might think.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: ROC on December 17, 2007, 06:11:13 PM
Hmm, Optimizing arena play, defining balance, noteworthy effort.  One slight problem, you don't get to decide what is balance nor optimized :)

Those are assumptions based on your style of play, it's possible it's not broken for "most" players.

Ack, for the sake of another opinion, is worthless and shouldn't be relied on to protect a base.  If "I" wanted to play against a computer I'd do something offline.  Better to rely on the fact that the ack is worthless and get the Human players together and defend.

Just saying, it's all about perspective, and one's definition of balanced or optimized is nothing but an opinion.

I'm all for yanking the auto ack all together and doing nothing but manned ack, I mean, this is a multi player game for a reason.

The best thing about AH compared to other flight sims is quite simply that this Isn't those other games, no need to turn this game into them, that's why many of us are here in the first place.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Anaxogoras on December 17, 2007, 10:27:54 PM
Quote
I think if they made the auto ack any stronger it would result in more ack hugging.


Which is equivalent to complaining about people who grab too much altitude before the fight.:lol  There has to be some kind of safe zone for people to reasonably land and take off.  Obviously, don't do it from a capped airfield, we know that's dumb.  As it is now, the AAA does not provide such a zone against lone vultchers.

Quote
Just saying, it's all about perspective, and one's definition of balanced or optimized is nothing but an opinion.


If you really believe this then you have no grounds for telling me what you think.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: ROC on December 17, 2007, 10:32:51 PM
Before you go and get your panties in a wad, refer to your own words

Quote
Anyone else think this is a valid concern?


Don't ask for opinions and cry when they don't agree with yours.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Slash27 on December 17, 2007, 11:22:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Anaxogoras


If you really believe this then you have no grounds for telling me what you think.


Actually he does. Its friendly advice, dont be an bellybutton about it.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Marshal on December 17, 2007, 11:59:52 PM
The auto ack is much better then it used to be. Before the upgrade I was able to go into an airfield town and take down the hole thing in an osti. Now as soon as the ack gets a couple of shots on you it takes out your turret.
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: Anaxogoras on December 18, 2007, 01:50:36 AM
Quote
Don't ask for opinions and cry when they don't agree with yours.


This is merely rhetoric.  Nothing I've written can be called "crying."  You know that. ;)

All I've done is given some reasoned arguments against majority opinion to see if anyone might be persuaded.  If not, I'm ok with that.  I'm not offended, are you?

----------------------------

Ok, I can see why the statement "If you really believe this then you have no grounds for telling me what you think." ruffled some feathers.

Read it as a logical statement and you'll understand my meaning.:cool:
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: ColKLink on December 18, 2007, 07:11:29 AM
fish travel in schools for safety in #'s......
Title: AAA seems unworthy of respect
Post by: ROC on December 18, 2007, 09:36:27 AM
Quote
This is merely rhetoric.


Well, yes actually, it is :D

You haven't been here long enough to know that  my feathers weren't ruffled at all, simply tossing back a bit of rhetoric as you clearly can't be as ruffled about ack settings as your posts lead some to believe.  I mean, it's Ack for "crying" out loud, not like it's the most important element in the game, heck our scenarios tend to render ack worthless as again, we like to rely on ourselves to win or lose the event, not the computer.

As for reading your post as a logical statement, that's asking a bit much around here.  We aren't interested in logic so much as taking the arguments out to the many different conclusions to see if posters thought out all of the ways their ideas tie into or affect other avenues of the game.  All purely logical reactions by the way :D

All in good fun.