Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: WOOD1 on December 23, 2007, 08:05:57 PM

Title: More realism
Post by: WOOD1 on December 23, 2007, 08:05:57 PM
I'd like to see a more realistic arena, not so arcade like. Example, engines that overheat, guns that jam, bombs that are duds, friendly collisions (away from the base of course), dead reckoning navigation without your icon on the map. And no auto take off, no stall limiter, none of that crap. The list goes on....Just my two cents worth but I'd like to play a WWII flight sim that is more realistic, this is a fun game but not close to being realisitic.
Title: More realism
Post by: blkmgc on December 23, 2007, 08:10:02 PM
The problem with friendly collisions is warping and net oddities. This was tried before, maybe not here, but its been tried.
Title: More realism
Post by: WOOD1 on December 23, 2007, 08:14:51 PM
Ok, so no collisions, but I'd still like a more realistic sim.
AKwoodee
Title: Re: More realism
Post by: Motherland on December 23, 2007, 08:22:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WOOD1
And no auto take off, no stall limiter, none of that crap. The list goes on....

You realise you can turn that stuff off, right?
Title: Re: More realism
Post by: trigger2 on December 23, 2007, 08:34:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WOOD1
I'd like to see a more realistic arena, not so arcade like. Example, engines that overheat, guns that jam, bombs that are duds, friendly collisions (away from the base of course), dead reckoning navigation without your icon on the map. And no auto take off, no stall limiter, none of that crap. The list goes on....Just my two cents worth but I'd like to play a WWII flight sim that is more realistic, this is a fun game but not close to being realisitic.


I too would enjoy seeing RANDOM splotches of coding going over targeting about 3 pilots per country causing engines overheating or jamming guns, although, the dud bombs, I don't really like the idea much. Most buff drivers go for 1 specific building, and last I checked, a 1k bomb hurtling at a house at terminal velocity would be enough to smash it like a bug.

The Auto Take off and Stall Limiter, you can turn them off :]

And just a little F.Y.I. this is the most realistic WWII flight sim I've ever played...
Title: More realism
Post by: WOOD1 on December 23, 2007, 08:43:58 PM
I can drop 1 bomb on 1 building from 30k and hit it, that was impossible in WWII. There were many times where hundreds of bombers missed 1 target. I'm not knocking AH, I love this game, I would just like to see a more realistic arena. Not a whole game make over, 1 arena that has more realism.
Title: More realism
Post by: SuperDud on December 23, 2007, 10:02:38 PM
Yeah I'd love to fly 15mins(when I only have an hour to play) to a target just to find out my guns don't work:aok
Title: More realism
Post by: Gowan on December 23, 2007, 10:18:28 PM
[correct me if wrong]

guns normally jammed from long bursts of fire, in which the barrels would warp and then the round would get jammed...

i like the jamming part, would keep my bombers up longer
Title: More realism
Post by: Saxman on December 23, 2007, 11:11:09 PM
At least some jams were a charge failure, and the pilot could clear it by attempting to recharge the guns.

Regarding engine overheats:

Some simulators SERIOUSLY overdo the effects of engine temperature (Il-2 NEVER fixed the bug where the F4U engine overheats after about a minute at full power, even with cowl flaps open). Someone around here posted test data where radial and liquid-cooled engines were run continuously at WEP for several hours, and afterwards when the engines were disassembled there wasn't any major damage found.

As far as being able to pickle off a single 1k egg from 30k and hitting the target, the reason for this is that HTC DRASTICALLY simplified bombing because people complained about it being too hard.

The reason high-altitude bombers needed a whole formation to knock down a handful of buildings is because:

A) The bombsight wasn't as accurate as popular history makes it out.

B) Factors such as wind and drift would scatter ordinance off-target

C) Only the lead plane actually bombed from its site. The rest of the formation released when the leader released WITHOUT AIMING. If the lead plane miscalculated the drop, the entire formation would be off.

It had nothing to do with whether a bomb was a dud or not. They carpet-bombed strictly because it was easier to hit the target with a mass of bombs, rather than being pin-point accurate.

Now, none of these factors occur in the game. The bomb site, once calibrated, is laser-accurate. There's no wind or drift of bombs. And it's very rare to see a historical-type bombing raid with everyone dropping with the leader. Instead the mission may get TO target in formation, but then everyone spreads out and individually aims and drops their ordinance.
Title: More realism
Post by: Rino on December 24, 2007, 01:24:00 AM
I'd like to see Wood1's oxygen mask freeze up randomly at altitude...
causing him to miss from 30K with a single egg as he croaked from hypoxia. :D
Title: More realism
Post by: Tilt on December 24, 2007, 04:00:07 AM
I know HT has stated that it was not on the cards but I too would like an FR environment as an alternative 2nd LW MA.

Some stuff can be done with just arena settings and tweeks of existing options............

1) No auto take off
2) No auto climb, level or angle
3) Full calibration bomb sight.
4) Enemy counters only in radar range.
5) No F3 views
6) No anti stall.
7) Icons short


Plus some other tweeks that are not (IMO) earth shatteringly difficult.

8) No rearm pads (or at least make them destructable)
9) Engine damage on prolonged over heat.
10)Bombing from F6 only when in formations.

and some consideration for bigger changes
11) Perked ordinance
12) Zone limit.
Title: More realism
Post by: raider73 on December 24, 2007, 07:38:26 AM
Only reason we hit are targets at 30k is because we calibrate correctly, not getting shot at 90% of the time at 30k.Because unlike this game in WW2 the B17's, and B24's got jumped by BF109's,and 190's way before they got to their destination.
Title: More realism
Post by: Spikes on December 24, 2007, 08:09:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by raider73
Only reason we hit are targets at 30k is because we calibrate correctly, not getting shot at 90% of the time at 30k.Because unlike this game in WW2 the B17's, and B24's got jumped by BF109's,and 190's way before they got to their destination.


I think he was going more on the lines of wind factors.
Title: More realism
Post by: raider73 on December 24, 2007, 09:44:25 AM
O rgr thanks, yeah thats true the weather in AH2 is always o' so nice. But in WW2 could have winds of 20 mph up there.
Title: More realism
Post by: NHawk on December 24, 2007, 10:08:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by raider73
O rgr thanks, yeah thats true the weather in AH2 is always o' so nice. But in WW2 could have winds of 20 mph up there.
You're off a 0...

At at an altitude of 20,000 - 50,000 feet the winds can be up to 200mph. More typical is 100 to 150 mph. It's called a jet stream. :)
Title: More realism
Post by: raider73 on December 24, 2007, 11:19:04 AM
Ah rgr that sorry about that. Never been that high in real life.
Title: More realism
Post by: zoozoo on December 25, 2007, 05:48:59 PM
no
Title: More realism
Post by: raider73 on December 25, 2007, 05:52:42 PM
^SQUEAK!!
Title: More realism
Post by: Arlo on December 25, 2007, 06:04:58 PM
Someone's not happy. He knows when you are sleeping.
Title: More realism
Post by: Ni7suj on December 26, 2007, 12:25:32 PM
Why not just an extreme realism arena?
Title: More realism
Post by: SAS_KID on December 26, 2007, 02:37:40 PM
Thats what he wants...an extreme realism arena.
Title: More realism
Post by: stodd on December 26, 2007, 03:11:40 PM
no auto take offs? how will noobs ever get into the air?
Title: More realism
Post by: Rino on December 26, 2007, 04:09:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SAS_KID
Thats what he wants...an extreme realism arena.


Does that mean you have to light your hair on fire when you get shot
down? :D
Title: More realism
Post by: splitatom on December 26, 2007, 05:17:59 PM
it wouldnt be that bad if the guns jamed ocasionaly when you shot in long hoseings but randomly no it would teach the new guys how to aims:)
Title: More realism
Post by: Hien on December 26, 2007, 05:51:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
Does that mean you have to light your hair on fire when you get shot
down? :D


You mean the older pilots don't already do that?  Must be something else that makes them bald...  :p

I can deal with Engine Overheat, and friendly collisions, even dead reckoning.  Atleast on IL-2...  Not that big of a deal.  

Auto-Take off, I don't even use it until after I KNOW I can takeoff in the plane of my choice.  
Not having the option to use it wouldn't be that bad, though, I pity the fool without a twist stick or pedals.

Gun Jamming over long bursts wouldn't be that big of a problem to me... As long as 1-2 seconds isn't long... Because a jammed gun in a Yak-9U would be a problem.  D3A would um... lose alot of... killing abilty with jammed guns.  But I don't mind the challenge!  

One 7.6mm gun vs P-51 Engine, enough hits and I might still hit SOMETHING useful.

I say go for it on all but the Auto-Takeoff one...  Would be... hard... without proper equipment.
Title: More realism
Post by: NoBaddy on December 26, 2007, 06:41:22 PM
Sounds ok to me. When you die, there is a nice virtual funeral and your account is canceled. Then you go find another game that isn't REAL enough for yah. :D
Title: Re: More realism
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 27, 2007, 03:36:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WOOD1
I'd like to see a more realistic arena, not so arcade like. Example, engines that overheat, guns that jam, bombs that are duds, friendly collisions (away from the base of course), dead reckoning navigation without your icon on the map. And no auto take off, no stall limiter, none of that crap. The list goes on....Just my two cents worth but I'd like to play a WWII flight sim that is more realistic, this is a fun game but not close to being realisitic.


You have to balance out "realism" with game play.  After all this is still a subscription based game and those changes you want will not make this game easier for new players to come in and learn.

Players will spend more time fiddling with their plane instead of fighting, which is what this game is all about.  I think HTC has done a good job of keeping the balance.

However, you can still play with realism in mind.  The next time you get shot and die down, close out AH and cancel your account.  After all, in real life pilots only got one life.


ack-ack
Title: More realism
Post by: splitatom on December 27, 2007, 03:43:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
At least some jams were a charge failure, and the pilot could clear it by attempting to recharge the guns.

Regarding engine overheats:

Some simulators SERIOUSLY overdo the effects of engine temperature (Il-2 NEVER fixed the bug where the F4U engine overheats after about a minute at full power, even with cowl flaps open). Someone around here posted test data where radial and liquid-cooled engines were run continuously at WEP for several hours, and afterwards when the engines were disassembled there wasn't any major damage found.

As far as being able to pickle off a single 1k egg from 30k and hitting the target, the reason for this is that HTC DRASTICALLY simplified bombing because people complained about it being too hard.

The reason high-altitude bombers needed a whole formation to knock down a handful of buildings is because:

A) The bombsight wasn't as accurate as popular history makes it out.

B) Factors such as wind and drift would scatter ordinance off-target

C) Only the lead plane actually bombed from its site. The rest of the formation released when the leader released WITHOUT AIMING. If the lead plane miscalculated the drop, the entire formation would be off.

It had nothing to do with whether a bomb was a dud or not. They carpet-bombed strictly because it was easier to hit the target with a mass of bombs, rather than being pin-point accurate.

Now, none of these factors occur in the game. The bomb site, once calibrated, is laser-accurate. There's no wind or drift of bombs. And it's very rare to see a historical-type bombing raid with everyone dropping with the leader. Instead the mission may get TO target in formation, but then everyone spreads out and individually aims and drops their ordinance.

yes that was true but the norten bombsight could actualy put a bomb in a pickleberal from 10,000 if conditions were perfect and yes only the first bomber actualy amed they relesed at the same time:aok
Title: More realism
Post by: splitatom on December 27, 2007, 03:47:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NHawk
You're off a 0...

At at an altitude of 20,000 - 50,000 feet the winds can be up to 200mph. More typical is 100 to 150 mph. It's called a jet stream. :)
they actualy had winds of like 300 sometimes which ment that the b-29 on some days were going about 600 mph and somedays like about 16 mph thus is why we went to lightiing things on fire which required about no acuracy
Title: More realism
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 27, 2007, 06:06:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by splitatom
yes that was true but the norten bombsight could actualy put a bomb in a pickleberal from 10,000 if conditions were perfect



Myth.  


ack-ack
Title: More realism
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 27, 2007, 06:13:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by splitatom
they actualy had winds of like 300 sometimes which ment that the b-29 on some days were going about 600 mph and somedays like about 16 mph thus is why we went to lightiing things on fire which required about no acuracy


No, it is why we started low level bombing runs over Japan.  We compensated for the Jet Stream by flying lower during the bombing missions instead of at normal high altitude.

The fire bombings of Tokyo was purely to terrorize the civilian population and destroy light industry, 50% of which was located in populated areas.  The resulting fire bombing cut down their input by over half, destroyed 16 square miles of the city and killed over 100,000 civilians, many of them working at light industry factories in their neighborhood.


ack-ack
Title: More realism
Post by: Devonai on December 27, 2007, 06:50:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gowan
[correct me if wrong]

guns normally jammed from long bursts of fire, in which the barrels would warp and then the round would get jammed...

i like the jamming part, would keep my bombers up longer


Actually warping a MG/cannon barrel would require far more ammunition than any of our birds carry, and after much more sustained fire.  In real life the major cause of a jam involved the feeding mechanism.

I am against random weapons failures in this game as it would add a whole new level of whining from sore losers.
Title: More realism
Post by: aenigma on December 28, 2007, 04:34:26 AM
IF you want more realism like engine control, stalls, take offs, etc...then look into Targetware. Not for the faint of heart.
Title: More realism
Post by: Saxman on December 28, 2007, 07:30:42 AM
One thing I'd like to see is a MUCH more robust damage model.

IMO, that's one of only two places where Il-2 is undeniably superior to AH: Damage modeling, and the visuals.
Title: More realism
Post by: Krusty on December 28, 2007, 09:12:02 AM
TW is a joke.

Oh, and FYI: The jetsteam was only a problem over Japan. Over Europe it wasn't an issue. It's a gross exaggeration of the issue to simply state "at 20,000 feet you had 200-300mph winds" because most of the time it just wasn't true.