Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Druss on December 25, 2007, 10:53:34 PM
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http://apnews.excite.com/article/20071226/D8TOTLP80.html
No jokes from me on this thread guys.
Seems a tiger escaped from the San Francisco zoo and attacked three men. One was was killed and the other two in critical but stable condition. The zoo people don't know how long the tiger had been at large and the three men were attacked outside the zoo cafe.
WOW!:eek:
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It's sad that the tiger had to be killed for... well, for being a tiger. I suppose the victim will sue the zoo, since the zoo has an obligation to keep their dangerous critters safely locked up.
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Human sucks. Tiger get captured and caged for life....manage to
escape and then gets killed for escaping and attacking the humans
that captured it.
anyway
i have visitor and we plan to go there tomorrow
one dilemma 12 gauge shotgun or assault riffle as addition to my photographic gear......
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Originally posted by eagl
It's sad that the tiger had to be killed for... well, for being a tiger. I suppose the victim will sue the zoo, since the zoo has an obligation to keep their dangerous critters safely locked up.
It's sad that the tiger was killed, but it's not sad that the tiger killed someone?
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Originally posted by ramzey
Human sucks. Tiger get captured and caged for life....manage to
escape and then gets killed for escaping and attacking the humans
that captured it.
anyway
i have visitor and we plan to go there tomorrow
one dilemma 12 gauge shotgun or assault riffle as addition to my photographic gear......
Take both; one for you and one for your friend, :aok
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Originally posted by ramzey
Human sucks. Tiger get captured and caged for life....manage to
escape and then gets killed for escaping and attacking the humans
that captured it.
anyway
i have visitor and we plan to go there tomorrow
one dilemma 12 gauge shotgun or assault riffle as addition to my photographic gear......
Flashbang or pineapple would be more like it.
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If you try to flashbang a tiger, you deserve your fate.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
It's sad that the tiger was killed, but it's not sad that the tiger killed someone?
Did he say that?
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This is the second time that tiger escaped...... if the zoo gets sued.. so be it.
Those that keep wild animal should keep the animals in a safe place, safe for the animal itself and any humans in the vacinity.
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Originally posted by eagl
It's sad that the tiger had to be killed for... well, for being a tiger. I suppose the victim will sue the zoo, since the zoo has an obligation to keep their dangerous critters safely locked up.
A newscaster was quite shocked when she reported that once the Tiger got free, the very first thing that it did was to go HUNTING!!! And the only thing around that was meaty to bite were humans, unfortunately. These animals by instinct want to feed on living prey, and feeding them pieces of meat is really such an unnatural thing to do to them. That, plus being couped up in a little display area.
I don't think that the Tiger really wanted revenge on humans. It just wanted to be a predator, as God intended it to be.
The Siberian Tiger is the most endangered big predator in the whole world, and this one was a female, that could have reproduced. So it is indeed a sad loss.
Two police cars with 4 officers in them arrived at the scene very quickly. Once they were able to distract the Tiger and get if off its third victim, all four officers opened fire on the Tiger with their Glock 22 pistols chambered in the .40 S&W cartridge. It is not known at this time how many bullets were shot into the Tiger by the four policemen. Most likely, it was quite a few.
The man that died was 23, so on average, he should have expected to have lived at least another 53 years. A lawyer should thus be able to get a nice big settlement for his family, as the Zoo will need to replace all of the income that he could have earned during the rest of his life.
The two surviving men are 18 and 19, and they were both badly maimed in the head. Tigers often go for the head and neck of their prey. They will no doubt be badly scarred for life. They will probably be able to sue for a lot of money too.
The best thing for the city of San Francisco to do at this point is to close down the Zoo, and sell the land to real estate developers.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by SIG220
The best thing for the city of San Francisco to do at this point is to close down the Zoo, and sell the land to real estate developers.
SIG 220
WHAT??????????
Do you close highways and sell land cuz someone die on it?
They are closed today :( anyone know how is Oakland zoo compared to SF?
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Originally posted by ramzey
WHAT??????????
Do you close highways and sell land cuz someone die on it?
They are closed today :( anyone know how is Oakland zoo compared to SF?
He was probably only talking from the financial standpoint ~ since this particular cat attacked in the past & will now be the reason the zoo will be paying out some heavy cash to the families of those killed/injured.
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Tiger got only 1 kill/sortie and k/d sucs too.
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Originally posted by ramzey
WHAT??????????
Do you close highways and sell land cuz someone die on it?
They are closed today :( anyone know how is Oakland zoo compared to SF?
Oakland Zoo is ok as far as zoos go. Not quite as nice as the SF zoo, a little more cagey feeling.
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The fact that tigers are roaming the streets of San Francisco is CLEAR evidence that the liberal outrages of that city have reached a breaking point.
Case in point, there are now infinitely more tiger attacks in San Francisco than in moral cities like Provo, UT, Arlington, TX, and Oklahoma City, OK.
Somebody's calling with a message, folks. Who's going to be brave enough to pick up the phone?
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Originally posted by texasmom
He was probably only talking from the financial standpoint ~ since this particular cat attacked in the past & will now be the reason the zoo will be paying out some heavy cash to the families of those killed/injured.
If the zoo cannot be run better than this, then yes, it should be closed.
Last year the very same Tiger attacked a female zoo employee that was feeding the Tiger. Instead of biting on the meat the lady was placing in the cage, the Tiger instead bit off much of the flesh from one of her forearms. She survived, but is now partially disabled. The Zoo received a big fine over that incident.
The San Francisco zoo also has Polar Bears. What will happen if one of them gets free and runs wild among the guests??
SIG 220
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Originally posted by Chairboy
The fact that tigers are roaming the streets of San Francisco is CLEAR evidence that the liberal outrages of that city have reached a breaking point.
Case in point, there are now infinitely more tiger attacks in San Francisco than in moral cities like Provo, UT, Arlington, TX, and Oklahoma City, OK.
Somebody's calling with a message, folks. Who's going to be brave enough to pick up the phone?
On the whole, I that city is full of/run by lib wierdos. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the running of their zoo. I'm trying to figure out if you're serious in your post, or if you're being sarcastic & waiting for someone to pounce on that.
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Originally posted by SIG220
If the zoo cannot be run better than this, then yes, it should be closed.
Last year the very same Tiger attacked a female zoo employee that was feeding the Tiger. Instead of biting on the meat the lady was placing in the cage, the Tiger instead bit off much of the flesh from one of her forearms. She survived, but is now partially disabled. The Zoo received a big fine over that incident.
The San Francisco zoo also has Polar Bears. What will happen if one of them gets free and runs wild among the guests??
SIG 220
A change of management and stepping up of safety procedures could help that as well as closure would.
I don't mean to be callus, but when you put wild animals out for display, attacks are bound to happen ~ just a matter of when & to whom.
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Originally posted by texasmom
I don't mean to be callus, but when you put wild animals out for display, attacks are bound to happen ~ just a matter of when & to whom.
The latest report from the San Francisco Police Department now indicates that at least one of these young men apparently did all they could to provoke and taunt the Tiger. With a 15 ft wide moat, and a 20 ft high wall, though, no one thought that such a large Tiger could jump that high.
But the young men apparently aggravated the animal so much, that it somehow found the strength to get out. One report says that one of them provoked the animal, and then was attacked. Apparently he was the one who died. The other two, who managed to survive, tried to come to the aid of their friend, and were then attacked themselves. But this extra detail is all an unconfirmed report that was called in to a local radio station. The only thing that is official from the police is that they say that they do believe that the animal was provoked in the incident.
The 3 men involved are 19, 20, and 23 years old, according to the latest reports I've read. Perhaps the Zoo should require that no one under 25 be admitted in the future. Most researchers now believe that the human brain is not fully developed until age 25. And that younger people are thus inherently prone to doing stupid and dangerous things.
If it turns out that the animals were indeed provoked, then I doubt they will have any case to sue the Zoo. What an incredibly stupid thing to do: to make a 350 lb animal with huge sharp teeth and claws angry at you.
Here is this news report from the Fox TV station in the San Francisco Bay Area:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318365,00.html
SIG 220
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Originally posted by SIG220
The best thing for the city of San Francisco to do at this point is to close down the Zoo, and sell the land to real estate developers.
SIG 220
I disagree. Zoos, however controversial they may be, are often the only way most people will ever get a chance to see many beautiful and endangered species. This amounts to an increase in awareness of nature and how fragile certain species really are. I think the benefits to the world grossly outweigh the negatives to caging up wild animals. The zoo habitats keep getting better and better (in general) as well.
Think about it this way - why would someone who has never seen a bengal tiger really care if it goes extinct? Most city dwellers I know wouldn't care less about nature if they hadn't been presented with an up-close, personal experience like meeting a tiger face-to-fence-to-face. The city dwellers I know who have never been to a zoo are almost universally self absorbed, caring about little except how much they can squeeze out of the govt after the next election.
Zoos (and wild animal parks and even sea world) are important educational resources. We shouldn't close them because of single incidents like this, and we definately shouldn't close them, to the detriment of entire species, because we feel sorry for the animals in the cage. If you feel sorry for the caged critter, donate some money to the zoo so they can upgrade the zoo habitat. But don't demand they close the zoo, because that helps one creature and harms our society's awareness of entire ecosystems.
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Originally posted by SIG220
The latest report from the San Francisco Police Department now indicates that at least one of these young men apparently did all they could to provoke and taunt the Tiger. With a 15 ft wide moat, and a 20 ft high wall, though, no one thought that such a large Tiger could jump that high.
If that's true, then they deserved what they got. But still, the zoo had an obligation to keep the animals in their cages (habitats, whatever) so I would still expect the zoo to be held liable, even if the jury doesn't have much sympathy for the "victims".
If it's not true, then the news agencies who ran the story about this alleged behavior ought to be included in the lawsuit... It's not something that ought to be casually reported as "news" and the news stations need to be held accountable if they report ralse rumors about people as the truth.
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Originally posted by SIG220
The latest report from the San Francisco Police Department now indicates that at least one of these young men apparently did all they could to provoke and taunt the Tiger. With a 15 ft wide moat, and a 20 ft high wall, though, no one thought that such a large Tiger could jump that high.
SIG 220
http://bash.org/?628630:
I heard about this guy who broke into a lion's den at the zoo
and got mauled
and people were talking about how there should have been better defences put up to prevent people getting into the cage
a friend of mine suggested setting up some kind of deterrent
for example, putting some sort of fierce animal in the cage, which would attack anybody who climbed in
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With less than 5000 tigers in the wild, each and every captive tiger is extremely valuable. If theres ever a hope of keeping the tiger population from inbreeding (and causing birth defects and retardation), each and every tiger needs to be protected and preserved.
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I took this pic at the Boise Zoo a couple weeks ago:
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee27/Tahgut/Zoo040.jpg)
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I took this pic at the Boise Zoo a couple weeks ago:
Extraordinarily beautiful photograph and animals, Midnight.
My compliments to you on your photography.
TIGERESS
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They still have that scraggely lookin elk? Last time I went to that zoo in 94 they had about the skinniest, raggedest lookin elk I ever saw... In Idaho of all places...
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-----------------------WARNING---------------------------
people taunting the tiger may be killed and eaten.
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Originally posted by Airscrew
They still have that scraggely lookin elk? Last time I went to that zoo in 94 they had about the skinniest, raggedest lookin elk I ever saw... In Idaho of all places...
LOL.. all the good ones are on someones wall.
I didn't see an elk.
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I have now come to the conclusion that the press is totally useless in giving any accurate information at this point in time. Every time I read a new report, the ages of the victims change!! How could there be so much confusion going on?
It has now been determined that the kid who died was only 17 years old. That appears to be accurate, despite the fact that so many other ages had previously been quoted for him.
We will just have to wait for the police to do their investigation, and try to figure out what happened. What they do know, though, is that the Tiger did not get out via the door to the exhibit. The Tigress somehow found the strength to overcome obstacles that experts had thought to be impossible for any Tiger to defeat.
SIG 220
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Tigers have known for years that they could easily escape our puny enclosures. They've just been biding their time waiting for the signal to start the revolution. When this tiger's actions compromised the mission, she was quickly eradicated by the underground resistance.
BTW, the mainstream media is on their payroll, so don't expect any reliable information.
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It's true. Tigers have infiltrated every major institution of our society. Our zoos, our breakfast cereals, even golf.
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Maybe it was a Muslim Tiger. Jus sayin....
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Originally posted by SIG220
Two police cars with 4 officers in them arrived at the scene very quickly. Once they were able to distract the Tiger and get if off its third victim, all four officers opened fire on the Tiger with their Glock 22 pistols chambered in the .40 S&W cartridge. It is not known at this time how many bullets were shot into the Tiger by the four policemen. Most likely, it was quite a few.
SIG 220
I wouldnt bet on it. Though we may never know. I recently saw a county sheriff's deputy take 4-5 shots to kill a horse that was severly injured after being hit by an SUV. He couldnt hit a horse's head at about 5 feet. And its not coming after him. Just takin a WAG at it I'd guess that out of possible number of rounds fired (4 guns x8 rounds , 32 rounds? I dont know the capacity for the Glock) probably only 3 hit it... but I could be wrong.. Just my opinion..
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Originally posted by SIG220
I have now come to the conclusion that the press is totally useless in giving any accurate information at this point in time. Every time I read a new report, the ages of the victims change!! How could there be so much confusion going on?
SIG 220
You keep right on typing it here though... that's what you're good at Butch.
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should have let it clean up the streets and then rewarded the tiger with a 1 way ticket to Africa
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Someday a real rain^H^H^H^Htiger will come and wash^H^H^H^Heat all this scum off the streets.
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Originally posted by Eagler
should have let it clean up the streets and then rewarded the tiger with a 1 way ticket to Africa
...uh, ok, my man....But tigers don't come from Africa....
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Siberian Tiger, IF you can believe what has been posted on the news to date. I find it amusing that so much has been written here, quite a lot while the investigators were still on the scene, as if anyone on the board was even there and had a clue.
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A Tiger??!!! In San Fransisco????? (or Africa????)
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Wabbit thumbs through his well-worn "Book of General Rules to Live By"....ahh here it is. #3421....
"Don't F**K with Tigers!"
:rolleyes:
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Link to most current story as carried by my local news website. (http://www.ksdk.com/news/world/us_world_article.aspx?storyid=137409)
According to the San Francisco Chronicle, police found a shoe and blood in an area between the gate and the edge of the animal's 25- to 30-foot-wide moat, prompting the possibility that one of the victims dangled a leg or other body part over the edge of the moat.
One zoo official insisted the tiger did not get out through an open door and must have climbed or leaped out. But Jack Hanna, former director of the Columbus Zoo, said such a leap would be an unbelievable feat and "virtually impossible."
Instead, he speculated that visitors could have been fooling around and might have taunted the animal and perhaps even helped it get out by, say, putting a board in the moat.
So even Jack Hanna is "speculating." :eek: It truly has become everyone's favorite past time.
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why didn't someone just shoot the tiger?
Oh.. wait.. someone did..
Too bad there wasn't someone closer to shoot it tho.
lazs
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could this get any more news coverage?
The kids were probly teasing the tiger and then they got bit. Don't tease things that are bigger than you.
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My favorite coverage was one of the web news outlets showing a scary picture of a tiger and asking "Could this happen here?" in reference to whatever town they're based in.
I, for one, demand passage of the McCain-Schwarzenegger Tiger Defiance Act. The War on Tigers must be fought at home, in the streets, and oversees. We shall not rest until these clawed terrors are a danger no-more to our children.
If you see suspicious tiger-related activity, report it at once! Things to look out for:
1. Tiger tracks in the snow near schools
2. People buying bags of cat food
3. 'Lost pet' signs on telephone poles (they may be eating our pets!)
4. Frosted Flakes
5. Striped dogs with long tails that emit fierce roars instead of barking. These may not be dogs!
Protect your loved ones, duct tape your houses against unwanted feline incursions!
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The current story:
SAN FRANCISCO - The director of the zoo where a teenager was killed by an escaped Siberian tiger acknowledged Thursday that the wall around the animal's enclosure was 12 1/2 feet — well below the height recommended by the main accrediting agency for the nation's zoos.
ADVERTISEMENT
According to the Association of Zoos & Aquariums, the minimum recommended height for tiger exhibit walls is 16.4 feet.
San Francisco Zoo Director Manuel A. Mollinedo said safety inspectors had examined the wall and never raised red flags about its size.
"When the AZA came out and inspected our zoo three years ago, they never noted that as a deficiency," Mollinedo said. "Obviously now that something's happened, we're going to be revisiting the actual height."
On Wednesday, Mollinedo said that the wall was 18 feet high, and that the moat around the tiger's pen was 20 feet wide. On Thursday, Mollinedo said the moat was 33 feet wide.
Investigators have yet to say how the 300-pound tiger got out of the pen. But based on the initial estimates of the height of the wall, animal experts expressed disbelief that a tiger in captivity could make such a spectatular leap.
The accrediting association did not immediately return calls for comment Thursday about the height of the wall.
smells like lawsuit in the future if the wall was too short.
honestly, I wouldn't trust a "wall" after seeing this anyway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FWjxN-vcts&feature=related
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Originally posted by JB73
honestly, I wouldn't trust a "wall" after seeing this anyway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FWjxN-vcts&feature=related
so is that how you go "Tiger fishing" I wonder what he thought he was going to do with that stick...
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Originally posted by Maverick
I find it amusing that so much has been written here, quite a lot while the investigators were still on the scene, as if anyone on the board was even there and had a clue.
Whaaaa??? O'club posters are offering opinions on topics they know nothing about? Before all the facts are in?
And that amuses you?
You ain't from around here are you.
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Originally posted by Maverick
I find it amusing that so much has been written here, quite a lot while the investigators were still on the scene, as if anyone on the board was even there and had a clue.
what??? are you kidding, I have all kinds of qualifications.
I've been to several zoo's, Boise, San Antonio, Frankfurt Zoo, Saarbrücken Zoo, Neunkirchen Zoo, Tierpark Hellabrunn in MÜNCHEN and several pet stores. They all have one thing in common, kids tease the animals because they think its funny...
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The local news had an interview with the zoologist who was responsible for the design criteria for tiger pens. He said that there should be no way for a tiger to get out unless it had help. One of the reports said that it "appears" that the kid who was killed had been dangling his foot into the cage and the tiger grabbed on to his leg and used him to climb out. If this is true that must have been a terrible way to go...
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Don't mess with tigers, they WILL let loose on you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7RqkPy0lBQ&feature=related
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tigers need to be perked.
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Sorry roger, you tiger now
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Originally posted by Airscrew
what??? are you kidding, I have all kinds of qualifications.
I've been to several zoo's, Boise, San Antonio, Frankfurt Zoo, Saarbrücken Zoo, Neunkirchen Zoo, Tierpark Hellabrunn in MÜNCHEN and several pet stores. They all have one thing in common, kids tease the animals because they think its funny...
whats really funny is that will qualify you as an "expert" on the news:lol
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Should of had a Firefly sitting close by.......
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Originally posted by midnight Target
You keep right on typing it here though... that's what you're good at Butch.
I've comment before in other threads about how engaging in name calling is a sign of a lack of maturity.
Just keep it up, and you will show people exactly the type of person that you are.
SIG 220
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More info is being documented. I have family in the San Francisco Bay Area, and they have been updating me, as this is a top story there.
It turns out that the wall surrounding the exhibit was substandard. Initial press reports said that it was 20 ft tall, and then later ones said that it was 15 ft tall.
Well, it now turns out that the wall is really only 12 ft and 4 inches tall, well below the recommended minimum standard for such an animal exhibit. The Zoo's director has publicly now admitted that this was the actual height of the wall.
Here is a news story outlining this development:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/us/28tiger.html?ref=us
A lot is being said now about the two surviving men: brothers aged 19 and 23: Amritpal and Kulbir Dhaliwal. The father of their dead friend actually called them on their cell phone after the attack, before the father learned of his son's death. He was very worried about this son, as he had not shown up for the family's Christmas Dinner that evening.
The father reports that the brothers told him that they had not seen his son that day, wished him a Merry Christmas, and then hung up the phone. The dead boy's father is dumbfounded as to how the young men could have been so extremely cruel to him, and deny that they knew nothing about this son.
The San Francisco Police department has also stated that both Amritpal and Kulbir already have criminal charges currently pending against them, from a recent incident where they were chasing two other men down the street. The brothers resisted arrest, and were extremely hostile to the officers, cursing them repeatedly. They were also both drunk, and were also charged with public intoxication.
The brothers and their family have retained an attorney, and are refusing to make any further statements without first consulting with their attorney.
So it would seem that these two young men are not exactly what one would consider to be "model" citizens.
Here is a link to this development:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/27/MN7RU5I8P.DTL
SIG 220
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poor tiger.
I think the SF police shot the wrong party involved.
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Just heard on the news this morning that the body of a 190 lb. tiger was found in Dallas on the same day this happened.
They believed it to be someone`s pet.
Wasn`t much more detailed than that.
Sort of sounds like someone snuffed a tiger before the tiger had a chance to snuff someone else. :)
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The jackholes taunted the tiger.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22719922/
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poke a tiger with a stick
then try to run
really quick
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and the Darwin award goes to...
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the police should have shot the person who was in charge of the zoo.
He allowed people to see a tiger who could get loose and eat em.
lazs
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The buttnuggetts in question are changing their story...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323714,00.html
Admit to having been high on weed and one was twice the legal limit on alcohol....and...
...yes...were taunting the tiger.
68ROX
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Originally posted by 68ROX
...yes...were taunting the tiger.
68ROX
So now it is mandatory in all zoos in USA to have a sign with "don't taunt the tiger"?
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Originally posted by Russian
So now it is mandatory in all zoos in USA to have a sign with "don't taunt the tiger"?
Yes...
Because in the Era of "We have absolutely no phreeking common sense" you even have to put "CAUTION: This coffee is HOT" on the cup.
68ROX
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I say
Mr. Tiger.
Just a hungry cat. It's a shame he couldn't eat all of the "courses" of his meal before he was rudely interrupted!
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Originally posted by 68ROX
Yes...
Because in the Era of "We have absolutely no phreeking common sense" you even have to put "CAUTION: This coffee is HOT" on the cup.
68ROX
Remember this is San Francisco we are talking about here. Not only are they lacking in common sence, but the concept of personal responsability does not exist in that town.
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It doesn't matter to me that they were "taunting" the tiger.
the real point is that the containment was not good enough to keep in a tiger who wanted out... It not only put the morons in danger but every person in the zoo at the time.
lazs
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Originally posted by Russian
So now it is mandatory in all zoos in USA to have a sign with "don't taunt the tiger"?
No, it's mandatory that all zoos in the USA be constructed such that animals cannot escape their exhibit and get into the visitor area.
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exactly..
lazs
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Originally posted by myelo
No, it's mandatory that all zoos in the USA be constructed such that animals cannot escape their exhibit and get into the visitor area.
The local TV news interviewed the zoologist from the Minnesota Zoo who was responsible for writing the standards for tiger cages. According to him the older pens were built under older guidelines and newer pens follow a new stricter standard.
He expressed doubts that a tiger should be able to get out of the pen without help. In the same piece it was stated that the kid may have actually had his legs in the cage and the tiger may have latched onto him and used him to climb out. What a way to go...
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read this, http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?t=3758 :eek: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
read this, http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?t=3758 :eek: :rolleyes:
OF COURSE! I hadn't realized that the tiger, the zoo AND the news were ALL biased against people of mid-eastern descent... hardly worth the bytes to respond to that.
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Originally posted by myelo
No, it's mandatory that all zoos in the USA be constructed such that animals cannot escape their exhibit and get into the visitor area.
But the specifications for building the exhibit aren't mandatory and are just recommendations. The exhibit in the SF Zoo was four feet lower than the recommended minimum for the wall enclosure. That's a major problem, it shouldn't be a recommendation but a requirement.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by clerick
OF COURSE! I hadn't realized that the tiger, the zoo AND the news were ALL biased against people of mid-eastern descent... hardly worth the bytes to respond to that.
Someone should posts and say whether or not someone is of Middle-Eastern, Jewish, Christian or of any other race or religion, they all taste like chicken to a tiger.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
But the specifications for building the exhibit aren't mandatory and are just recommendations. The exhibit in the SF Zoo was four feet lower than the recommended minimum for the wall enclosure. That's a major problem, it shouldn't be a recommendation but a requirement.
ack-ack
Had they not pelted the friggin Tiger to begin with, it is highly unlikely the friggin Tiger would have jumped out. Those POS punks got what they deserved. Too bad the Tiger didn't kill them all.
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Originally posted by clerick
OF COURSE! I hadn't realized that the tiger, the zoo AND the news were ALL biased against people of mid-eastern descent... hardly worth the bytes to respond to that.
Bengal Tigers prefer Hindu and Muslim.
Siberians are partial to Chinese / Mongolian fare.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Bengal Tigers prefer Hindu and Muslim.
Siberians are partial to Chinese / Mongolian fare.
...and White Tigers like homosexuals.
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So why wasn't it a white tiger in the SF zoo?
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Had they not pelted the friggin Tiger to begin with, it is highly unlikely the friggin Tiger would have jumped out. Those POS punks got what they deserved. Too bad the Tiger didn't kill them all.
Bodhi.
It really does not matter what kind of faces they made at the tiger, its kinda the responsibility of the zoo to keep the animals contained.
I dont care if you pump the cat full of meth. you have to build the enclosure in a way that keeps him in. :)
shamus
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Had they not pelted the friggin Tiger to begin with, it is highly unlikely the friggin Tiger would have jumped out. Those POS punks got what they deserved. Too bad the Tiger didn't kill them all.
I agree that those kids reaped what they sowed but had the recommended specifications had been a requirement instead, the tiger would still be alive.
ack-ack
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What do you think happens if you annoy a huge arse kitty? :furious
(http://www.geocities.com/invictusdomini/insert_brain.gif)
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bohdi.. I don't care if the tiger eats the right people... that is not the point. the cage was wrong and it could have been one of yours that got eaten.
The cage was built in such a way that a tiger could get out and get to the people.. the tiger had to be killed because of it. If my grand daughter had been killed because of it then the next person to die would be the one running the zoo.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
bohdi.. I don't care if the tiger eats the right people... that is not the point. the cage was wrong and it could have been one of yours that got eaten.
The cage was built in such a way that a tiger could get out and get to the people.. the tiger had to be killed because of it. If my grand daughter had been killed because of it then the next person to die would be the one running the zoo.
lazs
Lazs, How long had the Tiger been in there? I disagree entirely, as it would not have stayed in the cage if it new it could get out. My bet is that it is exactly like someone else already mentioned, one of the idiots was hanging his feet into the cage while pelting the Tiger with the sling shot. Tiger becomes an unhappy kitty and jumps up and gets a hold of idiots legs. Friends try to help him, unhappy kitty climbs up and out. Dead idiot and unfortunately not dead group of idiots.
Blame the idiots, not the zoo.
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bohdi.. if your daughter had been standing next to the idiots and they got away but she got killed..
You might think that cages that are capable of containing big cats were a good idea.
he never did before? who cares? he did then.. he might have next week if he had a toothache. Blame doesn't save anyone.. solutions do.
If the cage would have been up to standard.. no one.. including the tiger.. would have died... it is just that simple... nothing else matters in the case.
kids will tease animals at zoos.. any zoo that thinks this is not a possiblilty is negligent.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
bohdi.. if your daughter had been standing next to the idiots and they got away but she got killed..
You might think that cages that are capable of containing big cats were a good idea.
he never did before? who cares? he did then.. he might have next week if he had a toothache. Blame doesn't save anyone.. solutions do.
If the cage would have been up to standard.. no one.. including the tiger.. would have died... it is just that simple... nothing else matters in the case.
kids will tease animals at zoos.. any zoo that thinks this is not a possiblilty is negligent.
lazs
Funny thing is there is no "escape proof" enclosure. Ask a zoologist next time you are there. I guess you never wondered why most zoos are surrounded by 30 foot high walls...it's a last line of enclosure.
Generally, if an animal wants out... it will get out.
Also, with most zoological gardens, purchase of admittance generally is the signed agreement that the visitor assumes some risk, though that risk is generally assumed to be minor.
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that is probly as stupid a thing as I have heard you say and you have said some beaut's.
Of course none is escape proof but higher and better standards exist. They were not in use.
You can build a cage that is 20% effective in containing a tiger or one that is 99% effective.. neither is escape proof in the strictest sense but...
which do you think shows the most intelligent design and the least liability if the tiger escapes?
Put a top on the cages that critters that leap are kept in. Higher walls.. whatever.. make it so that the best tiger in the world on his best days can't simply jump over the damn thing.
After that.. don't let the tigers have blow torches or hacksaws and you should be ok.
lazs
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lazs, there is a difference between making faces and noises at an animal and pelting it with a sling shot. My point that the Tiger stayed in the cage up until that point has a lot of merit.
How exactly did the Tiger get out? It seems that the facts are pointing to it having an aid in making the leap. Was it the guys legs? That Tiger had some help in getting out.
As for saying make the walls bigger. Hell, why not form a government agency to help ensure all zoo enclosures are "safe". You can guarantee a shut down of atleast half nationwide for some BS reason or other.
The bottom line issue here is this:
That Tiger would not have been able to get out had it not been for some punk arse POS's that were hell bent on antagonizing a caged animal.
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no.. the bottom line is that if my grand daughter is at the zoo and some kid shoots a lion or tiger with a slingshot.. and he gets mad and jumps out and kills her..
then it matters not why the tiger got out but how.
I do not want to depend on the tigers good nature or mood to keep it from eating the customers.
lazs
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Lazs, the Tiger would not have gotten out without aid or support. It seems one of the POS idiots' legs provided that aid or support.
Generally during the day, people are disuaged from climbing on cages and such.
Either way, if you want to defend the idiots and condemn the zoo, have at it. This is not worth continuing bud.
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I agree with Lazs on this one.
Although the idiots are the ones that provoked the tiger, it is the group responsible for the zoo to ensure that a dangerous animal not be able to escape on its own under any circumstances.
Prediction: It will be proven that the idiots instigated the attack, but the zoo will be held liable for not having an enclosure up to standards. The supposed fact that the height of the wall has been misrepresented by zoo officials in the past will haunt them legally in this case. The zoo is legally liable for its animals. People being plain stupid is nothing new. We've always had idiots and always will.
Bodhi, Pick the one person you love the most. Now imagine the tiger killing that person because of some idiot's actions in provoking the tiger. You wouldn't be taking legal action against the zoo for negligence?
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I would be going after the ones that provoked the tiger if they were still alive.
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Originally posted by lazs2
if my grand daughter is at the zoo and
when you start to think with your emotions and not your brain you will not always arrive at the best solution.
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Originally posted by john9001
when you start to think with your emotions and not your brain you will not always arrive at the best solution.
The single smartest thing john has ever posted.
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Lazs is right... No matter how badly the tiger was provoked, it should still not have been able to get out.
The fact that the dead and injured guys were taunting the animal is relevant only in that it makes many (most? all?) of us not feel very sorry for them, while opening up the potential for the retards to be held partially liable which could reduce how much the zoo will have to pay out when the lawsuit is settled. In some states, liability judgements are awarded based in part on percentage of liability. So if the "victims" are found to be 20% liable (for example), then the lawsuit payout would be modified downward to account for the shared liability.
None of that changes the fact that the tiger should not have been able to get out however. It just opens up the retards to countersuits from the zoo for circumventing safety measures by climbing over barriers surrounding the tiger pen. And of course the retards *should* IMHO be found guilty and liable of circumventing those safety measures if they are proven to have gone over the fence for any reason.
For that matter, even if the tiger hadn't gotten out, the zoo should have been able to go after the retards for going over the fence. A lifetime ban from the zoo would have been the very least I'd expect to see happen.
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john.. my grand daughter was not at the zoo.. I think with my brain and my brain tells me that somebody can't even use theirs to outsmart a frigging stupid tiger and keep him in the cage.
We have a reasonable right to expect that the cages are capable of keeping in the tiger..
Now.. where the "emotion" thing comes in is if my grand daughter actually was killed...
Then I will only use my brain so far as it takes to get my hands on the guy running the zoo. This may or may not "solve" anything but one thing for sure...
the moron will never again be in charge of a zoo that can't keep dangerous animals out of the visitors area.
do you get it now?
lazs
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Cant believe that i actually agree with lazz.
The specs of the cage was under specs. We cant trust an animal to know that it is not suppose to get out. If that was the case we might as well just remove the cage entirely, and keep the animals well fed in hopes that they don't get hungry and eat someone.
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ahhh.. but tigers are noble and brilliant beasts.. they are nature... we are the problem.. it is mans fault.
In this case I agree.. it is mans fault for being to stupid and lazy and dishonest and by not building a cage that worked. it would be simple to do.. they didn't do it cause they didn't give a damn.
now people are dead..
lazs
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This topic is done. What we should be discussing is: Would the zoos be safer if they gave the monkeys assault rifles or lever action rifles?
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Too many folks thrive on weakening this country by spending our money and resources protecting the stupid. Let nature take its course.
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Originally posted by lazs2
john.. my grand daughter was not at the zoo.. I think with my brain and my brain tells me that somebody can't even use theirs to outsmart a frigging stupid tiger and keep him in the cage.
We have a reasonable right to expect that the cages are capable of keeping in the tiger..
Now.. where the "emotion" thing comes in is if my grand daughter actually was killed...
Then I will only use my brain so far as it takes to get my hands on the guy running the zoo. This may or may not "solve" anything but one thing for sure...
the moron will never again be in charge of a zoo that can't keep dangerous animals out of the visitors area.
do you get it now?
lazs
You serious? Why would you go after the guy running the zoo? Why not go after the kids that helped the tiger escape? Or the parents that raised these kids. Or God. Or yourself for not being there with a gun? Lots of things in life could have prevented this.
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Originally posted by lazs2
If my grand daughter had been killed because of it then the next person to die would be the one running the zoo.
lazs
But then you would live in prison for the rest of your life. Far better to just sue the zoo, and live out the rest of your life in luxury.
Vigilante justice went out of style by the end of the 19th century. Even my great grandfather did not kill the doctor who murdered his daughter ( my grandaunt ) in 1892 at age 5.
He simply gave the doctor 24 hours to leave town, and sure enough, he was gone by the next day, never to be seen again. One could never get away with threatening someone like that today. But it was a small California farming town of less than 3,000 people back then.
Instead, if that had happened now, the doctor would most likely have faced criminal prosecution, besides being liable for malpractice. There were so many witnesses that saw him drinking at the bar all night just hours before the operation the next morning, that it would have been an open and shut case. My great grandfather was reported to be absolutely furious when he learned of this. Bleeding to death from a botched tonsillectomy was a rather tragic way for my grandaunt to die. It left my grandfather being an only child.
I sure hope that the doctor operating on me next week is not alcoholic. :O That would really, really suck, if he is. :eek: :eek:
SIG 220
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Originally posted by SIG220
Vigilante justice went out of style by the end of the 19th century. Even my great grandfather did not kill the doctor who murdered his daughter ( my grandaunt ) in 1892 at age 5.
He simply gave the doctor 24 hours to leave town, and sure enough, he was gone by the next day, never to be seen again. One could never get away with threatening someone like that today. But it was a small California farming town of less than 3,000 people back then.
And that young doctor, who would have died at the hands of an angry man in California, fled for his life back to the midwest, where along with his father and brother practiced medicine in Rochester Minnesota, later expanding the practice and saving countless lives, founding the Mayo Clinic.
And now you know the rest of the story.
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From what I've read of the actual events, the young men were drunk and doped up. They climbed to the top of the metal fence, which had sufficed to keep the tiger safely confined in the past, and straddled it...all the while taunting 500 pounds of the deadliest feline predator and pelting it with refuse.
The tiger leaped up, grabbed a set of dangling legs, and pulled its way up and over the enclosure.
And the slaughter began.
We can argue about the need to build a better, higher fence until the cows come home, but the truth remains that no zoo enclosure can be made idiot proof.
Perhaps it would help to electrify the fence...that would keep the predators AND the apes off of it.
I don't like zoos anyway. The animals in them always seem to be lethargic and miserable.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
And that young doctor, who would have died at the hands of an angry man in California, fled for his life back to the midwest, where along with his father and brother practiced medicine in Rochester Minnesota, later expanding the practice and saving countless lives, founding the Mayo Clinic.
And now you know the rest of the story.
According to our family history, the town was happy to see him go. But then my family's account may be biased.
Doctors are just as human as everyone else, and some of them are scumbags. Did you see the news report that ABC's 20/20 investigative show did Friday night on medical malpractice taking place on Cruise ships?
Tell me, would you like to fly on an airliner that had a drunk pilot at the controls??
SIG 220
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The only way I am going to buy that it was the kids fault that the tiger got out is if they went and opened the gate. you can't stop that... you shouldn't hand out keys tho or make it accesable to people.
So now it is the excuse that the kids somehow got their legs through the cage and up high enough that the tiger was able to use em for traction. this is really getting lame...
A tiger cage that kids can stick their legs through? Were these guys part monkey in order to get high enough up the cage? is it only a foot or two in cage hight that they use as a safety measure?
sig.. or.. your grandpaw let the good doctor go where he went on to kill another 400 people before he died of a drug overdose.
Sorry... everyone who had a hand in building and maintaining that cage would have to die. Probly do it by throwing them in one of the cages. They wouldn't be killing anyone else and I will take my chance with a jury.
lazs
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Actually Lasz, they are part monkey....far better able to climb the metal bars of a zoo fence than is a tiger, whose claws are good for only climbing large trees and killing prey.
Some accounts quoted on the news state that the young men had climbed to the top of the fence. I didn't make that up. A taller fence might have saved them, but as stupid drunk and doped up as they were, there's no guaranteeing that they wouldn't have tumbled into the enclosure.
Bottom line, they'd still be alive if they hadn't been competing for a Darwin Award.
Sure, the fence could have been built taller, but as good Republicans, we should also believe in personal responsibility.
Regards, Shuckins
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shukins.. you are missing my point.. if they manage to climb up over and fall in and get eaten.. I have no problem with that except.. they really shouldn't be able to without a lot of effort... but...
If they have easy access and they can climb up even when loaded and drunk and then.. the tiger is able to use that for getting over the fence and killing the poor slobs there with their families... then someone is not running a safe zoo.
Someone is lazy and incompetent. why are other zoos better designed?
If you are running a zoo you damn well know the answer to that one. And.. you ignored it.
If someone comes in with ladders and blow torches and cuts the bars and lets out the animals.. well.. that is not the fault of the zoo not building proper cages.
If a tiger gets teased and then jumps over the fence or through it... that is the fault of the zoo for not building proper cages.
lazs