Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: texasmom on December 26, 2007, 01:01:22 AM

Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: texasmom on December 26, 2007, 01:01:22 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4022502&page=1
Wow ~ I'm totally amazed that shock treatments are used to control the behavior of kids. Wow ~ that doesn't sound at all like it's appropriate.
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Tac on December 26, 2007, 01:08:09 AM
the irony of it..

"It is the only school in the United States that utilizes electric shock therapy, which is administered through a device called a graduated electronic decelerator, or a GED"


isnt that what the high school diploma is called? geez.
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: rpm on December 26, 2007, 01:16:42 AM
Brilliant!
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Arlo on December 26, 2007, 01:34:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Tac
the irony of it..

"It is the only school in the United States that utilizes electric shock therapy, which is administered through a device called a graduated electronic decelerator, or a GED"


isnt that what the high school diploma is called? geez.


Nope. A high school diploma is called a diploma.

The G.E.D. is a test. "General Education Development" test, to be precise. It certifies that one has high school-level academic skills
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Rolex on December 26, 2007, 02:52:03 AM
Here's a link to an informative talk about the efficacy of electro-shock therapy.

link>> (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/189)

While you're at the site, help yourself to the buffet of interesting people and topics discussed. A great site and program. ;)
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Angus on December 26, 2007, 03:55:00 AM
Cuckoo's nest....
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: GoldenP51 on December 26, 2007, 04:34:06 AM
Quote
On Aug. 26, someone posing as a supervisor called in shock treatments on two students, aged 16 and 19. The teens were awakened in the middle of the night and given the shock treatments.



That is kinda a rude awakening...dreaming of sheep jumping over fences and that sorta thing and then they wake u up pull u outta bed and  ZAAAAAAAP
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: texasmom on December 26, 2007, 08:49:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Here's a link to an informative talk about the efficacy of electro-shock therapy.

link>> (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/189)

While you're at the site, help yourself to the buffet of interesting people and topics discussed. A great site and program. ;)


You're right, the sight was pretty interesting.  The story was pretty interesting too.  

In the instance talked about in the original article, it is being used as punishment (with oversight by school administrators) ~ not as a tool of use in advancing children out of depression (with oversight by a doctor).

If it was decided that electro-shock therapy was appropriate for these kids, why would that treatment be administered by school staff instead of doctors?
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Stang on December 26, 2007, 12:35:08 PM
If our squeakers in AH are anywhere near representative to the population of kids as a whole, I say get to shocking...
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: lazs2 on December 26, 2007, 02:28:15 PM
that's what I am trying to figure out... school is no place for medical treatment.

lazs
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Tigeress on December 26, 2007, 04:04:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
that's what I am trying to figure out... school is no place for medical treatment.

lazs


Don't they know tasers are cheaper?

Seems a lot of authoritarians are going for zapping people into submission these days.

This is the first I have heard of it being used by authoritarians other than the police and perhaps prison guards.

Being in my line of work, I have been zapped a few times and in one case it felt like a full force hammer blow to my little finger... I accidently shorted out two terminals live with microwave frequency power and it vaporized two neat holes out of the side of my finger. My entire arm ached.

I would not want to see people zapped for the convienence of someone wishing to gain effortlessly obtained cooperation in a non-lethal tussle with the law and certianly not to punish mentally disturbed children for acting out.

Shoot, I dont even like hearing about shock collars for dogs.

TIGERESS
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Leslie on December 26, 2007, 04:26:35 PM
Did a little reading and apparently the shock treatment is not like the kind used to treat depression which passes electric current through the brain.  The treatment in question here involves wearing a backpack with electrodes attached to the torso, arms and legs.  The shock is remote controlled and lasts about two seconds...tingles like a bee sting.

Proponents of this treatment say it is effective and causes no harm.  I've heard there are some games out there which deliver a similar shock.  This is not a medical procedure.  Not like Cuckoo's Nest at all.



Les
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Tigeress on December 26, 2007, 05:07:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
Did a little reading and apparently the shock treatment is not like the kind used to treat depression which passes electric current through the brain.  The treatment in question here involves wearing a backpack with electrodes attached to the torso, arms and legs.  The shock is remote controlled and lasts about two seconds...tingles like a bee sting.

Proponents of this treatment say it is effective and causes no harm.  I've heard there are some games out there which deliver a similar shock.  This is not a medical procedure.  Not like Cuckoo's Nest at all.



Les


mmmm... then prehaps the device can be used on proponents of shock punishment to harmlessly intice them to stop doing it? :rofl

One of those kids was shocked 77 times in one session.
The voltage has got to be pretty high to break down the multi-megohm skin resistance in order to create current flow.

I refuse to sleep under an electric blanket; not because I fear getting shocked, rather ionizing 60Hz radiation from the blanket in close proximity with the body for repeated long periods of time is suspected of causing cancer... same with cell phones held close to the head.

The higher the frequency, the higher the power, the closer to the source, and the longer one is ionized, the higher the likehood of cancer is thought to be.

When current flows through the body, your atoms are ionized as long as current flows.

Just say no to shock punishment.

TIGERESS
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: john9001 on December 26, 2007, 05:13:05 PM
breaking news......it has been reported that bee stings do not "tingle" they hurt.
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: texasmom on December 26, 2007, 06:29:52 PM
So the convulsions are limited to the brain instead of the entire body because of the new 'advancements.'  How is that an advantage?  That just means the administrators don't have to strap 'em down to keep them from flailing & flopping about.

I've got a whole bunch of little boys ~ one with several physical/mental disabilities ~ and each one a real pain in the neck at their own choice on more than one occassion.   I'm trying to picture the parents (who are required to authorize the 'treatment') and the children themselves (who must also authorize the 'treatment') as actually agreeing to this.  I'm not understanding how you get to a point where you create brain convulsions as punishment.

So if these kids are so disabled or so mentally down & out that they're dangerous, how does that put them in a viable position to give their own consent to this? I mean... I can't even really wrap my mind around it at all.

Is there absolutely not a better way possible than that? I find that hard to believe that the answer is no.

*edit*
Leslie, I skimmed through the earlier posts, but just saw what you wrote that it's not the kind that sends currents through the brain. I'll go back & read some other stuff about this kind of shock treatment. Right now I'm still kinda picturing CIA-style strap em down & torture them kind of shock treatment.
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: texasmom on December 26, 2007, 06:39:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
breaking news......it has been reported that bee stings do not "tingle" they hurt.

Yeah, that don't tingle ~ it hurts.
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: lambo31 on December 26, 2007, 06:54:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
Did a little reading and apparently the shock treatment is not like the kind used to treat depression which passes electric current through the brain.  The treatment in question here involves wearing a backpack with electrodes attached to the torso, arms and legs.  The shock is remote controlled and lasts about two seconds...tingles like a bee sting.

Proponents of this treatment say it is effective and causes no harm.  I've heard there are some games out there which deliver a similar shock.  This is not a medical procedure.  Not like Cuckoo's Nest at all.



Les


I can't see any good that would come from holding a bee to my kids arm and letting it sting them.


Lambo
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Leslie on December 27, 2007, 12:09:30 AM
Oh I agree Lambo.  I stepped on a bumblebee when I was a kid and it felt like a hot coal.  From then on I was careful walking around barefooted.  May have even saved me from stepping on more harmful things like nails in boards and the like as I grew up.

I didn't say I was a proponent of shocking troublesome kids.  I think some of you thought it was electro convulsive shock, and that is not what the article was talking about.  I'm not a psychologist and have only read about some subjects which deal with psychology.

I really shouldn't have commented at all, seeing as how I don't know enough about it.  I am probably naive, but the ones doing it say it works and is effective.  I think they are psychologists.  

I would have to wear the backpack and get shocked by it to have an informed opinion how badly it hurts.  If someone here has worn the backpack in question and says it hurts then I will believe them.  I do not doubt those who administer these treatments have tried it out on themselves.  I suspect it would hurt (it was used as punishment,) but I read in the article that games employ the same or similar shocks.   Perhaps someone here can offer information about this? Some kind of tank game or something?

It is just hard to believe this school for autistic children is hurting these kids, and I would like to believe it is not so.   It would truly be bad if they were.

I do not agree with the practice of waking children up to punish them.  I can think of nothing more cruel and ineffective.  It is obvious the powers that be at that school are idiots.  They acted on a prank call and didn't verify the source.  I believe most of us here would agree that could be stated as fact.




Les
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: lazs2 on December 27, 2007, 08:05:01 AM
well.. this is perhaps a solution to the whole waterboarding thing...

We can simply give prisoners "shock therapy" till they talk.

Torture is torture.   Schools have no right administering medical procedures if this is indeed a medical procedure.   If it is not a medical procedure then it is simply torture.

lazs
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Leslie on December 27, 2007, 11:04:43 AM
Yes I agree with you Lazs that it is torture.  The more I read about the Rotenberg Center, the worse it looks.


Les
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Arlo on December 27, 2007, 07:58:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well.. this is perhaps a solution to the whole waterboarding thing...

We can simply give prisoners "shock therapy" till they talk.

Torture is torture.   Schools have no right administering medical procedures if this is indeed a medical procedure.   If it is not a medical procedure then it is simply torture.

lazs


I'm not gonna say anything smarmy about how much we agree on this, Laz.

:)
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: lazs2 on December 28, 2007, 08:48:20 AM
good... I couldn't take that.

lazs
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Tigeress on December 28, 2007, 09:00:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
good... I couldn't take that.

lazs


I'm gonna say it for you two!

Arlo and Lazs agree!!! Yea!!!
:rofl

TIGERESS

(http://www.digi-hound.com/wp/img_wp3/wp_fireworks_l.jpg)
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Xargos on December 28, 2007, 12:35:47 PM
(http://content7.flixster.com/photo/31/86/33/3186337_gal.jpg)
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: texasmom on December 28, 2007, 12:44:01 PM
(Just means that regardless of how much you disagree on... well.... everything... that you're still both good & decent folks)
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Tigeress on December 28, 2007, 01:14:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
(Just means that regardless of how much you disagree on... well.... everything... that you're still both good & decent folks)

Amen to that TxMom and that goes for just about everyone.

Also, your sig line says a lot: You have enemies? Good. That mean's you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Sir Winston Churchill

I may strongly disagree with someone but I try very hard not to hurt them or wage personal attacks on them or wish them ill.
These two boys enjoy their verbal combat with each other and it is obvious to me they respect each other. It gives me no end of enjoyment to watch them go at it! ;)

There is a woman I have been friends with for years... both of us dated the same guy and thus started talking at a party.

She is a self-identified Socialist and she and I are very much of different political views. We don't discuss politics and instead talk kids, men, food, etc.

TIGERESS
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: crockett on December 28, 2007, 01:21:59 PM
There are a few people here in the O Club that I'd love to try GED on.

:t
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: lazs2 on December 28, 2007, 02:39:28 PM
crock-it... you and what army?

oh wait.. you are a socialist...

nevermind.


and for 88... I do not believe that governments should torture..  it is simply a bad precident.

On a personal note tho.. if I needed to know something bad enough... if it was to save one of mine..  I would do what I have to do.. it would be ugly and effective.   I would make peace with my concience later.

as val kilmer as doc holliday said in "tombstone"   "my hypocrisy knows no bounds."

lazs
Title: electro-shock treatment of kids by school
Post by: Airscrew on December 28, 2007, 02:56:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
(Just means that regardless of how much you disagree on... well.... everything... that you're still both good & decent folks)

Or it could mean, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while...