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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Major Biggles on January 01, 2008, 09:20:28 PM

Title: question for HT
Post by: Major Biggles on January 01, 2008, 09:20:28 PM
i was wondering this the other day... is ground effect modelled in AH?
Title: Re: question for HT
Post by: splitatom on January 01, 2008, 09:23:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Major Biggles
i was wondering this the other day... is ground effect modelled in AH?

hu what does that mean:huh :huh
Title: question for HT
Post by: moot on January 01, 2008, 09:36:58 PM
It is.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Yeager on January 01, 2008, 10:54:06 PM
fly close to the ground and find out :rolleyes:
Title: question for HT
Post by: Golfer on January 01, 2008, 11:08:07 PM
I'm not sure to the extent but I have verified that the ground has a negative effect on airplanes in the game.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Major Biggles on January 01, 2008, 11:32:50 PM
lol golfer.


yeager, there's some rise if you turn autopilot on really low down, but i'm not entirely sure if it's truly modelled and what affect it has on flight characteristics. would be interesting to hear.
Title: question for HT
Post by: moot on January 02, 2008, 02:58:57 AM
This was in AH1, but Pyro said back then that you gain some speed from flying close enough to the ground.  I suppose it's something like the vacuum effect in racing cars.
IIRC it's effect starts around 1/3 of the wingspan's length above the ground.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Gixer on January 02, 2008, 03:02:32 AM
Suppose to be increased lift near ground level. No none modeled and if it is I don't know what level as it's nothing like real world flying.

Then again I'd really need a helicopter to test it properly as that's my only experience with real world flying... :D


...-Gixer
Title: question for HT
Post by: Adonai on January 02, 2008, 03:45:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
I'm not sure to the extent but I have verified that the ground has a negative effect on airplanes in the game.


HAHAHAHAHA tree's have even better model effect, they stop 56 ton tiger tanks.

Same for sheep! didnt know sheep were so buff :(
Title: question for HT
Post by: chase4 on January 02, 2008, 04:24:06 AM
Quote
didnt know sheep were so buff
lol just ask the welsh :noid som scary stuff goes down in the mountains :confused:
Title: question for HT
Post by: Adonai on January 02, 2008, 04:27:02 AM
kinda like in kentucky in usa, scary stuff goes on their hills (DELIVERANCE)

or was that georgia?

*EDIT Beware of banjos!
Title: question for HT
Post by: uptown on January 02, 2008, 04:30:58 AM
has anyone else noticed that every post from adonai has mention of sheep? :eek:
Title: question for HT
Post by: Xargos on January 02, 2008, 04:37:22 AM
(http://www.colinthesheep.co.uk/Colin_Assets/Colin.gif)
Title: question for HT
Post by: Gianlupo on January 02, 2008, 04:52:11 AM
Ground effect is a reduction in induced drag that causes the airplane to accelerate faster. It is due to the fact that, given the proximity of ground, the wingtip vortexes responsible for induced drag are disrupted and so is that kind of drag: hence the plane accelerates faster. IIRC, it should happen until a height of about 1 wingspan from the ground.

Biggles, IIRC it is modeled in AH2.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Adonai on January 02, 2008, 04:55:34 AM
Xargos!! That photo of your gal?
Title: question for HT
Post by: kilz on January 02, 2008, 06:33:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Adonai
HAHAHAHAHA tree's have even better model effect, they stop 56 ton tiger tanks.

Same for sheep! didnt know sheep were so buff :(



they got buff cause they are tired of you just taking it when they say no
Title: question for HT
Post by: Ghosth on January 02, 2008, 07:37:19 AM
It used to be a lot more noticable, but yes I'm sure its still modeled.
Title: question for HT
Post by: rabbidrabbit on January 02, 2008, 09:05:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Adonai
Xargos!! That photo of your gal?


No, him.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Krusty on January 02, 2008, 10:03:03 AM
It used to be WAAAY overmodeled. You could NOT hold level flight low to the ground (i.e. NOE)... Just trying to do it, you would drift back up to a certain height. Made landings a b---- sometimes, too :P

Then it got revamped into what we have now, much better (IMO). It's definitely coded.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Major Biggles on January 02, 2008, 10:50:43 AM
gian, induced drag is decreased yes, but it also results in a lot more lift because the shockwaves in the air bounce off the wings into the ground causing a kind of compression effect. the plane effectively sits on a cushion of air like a hovercraft.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Golfer on January 02, 2008, 10:51:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Major Biggles
gian, induced drag is decreased yes, but it also results in a lot more lift because the shockwaves in the air bounce off the wings into the ground causing a kind of compression effect. the plane effectively sits on a cushion of air like a hovercraft.



No
Title: question for HT
Post by: Overlag on January 02, 2008, 10:54:24 AM
there is, landing lancs for instance, the stall horn stops when u get close to touch down cos the air from the flaps is hitting the ground....
Title: question for HT
Post by: BaldEagl on January 02, 2008, 11:07:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Adonai
HAHAHAHAHA tree's have even better model effect, they stop 56 ton tiger tanks.

Same for sheep! didnt know sheep were so buff :(


That's because they modeled... The violence of the lambs.
Title: question for HT
Post by: P47Gra on January 02, 2008, 11:15:44 AM
Doesnt matter if it is modeled.  I still bounce any and all airplanes from the spit to the 24s in AH and from a 172 to a King Air in RL.  If you ever grease one on the ground and never feel it two things are wrong.  First, you were very low on approach speeed and you were trying to feel your way to the ground.  Second, you were showing off to the other pilot or the people on the ground and that aint good.  I teach my students to flying it to the ground at first then we learn some techniques that will help them improve.

JUGMAN

Plus bouncy JUGs are always fun to play with!
Title: question for HT
Post by: DarkglamJG52 on January 02, 2008, 11:42:35 AM
Ground effect modelled until 2000fts for La 7s.
Title: question for HT
Post by: PanosGR on January 02, 2008, 11:43:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Major Biggles
gian, induced drag is decreased yes, but it also results in a lot more lift because the shockwaves in the air bounce off the wings into the ground causing a kind of compression effect. the plane effectively sits on a cushion of air like a hovercraft.


The best way to exploit the so called Ground effect is by these planes called Ekranoplans.

(http://[IMG]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/Orlyonok.jpg)[/IMG]

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/orl2.jpg)

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/orl1.jpg)


(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/orlenok1.jpg)

this specific Ekranoplan is the Orlionok
Title: question for HT
Post by: Golfer on January 02, 2008, 11:47:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by P47Gra
Doesnt matter if it is modeled.  I still bounce any and all airplanes from the spit to the 24s in AH and from a 172 to a King Air in RL.  If you ever grease one on the ground and never feel it two things are wrong.  First, you were very low on approach speeed and you were trying to feel your way to the ground.  Second, you were showing off to the other pilot or the people on the ground and that aint good.  I teach my students to flying it to the ground at first then we learn some techniques that will help them improve.

JUGMAN

Plus bouncy JUGs are always fun to play with!


Just about the only thing in that statement I agree with regards bouncing jugs.:aok

Having a smooth landing and capturing the elusive greaser demon doesn't mean you did anything wrong.  If you (the proverbial "you" not you specifically) need to float halfway down the runway just to squeak out a golf clap landing then I'll be there with a few bandaids for the ego the day you have a tail strike.  You can make smooth landings consistantly but every so often the earth makes you mad and needs a good smacking.
Title: question for HT
Post by: BaldEagl on January 02, 2008, 12:06:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by PanosGR
The best way to exploit the so called Ground effect is by these planes called Ekranoplans.

this specific Ekranoplan is the Orlionok


I guess you've got to hope there's no BIG waves huh?
Title: question for HT
Post by: Gianlupo on January 02, 2008, 01:18:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Major Biggles
gian, induced drag is decreased yes, but it also results in a lot more lift because the shockwaves in the air bounce off the wings into the ground causing a kind of compression effect. the plane effectively sits on a cushion of air like a hovercraft.


Golfer gave you the short answer, you can find a longer one here:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0130.shtml

No air cushion at all. ;)
Title: question for HT
Post by: P47Gra on January 02, 2008, 02:26:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
Just about the only thing in that statement I agree with regards bouncing jugs.:aok

Having a smooth landing and capturing the elusive greaser demon doesn't mean you did anything wrong.  If you (the proverbial "you" not you specifically) need to float halfway down the runway just to squeak out a golf clap landing then I'll be there with a few bandaids for the ego the day you have a tail strike.  You can make smooth landings consistantly but every so often the earth makes you mad and needs a good smacking.


Flying halfway down the field to grease a landing is great for those landing on a 10k runway, but where I fly we have 800 to 1200 to get it down and stopped.  Most of the time we have crosswinds to contend with which complicates things.  Getting it down and stopped when doing either crosswind landing technique is complicated by winds and length of runway.  Normally I would agree with your assessments.  There is a time and place for possessing the greaser.  

Always vigilant JUGMAN
Title: question for HT
Post by: Major Biggles on January 02, 2008, 05:45:34 PM
yeah gian, i didn't really mean cushion, just expressed myself poorly.

what i was trying to say is that things like the ground effect vehicles in that article can't fly normally, they can only fly in the ground effect because of the compression and increased lift.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Major Biggles on January 02, 2008, 05:49:02 PM
also, these ground effect vehicles are exeptionally stable because when a wing drops, more lift is created by that wing as it experiences the effect to a greater degree.

i wonder if that's modelled in ah? drop a wing very low to the ground and the ground effect creates so much lift that it's a lot easier to recover from...
Title: question for HT
Post by: Overlag on January 02, 2008, 06:36:50 PM
i not sure its that detailed... i think its more likely to do with prop wash thats causing alittle more lift near the ground, not wing tip vortex's

(in game that is)
Title: question for HT
Post by: SirLoin on January 03, 2008, 10:05:49 AM
Too bad plane drafting isn't modeled(like in car racing)...Fly close & behind something large & ugly like a friendly P38 and yer spit5 can keep pace.
Title: question for HT
Post by: Overlag on January 03, 2008, 10:20:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
Too bad plane drafting isn't modeled(like in car racing)...Fly close & behind something large & ugly like a friendly P38 and yer spit5 can keep pace.


i dont think that works with planes..... lol