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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on January 02, 2008, 10:03:34 AM

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: wrag on January 02, 2008, 10:03:34 AM

Sheriff Joe Is At It Again


Maricopa County was spending approx. $18 million dollars a year on stray animals, like cats and dogs. Sheriff Joe offered to take the department over, and the County Supervisors said okay.
The animal shelters are now all staffed and operated by prisoners. They feed and care for the strays. Every animal in his care is taken out and walked twice daily. He now has prisoners who are experts in animal nutrition and behavior. They give great classes for anyone who'd like to adopt an animal. He has literally taken stray dogs off the street, given them to the care of prisoners, and had them placed in dog shows.
The best part? His budget for the entire department is now under $3 million.
Teresa and I adopted a Weimaraner from a Maricopa County shelter two years ago. He was neutered, and current on all shots, in great health, and even had a microchip inserted the day we got him. Cost us $78.
The prisoners get the benefit of about $0.28 an hour for working, but most would work for free, just to be out of their cells for the day. Most of his budget is for utilities, building maintenance, etc. He pays the prisoners out of the fees collected for adopted animals.
I have long wondered when the rest of the country would take a look at the way he runs the jail system, and copy some of his ideas. He has a huge farm, donated to the county years ago, where inmates can work, and they grow most of their own fresh vegetables and food, doing all the work and harvesting by hand. He has a pretty good sized hog farm, which provides meat, and fertilizer. It fertilizes the Christmas tree nursery, where prisoners work, and you can buy a living Christmas tree for $6 - $8 for the Holidays, and plant it later. We have six trees in our yard from the Prison.
Yup, he was reelected last year with 83% of the vote.
Now he's in trouble with the ACLU again. He painted all his buses and vehicles with a mural, that has a special hotline phone number painted on it, where you can call and report suspected illegal aliens. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement wasn't doing enough in his eyes, so he had 40 deputies trained specifically for enforcing immigration laws, started up his hotline, and bought 4 new buses just for hauling folks back to the border. He's kind of a "Git-R Dun" kind of Sheriff.

Update on Joe Arpaio

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO

HE IS THE MARICOPA ARIZONA COUNTY SHERIFF

AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER
THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY:
Sheriff Joe Arpaio
(In Arizona)
who created the
"Tent City Jail":
He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights Cut off all but "G" movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.

Then He Started
Chain Gangs For Women
So He Wouldn't Get
Sued For
Discrimination.

He took away cable TV Until he found out there was A Federal Court Order
that Required Cable TV For Jails
So He Hooked Up The Cable TV Again Only Let In The Disney Channel And The Weather Channel.

When asked why the weather channel
He Replied,
So They Will Know
How Hot It's Gonna Be
While They Are Working
ON My Chain Gangs.

He Cut Off Coffee
Since It Has
Zero Nutritional Value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, "This Isn't The Ritz/Carlton If You Don't Like It,
Don't Come Back."

He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.


More On The Arizona Sheriff:

With Temperatures Being Even Hotter
Than Usual In Phoenix
(116 Degrees Just Set A New Record),
the Associated Press Reports:
About 2,000 Inmates Living In A Barbed-Wire-Surrounded Tent Encampment
At The
Maricopa County Jail Have Been Given Permission To Strip Down To Their Government-Issued
Pink Boxer Shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached
138 Degrees
Inside The Week Before.

Many Were Also Swathed In Wet, Pink Towels As Sweat Collected On Their Chests And Dripped Down To Their PINK SOCKS.

"It Feels Like We Are In A Furnace,"
Said James Zanzot,
An Inmate Who Has Lived In The TENTS for 1 year.
"It's Inhumane."

Joe Arpaio,
the tough-guy sheriff
who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic
He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 Degrees In Iraq And
Our Soldiers Are Living In Tents Too,
And They Have To
Wear Full Battle Gear,
But
They Didn't Commit Any Crimes,
So Shut Your Damned Mouths!"

Way To Go, Sheriff!
Maybe if all prisons were like this one
there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders.
Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 02, 2008, 10:06:53 AM

Go, Joe!

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Russian on January 02, 2008, 10:28:08 AM

WTG! ...

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: uberhun on January 02, 2008, 10:35:08 AM

President Joe!:aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: DiabloTX on January 02, 2008, 11:16:08 AM

As it should be.

:aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 02, 2008, 11:36:08 AM

It works for me. I recall that Joe was taken to task by some of the prisoners in his jail for the conditions. His response was to tell them to go get arrested in some other jurisdiction if they didn't like it there.

I like his attitude and policies. It's a jail, not a country club. Don't like it? Don't get arrested and in the mean time STFU.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: lazs2 on January 02, 2008, 02:32:06 PM

soo... what jail was that again where the prisoners don't *****?

lazs

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Reschke on January 02, 2008, 03:40:10 PM

They can ***** all they want to it isn't going to do them any good.

Title: Scum
Post by: moot on January 02, 2008, 04:09:33 PM

So now Arpajo is a good guy ?  You guys don't know the whole story...

Quote

He's kind of a "Git-R Dun" kind of Sheriff.

Like personaly watching two of his goons suffocate some high school football jock that happened to pass through one of his prisons.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 02, 2008, 04:11:16 PM

i'd lol a bit at joe if a prisoner dies of heat stroke and sheriff joe gets his pants sued off...but thats just my dark/ironic humor side.  wonder if any numbers show if his treatment is reducing repeat offenders or preventing crime?  would be interesting to see, I sure as hell wouldn't want to go back to that a second time.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Chairboy on January 02, 2008, 04:15:52 PM

I like what I hear so far, I'd like to know more.  It would be interesting to see what the post-jail record is like for his inmates versus others.  A focus on rehabilitation (which it sounds like his work programs could provide) without coddling could pay good in the long term.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 02, 2008, 04:23:24 PM

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio)

Some feel that Sheriff Arpaio's actions are based less on a desire to serve the public and to lower crime, but on demagoguery and grandstanding that hurt the public welfare. Amnesty International issued a report critical of the treatment of inmates in Maricopa County facilities[7].

Criticism has resulted due to lawsuits filed against the sheriff’s office by family members of inmates who died in jail custody and in highspeed pursuits involving deputies. The lawsuits have cost Maricopa County more than $13.7 million in settlement claims. By mid-year 2007 more than $50 million in claims had been filed against the sheriffs office and Maricopa County.


so with all his savings he's running up a mighty high lawsuit settlement bill :confused:

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 02, 2008, 04:43:30 PM

That was combined jail ops and the pursuits. Claims are not necessarily payouts, just claims. You can sue for a million and collect nothing.

Title: Git-R-Done
Post by: John Curnutte on January 02, 2008, 05:24:35 PM

Sherrif Joe is doing what needs to be done why reward criminals with luxury items , having grown up in Phoenix and being a former sherrifs Posse  team member of Maricopa County I'm all for this guy . Nice Post Wrag !!!
 As Always A Nutte:aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: LePaul on January 02, 2008, 06:04:00 PM

That's a great idea...having them work the humane society.  Its a win/win.  They get out of their cell and they can serve the community.

Way to go, Joe.  Prison is prison, not a free ride with creature comforts.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Fishu on January 02, 2008, 07:40:30 PM

"Norberg’s parents filed a lawsuit against Joe Arpaio and his office. The lawsuit was settled for $8.25 million (USD) following a highly contentious legal battle. Despite vowing to never settle, the case quickly closed after it was disclosed the Sheriff's office had destroyed key evidence in the case."

Interesting that he preaches so highly against the criminals and likes to put small-timers in jail, but then goes to destroy evidence in a case of manslaughter.

Why does he stand for the guards who allegedly have mistreated prisoners? They've broken the law and you got to be tough on crime.

I wouldn't vote for a man who doesn't follow the principles he preaches to the others.

The more I read about him the more his psychological profile appears to be a psychopath.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 02, 2008, 08:03:08 PM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
So now Arpajo is a good guy ?  You guys don't know the whole story...
Like personaly watching two of his goons suffocate some high school football jock that happened to pass through one of his prisons.

Dont do anything to end up in jail and you wont be placed at risk of this kind of thing happening

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio)

Some feel that Sheriff Arpaio's actions are based less on a desire to serve the public and to lower crime, but on demagoguery and grandstanding that hurt the public welfare. Amnesty International issued a report critical of the treatment of inmates in Maricopa County facilities[7].

Criticism has resulted due to lawsuits filed against the sheriff’s office by family members of inmates who died in jail custody and in highspeed pursuits involving deputies. The lawsuits have cost Maricopa County more than $13.7 million in settlement claims. By mid-year 2007 more than $50 million in claims had been filed against the sheriffs office and Maricopa County.


so with all his savings he's running up a mighty high lawsuit settlement bill :confused:

And "Amnesty International "
Has legal jurisdiction over exactly what again?

Nothing more then professional complainers

Again. Dont do anything that might land you in prison and you dont have to worry about being mistreated while your there.

Like the song goes.
dont dot he crime if you cant do the time.

No pity party for prisoners here.
Im still in favor of places like devils island and prisoners being forced to make little rocks out of big rocks by haand.

Title: Re: Scum
Post by: SteveBailey on January 02, 2008, 08:08:24 PM

Quote

Originally posted by moot

Like personaly watching two of his goons suffocate some high school football jock that happened to pass through one of his prisons.

Link? Or are you just a propagandist?


Here's your football jock:

Norberg was arrested for chasing two young girls in Mesa. Reportedly high on methamphetamine, he was accused of attacking the jail Detention Officers who were trying to restrain him. In the subsequent struggle and restraint he died.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: moot on January 02, 2008, 08:47:09 PM

"Accused".  
And I've seen Arpajo myself, and seen him be good buddies with scumbags equal to himself..  I know an ******* reading on my ******* meter when I see it.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 02, 2008, 09:35:57 PM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
"Accused".  
 

Except the part where meth was found in his urine.  Your "football jock" was a meth addict. I don't mind if you disagree with me but at least have the integrity to be honest.



Tell ya what, if you don't like the way the inmates are treated, feel free to foot the bill for their cable TV and prime rib.  Me, I'd like to think that inmates will try to clean up their acts because staying in jail is a miserable experience.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Toad on January 02, 2008, 10:03:13 PM

So was the guy picked up on while already on meth and dead before it wore off? Or was he in the slammer, got some meth while incarcerated and then died?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: AquaShrimp on January 02, 2008, 10:13:11 PM

That is a great idea by Sheriff Joe.  The only problem I could forsee is that the jail turnover rate would be very high (due to prisoners being released), requiring constant training of the prisoners in animal care.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: REP0MAN on January 02, 2008, 10:21:46 PM

Steve, do we even get into his illegal immigration policies? :lol

You nancy's that are complaining about a tough Sheriff, well, stay out of his jail and you wont have to worry about it. Joe saves the county millions of dollars and is able to spend some of that savings equipping his patrol force with up to date equipment that helps them do their job effectively and safely. Well done Joe!

I love this......
"With Temperatures Being Even Hotter
Than Usual In Phoenix
(116 Degrees Just Set A New Record)."

I'm a native of this valley. This year was certainly not any hotter than normal. I recall many 118 days and vividly recall the infamous 122 day. Don't like the heat? Don't commit a crime.

(http://media.bonnint.net/az/2/281/28121.jpg)

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: moot on January 02, 2008, 11:09:25 PM

I'm not complaining about his dealing with scum criminals.. Takes one to know and know how to deal with one.  I'm not complaining about anything but the law being broken by none other than the sheriff himself...
He broke the law when he killed that kid.  It's no excuse that you're Sheriff Arpajo if you're killing people without following due process.. That meth addict wasn't "my" football jockey. I'm not siding with either what he did nor what those prisoners are getting from Arpajo.  
I just know what I've heard from nearly everyone in Phx, and have seen myself. We can talk in this forum and call Giuliani and co. for the two face crooks they are, but not call this rotten sheriff for what he is?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Fishu on January 03, 2008, 12:02:13 AM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
I'm not complaining about his dealing with scum criminals.. Takes one to know and know how to deal with one.  I'm not complaining about anything but the law being broken by none other than the sheriff himself...
He broke the law when he killed that kid.  It's no excuse that you're Sheriff Arpajo if you're killing people without following due process..

Not to forget that destroying evidence is a felony.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 12:53:43 AM

Quote

Originally posted by moot

He broke the law when he killed that kid.  

Pssst he wasn't even in the building.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 12:55:08 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
"Norberg’s parents filed a lawsuit against Joe Arpaio and his office. The lawsuit was settled for $8.25 million (USD) following a highly contentious legal battle. Despite vowing to never settle, the case quickly closed after it was disclosed the Sheriff's office had destroyed key evidence in the case."

 

dude, you got this from Wikipedia.  Maybe in Candyland that is considered a reliable source, here in the real world we know it to be a lot of bias and fluff.

Edit:  it contains the same regurgiated propaganda from several other anti-Joe websites.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: moot on January 03, 2008, 12:58:00 AM

Ok Steve, you know this how?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 12:59:43 AM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
Ok Steve, you know this how?

Verbatim

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Chairboy on January 03, 2008, 01:00:42 AM

It's common to attack the source when you don't like what it's reporting.  But to mollify him, find a second source.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: moot on January 03, 2008, 01:06:53 AM

He told you so in person?  That's not worth anything, you know it :)

Anyway, that's just the cherry on top of the cake.  I don't remember the specifics, but he had a lot of other dirt on his hands.  I remember it being on par with Bill Clinton's closet skeletons.

I've no idea what you mean Chairboy.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 01:06:56 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
It's common to attack the source when you don't like what it's reporting.  But to mollify him, find a second source.

The sources all quote the same tripe... word for word.

Now, let's get something clear first: I think the restraint chairs can be dangerous.  More than one person has died in them. These chairs were in use before Arpaio ever came to town.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 01:08:25 AM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
He told you so in person?  That's not worth anything, you know it :)

 

huh?  all I said was that he quoted Wiki, Verbatim.   Verbatim does not mean "in person"

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: moot on January 03, 2008, 01:09:03 AM

The kid didn't die in the chair.  He died from trying to free himself of the grasp of one or two goons right in Arpajo's presence.  His head was forced forward and down so that his airway was shut.
The chair was a convienient alibi.

edit- ok so what did you mean by verbatim?  Verbatim means word for word.  What words are you refering to?  Wikipedia is no guarantee, you probably know that by now.
Edit2 - So you were answering my question of how you are sure Arpajo wasn't even in the building when it happened with a reference to Fishu's verbatim repeat of wikipedia, which doesn't answer my question.
How are you sure he wasn't there?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 01:11:05 AM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
The kid didn't die in the chair.  He died from trying to free himself of the grasp of one or two goons right in Arpajo's presence.  His head was forced forward and down so that his airway was shut.
The chair was a convienient alibi.

Arpaio was not there. Have you seen the video?  I have.

And yes, he dies right in the chair.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: moot on January 03, 2008, 01:12:20 AM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Arpaio was not there. Have you seen the video?  I have.

And yes, he dies right in the chair.

Then we aren't talking about the same kid.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 01:13:35 AM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
Then we aren't talking about the same kid.

Could be :)

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 01:15:46 AM

Norberg died in the chair but they removed hom from the chair and tried to resusitate him.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: rpm on January 03, 2008, 01:33:01 AM

Either way, you play "Cowboy Sheriff" grandstanding for the media long enough and you will eventually screw the pooch. I have no problem with most of his tactics, but is there any stats or reports showing it has lowered crime or repeat offenders?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 01:38:03 AM

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
Either way, you play "Cowboy Sheriff" grandstanding for the media long enough and you will eventually screw the pooch. I have no problem with most of his tactics, but is there any stats or reports showing it has lowered crime or repeat offenders?

Ahhh good question RPM. I'm tired... I'll do a little research tomorrow.
I have seen anecdotal interviews on local news from inmates who swear they will go straight because they do not want to return to tent city.. I don't remember if hard stats were discussed though.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 02:11:40 AM

Shelby, what do you think of Joe?


(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/shelbypumpkin.jpg)

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 05:24:41 AM

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
but is there any stats or reports showing it has lowered crime or repeat offenders?

Return to prison/jail rate
------------------------------------------------------
National 52%
Arizona 41%
Maricopa County 60%
Maricopa DUI repeat offenders 40%




2000 2006 change
------------------------------------------------------
Felony filings: 26,317 29,662 +12.7%


source: The Maricopa County Attorney's Office

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Tango on January 03, 2008, 08:36:22 AM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
The kid didn't die in the chair.  He died from trying to free himself of the grasp of one or two goons right in Arpajo's presence.  His head was forced forward and down so that his airway was shut.
The chair was a convienient alibi.

So why was the kid struggling? IF he had stopped then he might still be alive.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: indy007 on January 03, 2008, 08:53:02 AM

Well if he's up to $50 million in lawsuits against the county so far, with almost $13m rewarded... Looks like just a matter of time before Joe's methods become more expensive than the prime rib.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Fishu on January 03, 2008, 09:11:16 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Tango
So why was the kid struggling? IF he had stopped then he might still be alive.

Let's block your airway and see if you struggle.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Chairboy on January 03, 2008, 09:49:12 AM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn

Return to prison/jail rate
------------------------------------------------------
National 52%
Arizona 41%
Maricopa County 60%
Maricopa DUI repeat offenders 40%

source: The Maricopa County Attorney's Office

[/B]

Hang on...  so, if I'm reading this right, Maricopa County has a higher recidivism rate than both the state and national average?  What was this figure before the sheriff, I wonder?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2008, 09:55:35 AM

Keep something in mind before relying on stats regarding the jail.

County jails have 2 functions, holding folks for arraignment / trial both misdemeanor and felony and holding those who have been sentenced to jail for misdemeanors. Unless you separate felony prisoner stats from the misdemeanors you can't draw a conclusion regarding recidivism and the jail conditions / Joe's tactics.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Chairboy on January 03, 2008, 10:02:30 AM

Fair enough.  I'd be interested in seeing figures that _do_ take that into account.  If his tactics reduce recidivism, then the data should indicate it, and other jails should take note.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 03, 2008, 10:02:42 AM

I was reading another article mentioning how his goonies broke a parapalegics neck further disabiling him and were seen having a good laugh about it on the video.  thats messed up.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2008, 10:08:01 AM

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
I was reading another article mentioning how his goonies broke a parapalegics neck further disabiling him and were seen having a good laugh about it on the video.  thats messed up.

Link?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 03, 2008, 10:14:12 AM

ask and you shall receive

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1997-01-23/news/jailers-show-a-paraplegic-who-s-boss/1

he was put in the "chair" for being too vocal of his need to urinate, he needed a catheter.  instead he gets strapped into a chair and they break his neck.

theres being tough on crime and crimals and then theres inhumane.

thanks for finding those stats, looks like joe isn't keeping crime from getting any worse, go figure

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2008, 10:19:42 AM

Do you have something other than a tabloid?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 10:20:24 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Tango
So why was the kid struggling? IF he had stopped then he might still be alive.

That's a tough question.  some might read this as if you are saying:  If you struggle, you deserve a death sentence.

Who knows what that kid did off camera? I suspect he was resisting to some affect or he wouldn't have attracted so much guard attention.  Additionally, Norberg had assaulted a Mesa police officer that same day so LE was probably already wary of this guy since he showed no compunction about  resisting.

Still, it goes back to the chair.  Nationally, several inmates have been killed while in the restraint chair and since I do not think resisting arrest(without a weapon) warrants a death sentence, I'm concerned that the chair may be a tool that needs  upgrading/replacing.... YMMV.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 10:24:04 AM

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
ask and you shall receive

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1997-01-23/news/jailers-show-a-paraplegic-who-s-boss/1

Please keep in mind that the source is a free publication that doesn't really qualify as a newspaper. This publication answers to no entity as to the validity of their claims and is famously anti-Arpaio.  This is not a source for unbiased info on Arpaio.  Neither is the AZ Republic, a notoriously left wing rag.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Chairboy on January 03, 2008, 10:28:38 AM

Regarding the "if he hadn't struggled, he would have lived" comment, there's something I don't understand.  In an asphyxiation situation, death doesn't happen immediately.  First, the body struggles, then unconsciousness comes, then a while after that, death.  

If the death was a result of him struggling, why did he die after becoming unconscious?  Unless, of course, the suggestion is that his unconscious body continued struggling?  That doesn't make sense.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 10:30:46 AM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn

Return to prison/jail rate
------------------------------------------------------
National 52%
Arizona 41%
Maricopa County 60%
Maricopa DUI repeat offenders 40%




2000 2006 change
------------------------------------------------------
Felony filings: 26,317 29,662 +12.7%


source: The Maricopa County Attorney's Office

[/B]

These numbers have no bearing whatsoever, whether they reflect positively or not.  Maricopa county includes the Phoenix metro area, one of the largest cities in the US. Crime rates are higher in large cities  than in rural areas and smaller towns.  Of course the numbers will be higher than the national average. Also, the large illegal alien population will skew the numbers dramatically compared to the national average. I'm not saying Maricopa county is statistically better off w/ Arpaio, although that's the feeling among 80% of voters, I am saying that these numbers are moot.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: rpm on January 03, 2008, 12:08:14 PM

Let me jump back in the discussion for a sec.

Mav, I would'nt consider NewTimes a tabloid. National Enquirer, The Weekly World News, ect. are tabloids. NewTimes (and their other papers across the country) are alternative newspapers that tend to cover stories that other media outlets tend not to report. In fact most stories in these have quite a bit more investigative journalism. The Dallas Observer and Fort Worth Weekly are both the same type and have very good track records of being on the mark.

As for the stats, they don't seem to paint a very flattering picture. Like I said in my original post, if you play "cowboy sheriff" long enough you're eventually going to screw the pooch. I've followed Arpaio off and on since the whole tent city and pink underwear thing. He's had some good ideas and he's also become very fond of seeing himself on TV. It's usually the latter that will tend to get you in pooch screwing position.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 03, 2008, 12:25:50 PM

fine, i'm digging for this at work so not really doing a good job, i'll have more on it soon.

here's a mention of it

http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/

the counties agreement that they won't be treating people so inhumanely anymore

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1997/October97/451cr.htm.html

you've got to get to the middle of this one for the stuff on joe, but its cited and an interesting read, i'm looking through its sources now

http://www.ftpress.com/articles/article.aspx?p=440159&rl=1

and as stated by rpm, that newspaper isn't a tabloid, i found these to show that its not just a made up story.  the county ended up settling with him for 800,000.  i think joe just likes seeing his name in lights, it'll bite him in the bellybutton eventually

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Tango on January 03, 2008, 01:54:29 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Fishu
Let's block your airway and see if you struggle.

I'd have to give them reason a reason to do that first. Why was he struggling?

Even if I'm pulled over by a bad cop. I'm still gonna say "yes and no sir" and co-operate to avoid trouble. Maybe if more people would do this and seek out a lawyer afterwards there would be less violence involved.

NOW answer my question, why was he struggling?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 02:05:20 PM

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
Let me jump back in the discussion for a sec.

 I would'nt consider NewTimes a tabloid.  

No, but I don't consider it a reliable source, either.

I'd like a reasoned answer for this:  If Arpaio is such a pox on AZ, why does he have an 85% approval rating?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 02:43:32 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Maricopa county includes the Phoenix metro area, one of the largest cities in the US.

Phoenix metro area is not included in those numbers.

For comparison, Phoenix metro had about same increase in population as the rest of the county (21% vs 23%), but crime rate has increased by 1% since 2000 as opposed to 12.7% in rest of the Maricopa county.

Roughly same demographics, different crime stats...  PPD vs Arpaio.

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
[BI'm not saying Maricopa county is statistically better off w/ Arpaio, although that's the feeling among 80% of voters, I am saying that these numbers are moot. [/B]

That might be the problem. You guys go with feelings instead of facts.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 03, 2008, 04:10:03 PM

well you know what, not my problem really, i don't live there and don't ever plan on living there.  just amused me into research and commentary how people would put up with such a showboater

peoples fear of immigrants who will work harder for cheaper amuses me.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 04:12:54 PM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Phoenix metro area is not included in those numbers.

For comparison, Phoenix metro had about same increase in population as the rest of the county (21% vs 23%), but crime rate has increased by 1% since 2000 as opposed to 12.7% in rest of the Maricopa county.

Roughly same demographics, different crime stats...  PPD vs Arpaio.



 That might be the problem. You guys go with feelings instead of facts.

do you live here?  Maybe that's the problem.  you don't actually know what you are talking  about but you can quote some stats from a badly biased source.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 04:15:29 PM

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
peoples fear of immigrants who will work harder for cheaper amuses me.

Does it amuse you that they murder hundreds of people per year?  Does it amuse you that they have caused the closure of several hospitals?

Your fantasy that all illegal immigrants are all  just people that want to work harder for cheaper is just that... a fantasy.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2008, 04:15:29 PM

RPM,

I'm from AZ. and I'm pretty familiar with the versions of the new times in both Phoenix and Tucson. While they do cover stories that other news sources do not I hardly think that is a recommendation particularly since their "reporting" is more in the vein of editorializing without claiming to be an opinion piece. They tend to pick and choose their "stories" with even more of an eye for sensationalism that any of the more normal media. They also favor anything that can be an perceived as an embarrassment to the local and state governments. That also includes some of the local defense attorneys providing info to try and get them to "investigate" something that would help color their current case in court.

While they don't usually publish UFO or space alien claims I don't consider them to be that far above that level of "publication". They do provide reviews of the local topless places and sex shops as well as a very high content of porn adds.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 03, 2008, 04:30:44 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Does it amuse you that they murder hundreds of people per year?  Does it amuse you that they have caused the closure of several hospitals?

Your fantasy that all illegal immigrants are all  just people that want to work harder for cheaper is just that... a fantasy.

well how many immigrants have you worked with, face to face with?  how many have you met and learned about?  Having worked at multiple restaurants over the past I've worked with plenty.  

Hard working?  yup
violent?  not that i've ever seen
fun to work with?  sure thing, good humoured people

played pick up games of soccer on weekends back in high school, i learned a lot (but maybe your going to try to tell me how crappy the worlds most popular sport is?  footballs great and all, but too expensive with all the wussy pads and helmets you need)

now I'm not from Arizona so I can't say your immigrant workers are the same as here in North Carolina, but I'll wager a guess that they are pretty damn similar.  Maybe the problem with the crime is the black market nature of smuggling people and the dirt bags that come with it, just like coke or heroine.  but now i'm just blindly hypothesizing.

point being, i'm not just blindly and baselessly claiming that they are all violent and criminal by nature, i have first hand experience that they aren't.  further i'm sure there are deplorable criminals among them, but I'm above stereotyping it to the race.

:aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 03, 2008, 04:37:56 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
do you live here?  Maybe that's the problem.  you don't actually know what you are talking  about but you can quote some stats from a badly biased source.

The Maricopa County Attorney's Office is a badly biased source? That was the source 2bighorn cited for those figures he posted.  No offense but you do tend to "cry biased source" for any article that doesn't agree with your own opinions, regardless of the source.

ack-ack

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 04:39:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
point being, i'm not just blindly and baselessly claiming that they are all violent and criminal by nature, i have first hand experience that they aren't.  further i'm sure there are deplorable criminals among them, but I'm above stereotyping it to the race.

:aok

i'm not blindly  and baselessly claiming they are criminals.  They ARE all criminals, every illegal alien here is a criminal.  
Did I say they were all violent?  No.  Attempt to distort my words, and the facts: DENIED.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2008, 04:39:55 PM

Bongaroo,

Part of the problem is the lack of distance to Mexico for the border states. The close distance allows more and frequent trips for those who wish to commit crimes or drain the resources. It just takes a quick trip to gain access then if needs be slip back home.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 04:40:48 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The Maricopa County Attorney's Office is a badly biased source? That was the source 2bighorn cited for those figures he posted.  No offense but you do tend to "cry biased source" for any article that doesn't agree with your own opinions, regardless of the source.

ack-ack

Offense taken,   I'll discuss nothing with you as you are a racist bigot.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 04:41:41 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
you don't actually know what you are talking  about but you can quote some stats from a badly biased source.

Biased source?  :rofl

my sources:
Maricopa County Attorney's Office
Maricopa County Office of Management & Budget (stats from Budgeting Documents)
Maricopa County Sheriff's Office
Phoenix Police Department

Obviously, it's easier to go for Arpaio's publicity stunts then battle through hundreds of pages of data to find relevant numbers, I'll give you that.

Point is, today, people will listen only to what they want to hear (that includes you, Mr Bailey) . Everything else is 'biased', 'irrelevant', etc.

No wonder we elect wrong people year after year...

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 04:43:52 PM

Quote

can't say your immigrant workers are the same as here in North Carolina

They probably are.  I'm sure that the immigrant workers are exactly as you described:  hard working, good people.  The problem is that many illegals are not hard working, good people.

Finally, there is this perpetuated fantasy that criminal activists want to continue:  they take jobs Americans won't do.

If that's the case, who was doing these jobs before the illegals started crossing over?  Who?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 03, 2008, 04:43:59 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I'd like a reasoned answer for this:  If Arpaio is such a pox on AZ, why does he have an 85% approval rating?

Perception.  The people perceive him as tough on crime and a crime fighter due to his grand standing and media attention.  As long as the media keeps broadcasting those nice little sound bites that show him talking about getting tough on crime, or show his prisoners in pink underwear or the working chain gangs, or the cute one liners he likes to spew for the media the public will perceive him to be tough on crime and effective.  This translates into higher public approval ratings that he rides to re-election.

One thing for certain, he has a public relations/media consultant that any politician would die for.


ack-ack

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 04:44:44 PM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Biased source?  :rofl

my sources:
Maricopa County Attorney's Office
Maricopa County Office of Management & Budget (stats from Budgeting Documents)
Maricopa County Sheriff's Office
Phoenix Police Department

Obviously, it's easier to go for Arpaio's publicity stunts then battle through hundreds of pages of data to find relevant numbers, I'll give you that.

Point is, today, people will listen only to what they want to hear (that includes you, Mr Bailey) . Everything else is 'biased', 'irrelevant', etc.

No wonder we elect wrong people year after year...

Ya, all 85% of the population in Maricopa county are fooled..  :aok   :rofl

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 04:45:22 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Perception.  The people perceive him as tough on crime and a crime fighter due to his grand standing and media attention.  As long as the media keeps broadcasting those nice little sound bites that show him talking about getting tough on crime, or show his prisoners in pink underwear or the working chain gangs, or the cute one liners he likes to spew for the media the public will perceive him to be tough on crime and effective.  This translates into higher public approval ratings that he rides to re-election.

One thing for certain, he has a public relations/media consultant that any politician would die for.


ack-ack

Like I said, you are an anti-white racist.  I'll not discuss anything with you.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2008, 04:52:52 PM

If he continues at this rate Steve will have most of the bbs on ignore.  :lol

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 03, 2008, 04:55:33 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Offense taken,   I'll discuss nothing with you as you are a racist bigot.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/silverbeam/CSM%20Blog/head-in-sand.jpg)
Steve's usual response when dealing with facts that don't conform to his own close minded opinions



ack-ack

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 03, 2008, 04:56:45 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Like I said, you are an anti-white racist.  I'll not discuss anything with you.

I hate to burst your close minded mind but I'm just as white as you are.   I just happen to speak an extra language and have a better tan during the winter.


ack-ack

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 04:57:57 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I hate to burst your close minded mind but I'm just as white as you are.   I just happen to speak an extra language and have a better tan during the winter.


ack-ack

I've read racist text from you regarding the white race.  Maybe you hate your own race then, it makes you no less racist.  :aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 05:00:44 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Ya, all 85% of the population in Maricopa county are fooled..  :aok   :rofl

Not saying you are fooled, just that you're too lazy to do the homework and to think for yourself instead of falling for party rhetorics and publicity stunts of media potatos.

To put that into perspective:
According to Arpaio, he spends less money to feed an inmate than to feed a police dog.
With all the cuts he made, he should have never had budget problems, yet he repeatedly went over since late '90s.
With all the tough talk, crime rates aren't better either, nor his fight against illegals stopped border runners.

So... All cheap talk, no results...

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 05:02:07 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
If he continues at this rate Steve will have most of the bbs on ignore.  :lol

Yeah, he put me on his ignore list, yet somehow he still manages to get upset over my posts :rofl

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 05:07:52 PM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Not saying you are fooled, just that you're too lazy to do the homework and to think for yourself instead of falling for party rhetorics and publicity stunts of media potatos.

To put that into perspective:
According to Arpaio, he spends less money to feed an inmate than to feed a police dog.
With all the cuts he made, he should have never had budget problems, yet he repeatedly went over since late '90s.
With all the tough talk, crime rates aren't better either, nor his fight against illegals stopped border runners.

So... All cheap talk, no results...

He can't stop border runners... nor has he tried to. He has mde it, along with recent laws passed, tougher for illegal immigrants to live here. I, like over 80% of the County population, approve of this activity.

I believe more in punishment than foofie rehabilitation. So does Arpaio, so I vote for him.

This from the Maricopa County Attorney's office(since you like that source) regarding crime from 1990 to 1999:    
Maricopa County’s crime rate has decreased 28.3%
Maricopa County’s violent crime rate has decreased 23%
Maricopa County’s property crime rate has decreased 28.8%

I'm sorry, what was that about no results?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: john9001 on January 03, 2008, 05:08:39 PM

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
well how many immigrants have you worked with, face to face with?  how many have you met and learned about?  Having worked at multiple restaurants over the past I've worked with plenty.  

good golly miss molly, for the 1000 time , it's not "immigrants", it's ILLEGALS, stop calling people that come into this country without permission "immigrants", they are criminals.

and yes, i know some real immigrants that came here legally, i helped one to become a citizen. :furious

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 05:10:26 PM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Yeah, he put me on his ignore list, yet somehow he still manages to get upset over my posts :rofl

umm I don't recall ever putting you on ignore.  Reference please?

The only person I have on ignore, or have ever had on ignore is Maverick.
I'm sure Maverick is a nice guy but I am unable to effectively communicate with him as he has poor reading comprehension skills and argues in a juvenile fashion, never addressing counter points, merely ignoring them.
It was a little frustrating so I put him on ignore, rather than waste pixels and time. :)

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 03, 2008, 05:15:19 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I've read racist text from you regarding the white race.  Maybe you hate your own race then, it makes you no less racist.  :aok

Oh, you mean when I called you a "gringo"?  But you are, so am I the last time I checked.  After all, "Gringo" is used in reference about someone's nationality not race.    

Though, I do have to give you a 6 out of 10 for trying to change the subject of this thread.  Next time though, try and put a little more emotion behind it and you may just pull off a perfect 10.


ack-ack

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 03, 2008, 05:17:38 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
umm I don't recall ever putting you on ignore.  Reference please?

The only person I have on ignore, or have ever had on ignore is Maverick.
I'm sure Maverick is a nice guy but I am unable to effectively communicate with him as he has poor reading comprehension skills and argues in a juvenile fashion, never addressing counter points, merely ignoring them.
It was a little frustrating so I put him on ignore, rather than waste pixels and time. :)

So basically, he's your doppleganger.


ack-ack

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Airscrew on January 03, 2008, 05:21:59 PM

THE DAY IT ALL STARTED


This is for all you history buffs. Actually documented.
It was March 6, 1836. On that fateful day, Davy Crockett woke up and rose
from his bunk on the main floor of the Alamo. He then walked up to the
observation post along the west wall of this fort. William B. Travis and Jim
Bowie were already there, looking out over the top of the wall.
These three great men gazed at the hordes of Mexicans moving steadily toward
them.

With a puzzled look on his face, Crockett turned to Bowie and said, "Jim,
are we having some landscaping done today?"

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 03, 2008, 05:26:02 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Airscrew
THE DAY IT ALL STARTED


This is for all you history buffs. Actually documented.
It was March 6, 1836. On that fateful day, Davy Crockett woke up and rose
from his bunk on the main floor of the Alamo. He then walked up to the
observation post along the west wall of this fort. William B. Travis and Jim
Bowie were already there, looking out over the top of the wall.
These three great men gazed at the hordes of Mexicans moving steadily toward
them.

With a puzzled look on his face, Crockett turned to Bowie and said, "Jim,
are we having some landscaping done today?"

LOL!  That's always been one of my favorites.  Here's another one....why don't they have sex education and driver's education on the same day in Mexico?  




Only so many donkeys to go around.




ack-ack

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 03, 2008, 05:27:22 PM

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
good golly miss molly, for the 1000 time , it's not "immigrants", it's ILLEGALS, stop calling people that come into this country without permission "immigrants", they are criminals.

and yes, i know some real immigrants that came here legally, i helped one to become a citizen. :furious

well try this on for size.  truthfully tell me you have never gone over the speed limit once and then i won't call you a criminal, criminal :D

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 05:27:47 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I'm sorry, what was that about no results?

Would be great if you actually scrolled down in that document and look at the numbers instead of picking on headers only (gives different totals), besides, my numbers were for 2000-2006/7.

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
umm I don't recall ever putting you on ignore. Reference please?

Ref.: http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2687545&highlight=bighorn#post2687545

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Bighorn, you're just being an argumentative *******. I'm trying to have a civil conversation. save your text, you are on my ignore list.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 05:28:02 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Oh, you mean when I called you a "gringo"?  But you are, so am I the last time I checked.  After all, "Gringo" is used in reference about someone's nationality not race.    

Though, I do have to give you a 6 out of 10 for trying to change the subject of this thread.  Next time though, try and put a little more emotion behind it and you may just pull off a perfect 10.


ack-ack

Gringo is racist... so is "cracker"  which you have used.
It's interesting you claim to be white.  A person who met you at one of the Cons described you as:  an unpleasant and quite short Phillipino looking sort.(his words, not mine)

Edit:  again, I'll not address you in this thread beyond the scope of your racism. You are beneath me.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 03, 2008, 05:28:16 PM

wasn't bowie sick on a bed in the alamo when they killed him?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 05:31:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn


 
Ref.: http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2687545&highlight=bighorn#post2687545

you made a conciliatory post after that so i let it slide. Are you hinting that doing so was a mistake?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 05:33:40 PM

Quote

Would be great if you actually scrolled down in that document and look at the numbers instead of picking on headers only (gives different totals), besides, my numbers were for 2000-2006/7.

Well your logic is flawed.  Crime numbers  are bound to go up anywhere that the population goes up.  You are being deliberately misleading.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2008, 05:37:15 PM

I believe the question regarding the stats was the stat about recidivism at that specific jail, not overall crime numbers.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 03, 2008, 05:41:23 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Gringo is racist... so is "cracker"  which you have used.
It's interesting you claim to be white.  A person who met you at one of the Cons described you as:  an unpleasant and quite short Phillipino looking sort.(his words, not mine)

Edit:  again, I'll not address you in this thread beyond the scope of your racism. You are beneath me.

Hmm...which Con?  I've only been to one AW Con and that was back in '98 and I attended as a CH Rep and the '98 WB Con, also attended as the CH Rep.  And turst me, with all the goodies I brought along with me to give away, I was probably one of the more popular and sought after people at both Cons.  Ask Stilleto, Torpedo, Vet, ZZ3, Quarters, Mouse, Dose or anyone that was actually at the 98 AW Con in SF.  Or any of the MOL members (my WB squad mates), Gunjam, Killer, Mouse (he was at both Cons, shot me down at both Cons too), Moonie, heck even Wild Bill bought me a couple of beers, though I did have to sit through his boring stories at the '98 WB Con.

Though, at 5'7", I do admit I'm rather on the short side, well at least average ^__^.

Oh, I don't claim to be white.  It's written on my birth certificate, says that I'm 100% caucasian baby!  ^__^

Though, having seen you on TV, I would be willing to venture if you and I were to go to East L.A. and and ask anyone to pick which one of us was the "Beener", you'd be picked 9 times out of 10.  You look far more "Hispanic" than I ever will.

Again, no offense intended but how can you be above anyone else when all you do is wallow in the gutter?

Nice try again on the thread hijack but it still needs more emotion but I will bump it up to 7 out of 10 on the hijack meter.


ack-ack

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 05:44:21 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Oh, I don't claim to be white.
ack-ack

Quote

hate to burst your close minded mind but I'm just as white as you are.

:aok :lol

Quote

Hmm...which Con?

Honestly I do not remember.  This conversation was before I realized how much you disliked white people so, at the time, I held you in high regard and told the person  I didn't want to hear anymore derogatory things about you.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 05:46:31 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Well your logic is flawed.  Crime numbers  are bound to go up anywhere that the population goes up.  You are being deliberately misleading.

Misleading?

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
For comparison, Phoenix metro had about same increase in population as the rest of the county (21% vs 23%), but crime rate has increased by 1% since 2000 as opposed to 12.7% in rest of the Maricopa county.

Roughly same demographics, different crime stats... PPD vs Arpaio.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 05:48:44 PM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Misleading?

Yes misleading.  Do they report crimes the same way?


Edit:   Have you posted a link to your source?  If you have, and I missed it,  I apologize.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 05:54:15 PM

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
well try this on for size.  truthfully tell me you have never gone over the speed limit once and then i won't call you a criminal, criminal :D

Speeding is not a criminal offense, until you are cited for being 20 MPH(in AZ) over the limit

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 05:54:41 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Do they report crimes the same way?

Uniform Crime Reporting Standards...

Both, PHX PD and Maricopa County are voluntarily reporting by those standards.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 05:57:28 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Edit:   Have you posted a link to your source?  If you have, and I missed it,  I apologize.

http://phoenix.gov/POLICE/ucrhistpart1v.pdf
http://phoenix.gov/POLICE/ucrhistpart1p.pdf

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 06:01:01 PM

Thanks for the links.  I'm having trouble finding the County to PPD comparison.  I'm not trying to be difficult, I really can't find it.  will you help me, please?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: john9001 on January 03, 2008, 06:02:27 PM

Quote

Originally posted by bongaroo
well try this on for size.  truthfully tell me you have never gone over the speed limit once and then i won't call you a criminal, criminal :D

nice stretch there Mr rubberband man, what i said was to stop calling people that enter this country without permission "immigrants', they are criminals, you want to classify them the same as the real immigrants that have come to this country the legal way.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 06:12:01 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Thanks for the links.  I'm having trouble finding the County to PPD comparison.  I'm not trying to be difficult, I really can't find it.  will you help me, please?

http://www.maricopacountyattorney.org/ANNUAL_REPORT/PDF/ar2006.pdf
page 23
http://www.maricopacountyattorney.org/ANNUAL_REPORT/PDF/ar2001.pdf
page 18-19
http://www.maricopacountyattorney.org/ANNUAL_REPORT/PDF/ar2000.pdf
page 18

Earlier stats are by Fiscal year instead of Calender year, so you'll have to do some math. Maricopa county FY is from july to july

Crime stats also here: http://www.maricopa.gov/Budget/BudgetDocument.aspx
Warning: each Business Strategies Report is several hundreds page long, but you'll find all kinds of useful data....

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 06:13:21 PM

I did find this though for 2006 in the UCR

Violent crime in Phoenix 2005:  10691
Violent crime in Phoenix 2006:  11194

Increase of 4.7 %





Violent crime in Maricopa County 2005: not reporting?
Violent crime in Maricopa County 2006:   850

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 06:17:25 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Increase of 4.7 %

I was comparing all, violent and property crimes, that is, increase from 2000 to 2006 and increase in population for the same period.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 06:18:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
I was comparing all, violent and property crimes, that is, increase from 2000 to 2006 and increase in population for the same period.

I understand.  There was no category for "all crimes" on the table I viewed.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 06:19:04 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
Violent crime in Maricopa County 2005: not reporting?

Listed in stats for 2006 (comparison table) (they switched from FY to CY reporting)

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 06:21:34 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I understand.  There was no category for "all crimes" on the table I viewed.

Right on the top is summary for all crimes (listed as "TOTAL VIOLENT AND PROPERTY CRIMES") in both docs

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 06:22:09 PM

Weird, you said that crime went up 12.7% yet in the very link you posted, Maricopa county said:  Selected Adult Felony Filings have decreased from 2005 to 2006 by 1%.

Edit: Wait... you are going from 2000-2006 right?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: REP0MAN on January 03, 2008, 06:23:03 PM

Bighorn, no offense intended sir but until you linked to the PPD UCR stats, you had not brought any concrete referenced information to this thread. Your initial post with the DA numbers was in a different font with the words "Maricopa County District Attny's Office" at the bottom. Sorry, that means diddly to me unless there is somewhere that the DA's office puts it and you link to it. I think thats where you lost me and fired up Steve. Looking at the UCR data you linked, I hardly see how it has anything to do with the Sheriffs performance, approval ratings or successes in lowering crime in Maricopa County (Phoenix included). I see a population jump from 1.2 mil to almost 1.6 mil in those stats and see that the City of Phoenix Police has done a fine job in their attempts to keep crime at bay. Link to something concrete that says that Sheriff doesn't deserve the publics 85% approval rating. That would be interesting.

It's very hard for me, a former police officer and DRE, to really take anything Bongaroo says seriously. Maybe its the redundant reference to Marijuana in your CPID and BBS name; maybe your avatar. Regardless, it's ironic that you display your support for an illegal substance and all of the illegal immigrants you've worked with were cool to you. I see the link.

Illegal immigrants have ruined many things in this valley. The neighborhood where I grew up is in shambles, riddled with nightly shootings and drop house raids and is a hot bed for illegal drugs and stolen property. You may contact my good friend Butch if you need to know how bad it is. He can be reached at:

Desert Horizon Precinct - Community Action Officer (CIO) Phoenix Police Department.
Officer Butch Titus
602-534-1747
butch.titus@phoenix.gov
Link (http://phoenix.gov/POLICE/600dhp1.html)

:aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 06:32:26 PM

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
Bighorn, no offense intended sir but until you linked to the PPD UCR stats, you had not brought any concrete referenced information to this thread. Your initial post with the DA numbers was in a different font with the words "Maricopa County District Attny's Office" at the bottom. Sorry, that means diddly to me unless there is somewhere that the DA's office puts it and you link to it. I think thats where you lost me and fired up Steve. Looking at the UCR data you linked, I hardly see how it has anything to do with the Sheriffs performance, approval ratings or successes in lowering crime in Maricopa County (Phoenix included). I see a population jump from 1.2 mil to almost 1.6 mil in those stats and see that the City of Phoenix Police has done a fine job in their attempts to keep crime at bay. Link to something concrete that says that Sheriff doesn't deserve the publics 85% approval rating. That would be interesting.

Honestly, I made exception and posted links for Steve, since he said he has trouble finding them.

I'd suggest you visit that web site and read as I did. If you come to different conclusions that's OK, but at least it'll be based on facts rather than PR

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
It's very hard for me, a former police officer and DRE, to really take anything Bongaroo says seriously. Maybe its the redundant reference to Marijuana in your CPID and BBS name; maybe your avatar. Regardless, it's ironic that you display your support for an illegal substance and all of the illegal immigrants you've worked with were cool to you. I see the link.  

I have no connections with Bongaroo, nor did I reference any of his posts.

Now, how you link me and illegal substance is mystery to me.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: REP0MAN on January 03, 2008, 06:37:20 PM

I apologize BigHorn, I didn't mean a link between you and bangaroo. I mean a link between his many positive experiences with Illegal Immigrants and his super lust for an illegal substance.

sir

:aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: FrodeMk3 on January 03, 2008, 06:42:43 PM

Repo, I would like to ask, though, is there an organizational difference between the Phoenix PD and the Maricopa Co. SD? If PPD is a branch of the SD, then I can see some credit going to Arapajo; But if PPD is a seperate/municipal entity, then PPD would deserve credit for the lowering of any crime rate in Phoenix Metro, right?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 06:49:07 PM

Quote

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Repo, I would like to ask, though, is there an organizational difference between the Phoenix PD and the Maricopa Co. SD? If PPD is a branch of the SD, then I can see some credit going to Arapajo; But if PPD is a seperate/municipal entity, then PPD would deserve credit for the lowering of any crime rate in Phoenix Metro, right?

Works the same way as in Kern County and similar to BPD and Kern Sheriff, they do share some resources and they do cooperate in some matters...

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: FrodeMk3 on January 03, 2008, 06:51:54 PM

I hear ya there, Bighorn. I can remember Carl Sparks' getting credit for some of the things' that the BPD really did on it's own...

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: REP0MAN on January 03, 2008, 06:59:29 PM

Of course there is Frode. MCSO is county government; PPD is city (municipal) government. I would agree with your interjection but I believe it should be directed to BigHorn as he posted both agency's stats. As I said in my initial post to BigHorn,

Quote

Looking at the UCR data you linked, I hardly see how it has anything to do with the Sheriffs performance, approval ratings or successes in lowering crime in Maricopa County (Phoenix included). I see a population jump from 1.2 mil to almost 1.6 mil in those stats and see that the City of Phoenix Police has done a fine job in their attempts to keep crime at bay. Link to something concrete that says that Sheriff doesn't deserve the publics 85% approval rating. That would be interesting.

I am asking, in short, for someone to show me why the Sheriff doesn't deserve the approval rating he currently has.

Interesting thought though; if Sheriff Joe's methods lower crime in Maricopa County, wouldn't that, by proxy, lower the crime in Phoenix as Phoenix is inside Maricopa County?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: moot on January 03, 2008, 07:10:03 PM

He stopped deserving praise for the good things he did when he got rotten like so many other people in such positions of power.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: FrodeMk3 on January 03, 2008, 07:16:45 PM

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
Of course there is Frode. MCSO is county government; PPD is city (municipal) government. I would agree with your interjection but I believe it should be directed to BigHorn as he posted both agency's stats. As I said in my initial post to BigHorn,

 

I am asking, in short, for someone to show me why the Sheriff doesn't deserve the approval rating he currently has.

Interesting thought though; if Sheriff Joe's methods lower crime in Maricopa County, wouldn't that, by proxy, lower the crime in Phoenix as Phoenix is inside Maricopa County?

I hear ya there...That's a good question. The stat's in that case would have to be first split by jurisdiction, then compared, to see if there was any drastic change in reduction....

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 07:18:21 PM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
He stopped deserving praise for the good things he did when he got rotten like so many other people in such positions of power.

Well, welcome to the 15%.  :)

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 07:26:51 PM

Quote

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
I hear ya there...That's a good question. The stat's in that case would have to be first split by jurisdiction, then compared, to see if there was any drastic change in reduction....

Well, the stats are split, that was the whole point and only possible way of somewhat comparing the two.

Quote

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Interesting thought though; if Sheriff Joe's methods lower crime in Maricopa County, wouldn't that, by proxy, lower the crime in Phoenix as Phoenix is inside Maricopa County?

Since the stats are split, no.

That said, criminal cought by sheriff can't commit crime in PHX metro area, so yes, he does lower crime in metro area, but reverse is also true, criminal put away by PPD won't commit crimes in Sheriff's jurisdiction, so it equals out.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bj229r on January 03, 2008, 07:33:56 PM

I've spent a LOT of time in Phoenix....working on electronic stuff in prisons in nearby Florence....(my company also did the electronic stuff in Joe's NEW jail....actually made of concrete) since it's usually like 900 degrees outside, even at night, I tended to spend heap much time watching local tv in the motel, ...and from that I've concluded ALL the local liberal media hates Joe with a passion, as with all  the local liberal columnists...and that's good enough for me:aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: FrodeMk3 on January 03, 2008, 07:37:12 PM

Quote

Originally posted by bj229r
I've spent a LOT of time in Phoenix....working on electronic stuff in prisons in nearby Florence....(my company also did the electronic stuff in Joe's NEW jail....actually made of concrete) since it's usually like 900 degrees outside, even at night, I tended to spend heap much time watching local tv in the motel, ...and from that I've concluded ALL the local liberal media hates Joe with a passion, as with all  the local liberal columnists...and that's good enough for me:aok

Yeah...I don't live in the area, so I can't really form an opinion either way, myself. It's just better to get a feel for both sides of the story.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 07:49:15 PM

Quote

Originally posted by bj229r
and from that I've concluded ALL the local liberal media hates Joe with a passion, as with all  the local liberal columnists

Since when do you pay so much attention to liberal media? Closet commie...

 ;)

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 03, 2008, 08:22:50 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
I did find this though for 2006 in the UCR

Violent crime in Phoenix 2005:  10691
Violent crime in Phoenix 2006:  11194

Increase of 4.7 %





Violent crime in Maricopa County 2005: not reporting?
Violent crime in Maricopa County 2006:   850

but the real question is. how many of those crimes were commited by repeat offenders?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 08:35:34 PM

Quote

but crime rate has increased by 1% since 2000 as opposed to 12.7% in rest of the Maricopa county.

2Bighorn,

Not according to the statistics in your link.  Crime is rated at number of crimes per 100,000 people.  In 2000,  Maricopa County had 895.72 crimes per 100,000.  In 2006, Maricopa County had 787.18 crimes per 100,000.

This is a decrease  in crime rate and not an increase of 12.7%.  You gave inaccurate information.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: 2bighorn on January 03, 2008, 09:26:00 PM

Quote

Originally posted by SteveBailey
2Bighorn,

Not according to the statistics in your link.  Crime is rated at number of crimes per 100,000 people.  In 2000,  Maricopa County had 895.72 crimes per 100,000.  In 2006, Maricopa County had 787.18 crimes per 100,000.

This is a decrease  in crime rate and not an increase of 12.7%.  You gave inaccurate information.

Umm no, I didn't give inaccurate information.

If I provide you with total number of crimes for both jurisdiction I'd also have to provide you with increase in population for both, which I did.

It's logical that if crimes in Maricopa Co go up for 12.7% and population 23% in the same period, crime rate per 100,000 drops.

In comparison, PHX crimes go up by 1% and population 22%, crime rate per 100,000 drops too, albeit much more than in Maricopa.

Whether you compare in absolute numbers, or by rate per 100,000, result is the same, as it should be, since in both cases increase in population is accounted for.


Either way you measure, it shows that Maricopa Sheriff's method of running the show does not reduce crime rate nor detters criminals to offend again any more than conventional law enforcement method of PHX PD.

In fact, PHX PD does better job.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: SteveBailey on January 03, 2008, 10:40:17 PM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Umm no, I didn't give inaccurate information.

If I provide you with total number of crimes for both jurisdiction I'd also have to provide you with increase in population for both, which I did.

It's logical that if crimes in Maricopa Co go up for 12.7% and population 23% in the same period, crime rate per 100,000 drops.

In comparison, PHX crimes go up by 1% and population 22%, crime rate per 100,000 drops too, albeit much more than in Maricopa.

Whether you compare in absolute numbers, or by rate per 100,000, result is the same, as it should be, since in both cases increase in population is accounted for.


Either way you measure, it shows that Maricopa Sheriff's method of running the show does not reduce crime rate nor detters criminals to offend again any more than conventional law enforcement method of PHX PD.

In fact, PHX PD does better job.

The standard for measuring crime is crime per 100k population.  The crime rate went down in Maricopa County, to say otherwise is disingenuous.

We aren't discussing Phx PD, although I'm pleased to hear of their successes.  We are discussing Arpaio, and during his tenure, the crime rate has dropped.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: REP0MAN on January 04, 2008, 12:03:10 AM

Jurisdictional talk is funny. Here is a small lesson on Phoenix and Maricopa County.

Maricopa County is 9,226 Square Miles and encompasses the fifth largest metropolitan area in the nation, Phoenix being the fifth largest city in the nation. There are many suburban cities and towns that make up this vast metro area. Phoenix is the largest, growing all the time, currently at 516 square miles.

The City of Phoenix Police Department's jurisdictional boundary is limited to the city limits of Phoenix. Police Officers, certified by the state certifying arm AzPost, are enabled to carry out the duties of a police officer in any portion of the state of Arizona. Jurisdictional boundaries, in this sense, bind the Court Systems of Phoenix (and the other municipal courts).

Maricopa County Superior Court is the Judicial Branch in which all criminal cases are tended to when they go beyond the municipal level. These courts are on the County Government Level and have jurisdictional boundary which stops at the geographical border of the county. Then, you have the state level of courts.

It is not fair to the sheriffs office to take the municipalities away from them in a crime statistic form. Without all the municipalities, you have only Fountain Hills, the Lakes, Sun City, Sun Lakes, Tonopah and other rural areas. The success of the Sheriffs Office, in the context of this tread, would be measured in studying the entire Valley's crime stats, municipalities included. Since all offenders go to the county jail system regardless of the city of their crime; it would only be right to measure MCSO's success by incorporating the entire valley's UCRs as a whole.

Sorry if I lost some of you. I have a rather elevated BAC ;)

:aok

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: rpm on January 04, 2008, 12:54:45 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick
RPM,

I'm from AZ. and I'm pretty familiar with the versions of the new times in both Phoenix and Tucson. While they do cover stories that other news sources do not I hardly think that is a recommendation particularly since their "reporting" is more in the vein of editorializing without claiming to be an opinion piece. They tend to pick and choose their "stories" with even more of an eye for sensationalism that any of the more normal media. They also favor anything that can be an perceived as an embarrassment to the local and state governments. That also includes some of the local defense attorneys providing info to try and get them to "investigate" something that would help color their current case in court.

While they don't usually publish UFO or space alien claims I don't consider them to be that far above that level of "publication". They do provide reviews of the local topless places and sex shops as well as a very high content of porn adds.

Oh, don't get me wrong Mav. I don't confuse New Times with The Washington Post or The Dallas Morning News. But, they do tend to dig up stories those outlets don't cover and for the most part, from what I have seen, they are very good at investigative journalism. They also have plenty of personal ads and plenty of ads for strip clubs or sex services, hence the name "alternative".

While I don't read New Times, I do read The Dallas Observer and Fort Worth Weekly. I can recommend them for their journalism and choice of stories. They do more or less support the "little guy" or "average Joe" that have been done wrong and have been ignored by larger media outlets. If you want to cruise the back pages, well that's a personal choice.

I'd still like to see a study of repeat offenders. The numbers shown don't seem to support his efforts. Like I said, I do support many of his ideas. But if they are doing nothing more than getting him on TV and causing law suit settlements, I don't see the point.

The arrest of NASCAR driver Kurt Bush for DWI then cropping of charges and subsequent release seems to me like all he was after was press and a few $$$, not serious law enforcement.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bj229r on January 04, 2008, 06:03:41 AM

Quote

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Since when do you pay so much attention to liberal media? Closet commie...

 ;)

Lol, not like you can avoid them:p

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 04, 2008, 09:13:44 AM

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
It's very hard for me, a former police officer and DRE, to really take anything Bongaroo says seriously. Maybe its the redundant reference to Marijuana in your CPID and BBS name; maybe your avatar. Regardless, it's ironic that you display your support for an illegal substance and all of the illegal immigrants you've worked with were cool to you. I see the link.

:aok

well repo, you being an OU fan (alumni?) makes it very hard for me to take anything you have to say seriously either  :D  But I go ahead and read what you have to say and how your saying it anyway, because thats the important part; not how you present yourself in an avatar or bbs name but in what you have to say.

Steve appeared to me to be painting a broad picture of violent migrant workers destroying the land and I was providing first hand evidence that there are plenty of hard working, non-violent people among them.

No reason to get into a debate on why marijuana should be legalized in this thread, but maybe we can start a thread about that soon?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 04, 2008, 09:26:15 AM

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
I apologize BigHorn, I didn't mean a link between you and bangaroo. I mean a link between his many positive experiences with Illegal Immigrants and his super lust for an illegal substance.

sir

:aok

oh man, i'm jonesing so bad for a J right now...i "super lust" for it!  i'm such a deplorable useless piece of society.  I must have a crappy part time job, no college degree and no future!  I need my fix sooooooo bad I think i'll go rob some old lady at gunpoint or jack a car.  

Or am I a hard working sucessful draftsman that happens to enjoy a harmless pastime in the comfort of my own home with good friends.  

I bet you watched reefer madness and took it seriously didn't you?

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: REP0MAN on January 04, 2008, 11:28:55 AM

While I'd love to debate the finer points of your drug of choice, this is not the place.  I will say that its not the actual drug I am against, its the fact that it is against the law. Breaking the law makes you, me and everyone else in this O'Club a criminal.

Thank you for thinking of me as an OU allum. I could only wish to have attended such a great school. Although, right now, being an OU fan kinda sucks, it far from the criminality of Marijuana use/possession/sale.  

The fact of the matter, and my point, was that it is very difficult for you to make a serious point about a legal matter when your "Pothead Nation" flag flies so high and mighty. I could care less if you like to smoke the wacky-tobacky. It is your personal choice. I'm happy you enjoy it so much. You carry a bias when it comes to dealing with Law Enforcement. Its naturally caused by your "pastime." When its in your car or your pocket, you watch continuously in your mirror or over your shoulder for the red-n-blue. Your views on police behavior and methods are skewed because you have to hide yourself from them, for fear of getting caught. Then to say that all the illegals that you've had contact with are hardworking people who are just looking for a break; its a moot point from your respective lips. I agree that not ALL illegal immigrants are criminals by nature. It is the very fact that they are 'illegal' immigrants that makes them criminals. Enter legally, follow the rules.

Before you load up the word cannon to fire back, know this. I'm not saying that you are a bad person or don't have the same rights to share your viewpoints. I don't think you are in anyway, less than anyone else. I merely shared my personal opinion that since you are adamant about broadcasting your criminal behavior, you're not the best person to be telling anyone how or how not to run a Sheriffs Office and Jail system.

sir

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: FrodeMk3 on January 04, 2008, 11:41:39 AM

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
While I'd love to debate the finer points of your drug of choice, this is not the place.  I will say that its not the actual drug I am against, its the fact that it is against the law. Breaking the law makes you, me and everyone else in this O'Club a criminal.

Thank you for thinking of me as an OU allum. I could only wish to have attended such a great school. Although, right now, being an OU fan kinda sucks, it far from the criminality of Marijuana use/possession/sale.  

The fact of the matter, and my point, was that it is very difficult for you to make a serious point about a legal matter when your "Pothead Nation" flag flies so high and mighty. I could care less if you like to smoke the wacky-tobacky. It is your personal choice. I'm happy you enjoy it so much. You carry a bias when it comes to dealing with Law Enforcement. Its naturally caused by your "pastime." When its in your car or your pocket, you watch continuously in your mirror or over your shoulder for the red-n-blue. Your views on police behavior and methods are skewed because you have to hide yourself from them, for fear of getting caught. Then to say that all the illegals that you've had contact with are hardworking people who are just looking for a break; its a moot point from your respective lips. I agree that not ALL illegal immigrants are criminals by nature. It is the very fact that they are 'illegal' immigrants that makes them criminals. Enter legally, follow the rules.

Before you load up the word cannon to fire back, know this. I'm not saying that you are a bad person or don't have the same rights to share your viewpoints. I don't think you are in anyway, less than anyone else. I merely shared my personal opinion that since you are adamant about broadcasting your criminal behavior, you're not the best person to be telling anyone how or how not to run a Sheriffs Office and Jail system.

sir

...Wow. Repo.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: john9001 on January 04, 2008, 12:54:22 PM

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
Breaking the law makes you, me and everyone else in this O'Club a criminal.

once upon a time it was a crime to teach a negro to read.

just saying, there are laws and there are "laws".

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 04, 2008, 01:30:20 PM

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
once upon a time it was a crime to teach a negro to read.

just saying, there are laws and there are "laws".

agreed, civil disobidience is a great way to inspire change in attitudes and laws.

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: bongaroo on January 04, 2008, 01:37:45 PM

Quote

Originally posted by REP0MAN
I'm happy you enjoy it so much. You carry a bias when it comes to dealing with Law Enforcement. Its naturally caused by your "pastime." When its in your car or your pocket, you watch continuously in your mirror or over your shoulder for the red-n-blue. Your views on police behavior and methods are skewed because you have to hide yourself from them, for fear of getting caught.

last i'll say about this but no need to worry in my car since i don't speed and its never there.  god bless fedex overnights and air sealed containers.

quoting cypress hill "look who just got an ounce in the mail"

:D

Title: Sheriff Joe Is At It Again
Post by: REP0MAN on January 04, 2008, 02:08:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by john9001
once upon a time it was a crime to teach a negro to read.

just saying, there are laws and there are "laws".

And its still legal to shoot and kill cattle thieves in Arizona.

Your comparison is irrelevant.

Welcome to 2008

:D