Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Wingnutt on January 02, 2008, 07:02:28 PM
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Before I get started.
this will be a running review lasting 1 month..
it will be updated periodically as i get more familiar with the stick (and its issues/problems if any)
Im writing this review in response to the number of questions regarding it in-game, plus because another board member suggest it.
THIS IS NOT an X52 vs Cougar comparison, the X52 is mentioned purely for reference purposes
so, ok here we go.
lets start with some pics and a brief description, the cougar is shown side bside the Saitek X52 for scale comparison.
FIRST, the stick.
(http://pages.suddenlink.net/ja001son/Cougar1.jpg)
when you first pick up the stick the first thing that goes though your head is "is it nailed down?" it is THAT heavy.. just the stick by itself weighs approximately 7 times what the entire X52 setup weights. and no im not joking and no im not exaggerating.. it is extraordinarily heavy..
I expected it to be heavier than usual due to its all metal construction, but I was still shocked.. you need not worry about suction cups our mounting it to your desk, as few things short of an act of god will move it. 4 beefy textured rubber pads, one on each corner adorn the bottom.
secondly, its metal.. and by its metal i mean.. EVEYTHING.. with the exception of the rubber boot around the base of the handle.. everything..is steel.. every button, every hat.
the amount tension is.. enormous the amount of force needed to reach full deflection such that your right arm will be as tired as it was the first week you hit puberty and.. discovered yourself :aok
Buttons: there are 17 of them + and 8-way hat that can be depressed as a button aswell. all are detected by Windows/AH with no additional software.
now, onto the THROTTLE
(http://pages.suddenlink.net/ja001son/Cougar2.jpg)
again next to the X52 throttle for comparison.
while the sticks were similar in size, the throttle is notably larger both in length and throw (sweep of the throttle)
as with the stick it weighs about 11 metric tons and is all metal.
the throttle has 2 gates one for just out of ifle, and one just before full throttle.. which you may or may not like.. im finding it a little wierd and the clacking through them is a little annoying.. but we will see how this pans out a little further down the road as I use it more.
Buttons: 11 + 2 wheels
all are detected by Windows/AH without any additional software.
Inital use.. thoughts
Dont misinterpret this.. but it is VERY VERY different than the X52 as far as feel goes.. now im not saying it feels better or worse, that is a matter of personal preference and is subject to endless debate which I will not start.
but make no mistake, if you are used to the X52, the cougar will be UNCOMFORTABLE AND STRANGE at first..
for a few reasons.
Resistance:
the X52 had fairly light resistance that was fairly constant from center to full deflection, with the cougar:
1: there is ALOT more
2: it increases as you move further off center
secondly the smoothness it is smooth to a degree that it feels almost strange. :huh
I upped fighter and started toying around.. and to be sure, there is a learning curve.. just like going from a twisty stick to rudder pedals.. at first you will be set back slightly and will have to re-learn the controls a bit.. this is by no means a negative, but be prepared for a but of practice time and tweaking to get acquainted to what is going to be a VERY different feeling that what you are used to.
Other thoughts:
SOFTWARE:
I installed all the accompanying software, including Foxy, but havent messed with it much as of yet.. none of it is required to use the controller. but Im sure it can be very useful once you get past what appears to be a rather steep learning curve.
Manual:
jesus christ, 183 pages, are you serious.. ive only flipped through it briefly but things such as "BUTTON STATMENTS AND TM KEY SYNTAX", and "STATEMENT MODIFIERS" jumped out at me. :huh so, yea I will DEFIANTLY have to get back to you on that.
More to come.
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Keep it coming wing,great start on the review..:aok
Kevin
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REVIEW UPDATE #1:
So far I hate it.
the layout of the buttons and ergonomics and all that are just great..
but the flatspot when moving from left to right or forward to back.. etc is extraordinarily irritating to me at this point.
more to come.
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I've never noticed any flat spot on mine or my buddie's, That's weird. If it keeps up, you might want to give thrustmaster a call and ask them about it.
One important thing, in case you weren't aware of it, is you should open the bottom of your joystick and make sure the bottom of the shaft has been lubricated. There was a large number of Cougars that shipped without lubrication in that spot, and that can cause wear on the shaft, etc, etc.
Both my buddie's and mine needed lubrication. You'll see it easily if it isn't lubbed at the very bottom of the shaft. If it isn't, then use some white lube or something similar.
Wabbit
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yea i lubed the gimble, and yea it was bone dry.
the flat spot im referring to is the pivot point on the gimbles that you can feel in the stick movment.
ive done more reading than a sane man should at frugals site regarding this aswell as the mods to do away with it/lessen it.
it is normal however and is just a part of how the stick is designed.
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REVIEW UPDATE #2:
the flot spot referenced in UPDATE 1 got me reading the manual and doing some digging.
I was able to use the Axis shaping in the cougar control panel to alleviate the problem this was causing me.
Cougar control panel is similar, though much more powerful than, the AH stick scaling and deadband calibration menu. it alos curving and trimming of Axis so that (with some time invested and effort) you can trim and curve the responses the stick creats in game to what your brain expects.. so insted of a train of though that goes "want gun aimed here, move stick, see result, adjust" you get it to where your first movment puts gives exactly the resulting movment you are expecting.. its hard to put down in words.. but basically it helps you be more IN TUNE with the stick and its movments.
for example, the flat spot in the center of the Axis's was throwing me off.. so
by curving the axis response in X and Y so that the flat spot area where im a likley to jerk the stick is scaled as such that the input in that area is limited, its not a dead zone though, but movments in that area are scaled down and heavily dampened , so as i ham fist my through that area, the aircraft does not dance and jig all over the sky.
Unlike AH you can Dampen very specific areas of movment, insted of dampening the entire thing alot, or little you can dampen just the center but leave the outer areas of the axis crisp, or vice versa.
the result being that when I clunk across it, it remains smooth in game.
I did some testing via drone blasting and the results are very positive.
ive now set all my AH stick settings to scaling and dampening off, and put the deadbands to 0. I feel it will be easier to make all adjustments to the stick in the cougar panel, instead of adjusting it both in game and in its propriatory software.
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With the stock gimbals I turned the deabands off in the Cougar Control Panel. I also have all the AH sliders to max, and control the scaling with the Cougar axis profiles. I can change the curves on the fly.
The U2 NXT will eliminate the flat spot. It moves smoothly through the axis centers.
The programming is very good. You can just set it up entirely from AH. But you have a lot of neat features if you create a joystick program. It can do logic, so you can set it up just about any way you want. For example, I wish the films would end at the end of the flight. AH will not do it so I programmed the Cougar to do it. The other nice feature is the Cougar Trim. Say you lost a wing, you trim it to the max but you still have to hold the stick off center. Just press a button, then center the stick.
Foxy is a well done utility. If you have any questions, the guy who wrote it will answer questions on Cougar World.
If anyone is interested, here is some info on my modifications, pictures, and downloads for my joystick programs for AH and FSX.
http://webpages.charter.net/davegun/Cougar.htm
Gunner
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how much is the U2 NXT gimbal setup anyway?
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Hope yer sitt'n down....
I just priced both the U2 NXT gimble and the hall sensors.
The sensors run about $100.00 US, which isn't that bad. The gimbles run $422.00 US approximately, which is Wery Wery Expensive!
I've heard, and Gunner can confirm or deny, that it turns a cougar into something just shy of absolutely incredible...
Correct me if I'm wrong Gunner...
Wabbit
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Originally posted by wabbit
Hope yer sitt'n down....
I just priced both the U2 NXT gimble and the hall sensors.
The sensors run about $100.00 US, which isn't that bad. The gimbles run $422.00 US approximately, which is Wery Wery Expensive!
I've heard, and Gunner can confirm or deny, that it turns a cougar into something just shy of absolutely incredible...
Correct me if I'm wrong Gunner...
Wabbit
:eek: :lol
Sorry...had to do it. :)
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JESUS, so, all totle im looking at a shade under a grand huh? well thats not to bad I guess..
LOL! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I said it isn't for everyone :) I used it stock for several years. I upgraded to the Hall Sensors first, then did the gimbals on the next upgrade.
Gunner
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REVIEW UPDATE #3:
Well Ive have some more stick time and it I am really starting to love this thing. I just had to get used to the resistance and movement characteristics and now everything is ahead full steam..
I wish I could tell You more about Foxy and such and more towards the software side, but the fact of the matter is Ive accomplished all my Axis and button mapping needs in game aside from setting the curve in the cougar control panel.
I used some SLEEK (dow33 silicone grease derivative) to grease the gimbals and that made the reisstance less (though still very hich compared to the X52) and smoothed things out a bit in the transition areas.
so far so good.
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Originally posted by GunnerCAF
I said it isn't for everyone :) I used it stock for several years. I upgraded to the Hall Sensors first, then did the gimbals on the next upgrade.
Gunner
I see myself eventually doung the U2, but probably not untill something needs replacing, gimbal wear or such.
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I'm currently saving up to get both mods myself, and my squaddie is planning on getting them also.
Hopefully inside of a month, I should be ordering them.
Wabbit
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The gimbals mod has been on my savings and shopping list for a while. I have the sensors sitting in a package waiting on the gimbals to go with them. I should have it finished by the summer. The only reason I haven't gone ahead with it personally is because of having 3 kids and almost no time to mess around with my stick anymore.
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Been using a Cougar for a little over a year with NXT 2 mod. with Hall sensors. Would never go back. Yes it is expensive but if you can afford it there is nothing better out there.
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Everything is set with Ian to get my U2NXT. I'm just waiting to hear from Cub Pilot for the Hall sensors.
I should have my Mods sometime in February.
Wabbit
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UPDATE:
Well ive had time to put even more use on the Cougar and am now totally used to it, and i LOVE IT..
I had a strange issue with the cougar drivers/calibration software though.
for some reason.. if I opened it and did nothing else (or anything) and clsoed it.. it would throw off windows and thus AHs calibration..
in such that it would more or less lessen the throw.. i.e. moving the stick 3/4 of its travel in a direction would put you at 100% that direction/input in-game.. which made for spastic movment obviousley, so I would have to recalibrate in-game'
finally i just un-installed all the software that came with the cougar, i wasnt using it for anything, and the above mentioned issue got old.
so in short, so far so good..
(http://pages.suddenlink.net/ja001son/nuttpit.jpg)
:D
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this isnt a thread hi-jack, but thats a fine look P-47(D-40 by the looks of it;) ) cockpit!
i know you didnt want to compare the cougar vs. the x-52, but what are the prices between the two????
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COUGAR COST MOAR!!
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My Cougar Review, 1 1/2 years later....
Still rocks. Still works the same as the day I got it.. except...
The right index finger button on the upper right of the joystick falls out.
The left index finger hat switch (for radios I believe?) broke off completely.
Other than the abuse I put on it, still works like a champ. I don't even mess with the software.
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My Cougar came 2 days ago. And an evening delivery at that. Day 1 was tough, I took it apart to check the grease (which it actually had) and I didn't correctly fit the plug back in. SO the throttle worked fine but every HAT and switch on the stick did not. Got fed up and went to bed. Next day did a ton of reading, got home from work, fixed the plug and off we went.
Like you Wingnutt I am not using the Control Panel or Foxy for anything. But in the future I will definitely start programming it for more functionality. At this time though I am getting used to the HOTAS system. I still reach for the keyboard. Other then to type I don't really need to use it.
The biggest issue I am having so far is relearning the "correct" way to hold the stick. It needs to be held right. I need to figure out a way to lower it off the desk.
I can see why mod'ing it would be wanted. Not a fan of the gimbles movements. But I just sprang for the system and any mods will be a ways away.
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Hey LLogann,
I love my Cougar. I'm in the process of springing for the U2NXT and Hall Sensors, along with Jarbo. Should have them by the middle or end of February.
I use foxy to program my Cougar and love it. Foxy has a built-in tutorial that will walk you through programming it as you do the actual programming. Works Great!
Now I'm looking hard into the Simped/Vario F16/C or F16/USB Rudders.
Soon I'll be completely broke, but I'll be a wery wery happy Wabbit...
Wabbit