Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Films and Screenshots => Topic started by: croduh on January 03, 2008, 07:11:32 AM
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(http://mighty8thaf.preller.us/albums/446thBG/WWII_ETO_448th_BG_Lt_Mains_B_24.jpg)
R4M rocket from a 262 ripped this one apart!
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Speechless.:(
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wow.
waist gunners must have had it rough...
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Are you sure it was the R4M rockets?
I read that it was just the 4 x 30mm cannon, as I have seen this image before.
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Isn't that the waist gunner flying close right to the tail??
amazing pic!!
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I don't mean to sound calloused, but it looks fake for many reasons. Photochop of some IL2 screenshot, perhaps? I don't know. Just doesn't look real to me.
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I just took the photo from an another forum, where guys have proven that it's not fake although it does looks very unreal at first glance;)
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Take from this book, I think.
Pg. 46, direct flack 88 hit.
http://www.amazon.ca/Gun-Camera-World-War-Photography/dp/0760310130 (http://www.amazon.ca/Gun-Camera-World-War-Photography/dp/0760310130)
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Nope, not a flak hit.
Me262s reached Liberators of 20th Wing as they made for jet airfield targets on 4 April 1945. Three 448th BG aircraft were lost. This one was torn completely in half.
"Lt. Robert Mains was a pilot of a replacement crew that joined the 448th 714th Sq in Sep 44.
Lt. Robert L. Mains (P) Lt. Allen L. Lake (CP)
Lt. John B. Hankin Jr (N)
Lt. Jon W Johnson (B)
Cpl Charles E Culp Jr Cpl Harry G. Allen
Cpl Charles H Daman
Cpl Frank S Merkovich
Sgt. Antonio Munoz Jr
Cpl Anthony C Villari
were the crew members.
ED CHU was a tailgunner in the 448th and saw Charlies plane go downand thought for sure no-one survived. But fortunately for Chuck he was able to jump out of the bomb bay doors and get his chute to open about 2000ft above ground close but a safe landing even though he was captured by enemy forces. The surviving member was Charles E Cupp Jr."
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When you see your tail gunner infront of you, you know you have a problem. Musta been one heck of a shot! Rockets aren't easy to aim at bombers in AH2, so in real life....
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Originally posted by Latrobe
Musta been one heck of a shot! Rockets aren't easy to aim at bombers in AH2, so in real life....
The R4M are of a different kind than the ones we have in AH2. They had a trajectory very much comparable with the 30mm MK108 and used the same sight. Also they were shot in volleys of 24, which has a more "shotgun" effect.
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Originally posted by Lusche
The R4M are of a different kind than the ones we have in AH2. They had a trajectory very much comparable with the 30mm MK108 and used the same sight. Also they were shot in volleys of 24, which has a more "shotgun" effect.
They launched all at once?
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Originally posted by Xasthur
They launched all at once?
Yup. Or better said in four volleys of 6 rockets each, with a less than 0.1 second interval.
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Well known photo. Horrific. Sad to think folks are dying at that instant :(
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If ever modeled in AH I'm sure we'd get to fire them off 1 at a time. Look at all other rockets. Most were hard-wired to fire 2 at a time. In AH you can fire however many you want.
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Well known photo. Horrific. Sad to think folks are dying at that instant
So very true...out of the 10 crew, only 2 lived. So although an amazing
shot it is still pretty horrific.
Now back to amazing photo's...
(http://northstargallery.com/Aircraft/B17/historical/5.jpg)
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(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii275/zoozoo13/b17nosecrash.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii275/zoozoo13/b17.jpg)
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Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Take from this book, I think.
Pg. 46, direct flack 88 hit.
http://www.amazon.ca/Gun-Camera-World-War-Photography/dp/0760310130 (http://www.amazon.ca/Gun-Camera-World-War-Photography/dp/0760310130)
If it got hit by flak, it looks like this woulda been taken very near the time of hit seeing as how they're both still very close together (front end still has engines rolling so it's still getting push while tail is loosing airspeed due to it's position (near vertical it looks) causeing high wind resistance) wouldn't there still be the black flak smoke?
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You could say the same for the R4M rockets, as they're HE too, I would expect.
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From pages 220 - 221 in Janes: Battles With the Luftwaffe, there is a double page spread of this picture. The caption reads: -
"On 4 April 1945 when Me 262s of III/JG7 attacked the American Formations, Lt Fritz Muller shot down Trouble N Mind of the 448th BG, flown by Capt John M Ray and Lt Rudolf Rademacher shot down 44-50838 of the 448th BG, piloted by Robert Mains, pictured. Only one man survived aboard Mains' ship and six parachuted safely from Ray's. The deadly R4M folding-fin air-to-air missiles were mounted on wooden racks beneath the outer wing of the Me 262. They could be fired in salvoes or ripple fired in waves. One hit was normally enough to destroy a four engined bomber. Rademacher is reported to have destroyed 24 aircraft flying Me 262s and had a grand total of 126 victories"
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Must be a gun camera frame from the 262.
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No, the photo was shot from another b24.
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I agree with this picture; amazing and definetly good reminder of the horrors of war.
I'm pretty sure that is one of the gunners just right of the tail; if so, hopefully he was already dead or was by the time he hit the earth
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I believe that is a photo of one of 2 B24's Adolf galland shot down with R4m Rockets, in in his book one of his last few air engagements he came from high and above and launched all 24 R4m rockets and hit a PAIR of b24's in one pass, I'll go back and check the dates and time of when this happen, but I believe that image is of one of the B24's going down (not entirely sure will check)
Yeah he hit 2 B24's in one pass, he was chased away by mustangs shortly after, but I do recall one of the P51 pilots later on stating he watched the "262 dive on a formation and let loose some kind of rockets, watching in horror as 2 blew up on impact"
French ace Pierre Clostermann notes in his book The Big Show that in March 1945, six R4M-armed Me 262s flying out of the Oberammergau flight test center and led by Luftwaffe General Gordon Gollob claimed to have shot down fourteen B-17s in a mission.
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Originally posted by Adonai
I believe that is a photo of one of 2 B24's Adolf galland shot down with R4m Rockets, in in his book one of his last few air engagements he came from high and above and launched all 24 R4m rockets and hit a PAIR of b24's in one pass,
Those were B-26's IIRC.
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Speaking of "horrific snapshot in time" photos.
(http://80thfs.homestead.com/post-2-1108231134.jpg)
Something tells me thats a split second before things got ugly.
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That would suk on so many levels I can't even imagine.
Wow.
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On the bright side, soft farmlands were better than tree-filled areas. It may have been hell, but that one could have had survivors. The one missing its tail? Far worse off.
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Originally posted by Treize69
Speaking of "horrific snapshot in time" photos.
(http://80thfs.homestead.com/post-2-1108231134.jpg)
Something tells me thats a split second before things got ugly.
Was that one of those low flying B-24s from the Ploesti raid? :noid
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Originally posted by Furball
Those were B-26's IIRC.
That rings a bell with me, too.
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wow
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Was that one of those low flying B-24s from the Ploesti raid? :noid
Its from the Romaian forums, but its a bare-metal Lib with a nose turret, so I doubt it.
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Originally posted by Krusty
On the bright side, soft farmlands were better than tree-filled areas. It may have been hell, but that one could have had survivors. The one missing its tail? Far worse off.
Don't matter in this case....the right wing is digging in and this sucker is going to cartwheel. Looks like it probably ended up a no survivors kind of crash.