Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Films and Screenshots => Topic started by: croduh on January 03, 2008, 07:11:32 AM

Title: Incredible photo
Post by: croduh on January 03, 2008, 07:11:32 AM
(http://mighty8thaf.preller.us/albums/446thBG/WWII_ETO_448th_BG_Lt_Mains_B_24.jpg)


R4M rocket from a 262 ripped this one apart!
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: thndregg on January 03, 2008, 07:46:38 AM
Speechless.:(
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: B@tfinkV on January 03, 2008, 07:49:43 AM
wow.

waist gunners must have had it rough...
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Xasthur on January 03, 2008, 09:11:09 AM
Are you sure it was the R4M rockets?

I read that it was just the 4 x 30mm cannon, as I have seen this image before.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: manurin on January 03, 2008, 09:19:53 AM
Isn't that the waist gunner flying close right to the tail??

amazing pic!!
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Krusty on January 03, 2008, 09:31:03 AM
I don't mean to sound calloused, but it looks fake for many reasons. Photochop of some IL2 screenshot, perhaps? I don't know. Just doesn't look real to me.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: croduh on January 03, 2008, 10:11:10 AM
I just took the photo from an another forum, where guys have proven that it's not fake although it does looks very unreal at first glance;)
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: DarkglamJG52 on January 03, 2008, 10:15:55 AM
Take from this book, I think.

Pg. 46, direct flack 88 hit.

http://www.amazon.ca/Gun-Camera-World-War-Photography/dp/0760310130 (http://www.amazon.ca/Gun-Camera-World-War-Photography/dp/0760310130)
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: croduh on January 03, 2008, 10:39:58 AM
Nope, not a flak hit.
Me262s reached Liberators of 20th Wing as they made for jet airfield targets on 4 April 1945. Three 448th BG aircraft were lost. This one was torn completely in half.

"Lt. Robert Mains was a pilot of a replacement crew that joined the 448th 714th Sq in Sep 44.
Lt. Robert L. Mains (P) Lt. Allen L. Lake (CP)
Lt. John B. Hankin Jr (N)
Lt. Jon W Johnson (B)
Cpl Charles E Culp Jr Cpl Harry G. Allen
Cpl Charles H Daman
Cpl Frank S Merkovich
Sgt. Antonio Munoz Jr
Cpl Anthony C Villari
were the crew members.

ED CHU was a tailgunner in the 448th and saw Charlies plane go downand thought for sure no-one survived. But fortunately for Chuck he was able to jump out of the bomb bay doors and get his chute to open about 2000ft above ground close but a safe landing even though he was captured by enemy forces. The surviving member was Charles E Cupp Jr."
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Latrobe on January 03, 2008, 10:55:15 AM
When you see your tail gunner infront of you, you know you have a problem. Musta been one heck of a shot! Rockets aren't easy to aim at bombers in AH2, so in real life....
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Lusche on January 03, 2008, 12:00:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Latrobe
Musta been one heck of a shot! Rockets aren't easy to aim at bombers in AH2, so in real life....


The R4M are of a different kind than the ones we have in AH2. They had a trajectory very much comparable  with the 30mm MK108 and used the same sight. Also they were shot in volleys of 24, which has a more "shotgun" effect.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Xasthur on January 03, 2008, 09:18:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
The R4M are of a different kind than the ones we have in AH2. They had a trajectory very much comparable  with the 30mm MK108 and used the same sight. Also they were shot in volleys of 24, which has a more "shotgun" effect.


They launched all at once?
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Lusche on January 03, 2008, 09:48:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Xasthur
They launched all at once?


Yup. Or better said in four volleys of 6 rockets each, with a less than 0.1 second interval.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Guppy35 on January 04, 2008, 03:09:59 AM
Well known photo.  Horrific.  Sad to think folks are dying at that instant :(
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Krusty on January 04, 2008, 09:09:36 AM
If ever modeled in AH I'm sure we'd get to fire them off 1 at a time. Look at all other rockets. Most were hard-wired to fire 2 at a time. In AH you can fire however many you want.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: OntosMk1 on January 04, 2008, 04:23:06 PM
Quote
Well known photo. Horrific. Sad to think folks are dying at that instant


So very true...out of the 10 crew, only 2 lived. So although an amazing
shot it is still pretty horrific.

Now back to amazing photo's...
(http://northstargallery.com/Aircraft/B17/historical/5.jpg)
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: zoozoo on January 04, 2008, 09:17:11 PM
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii275/zoozoo13/b17nosecrash.jpg)


(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii275/zoozoo13/b17.jpg)
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: trigger2 on January 05, 2008, 03:09:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DarkglamJG52
Take from this book, I think.

Pg. 46, direct flack 88 hit.

http://www.amazon.ca/Gun-Camera-World-War-Photography/dp/0760310130 (http://www.amazon.ca/Gun-Camera-World-War-Photography/dp/0760310130)




If it got hit by flak, it looks like this woulda been taken very near the time of hit seeing as how they're both still very close together (front end still has engines rolling so it's still getting push while tail is loosing airspeed due to it's position (near vertical it looks) causeing high wind resistance) wouldn't there still be the black flak smoke?
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Xasthur on January 05, 2008, 05:09:06 AM
You could say the same for the R4M rockets, as they're HE too, I would expect.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Furball on January 05, 2008, 05:59:08 AM
From pages 220 - 221 in Janes: Battles With the Luftwaffe, there is a double page spread of this picture.  The caption reads: -

"On 4 April 1945 when Me 262s of III/JG7 attacked the American Formations, Lt Fritz Muller shot down Trouble N Mind of the 448th BG, flown by Capt John M Ray and Lt Rudolf Rademacher shot down 44-50838 of the 448th BG, piloted by Robert Mains, pictured.  Only one man survived aboard Mains' ship and six parachuted safely from Ray's.  The deadly R4M folding-fin air-to-air missiles were mounted on wooden racks beneath the outer wing of the Me 262.  They could be fired in salvoes or ripple fired in waves.  One hit was normally enough to destroy a four engined bomber.  Rademacher is reported to have destroyed 24 aircraft flying Me 262s and had a grand total of 126 victories"
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Viking on January 05, 2008, 10:14:42 AM
Must be a gun camera frame from the 262.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: croduh on January 05, 2008, 10:23:21 AM
No, the photo was shot from another b24.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: RoGenT on January 06, 2008, 04:43:58 PM
I agree with this picture; amazing and definetly good reminder of the horrors of war.

I'm pretty sure that is one of the gunners just right of the tail; if so, hopefully he was already dead or was by the time he hit the earth
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Adonai on January 07, 2008, 08:46:13 AM
I believe that is a photo of one of 2 B24's Adolf galland shot down with R4m Rockets, in in his book one of his last few air engagements he came from high and above and launched all 24 R4m rockets and hit a PAIR of b24's in one pass, I'll go back and check the dates and time of when this happen, but I believe that image is of one of the B24's going down (not entirely sure will check)

Yeah he hit 2 B24's in one pass, he was chased away by mustangs shortly after, but I do recall one of the P51 pilots later on stating he watched the "262 dive on a formation and let loose some kind of rockets, watching in horror as 2 blew up on impact"

French ace Pierre Clostermann notes in his book The Big Show that in March 1945, six R4M-armed Me 262s flying out of the Oberammergau flight test center and led by Luftwaffe General Gordon Gollob claimed to have shot down fourteen B-17s in a mission.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Furball on January 07, 2008, 12:22:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Adonai
I believe that is a photo of one of 2 B24's Adolf galland shot down with R4m Rockets, in in his book one of his last few air engagements he came from high and above and launched all 24 R4m rockets and hit a PAIR of b24's in one pass,  

Those were B-26's IIRC.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Treize69 on January 07, 2008, 12:35:47 PM
Speaking of "horrific snapshot in time" photos.

(http://80thfs.homestead.com/post-2-1108231134.jpg)

Something tells me thats a split second before things got ugly.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: RedTop on January 07, 2008, 04:17:55 PM
That would suk on so many levels I can't even imagine.

Wow.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Krusty on January 07, 2008, 04:26:56 PM
On the bright side, soft farmlands were better than tree-filled areas. It may have been hell, but that one could have had survivors. The one missing its tail? Far worse off.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Fencer51 on January 07, 2008, 05:16:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Treize69
Speaking of "horrific snapshot in time" photos.

(http://80thfs.homestead.com/post-2-1108231134.jpg)

Something tells me thats a split second before things got ugly.


Was that one of those low flying B-24s from the Ploesti raid? :noid
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Xasthur on January 07, 2008, 07:58:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Those were B-26's IIRC.


That rings a bell with me, too.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: 1Ganger on January 09, 2008, 04:30:35 PM
wow
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Treize69 on January 09, 2008, 04:37:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51
Was that one of those low flying B-24s from the Ploesti raid? :noid


Its from the Romaian forums, but its a bare-metal Lib with a nose turret, so I doubt it.
Title: Incredible photo
Post by: Shaky on January 13, 2008, 12:34:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
On the bright side, soft farmlands were better than tree-filled areas. It may have been hell, but that one could have had survivors. The one missing its tail? Far worse off.


Don't matter in this case....the right wing is digging in and this sucker is going to cartwheel. Looks like it probably ended up a no survivors kind of crash.