Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: FX1 on January 04, 2008, 01:20:47 PM
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Well we needed a new car and i cant stand a gas bill of over $400 a month. My brother had one of the first prius in Texas when they came out. He has said nothing but good things about the car so we just went ahead a purchased one last week. After a week of driving it all i can say is that its one hell of a great ride. Averaged 50.2 mpg on the first tank.
Only problem is that i am going to need to fix the ranch road so that i dont bottom out. I cant wait to go to the ranch and it will only cost me $12 instead of the $48 that it would normally cost. Toyota is coming out with a truck hybrid that i am going to keep my eye on.
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There are a good half dozen of them here in the parking lot where I work.
It's kinda cool to park next to one as the owner is getting in/out and gunning the LS1 a bit before I turn it off.
They are definitely getting more and more prevailant around here.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
There are a good half dozen of them here in the parking lot where I work.
It's kinda cool to park next to one as the owner is getting in/out and gunning the LS1 a bit before I turn it off.
They are definitely getting more and more prevailant around here.
out of 7130 post, is there one where you don't try to "one up" by mentioning you drive a camero?
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I can not hear or read the name "Prius" without thinking about the Jeff Dunham routines.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
It's kinda cool to park next to one as the owner is getting in/out and gunning the LS1 a bit before I turn it off.
Damn... that must make them really wish they could afford a Camaro...
Wait, aren't Prius' worth more than most Camaros??
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Originally posted by FX1
I cant wait to go to the ranch and it will only cost me $12 instead of the $48 that it would normally cost.
Pink sweetheart is that much cheaper than gasoline? :confused:
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I was all ready to make fun of you for "helping the environment", but I see that you are only trying to save gas money... Oh well. :)
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Originally posted by jhookt
out of 7130 post, is there one where you don't try to "one up" by mentioning you drive a camero?
No.
And it's "Camaro".
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Top Gear - Toyota Prius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmG05AtNVtM)
Says it all, I think :)
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Originally posted by Furball
Damn... that must make them really wish they could afford a Camaro...
Wait, aren't Prius' worth more than most Camaros??
Probably so, I haven't had the notion to price a Prius.
Just about all the Prius drivers where I work are bean counters.
You do the math.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Probably so, I haven't had the notion to price a Prius.
Just about all the Prius drivers where I work are bean counters.
You do the math.
That's like saying all Camaro drivers have mullets...
damn I geuss you are right.
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You work for Heinz?
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Originally posted by indy007
That's like saying all Camaro drivers have mullets...
damn I geuss you are right.
I wasn't implying, I am saying, the Prius drivers here are the corporate accountants.
Fubar - No, not Heinz. I wish though. I really dig on their ketchup.
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Originally posted by Shaky
Top Gear - Toyota Prius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmG05AtNVtM)
Says it all, I think :)
hehe all I hear about them is how they get recalled :eek:
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Let me be the first to say, HEY! Nice Prenus. :D
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So what does your husband drive?
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Congrats! My neighbors wife bought one a month ago. She really likes it.
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Curb Your Enthusiasm. Nah, it's okay. Hopefully someday we'll all be driving somethings other than fossil foolers.
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Originally posted by FX1
Well we needed a new car and i cant stand a gas bill of over $400 a month. My brother had one of the first prius in Texas when they came out. He has said nothing but good things about the car so we just went ahead a purchased one last week. After a week of driving it all i can say is that its one hell of a great ride. Averaged 50.2 mpg on the first tank.
Only problem is that i am going to need to fix the ranch road so that i dont bottom out. I cant wait to go to the ranch and it will only cost me $12 instead of the $48 that it would normally cost. Toyota is coming out with a truck hybrid that i am going to keep my eye on.
I went to Austin the begining of last year to look at real estate, my realitor had one. It did get great gas milage and seemed like a ok car, but they are made for city driving that's for sure. Wasn't a whole lot of suspension travel in it.
It's not really my cup of tea but I could understand the reasonsbehind getting on.
On the flip side I do like this one... http://www.teslamotors.com/
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I'll crush your Prius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those things are nothing but a speed bump for my truck. Of course my truck only gets around 13mpg but still......when they make a full size hybrid truck that has all the power my current one has I'll look into one though.
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Originally posted by crockett
On the flip side I do like this one... http://www.teslamotors.com/
Cool car, but it's turned into vaporware :(
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Originally posted by Shaky
Top Gear - Toyota Prius (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmG05AtNVtM)
Says it all, I think :)
No, it does not by any means say it all. In fact, it is quite biased and unfair.
Yes, there are higher mileage diesel small cars available in Europe. But, here in the USA, none of those vehicles are available for sale. So the Prius is easily the most fuel efficient car available in the USA. Period.
Secondly, the Prius is a mid-sized car. It is NOT a small car. It has fantastic rear seat legroom, that no compact car can match. And with the backs seats down, cargo room is huge, as you can see here in my Prius:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/family%20friends/prius_hatch_small.jpg)
So comparing it to small compacts is not at all a fair comparison. The Prius has fantastic interior room, and is very comfortable to take on long trips, unlike small compacts.
Finally, the high price mentioned in this video does not apply to the market here in the USA. He quoted a price that comes to the equivalent of $34,000 US. Toyota lowered the price of the Prius here in the USA significantly a year ago, and one can now buy a very well equipped Prius for $22,000.
And his comments about the car being slow are nonsense. I got a ticket in mine for doing 75 mph in a 55 mph zone last year, and I had no idea I was going so fast, as the ride was so very smooth and quiet.
Finally, Consumer Reports gives the Prius top scores for reliability, quality, and owner satisfaction. No Ford or Chevy comes remotely close.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by SIG220
And his comments about the car being slow are nonsense. I got a ticket in mine for doing 75 mph in a 55 mph zone last year, and I had no idea I was going so fast, as the ride was so very smooth and quiet.
SIG 220
Not paying attention while putting on makeup?
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Originally posted by SIG220
And his comments about the car being slow are nonsense. I got a ticket in mine for doing 75 mph in a 55 mph zone last year, and I had no idea I was going so fast, as the ride was so very smooth and quiet.
SIG 220
Quick and fast are separate entities.
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Wait until you have to replace the battery.....
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Originally posted by Megalodon
hehe all I hear about them is how they get recalled :eek:
That remark is so totally untrue, that it is indeed humorous to read.
Prius recalls have been extremely few. Toyota stands behind their cars much more so than American companies do, to the point that they actually don't even have to be pressured into doing recalls.
As I said in my other post, the reliability and quality record of the Prius is something that the vast majority of other cars cannot come close to matching.
There have been Zero recalls on my 2007 model Prius so far, even though the 2008 model has been out for a few months now.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by Hoarach
Wait until you have to replace the battery.....
There is a better chance that the battery will outlast the life of the car. 150k in testing. Besides, the first thing to go is usually the connectors, and technicians have now been trained to replace those rather than the more expensive alternative which is a complete battery replacement.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Not paying attention while putting on makeup?
No, my son was in town visiting me for Father's Day, and we were talking about the shotgun shooting course that we were traveling to. I see my son so little due to us living in different states, that I usually try to make the most out of every minute with him.
Here is a photo taken of us together on the range, later that day:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/us_online.jpg)
I am the one holding the Beretta Extrema 12 gauge Super Magnum.
SIG 220
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One of the reviews i read on the Prius indicated their acceleration was much to be desired.
Another news story disputed the great mileage they get, with most getting low 30s per gallon.
Interesting to see your mileage results.
Well Diablo, nice to see some people out there still feel the world judges them based on what they drive :)
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Originally posted by Bronk
Quick and fast are separate entities.
It is not a sports car. Comparing it to any sporty car is quite unfair.
The electric engine gives it tremendous Torque. It accelerates extremely well in city traffic. Very nimble to drive in dense traffic.
You need to go drive one.
SIG 220
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My neighbor reports she is getting about 47 mpg in the city and about 41 mpg on the highway.
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Originally posted by SIG220
It is not a sports car. Comparing it to any sporty car is quite unfair.
The electric engine gives it tremendous Torque. It accelerates extremely well in city traffic. Very nimble to drive in dense traffic.
You need to go drive one.
SIG 220
With 0-60 in the teens. I'd say " tremendous torque", is a bit of a stretch.
Edit: I see no need to drive one. Econo box is an econo box. I don't care how ya spin it.
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Originally posted by LePaul
One of the reviews i read on the Prius indicated their acceleration was much to be desired.
Another news story disputed the great mileage they get, with most getting low 30s per gallon.
Interesting to see your mileage results.
Well Diablo, nice to see some people out there still feel the world judges them based on what they drive :)
You can attempt to badmouth the Prius all you want. However, the bottom line is that Prius owners universally LOVE their cars. I know one family that buys a new one every year, and gives the old car to another family member. All of their kids now drive a Prius, so I am unsure what they will do when the 2009 Prius comes out. And this is a very wealthy family that can afford to drive anything they want to.
Go to the forums on Priuschat.com:
http://priuschat.com/forums/
And you will find answers refuting all of your concerns.
SIG 220
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With gas predicted to reach $4/gal pretty soon I think the savings alone would offset any extra cost you might pay.
I LOVE/hate my Jeep. It is a great toy but it costs me $5 a day at current prices to go to work. When I work 7 days a week at times do the math.
In comparison with a prius I'd cost me about $5 a WEEK. I'd put up with the fact that it's not "fast" to save me over $100 a month in fuel costs.
For me, all it needs to do is get me from point A to point B safely.....a decent stereo to rock out to would be nice too!
I really don't care about the "image" or the "muscle" of a car that I merly travel 13 miles twice daily in.
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Originally posted by Bronk
With 0-60 in the teens. I'd say " tremendous torque", is a bit of a stretch.
Edit: I see no need to drive one. Econo box is an econo box. I don't care how ya spin it.
If you go 60 mph in dense urban traffic, you are a wreck waiting to happen.
It can do 0-40 very well. The electric engine only helps up to a certain point.
Your comment about "Econo box" shows how extremely uniformed you are about the Prius. It is not a stripped down car by any means. If you want an "Econo Box", go buy a Scion XD, Nissan Versa, or Honda Fit.
It is a really nice, well equipped mid-sized car that just happens to get the best fuel mileage of any gasoline car, because of the Hybrid Engine system.
Visit:
http://priuschat.com/forums/
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My S10 gets 75 mpg with its little Isuzu turbo-diesel.
Safer, more economical, quicker, more usable, more reliable and less "pansy-ish" than a Prius.
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Originally posted by Bronk
With 0-60 in the teens. I'd say " tremendous torque", is a bit of a stretch.
Edit: I see no need to drive one. Econo box is an econo box. I don't care how ya spin it.
the electric engine has 295 ft·lb at 0 rpm...
my dads truck has about that much torque.
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Originally posted by vorticon
the electric engine has 295 ft·lb at 0 rpm...
my dads truck has about that much torque.
Untrue. Your Dad's truck has 0 torque at 0 RPM. :)
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
I wasn't implying, I am saying, the Prius drivers here are the corporate accountants.
Fubar - No, not Heinz. I wish though. I really dig on their ketchup.
Obviously Camaro drivers cant see properly through their mullets or lack reading skills - i am not Fubar.
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Originally posted by Furball
Obviously Camaro drivers cant see properly through their mullets or lack reading skills - i am not Fubar.
Lighten up Fubar, was a joke.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
With gas predicted to reach $4/gal pretty soon I think the savings alone would offset any extra cost you might pay.
According to numerous reports, this is going to happen by sometime next month.
I shutter to think what gas prices will be like by the time this summer's driving season starts.
My other car is a very manly 2000 Nissan Pathfinder, which only gets 13 mpg in the city, and about 16 mpg on the highway. So high gas prices still affect me badly, when I take it for a drive.
Ouch!
SIG 220
P.S. -- The Prius does perform very poorly in snow, or on any unpaved roads, due to its minimal ground clearance. These situations should thus be avoided, if you drive one.
The low ground clearance does help reduce wind resistance, though. In fact, the ballistic coefficient of the Prius is as good as some rifle bullets in terms of efficiency. That is also why its shape looks a little bit like an egg.
In fact, if John Lennon was alive today, I am certain that he would drive a Prius. After all, didn't he say in one of his songs: "I am the eggman" ? :)
Leonardo DiCaprio owns THREE Priuses, by the way.
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Originally posted by SIG220
Yes, there are higher mileage diesel small cars available in Europe. But, here in the USA, none of those vehicles are available for sale. So the Prius is easily the most fuel efficient car available in the USA. Period.
It is a shame... something like an Audi A4 TDI would get ~ 50 mpg and look a whole lot better than a Prius!
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Lighten up Fubar, was a joke.
I am never anything but!
It is a common mistake, so thought i would correct it :D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Untrue. Your Dad's truck has 0 torque at 0 RPM. :)
maximum torque for the prius is about the same as the 5.2l in my dads truck.
happy now?
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Sig i wasnt badmouthing your vehicle.
A Google search on Prius mileage will bring up all sorts of articles.
Don't take my arm-chair observations as an assault on the vehicle you are so enamored with
Im quite curious how a Prius does in northern climates. I would imagine our winters are hard on batteries.
Im open to learning more about em
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Originally posted by vorticon
the electric engine has 295 ft·lb at 0 rpm...
my dads truck has about that much torque.
So it makes 256 ft lbs not turning ehh.
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Oh... and you think you have petrol prices bad??
I just got back from the petrol station and it cost £40.33 for 39.97 litres...
Which is about $80 for 10 gallons?
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my toyota corolla wagon is now over 211,000 miles and still kicking. My first car was a chevy caprice classic that i loved to death, but gas was 95 cents a gallon. The wagon gets me around 30mpg which is great. I'd like my next car to be a SR5 toyota truck from the late 90s with the v6. i also own a 1980 corvette thats in hibernation for the winter. assuming i can keep the vette forever I doubt i'll ever buy anything but Toyotas for the rest of my life. a sports car for the weekend :D , a reliable toyota for work and travel
anyways point being, i would not mind a Prius but I'd really like to see a hybrid small truck. and that toyota rules
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Originally posted by Bronk
So it makes 256 ft lbs not turning ehh.
assuming your talking about the priuses electric engine, yes. if your confused about how, go stop anything with a motor from turning...you'll still feel it pushing, even if its not revolving.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
No.
And it's "Camaro".
Was gonna stick up for you but you covered the "typo". :aok Nevermind the haters Kyle, they'll always be someone in the crowd.
<> bro
Jay
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Was gonna stick up for you but you covered the "typo". :aok Nevermind the haters Kyle, they'll always be someone in the crowd.
<> bro
Jay
<>
Thanks Jay.
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Originally posted by vorticon
assuming your talking about the priuses electric engine, yes. if your confused about how, go stop anything with a motor from turning...you'll still feel it pushing, even if its not revolving.
Anyone else scratching their head on this?
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Anyone else scratching their head on this?
"You are not alone." :)
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he is talking about a petrol engine or electric motor both have the same physical push push as before stored as potential energy if jammed to a stop and not revolving....i think....not that i know why hes is talking about this.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
he is talking about a petrol engine or electric motor both have the same physical push push as before stored as potential energy if jammed to a stop and not revolving....i think....not that i know why hes is talking about this.
Bronk seemed to be confused at an electric motor having maximum torque at 0 rpm.
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ya see, now it all makes sense :confused:
i knew bronk had to be invovled somehow
please dont make me read page 2 i skipped it
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Originally posted by SIG220
No, it does not by any means say it all. In fact, it is quite biased and unfair.
Yes, there are higher mileage diesel small cars available in Europe. But, here in the USA, none of those vehicles are available for sale. So the Prius is easily the most fuel efficient car available in the USA. Period.
You don't get BMW 5-series in the US?
Instead of a Prius (which as I have said earlier is an abomination and an insult to motoring) get a BMW 520d SE.
(http://www.edbmw.com/photos/BMW5series_front.jpg)
The new 5-series (isn't it just stunningly good looking?).
Of Course it will cost you a lot more than the Prius, but you get a lot more car for your money. A PROPER sized 1.6 ton car, 177 hp (that's about three times the Prius' power), 0-60 in 8.3 secons, top speed of 144 mph, 55.4 combined mpg (65.7 highway mpg), good build quality, excellent comfort and handling.
In addition to the high mpg, diesel is cheaper than gasoline at the pump, so the savings are greater.
Why would anyone buy a Prius? :huh
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Viking...
we wish!
For some reason, we don't get the diesel version. Probably because our diesel isn't up to snuff for quality until something like 2009 (by law)
Incidently, I hate the look of the new BMW faces, looks as though they need eye liner. :rolleyes:
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Strange ... why would your diesel be of any less quality than ours?
In any case by some strange coincidence 2009 is also the year the new 5-series is introduced. :) The data I posted is for the current model though, so the new one should be even better.
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Originally posted by Viking
You don't get BMW 5-series in the US?
Instead of a Prius (which as I have said earlier is an abomination and an insult to motoring) get a BMW 520d SE.
(http://www.edbmw.com/photos/BMW5series_front.jpg)
The new 5-series (isn't it just stunningly good looking?).
Of Course it will cost you a lot more than the Prius, but you get a lot more car for your money. A PROPER sized 1.6 ton car, 177 hp (that's about three times the Prius' power), 0-60 in 8.3 secons, top speed of 144 mph, 55.4 combined mpg (65.7 highway mpg), good build quality, excellent comfort and handling.
In addition to the high mpg, diesel is cheaper than gasoline at the pump, so the savings are greater.
Why would anyone buy a Prius? :huh
I hate repeating myself, but perhaps they would if they live in the USA, as this car is not available for sale here. Just check the BMWUSA.COM website.
The highest mileage BMW 5 series sold here gets 27 mpg highway, and costs over twice the price of the Prius.
The BMW 5 series has a lower customer satisfaction rating than the Prius in the USA, and also a far worse record for reliability. Just check ConsumerReports.Org
SIG 220
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Originally posted by Viking
You don't get BMW 5-series in the US?
In addition to the high mpg, diesel is cheaper than gasoline at the pump, so the savings are greater.
Why would anyone buy a Prius? :huh
In Texas deisel is the highest priced fuel by far. Today I saw 2.89 for regular, 2.99 for the medium, 3.09 for premium and 3.29 for deisel. Deisel hasn't been near gas prices for some time, at least two years that I can think of.
Word,
Mark
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Originally posted by Viking
Strange ... why would your diesel be of any less quality than ours?
In any case by some strange coincidence 2009 is also the year the new 5-series is introduced. :) The data I posted is for the current model though, so the new one should be even better.
Actually I got that backwards, the European diesel that is imported from the middle east does not have the tight standards that we have I got it backwards in my earlier post. Your diesel is dirtier...something we won't allow over here.
Its complicated, but it goes something like this: US Diesel regulations have been politically manipulated by California's Air Resource Board. For years, Kalifornia lobbists have managed to keep Diesels out. EPA standards play into this picture as well obviously. The new requirment for refineries to produce low sulfur diesel by 2009 is going to be a tough road. All the US refineries are old (Thanks to our Greens again, primarily the lobbists on the liberal side of the isle back in the 70's) and need new systems to comply with the new EPA standards.
There has been no new refineries are being built in the US . This means the major players have to upgrade refineries. Why won't they? Supply and demand. They can get more money for better grade diesel (a pitfall of capitalism is the "supply and demand" law of ethics)
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Never thought their would be so many Prius bangers in the forum.
I looked at the VW Jetta TDI diesl. One of my friends purchased a 07 but he is only seeing 34 mpg in the last four months. That car didn't get a good rating at all so i decided to go a different direction.
The battery has a 8 year warranty so i am not at all worried about the life spans. My brothers prius has 154k on it with a life mpg of 48. He lives in Boulder Co and drives his prius to and from Denver. He has never said anything about colder temperatures effecting the car.
My reason for purchasing this car is do to the price of gas and my driving style. I could give a rats bellybutton about a camaro or a vett. I see this car as transportation to get me around town.
I am not a environmentalist or a hippie. I don't need a fast car that's just not my thing. What i am trying to accomplish is to save some money on gas so i can blow it on my next purchase.
http://www.malibuboats.com/default.aspx?pageID=30&modelID=438&modelCategoryID=5
I have a 07 but the engine as been the biggest headache. Its been in and out of the dealership so i am trying to work out the number to purchase the vortex 8100 boat. NO i dont tow that boat with the prius (:
BTW you can have a BMW or a Camero but i bet you cant hold 15 women that cant wait to get wet... Just dont tell Bev that i said that...
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Originally posted by FX1
Never thought their would be so many Prius bangers in the forum.
I looked at the VW Jetta TDI diesl. One of my friends purchased a 07 but he is only seeing 34 mpg in the last four months. That car didn't get a good rating at all so i decided to go a different direction.
The battery has a 8 year warranty so i am not at all worried about the life spans. My brothers prius has 154k on it with a life mpg of 48. He lives in Boulder Co and drives his prius to and from Denver. He has never said anything about colder temperatures effecting the car.
My reason for purchasing this car is do to the price of gas and my driving style. I could give a rats bellybutton about a camaro or a vett. I see this car as transportation to get me around town.
I am not a environmentalist or a hippie. I don't need a fast car that's just not my thing. What i am trying to accomplish is to save some money on gas so i can blow it on my next purchase.
http://www.malibuboats.com/default.aspx?pageID=30&modelID=438&modelCategoryID=5
I have a 07 but the engine as been the biggest headache. Its been in and out of the dealership so i am trying to work out the number to purchase the vortex 8100 boat. NO i dont tow that boat with the prius (:
BTW you can have a BMW or a Camero but i bet you cant hold 15 women that cant wait to get wet... Just dont tell Bev that i said that...
Good on ya. The less dependent we are on oil (make Canada and the Middle East "3rd world status" once again) the better for the U.S. :)
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That's really strange Mark. Why would diesel be more expensive than gasoline in Texas?
If you don't get a particular car or model in the US you can simply buy it in Europe or Japan (or wherever) and have it shipped to the US for about $1000. Several shipping companies will help you with the paperwork. I do understand that it is a hassle, and warranty might be a problem, but if you aren't getting the car you really want because of stupid rules and regulations prohibiting sale in the US why not do the job yourself?
SIG220, if the BMW is too rich for your budget you can get a Prius sized Euro-box or Rice-burner for the same money. I'd rather have the BMW even if it is more expensive.
As for BMW reliability I see a lot of difference in US and European customer satisfaction. In the Top Gear survey BMW ranked 11th out of 35 with 86% customer satisfaction. Toyota ranked 7th with 88% customer satisfaction. And although 7 of the 10 most reliable cars hailed from Japan the BMW X3 topped the reliability chart. Maybe the American experience is different?
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Today at my corner store gas was $2.95 diesel $3.39.. I own a older diesel truck and sometimes its a pain to find a station that sales diesel. Sounds crazy but its tru in Texas.
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Originally posted by Furball
It is a shame... something like an Audi A4 TDI would get ~ 50 mpg and look a whole lot better than a Prius!
Nope, this is not available here either.
I guess that someone in the US government must have decided that Diesels are evil.
But tell me, what do you have against eggs??
(http://www.gumbopages.com/looka/images/prius.jpg)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Actually I got that backwards, the European diesel that is imported from the middle east does not have the tight standards that we have I got it backwards in my earlier post. Your diesel is dirtier...something we won't allow over here.
Its complicated, but it goes something like this: US Diesel regulations have been politically manipulated by California's Air Resource Board. For years, Kalifornia lobbists have managed to keep Diesels out. EPA standards play into this picture as well obviously. The new requirment for refineries to produce low sulfur diesel by 2009 is going to be a tough road. All the US refineries are old (Thanks to our Greens again, primarily the lobbists on the liberal side of the isle back in the 70's) and need new systems to comply with the new EPA standards.
There has been no new refineries are being built in the US . This means the major players have to upgrade refineries. Why won't they? Supply and demand. They can get more money for better grade diesel (a pitfall of capitalism is the "supply and demand" law of ethics)
That makes more sense. It is political/big business interference rather than a real problem. Modern European diesels (and I think the Japanese ones too) have advanced emission cleaning systems, including particle filters. If you drive a new Euro-diesel car through a typical big city the exhaust is actually cleaner then the air going into the engine. Apart from CO2 the exhaust is virtually pollution free.
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Originally posted by FX1
Today at my corner store gas was $2.95 diesel $3.39.. I own a older diesel truck and sometimes its a pain to find a station that sales diesel. Sounds crazy but its tru in Texas.
So its a supply/demand issue? Diesel is far cheaper to produce than gasoline.
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Originally posted by Viking
That's really strange Mark. Why would diesel be more expensive than gasoline in Texas?
If you don't get a particular car or model in the US you can simply buy it in Europe or Japan (or wherever) and have it shipped to the US for about $1000. Several shipping companies will help you with the paperwork. I do understand that it is a hassle, and warranty might be a problem, but if you aren't getting the car you really want because of stupid rules and regulations prohibiting sale in the US why not do the job yourself?
SIG220, if the BMW is too rich for your budget you can get a Prius sized Euro-box or Rice-burner for the same money. I'd rather have the BMW even if it is more expensive.
As for BMW reliability I see a lot of difference in US and European customer satisfaction. In the Top Gear survey BMW ranked 11th out of 35 with 86% customer satisfaction. Toyota ranked 7th with 88% customer satisfaction. And although 7 of the 10 most reliable cars hailed from Japan the BMW X3 topped the reliability chart. Maybe the American experience is different?
Toyota passed ford this year in sales.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22488803/
So yes it is much different in the states.
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Originally posted by Viking
So its a supply/demand issue? Diesel is far cheaper to produce than gasoline.
I have no idea.. I never thought in my life that i would see more $ diesel than gas and its been like that for the last two years.
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Originally posted by SIG220
Nope, this is not available here either.
I guess that someone in the US government must have decided that Diesels are evil.
But tell me, what do you have against eggs??
(http://www.gumbopages.com/looka/images/prius.jpg)
Environmentalists, who primarily vote democrat mind you. :)
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The base price for Prius is over 29000$ here in Canada, and doesn't worth it, i can get a Pontiac G6, Grand Prix ,Ford, Civic,Hyunday or other family sedan more comfortable, with 8- 10000$ less, and make the math. for 10000$, i can buy 10000 litres of gasoline here, with a fuel consumption of 7-8-9l/100km, i can run average miles for next 4-5 years ,110-130000 km, The green technology is good, but still too expensive ,
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Originally posted by Viking
That's really strange Mark. Why would diesel be more expensive than gasoline in Texas?
It is true here in Oregon as well. The price of Diesel is currently more than gasoline where I live also. Perhaps there is a conspiracy against Diesel??
Best price here right now for regular gasoline is $2.93/Gallon. For Diesel is is $3.37
Originally posted by Viking
SIG220, if the BMW is too rich for your budget you can get a Prius sized Euro-box or Rice-burner for the same money.
For only $22,000?? Sorry, but I do not want to buy one of those VW's made in Mexico.
Originally posted by Viking
As for BMW reliability I see a lot of difference in US and European customer satisfaction. In the Top Gear survey BMW ranked 11th out of 35 with 86% customer satisfaction. Toyota ranked 7th with 88% customer satisfaction. And although 7 of the 10 most reliable cars hailed from Japan the BMW X3 topped the reliability chart. Maybe the American experience is different?
I was specifically talking about Prius reliabilty and customer satisfaction. They are much higher than the average for the entire Toyota Product line.
In fact, new Toyota overall reliability has dropped recently, according to ConsumerReports.Org This is being blamed on the shifting of more production to factories in the USA, which are not yet being operated as well as the established Japanese factories. The Prius is only built in Japan, so this is not an issue for it.
I do buy some products made in Europe. Besides my 2 100% European made SIG pistols ( my third SIG only has a frame made in Germany, the rest made here in the USA ), I also own two Tikka rifles made in Finland, one Walther pistol made in Germany, a Saiga AK-47 made in Russia, one Glock made in Austria, two shotguns made by FN in Belgium, two rifles made by FN in Belgium, and 6 Beretta shotguns made in Italy.
So just over half of my entire gun collection ( including 80% of my shotguns ) comes from Europe.
I do own too many guns, I must admit. But this has been of benefit to the firearms industry in Europe. :D :D
SIG 220
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Originally posted by ghi
The base price for Prius is over 29000$ here in Canada, and doesn't worth it, i can get a Pontiac G6, Grand Prix ,Ford, Civic,Hyunday or other family sedan more comfortable, with 8- 10000$ less, and make the math. for 10000$, i can buy 10000 litres of gasoline here, with a fuel consumption of 7-8-9l/100km, i can run average miles for next 4-5 years ,110-130000 km, The green technology is good, but still too expensive ,
Correct the math does not make the pruis the best value. With the price of gas today and oil hitting over $100 a barrel i am willing to bet that gas is not going to come down. Also the prius has one of the best resale values of any car. I looked around for a used one and could find anything on the market in our area.
Also in the states we do get a tax brake. That's not the case in 2008 because the federal government decide to line their pockets with oil money.
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Sig, don't put all your bolts into that Consumer Reports bucket...it can show signs of rust in the bottom. Use many sources (JD Power, etc.) before you quote.
Consumers is good, but not god and not always right.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Sig, don't put all your bolts into that Consumer Reports bucket...it can show signs of rust in the bottom. Use many sources (JD Power, etc.) before you quote.
Consumers is good, but not god and not always right.
Especially in the Home Theater dept. They are NEVER right and laughed at in terms of their "brand favoritism".
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FX, just to let you know, I wasn't bashing the Prius in my first post, someone else read into that. What I find funny are the owners of the Prius' (Prii?) at my job. You know the type; pocket inserts, 15 year old ties, bad haircuts, mom dressed them that morning. You know, almost like engineers! :aok I just find it amusing to park next to them and see their reaction to a V8 with a Magnaflow catback being revved a bit. I'm sure they'd (the Prii) would make a better daily driver but it just wouldn't do much for my daily injection of happiness I get from my ride. More power to you though, saving money is also major happiness!
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The Prius is smurfy, slow, and kinda small, but if you like it, good for you. Why would you worry about what others think of it?
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
FX, just to let you know, I wasn't bashing the Prius in my first post, someone else read into that. What I find funny are the owners of the Prius' (Prii?) at my job. You know the type; pocket inserts, 15 year old ties, bad haircuts, mom dressed them that morning. You know, almost like engineers! :aok I just find it amusing to park next to them and see their reaction to a V8 with a Magnaflow catback being revved a bit. I'm sure they'd (the Prii) would make a better daily driver but it just wouldn't do much for my daily injection of happiness I get from my ride. More power to you though, saving money is also major happiness!
No problem
BTW i can crush any coasting record (: Beat my all time best tonight on my way to visit my parents.
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Prius and hybrid cars are nice and all, but my 8 years old Fiat Punto is still cheaper, faster, consumes less fuel and does the exact same job.
The only thing hybrids do is improve the fuel efficiency a little since they can recover some energy during breaking. Other than that, the electric motor does not save you fuel. You can get a much "greener" car by using a lighter car instead (or a bike). This will not save the earth.
btw, how do they dispose of the batteries after they are replaced? That is usually a "green" broblem.
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Lead batteries are recycled.
I would imagine there are similar technologies for the batteries that are in use for the Prius
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Well my Mercedes Benz E320 cdi gets 48mpg while delivering me with 200hp and 470nm torque. Makes a Prius look like a pretty bad deal.
The new E200cdi goes gives out 200hp and does 62mpg. :aok
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What octane level is the fuel you guys put into your Unleaded petrol engines?
I was under the impression that you Americans get lumped with piss-poor quality fuel... Low octance.
I run my car on 98 octance fuel and I get much better fuel economy out that rather than the standard, lower octance fuel.
The engines runs much more smoothly, no where near as lumpy under load at low RPMs.
Smoother acceleration, better fuel economy and less wear, if I'm not mistaken.
The fuel efficiency is a definite. I get an extra 60kms out of just over half a tank pretty comfortably.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
What octane level is the fuel you guys put into your Unleaded petrol engines?
I was under the impression that you Americans get lumped with piss-poor quality fuel... Low octance.
I run my car on 98 octance fuel and I get much better fuel economy out that rather than the standard, lower octance fuel.
The engines runs much more smoothly, no where near as lumpy under load at low RPMs.
Smoother acceleration, better fuel economy and less wear, if I'm not mistaken.
The fuel efficiency is a definite. I get an extra 60kms out of just over half a tank pretty comfortably.
In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and even deliver 98 (RON) or 100 (RON).
FWIW, I ran my own experiments, on the same exact commute, with same driving conditions. Running 92 octane (your equivelent of 95 octane) gave me no increase at all in gas mileage when compared to 87 octane in same engine.
WIth that said, high compression engines such as the M54 (BMW) require (not recommend) high octane fuel. Some motor heads on this forum can better explain why its best to run high octane fuel in those high compression engines rather than lower quality fuel. I'm pretty sure its not for mileage, but rather engine longevity.
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95 octane (US 92 octane) is the lowest grade of gasoline sold here in Norway. The reason high-compression or high-boost (turbo/blower) engines require high octane fuel is because low octane fuel will spontaneously combust due to compression heat before the spark plug ignites it. This means the fuel is ignited and pressure is increased in the cylinder before the piston is in the correct position and the engine is ready. It is called knocking, and can in worst case scenario destroy the engine. The higher the octane rating the more you can compress a fuel-air mix without it spontaneously combusting.
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the prenus is fine for people who just don't like cars very much.
I like cars. I enjoy the experiance of driving. I don't mind paying more for gas and am glad that others are creating a glut of it with their non cars.
You can watch a movie on some ipod thingie or on a big screen plasma with a sound system.. you still see the same movie. I like the big screen plasma.
I can drive my lincoln on long trips and get 23-25 mpg and be very comfy... I drive my el camino big block 6 speed daily and get 6-14 mpg but.. really enjoy the experiance.. I can drive my Healey small block and REALLY enjoy life on short trips..
If I am really broke.. if I cant drive anywhere unless it is 55 mpg... My old BMW 750 will do that and run up to freeway speeds from 0 in 5 or 6 seconds.
It is great that there are alternatives.. there have always been people who couldn't care less about cars except to get around in... they can now have what they want in the prenus. or.. a number of other cars.
I would like to see some of the euro diesels here... might make a fun little hot rod with some work.. love to see a turbo diesel mustang say. or.. dump on of the motors into an old S10 or something.
electric hot rods.. got some that will do o-60 in three of four seconds... once we get solar power for free.. might be fun.
But the prenus? I can never see myself ever wanting one. a no fun non car.
lazs
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Lazs a 55mpg would translate to 4.5 liters / 100km fuel consumption. And I happend to know that a 750 will require 10 liters in travel, 15 liters in commute which equals to 28mpg and 19mpg respectively.
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what? are you saying that my motorcycle doesn't get 55 mpg? I have no idea what all the liters gibbersh is all about.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
what? are you saying that my motorcycle doesn't get 55 mpg? I have no idea what all the liters gibbersh is all about.
lazs
Rofl you were talking about BMW motorcycle?? Model 750 is a 7-series limousine with a 5.0 liter V8 petrol engine, K75 is 750cc motorcycle. :D
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5 litre V-12. ;)
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Oh you're right, 5.4 liter V-12. I'm a Mercedes man u see.. :p
With MB 12-cyl starts with 6 liter engine.
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There's many, many ways of improving fuel economy other than resorting to hybrids.
I don't like the Prius - its fuel economy is scant reward for bland design, uninvolved driving experience and poor performance.
Diesel engines will become more prevalent in the US, but the manufacturers still have a bit of a sales job with the American public as they consider them slow dirty and noisy - much as most of Europe (outside of France) did 10 years ago. The problem with introducing them up until now has been down to legislation in States such as California and New York, plus the higher sulfur content of US diesel. The latest engines and changes to US diesel blends should see that change.
That said, after ten years of significant focus and progress on diesel technology, many European manufacturers are now turning their attention back to gas engines and there are some really interesting designs coming out from the likes of Fiat and Volkswagen. At the end of the day - gas engines will always be lighter and capable of producing more power (if not torque) for a given capacity than a diesel engine.
Of course, most of the European focus is on engine sizes smaller than many Americans will currently accept, but that's going to change as well. How would have thought the BMW MINI would have been so successful over here and you only need to look at the number of Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit/Jazz on the roads and observe the number of younger drivers in Scions to realize smaller is becoming more acceptable.
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ripley.. R75.
I would love it if we could get some of the little turbo diesel eruo rods here but.. we have much higher standards for diesel than the euros do.. we have always had much higher pollution standards. we were first with every pollution device and the euros scoffed and then got into step with us later.
If we were allowed to pollute like a your-0-peean then I would like to see some tiny diesels here. We do have big ones in pickups and such.
lazs
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So you're allowed to have big dirty diesels, but not small efficient clean ones? WTG for sanity.
As for your superior diesel quality:
"Ultra-low sulfur diesel was proposed by EPA as a new standard for the sulfur content in on-road diesel fuel sold in the United States since October 15, 2006, except for rural Alaska. California required it since September 1, 2006, and rural Alaska will transition all diesel to ULSD in 2010. This new regulation applies to all diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and distillate fuels blended with diesel for on-road use, such as kerosene, however, it does not yet apply to train locomotives, marine, or off road uses. By December 1, 2010, all highway diesel will be ULSD. Non-road diesel transitioned to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and to ULSD in 2010. Locomotive and marine diesel also transitioned to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and to ULSD in 2012. There are exemptions for small refiners of nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel that allow for 500 ppm diesel to remain in the system until 2014. After December 1, 2014 all highway, nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel produced and imported will be ULSD.
The EPA mandated the use of ULSD fuel in model year 2007 and newer highway diesel fuel engines equipped with advanced emission control systems that require the new fuel. These advanced emission control technologies will be required for marine diesel engines in 2014 and for locomotives in 2015.
The allowable sulfur content for ULSD (15 ppm) is much lower than the previous U.S. on-highway standard for low sulfur diesel (LSD, 500 ppm), which not only reduces emissions of sulfur compounds (blamed for acid rain), but also allows advanced emission control systems to be fitted that would otherwise be poisoned by these compounds. These systems can greatly reduce emissions of oxides of nitrogen and particulate matter.
Because this grade of fuel is comparable to European grades and engines will no longer have to be redesigned to cope with higher sulfur content and may use advanced emissions control systems which can be damaged by sulfur, the standard may increase the availability of diesel-fueled passenger cars in the U.S. European diesels are much more popular with buyers than those available in the U.S."
So Ripsnort was right in his first assumption: European diesel engines are not sold in the US because of your poor diesel quality, but new US regulations will remedy that within a year or two.
Edit: This may also explain why diesel has become more expensive in the US.
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Why were you PNG'd again Gsholz?
Edit: Aww you logged without answering. Typical.
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You seem to have something against players that make new accounts/avatars/whatever. Why is that?
Edit: Aww you logged without answering. Typical.
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Originally posted by Viking
You seem to have something against players that make new accounts/avatars/whatever. Why is that?
New look same PNG personality might have something to do with it.;)
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I know he doesn't like me, but that wasn't the question. He seems to be on what Skuzzy referred to as a "witch hunt".
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Originally posted by lazs2
ripley.. R75.
I would love it if we could get some of the little turbo diesel eruo rods here but.. we have much higher standards for diesel than the euros do.. we have always had much higher pollution standards. we were first with every pollution device and the euros scoffed and then got into step with us later.
If we were allowed to pollute like a your-0-peean then I would like to see some tiny diesels here. We do have big ones in pickups and such.
lazs
Hmm Mercedes Benz bluetec diesels are approved for California regs.. You should be able to get them.
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Hes thaving the enviroment! Thtop dithing the Prius you thilly billys.
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Originally posted by SIG220
Yes, there are higher mileage diesel small cars available in Europe. But, here in the USA, none of those vehicles are available for sale. So the Prius is easily the most fuel efficient car available in the USA. Period.
Heck - my wifes' 99 VW Jetta TDI (Diesel) gets 45 Mpg Highway, and 40 in the City, and has been doing it for the last 8 years. You can get TDI in Jettas and Beetles (and probably you'll see it in the new Rabbits too) - they got plenty of power, and they all get great mileage. If you want to go way green, run em on vegediesel.
Beats spending $3K on a battery pack replacement and wondering where all those dead NiMH batteries are going if you ask me.
EagleDNY
$.02
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I haven't met that many but so far... I find that I don't like prenus owners too much.
I like cars.. they don't.
lazs
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
FWIW, I ran my own experiments, on the same exact commute, with same driving conditions. Running 92 octane (your equivelent of 95 octane) gave me no increase at all in gas mileage when compared to 87 octane in same engine.
That's odd, I noticed the opposite. A noticable increase in mileage and a large increase in engine performance.
Much quicker off the mark, no bogging down under high load at low RPMs. If nothing else that alone is reason enough to make the switch to higher octane fuels, in my opinion.
For the record, I drive a 1995 Ford 4.0L 6 cylinder with no engine modifications.
Made in Australia but it is strange that you noticed no difference. What sort of car/enginge are you running your tests in?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I haven't met that many but so far... I find that I don't like prenus owners too much.
I like cars.. they don't.
lazs
Lazs have you ever met someone you liked?
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Ignition timing affects sensibility to octane. If you have late timing low octane is fine. If you have early timing you need high octane fuel. Most older cars have a selection for high or low octane fuel. The selection effectively adjusts the ignition timing.
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
Heck - my wifes' 99 VW Jetta TDI (Diesel) gets 45 Mpg Highway, and 40 in the City, and has been doing it for the last 8 years. You can get TDI in Jettas and Beetles (and probably you'll see it in the new Rabbits too) - they got plenty of power, and they all get great mileage. If you want to go way green, run em on vegediesel.
Beats spending $3K on a battery pack replacement and wondering where all those dead NiMH batteries are going if you ask me.
EagleDNY
$.02
There is no Jetta TDI Diesel available for sale on the Volkswagen of America website. In fact, there are no Diesel cars shown on their website for any of their different models.
So I must dispute your claim that such as car is currently available for sale here in the USA. There is no evidence to show that it is being imported here now.
A lot of the VW's being sold in North America are now being built at their plant in Puebla, Mexico. My daughter briefly drove a New Bettle made there, and it was an absolute lemon. I would not drive one of these Puebla made cars even if it was given to me for free. They are even manufacturing engines and transmissions there now.
I would be open to owning and driving a high mileage diesel car. But certainly not if it was made in Mexico.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by FX1
BTW you can have a BMW or a Camero but i bet you cant hold 15 women that cant wait to get wet... Just dont tell Bev that i said that...
But what does one do out on a boat with 15 wet women???
You must at least enjoy the view, no doubt! :aok
SIG 220
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Mercedes Benz USA (http://www.mbusa.com/campaigns/alternative-fuels/index.do)
For some diesel power
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"Lazs have you ever met someone you liked?"
all the time.. they just don't believe in "sensible gun control" or "man made global warming" or extra rights and.. they don't drive a prenus.
lazs
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Originally posted by FX1
Got a prius
Thanks for screwing the environment :aok
The Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.
“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet. When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
I have two American made combustion engine cars on the road with over 100K with one at 157K. Still running strong.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Sig, don't put all your bolts into that Consumer Reports bucket...it can show signs of rust in the bottom. Use many sources (JD Power, etc.) before you quote.
Consumers is good, but not god and not always right.
So you find a single source ( JD Power) that says there is a rust issue, and feel that is somehow the word of God?? Interesting that JD Power gave the Prius the highest ratings possible in all the other major categories, yet you somehow forgot to mention that. Hmmm, you seem rather biased, to say the very least.
If there was a significant rust issue, I think we would be seeing a lot more about this on various websites. I spent quite a bit of time looking on Google for further documentation of any rust problem, and could find none.
While we get a lot of rain here in Western Oregon, it very rarely ever snows here. So we don't have any sort of issues like there are in other states, with road salt usage.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by JBA
Thanks for screwing the environment :aok
This is one of the biggest hoaxes on the Internet. Thanks for being to gullible as to swallow the story!! :lol :lol
For your information, CNW Marketing is one single man by the name of Art Spinella, who is living in a remote little coastal village here in Oregon. His information is as biased and inaccurate as it can get. In fact, his company actually gets funds from GM. Hmmm, I wonder why someone in the pay of GM might want to bash the Prius?
Here is a lot of info to discredit his Dust to Dust report:
http://www.denialism.com/labels/George%20Will.html
Even the number one environmentalist group in our nation, the Sierra Club, has condemned the report for being untruthful:
http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200711/mrgreen_mailbag.asp
The TRUTH of the matter is that all of the massive environmental damage done around the Sudsbury area in Ontario was done from the time the mining operation opened in 1883, up through the second world war. And that is long, long before the Prius was ever invented. For many decades now, the plant has been operating cleanly, under the extremely strict environmental regulations that Canada now has.
Do you really think that such a liberal and environmentalist country as Canada would allow such pollution as described from taking place? You should have questioned this report from the start. Even before the mining operation started, the forests in the area were decimated to get lumber to help rebuild Chicago after the huge 1871 fire.
So the whole claim that the Prius helped to cause all of this environmental damage in Canada is a totally false one, and completely discredits the author of this report. You should also note that Art Spinella has a degree in MARKETING, and not in any field of science.
In the future, don't be so gullible in believing everything you read on the Internet.
SIG 220
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Mercedes Benz USA (http://www.mbusa.com/campaigns/alternative-fuels/index.do)
For some diesel power
Well, it is good to see that Mercedes Benz has some diesel vehicles. However, they are all SUV's, and their quoted highway mileage of 32 mpg is well below what the Prius can achieve. Although it is certainly excellent for a SUV.
These cars are also so very expensive, that Mercdes Benz does not even list their price on their website. You have to contact a dealer for a quote.
So this is in a totally different class of car ( SUV ), that the vast majority of people would not be able to afford.
SIG 220
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Well, it turns out that Ripsnort is right about California being at fault for blocking Diesel vehicles here in the USA.
It looks like VW is indeed going to sell a new cleaner diesel version of the Jetta in their 2009 product line.
Here is a news report about this upcoming car, and why its introduction in the USA has been delayed:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/11/vw-delays-relea.html
SIG 220
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Fixed
Originally posted by SIG220
http://www.denialism.com/labels/George%20Will.html
http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200711/mrgreen_mailbag.asp
SIG 220
In the future, don't be so gullible in believing everything you read on the Internet
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Volkswagen sold a 1.9 liter TDi version of the MK4 Golf and Jetta in certain states (notebly not California or New York).
When they moved to the MK5 models, the TDi was discontinued as it was impossible to run the newer, cleaner 2.0 TDi engines on American diesel due to the sulfur content.
For reasons discussed above, diesels will probably be reintroduced in the near future.
As for the quality of VW cars, I've had 2. The first was a MK4 GTi, built in Mexico. The quality was indeed pants. My wife, however, currently has a 2008 Eos that was built in Germany. Its much, much better.
That said, I wouldn't necessarily hold it against the Mexicans for building rubbish cars. Its possible to do that anywhere. Ask anyone who owned an Alabama built first generation Mercedes M-Class.
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Originally posted by SIG220
There is no Jetta TDI Diesel available for sale on the Volkswagen of America website. In fact, there are no Diesel cars shown on their website for any of their different models.
So I must dispute your claim that such as car is currently available for sale here in the USA. There is no evidence to show that it is being imported here now.
A lot of the VW's being sold in North America are now being built at their plant in Puebla, Mexico. My daughter briefly drove a New Bettle made there, and it was an absolute lemon. I would not drive one of these Puebla made cars even if it was given to me for free. They are even manufacturing engines and transmissions there now.
I would be open to owning and driving a high mileage diesel car. But certainly not if it was made in Mexico.
SIG 220
The VW of America website notwithstanding, TDI's have been available in this country for years (again, we have a '99 Jetta, and we picked it up right at the dealership). If you want proof, walk into a VW dealership, or better yet, just look on the back of the VW's that are passing your Prius and look for the TDI lettering on the back.
A quick search on Carmax also shows 5 TDI's available right now (3 Jettas and 2 Beetles listed from 2001 to 2006 model years), so that should be proof enough that they are available in this country. Admittedly, the dealerships have a lot more gas models than TDI diesels, but you can get them.
Agree with you about the Mexican VW's, which was one reason we went TDI in the first place - the TDI's (at least in '99) were all still being made in Germany.
EagleDNY
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Originally posted by SIG220
Well, it turns out that Ripsnort is right about California being at fault for blocking Diesel vehicles here in the USA.
It looks like VW is indeed going to sell a new cleaner diesel version of the Jetta in their 2009 product line.
Here is a news report about this upcoming car, and why its introduction in the USA has been delayed:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/11/vw-delays-relea.html
SIG 220
Don't worry - with 3 out of 5 calls to the dealerships asking about the TDI Jetta, you can be sure the new model will be here as quickly as possible. Figures it would be California that caused the delay on the new model though.
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Originally posted by SIG220
Well, it is good to see that Mercedes Benz has some diesel vehicles. However, they are all SUV's, and their quoted highway mileage of 32 mpg is well below what the Prius can achieve. Although it is certainly excellent for a SUV.
These cars are also so very expensive, that Mercdes Benz does not even list their price on their website. You have to contact a dealer for a quote.
So this is in a totally different class of car ( SUV ), that the vast majority of people would not be able to afford.
SIG 220
They're not all SUV's the E320 CDI is a sedan lika mine. Obviously it gets much better mpg than the SUV's and my older version which doesn't have a particle filter gets even better mpg.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Sig, don't put all your bolts into that Consumer Reports bucket...it can show signs of rust in the bottom. Use many sources (JD Power, etc.) before you quote.
Consumers is good, but not god and not always right.
Originally posted by SIG220
So you find a single source ( JD Power) that says there is a rust issue, and feel that is somehow the word of God?? Interesting that JD Power gave the Prius the highest ratings possible in all the other major categories, yet you somehow forgot to mention that. Hmmm, you seem rather biased, to say the very least.
If there was a significant rust issue, I think we would be seeing a lot more about this on various websites. I spent quite a bit of time looking on Google for further documentation of any rust problem, and could find none.
While we get a lot of rain here in Western Oregon, it very rarely ever snows here. So we don't have any sort of issues like there are in other states, with road salt usage.
SIG 220
LOL, I think you're getting a little overzealous in your defense there.
"Consumer Reports bucket" ... "can show signs of rust in the bottom"
That'd be a figure of speech... ie: Consumer Reports isn't the end all be all of consumer satisfaction ratings. NOT "Prius' have a rust problem" :D
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There was a manager that everyone hated.. I mean a real ahole.. liar and backstabber and phony...
He bought a prenus and made his appearance everywhere he could with it.
One of my brothers is gay and sent me some decals that are = signs.. they mean some kind of transexual and transgender/gay rights thing but it is pretty obscure.
The manager in question really doesn't like cars and has probly never even washed one or could tell if the tires were low or how to open the hood.
We put the = sign on his back bumper next to all the other prenus decals about how they get to go over bridges free etc....
He told us that all of sudden more and more people were waking up to the environment as he was getting a lot more attention on the freeway coming to work lately.. people would wave and blow him kisses and such..
lazs
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:lol