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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on January 08, 2008, 11:59:33 AM

Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 08, 2008, 11:59:33 AM
UGH this sounds bad............

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2008/01/08/news/top/a70936023a84a21f862573ca000a0f1b.txt

those kids didn't deserve that IMHO.

IMHO NO ONE deserves this.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 08, 2008, 01:06:32 PM
Some might say religion is the same as witchcraft..Which makes circumcision genetil mutilation to non-belieivers...

And babies have died from this form of barbarism.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 08, 2008, 04:08:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
Some might say religion is the same as witchcraft..Which makes circumcision genetil mutilation to non-belieivers...

And babies have died from this form of barbarism.


Hmmm...............

IIRC there have been studies that show non-circumsized individuals are more pron to STD's?

My understanding was it was used more for health reasons in the 30's through 80's?
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 09, 2008, 08:36:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by wrag


IIRC there have been studies that show non-circumsized individuals are more pron to STD's?

My understanding was it was used more for health reasons in the 30's through 80's?



Both of those reasons came after a few thousand years of removing foreskins for religious reasons...apparantley God's handywork is so shoddy it has to be corrected at birth with a scalpel or sharpened stone.

Still,a slightly reduced risk of STD's justifies genetil mutilation?
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Tango on January 09, 2008, 08:47:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
Still,a slightly reduced risk of STD's justifies genetil mutilation?


Mine works just fine. :aok
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Engine on January 09, 2008, 08:55:16 AM
Most girls I know think an uncircumcised man's genitals are somewhat disgusting.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 09, 2008, 09:01:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Engine
Most girls I know think an uncircumcised man's genitals are somewhat disgusting.


Then why aren't there line-ups at hosptitals of un-circumcised adult males waiting for corrective surgury?
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Engine on January 09, 2008, 09:07:16 AM
It hurts?
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Xasthur on January 09, 2008, 10:58:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
Then why aren't there line-ups at hospitals of un-circumcised adult males waiting for corrective surgury?


Because it's a lot harder to heal and much more complicated surgery at an adult stage.

A snip at birth is comparitively easy to heal compared to an adult circumcision.

It has be shown that circumsised males are most certainly less prone to sexually transmitted infections in several studies.

Wheter or not this justifies the practice is up to the indidual but the practice itself does seem to have some merit.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on January 09, 2008, 11:20:01 AM
I enjoy my extra level of protection when I tumble naked in the straw. Circumsision is to me the same level of barbarisum as Egypt's tradition of sawing women genitals shut for to garantee virginity upon marriage, and pain during sexual act to prevent adultery.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 09, 2008, 01:58:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Xasthur
Because it's a lot harder to heal and much more complicated surgery at an adult stage.

A snip at birth is comparitively easy to heal compared to an adult circumcision.

It has be shown that circumsised males are most certainly less prone to sexually transmitted infections in several studies.

Wheter or not this justifies the practice is up to the indidual but the practice itself does seem to have some merit.


Interesting side note here.

The day that the actual work was done was specific.

Science has shown that on that specific date male human K factor is the highest it will every be.

However!

Has this thread been hijacked?

The original post was regarding the DEATH of children during witchcraft practice.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 09, 2008, 02:10:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
The original post was regarding the DEATH of children during witchcraft practice.


There was a Rabbi in NYC that was/is practicing the Orthodox method of circumsicion...to slit the foreskin,place babie's noodle into Rabbi's mouth,and err.."suction-off" the membrane..5 babies were infected with STD and two died(through infection) from this rabbi's practice.

It hit the press and nothing was done because nobody wanted to interfere with religious practice.

Death of children due too witchcraft.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 09, 2008, 02:21:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
There was a Rabbi in NYC that was/is practicing the Orthodox method of circumsicion...to slit the foreskin,place babie's noodle into Rabbi's mouth,and err.."suction-off" the membrane..5 babies were infected with STD and two died(through infection) from this rabbi's practice.

It hit the press and nothing was done because nobody wanted to interfere with religious practice.

Death of children due too witchcraft.


Links?

BTW if your statement is true a point I think should be made is....

IMHO there is a difference here.

The Rabbi did something that was definetly wrong.  Although IIRC there was at one time a claim that HIV couldn't be transfered via the mouth?

The other guy murdered those children seeking something from the other world so to speak.

I see a difference.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Shifty on January 09, 2008, 04:41:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
Death of children due too witchcraft.

Well said SirLoin, way to move to the fore and skin this debate.;)
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: john9001 on January 09, 2008, 04:50:11 PM
the ladies like my clean look. :D
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on January 09, 2008, 06:03:30 PM
the ladies like my hoody.:D
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SOB on January 10, 2008, 01:33:37 AM
I sure hope it's a pullover and not a zip-up. :confused:
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Pooh21 on January 10, 2008, 01:36:17 AM
Burn the witches.:mad:

to bring this thread back on track from frog willys
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: thrila on January 10, 2008, 07:18:23 AM
Good witchcraft (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7176673.stm)
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SD67 on January 11, 2008, 02:18:37 AM
The forms of witchcraft that involve human sacrifice are the hyped up christian inspired hollyweirdised variety.
True wiccans respect life. Furthermore genuine satanists have much better things to do with virgins than sacrifice them too.
It's high time the media got  away from the hype and call it what it is. A barbaric act perpetuated by the delusional and mentally disturbed.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Tango on January 11, 2008, 11:14:25 PM
And the Wicans are an off shoot of the Celtic Druids aren't they?

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/faqs/sacrific.html
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Pooh21 on January 11, 2008, 11:28:07 PM
Burn the Wiccans!:mad:

and wave around rake things.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SD67 on January 12, 2008, 05:36:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tango
And the Wicans are an off shoot of the Celtic Druids aren't they?

http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/faqs/sacrific.html

Agreed.
Wiccans are descendant from Celtic pagans, Druidism was one faction.
Modern Wicca has progressed, and these sacrificial victims were more often taken from the ranks of acolytes and went willingly, unlike the Christianised subjects.
(Btw I have no longer have any religious affiliation, though I was briefly in my younger years a member of the Church council for the Free Presbyterian Church of Australia)
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: Tango on January 13, 2008, 12:15:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SD67
Modern Wicca has progressed, and these sacrificial victims were more often taken from the ranks of acolytes and went willingly, unlike the Christianised subjects.


Willing or not it was still murder.

As for Christians, where does the Bible say anything about making human sacrifices? Issac was tested and stopped before he could do it, so don't use that as an example.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: vorticon on January 13, 2008, 12:45:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pooh21
Burn the Wiccans!:mad:

and wave around rake things.




Hammer of Hell
Not of The Well
A book of sin
Fathered by men
Unholy deeds
Done out of greed
Murder by law
In the Name of God

Burn them all
Burn them all
Burn them all

The blood runs cold
We've paid the toll
They burned the truth
Out of our youth
Bringers of pain
In the Father's name
Not of The Well
We'll send them back to Hell

And burn them all
Burn them all
Burn them all
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SD67 on January 13, 2008, 01:18:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Tango
Willing or not it was still murder.

As for Christians, where does the Bible say anything about making human sacrifices? Issac was tested and stopped before he could do it, so don't use that as an example.

I never said that any human sacrifice was used by Christians or for that matter by pre Christian Jews. You made that assumption all by yourself.
All I said was that human sacrifice  performed by most of the Druidic Celts  was performed upon willing subjects who were selected and prepared specifically for the task as opposed to the christian sponsered belief that the subjects were unwilling victims. There are of course documented cases where the subjects were that selected from enemies defeated in warfare, but then similar examples can be selected from contemporary conflicts that could also quite accurately be described as ritualistic killings.
As to it being murder, that's simply a personal observation. Murder is what the individual society calls it, much like warfare. If such a killing is accepted in that particular greater societies belief and judicial structure then it ceases to become murder to anyone accept an outsider. Make no mistake, if someone not qualified to perform such an act attempted it, they most certainly would have found themselves accused of "murder" and may have then been subject to another form of ritual killing, "execution".
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SD67 on January 13, 2008, 01:23:16 AM
Vorticon, that's an interesting song.
You wouldn't happen to have a reference to it would you? I'm intrigued to see it in the full context.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: vorticon on January 13, 2008, 01:43:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SD67
Vorticon, that's an interesting song.
You wouldn't happen to have a reference to it would you? I'm intrigued to see it in the full context.



lyrics for the whole album.
http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/manillaroad/thedeluge.html
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 13, 2008, 03:11:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Tango

As for Christians, where does the Bible say anything about making human sacrifices? Issac was tested and stopped before he could do it, so don't use that as an example.


How about God's instruction to Abraham to kill his own son?

Or Moses instructing his followers to murder every mother & child in a large city..leaving only the virgin females alive (for whatever reason..i can think of one)

Those are just two examples...Your arguement doesn't hold up.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SD67 on January 13, 2008, 03:25:16 AM
That topic was touched on, according to Christian mythology, God instructed him to sacrifice his son but stayed his hand at the moment of the killing stroke as a test to his willingness to submit to his will. He (God) provided a sheep as a substitute and the sacrifice was committed.
The killing perpetrated by Moses was an ethnic cleansing of sorts and as such was an act of war not a ritual sacrifice. The reason only virgin females were spared relates to the concept of Original Sin. Why Males are burdened with this from birth and females only have to bear it after the loss of their virginity is somewhat of a mystery, but no doubt it is steeped in the patriarchal societies that gave rise to the biblical myths as this concept is still adhered to by Muslims as well. This is why many girls are raped before they are killed by raiding Muslim extremists so Allah's' laws are obeyed.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 13, 2008, 03:40:23 AM
Submission is the order of the day in any religion..You are taught from birth you are a groveling,worthless worm & are in debt for other peoples sins from someone who you never asked for the loan from in the first place.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SD67 on January 13, 2008, 04:01:25 AM
Amen to that!
I'm just guessing here, but you seem to have had a fair helping of Roman Catholicism in your upbringing?
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 13, 2008, 04:25:27 AM
i was raised without religion..My exposure to Catholicism
waas when i got married(wife Catholic) and when i enrolled my son in Catholic school.

He was in his 3rd week of JK(3 yrs old) when he was suspended from going on a field trip to a pumpkin patch(for not standing up on command..had to take a day off work)..and was repeatedly sent down to the Principal's office,made to stand in the corner until he stopped crying(he didn't..he pee'd his pants instead)

I went down the next day and waited for the Principal.He at first denied doing that..then later said my son was defiant and wouldn't listen to him when he was told to stand against the wall...a 3 year old!

That was as much of the "Catholic system of shame" as i was going to let Marlon see..Now he's in public school in SK and he's doing just fine(not 1 phone call)

as for me..i referr to myself as being a born-again athiest.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SD67 on January 13, 2008, 04:45:27 AM
Ahh understood
I had a Catholic school inflicted upon me when I was young as well. Unfortunately for them I learned to use it to my advantage and spent many hours in the chapel where I was supposed to have been on my knees reciting the Rosary.
There were other things that went on there as well, much of which probably had a great influence on the person I am today even though they were only two years of my primary school life.
I can say without any reservation that the school administration from that and probably every subsequent school I attended until my last 3 years of public high school breathed a sigh of relief when my Father was transferred and I moved to a new school.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 13, 2008, 05:05:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SD67
That topic was touched on, according to Christian mythology, God instructed him to sacrifice his son but stayed his hand at the moment of the killing stroke as a test to his willingness to submit to his will. He (God) provided a sheep as a substitute and the sacrifice was committed.


Poor sinfull sheep..Isn't there a thread on ritual sacrifices?

i guess that's where the term "sacrificial lamb" comes from(& i bet nobody ate the meat from that creature)

The pig is also described as a filthy unworthy animal in many scriptures...They are actually highly intelligent animals and make great pets.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 13, 2008, 02:04:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SD67
The forms of witchcraft that involve human sacrifice are the hyped up christian inspired hollyweirdised variety.
True wiccans respect life. Furthermore genuine satanists have much better things to do with virgins than sacrifice them too.
It's high time the media got  away from the hype and call it what it is. A barbaric act perpetuated by the delusional and mentally disturbed.


How about you post some links for your claims?

Many fresh human skulls and bones have turned up in Mexico?

Perhaps you are a Wiccan.  I have no problem with that if it's the case.

I do have a problem with you reply Sir.

Some children have been murdered.

IMHO your reply is misplaced/mistimed in this thread.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 13, 2008, 02:16:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
Poor sinfull sheep..Isn't there a thread on ritual sacrifices?

i guess that's where the term "sacrificial lamb" comes from(& i bet nobody ate the meat from that creature)

The pig is also described as a filthy unworthy animal in many scriptures...They are actually highly intelligent animals and make great pets.


You're post IMHO are out of place and mistimed.

IMHO you SEEM like you are trying to DEFEND, and JUSTIFY, the murder of these children.

If so then IMHO you are doing something despicable.

Further you SEEM to be using this thread to vent your personal feeling regarding religion, and that is IMHO out of place in this thread!

Does Your seeming bitterness, and seeming hatred, toward religion require it?
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 13, 2008, 02:20:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
i was raised without religion..My exposure to Catholicism
waas when i got married(wife Catholic) and when i enrolled my son in Catholic school.

He was in his 3rd week of JK(3 yrs old) when he was suspended from going on a field trip to a pumpkin patch(for not standing up on command..had to take a day off work)..and was repeatedly sent down to the Principal's office,made to stand in the corner until he stopped crying(he didn't..he pee'd his pants instead)

I went down the next day and waited for the Principal.He at first denied doing that..then later said my son was defiant and wouldn't listen to him when he was told to stand against the wall...a 3 year old!

That was as much of the "Catholic system of shame" as i was going to let Marlon see..Now he's in public school in SK and he's doing just fine(not 1 phone call)

as for me..i referr to myself as being a born-again athiest.



Question?

How would you feel if it were YOUR child selected by someone for sacrifice in such a ritual?
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 13, 2008, 02:47:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
You're post IMHO are out of place and mistimed.

IMHO you SEEM like you are trying to DEFEND, and JUSTIFY, the murder of these children.

If so then IMHO you are doing something despicable.

Further you SEEM to be using this thread to vent your personal feeling regarding religion, and that is IMHO out of place in this thread!

Does Your seeming bitterness, and seeming hatred, toward religion require it?


i don't know how to split quotes & post so here goes..

#1:i strongly disagree
#2: that is whack in accusation
#3:see #2
#4:you are correct & wrong in the same sentence
#5:yes
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SirLoin on January 13, 2008, 03:22:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by wrag
Question?

How would you feel if it were YOUR child selected by someone for sacrifice in such a ritual?


i honestly couldn't tell you how i would feel,but i could definitely tell you how i would react.

You think i hijacked your thread?...perhaps(i appologize)

But you don't seem to see the coalition between scripture & barbarism.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 13, 2008, 03:26:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
i don't know how to split quotes & post so here goes..

#1:i strongly disagree
#2: that is whack in accusation
#3:see #2
#4:you are correct & wrong in the same sentence
#5:yes


Perhaps you should take a careful look at the original post at the beginning of this thread, and ask yourself what it is about.

Then REREAD you own post and the post put forward by SD67 and the manner in which someone might think it all comes together.

I don't care what religion or lack of religion either of you prefer.  Religion is not what this post was intended to be about.

It's about someone using children as a sacrifice, in a ritual, very recently.  The responses I see IMHO SEEM to be aimed at taking a wack at religion and to give explanations that SEEM aimed at justifying human sacrifice.

I have problems believing these children volunteered for this.  If they did I have problems believing they actually understood what they were volunteering for. <( in reference to druids using volunteers )  Which IMHO is an opinion as none of us were there to actually see if the offered sacrifice actually volunteered or was volunteered against their will and all that survived claimed they went happily to be sacrificed.

IMHO That you have issues with religion was apparent from your post, and your answer marked #5 backs that up.

Those issue SEEM to be overwhelming you? That you SEEM to prefer to attack religion rather then discuss what was done to those children?

That others SEEM to read this the same way?  Look at their responses and read them again?

BUT TRY reading them without your SEEMING HATRED of religion fogging what was posted.

Try thinking of JUST those children instead of YOURSELF and your issues?

Maybe insert your own children in their place?  

Might that just for a few seconds relieve you of your issues, your hatred for religion long enough to see what this thread was intended to be about?  

Perhaps that might create a different perspective.

One unclouded by hatred of religion?

Perhaps it now becomes apparent to you?
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: wrag on January 13, 2008, 03:40:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
i honestly couldn't tell you how i would feel,but i could definitely tell you how i would react.

You think i hijacked your thread?...perhaps(i appologize)

But you don't seem to see the coalition between scripture & barbarism.


They were barbaric times.  Many things were acceptable then that are NOT acceptable now.  Or at least were not acceptable when I was young.

And perhaps you are coming to understand I'm not interested in discussing religion right or wrong here.

The discussion is human sacrifice right or wrong.
Title: Witchcraft
Post by: SD67 on January 13, 2008, 07:33:48 PM
Sorry if my post offended you Wrag.
I was not in any way condoning the sacrifice of humans in any way, shape or form.
The point I was making was that slaying of these innocents would not have been done so by contemporary Wiccans (For the record  I am not Wiccan).
There are two religious cults that do come to mind that are both active in the area and also have been known to practice ritual sacrifice.
Voodoo cults and those that follow the ancient practices of the Inca religion have been known to make human sacrifice on specific occasions. The Inca practice comes immediately to mind, as at the coronation ceremony of a new King, 200 children were sacrificed to mark the occasion.
I don't have references immediately to hand, as it is a subject I covered during my Anthropological studies back in the late 80's early 90's but I will do a search later this evening to see what I can find.