Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hblair on February 14, 2000, 11:57:00 PM
-
Connections seem to be the latest cause of everybody losing a dogfight, (if you listen to channel 1 anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)). Seems every time someone gets shot down, it is because of the lag, warpiness, etc.
"Cable modems are the ONLY way to be competitive" I heard somebody say.
Have I missed something here, or is there wholesale ignorance among the customer base? Isn't a "quality" connection what you need any more? Can you not get the quality connection with a trusty 'ol USRobotics modem? I live in Alabama, use a USR modem, get average pings, and I don't see the dredded "warp" that is being talked about (except for the d4-d3 warp that is 'supposed' to be there.)
-
Funny how the guys with good connex, never see a problem. My connex have SUCKED ever since this went pay.
-
Might just be my imagination, but for me at least, the timing of the bad connections did coincide with pay for play.. BUT... at about this same time if memory serves, is when the damn DoS attacks were going on, and EVERYTHING was choking, for me at least. AH connex were crap, but then so were my Quake (yes, I admit it.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) and browsing speeds. Other than some extremely bizarre frame rate drops last night, all has been pretty well here. And before anyone asks for pity due to their type of connection, consider this. I have a blast on AH (and even get some kills!) connecting on a 56k winmodem that only connects at 28.8 because I live so far out in the country. Just call me datastream challenged. Heh.. I feel fortunate. Until I complained to the phone company 4 years ago, our neighborhood carrier lines were paper insulated lead line, dating back God only knows how long!
-
Skorpyon,
I am under the same circumstances (Even if I do live in the center of a town that is built around blue chip companies...) 56K modem connected at 31.2 maximum...
I DO have a blast on AH, I think poeple just have to understand the effect of "lag shooting", Lephturn has a good link on his site that explains it all...
I get killed a lot, but have the balls to admit that it's not lag...just that 99% of the guys in there are still better than me... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(Struggling to get that K/D ratio AT LEAST above 1...)
------------------
Saw/Saintaw
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
Dweebs from Belgium
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dweebs.gif)
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 02-15-2000).]
-
Hmmmm well all I know is that I have a US robotics and generally get 270 to 300 ms pings, sometimes worse when things are sticky,and it seems to me that I have alot of warping going on versus the guys that have DSL/cable connections. I was not aware of the "normal" d4-d3 warp and don't understand why it has to be there but it sure makes things tuffer for sure. This I do know all of the guys are switching to cable/dsl as fast as it comes availiable and it seems to me anyway that they all claim improvements in gunnery and ACM???? I am not a techy so I don't know the ins and outs but my experience tells me that a guy with 50 ms pings will have some advantage over my 300 ms pings since my FE will get info slower than his will??? I know that it is my FE that counts on what I get but I bet things improve for me when I get the DSL/cable option in my town (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
This I do know all of the guys are switching to cable/dsl as fast as it comes availiable and it seems to me anyway that they all claim improvements in gunnery and ACM???? I am not a techy so I don't know the ins and outs but my experience tells me that a guy with 50 ms pings will have some advantage over my 300 ms pings since my FE will get info slower than his will
I don't blame people for wanting a faster connection, that would greatly improve download time and whatnot, I wish cable was available where I live for this reason.
But to say that it provides improvements in gunnery is maybe a stretch, and saying it provides improvements in ACM is, well, you get the picture. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I just have a hard time believing that a 150 ms better ping is gonna be everyones salvation. Sure, it can't hurt, but it won't make us all Aces overnight. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Hi, my name is Kieren, and I have ISDN.
"Hi, Kieren"
I have seen both sides of this. I live in a rural area that receives very poor connect quality (24,000bps) on a v.90 modem (behind too many repeaters to get faster v.90 performance). I had access to 4 different ISP's that all gave the same results- lag.
I switched to ISDN and have seen much better results. To me, the improved speed reduces the amount that I have to "guess", that is, it lessens the amount I have to compensate for net lag. Planes are much closer to where I believe they are than in the past.
I still see nights where things lag a bit, and have nights where I disconnect frequently, but as has been posted, that is a function of DoS, not my ISDN.
Will cable help (assuming I can ever get it)? I'm betting it will.
-
My conx was always unplayable after 6 pm (Finnish time).
Beacons, dumps, but after changed my ISP, no problems.
BTW, same thing happened in WB too...
My current ISP has won many tests and is fastest ISP in Finland.
It's pure roadkill as latest tests claims "Saunalahti" is fastest, that was my previous unplayable ISP.
"Kolumbus" rules ok (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
I use a usr sportster 33.6 and I am happy to report that I have had little trouble connecting to this game. Having played aw where my delay was often in the 400 range. I am happy to have a game where I can actually hit a manuevering target. Perhaps we should make anyone who complains about their conn play aw with a 400 delay and maybe they will come back to ah and be grateful for the difference, At least for a little while anyway.
-
BTW, anyone remember the IP address for HTC?
I am at work and don't have it here. I'm interested in seeing if the ping here is as good as I get at home.
Thanks
-
"Cable modems are the ONLY way to be competitive"
Bull-friggin-crap!
I have a cable modem on the Road Runner network and after a test I ran this weekend, I think I am going to drop the service. Road Runner has problems with their external network gateway and as such I have been experiencing 10% packetloss on average. This has resulted in numerous warps, disconnects, etc.
I just reopened my old Earthlink account and after running a ping to the servers found that after 50 pings during primetime, my packetloss was 0%! My average pingtime was 165ms. With cable my average ping was about 130ms but it varied from as low as 65ms on up to 250ms.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO YOUR CONNECT IS STABILITY! Go for a low packetloss percentage and a low variance in ping times, then you will be happy.
Cable modems are not the end all be all saviour.
-Ding
-
Originally posted by hblair:
BTW, anyone remember the IP address for HTC?
<snip>
216.91.192.19
I recently have connected via cable modem. My ping to HTC went from 200-240ms to 50-70ms. I hit the MS test site at 816 kbits/sec.
The internet has been very bad this last week due to some "Sick Puppy Hacker(s)" intentionly flooding the byways. That withstanding, I do notice some changes in the game from my new faster connection. My old connection was a 56k modem and I usually connected at 49k to my ISP.
- The "Megga" warps, where many planes warp to one spot then warp back, has pretty much gone away.
- Often "Rhythmic Mini" warps are prominent, lets say when I am less that 150 yards or closer on a planes six. I can tell easily the connection speed of my oponent and if their connection is solid. Very hard to track a target at times.
- I see more "Square" corners now. This is where the NME planes appears to go straight, turn very hard and then go straight again. This really throws me off.
- I don't win any more HO's than I used to, possibly less. Less because, in essence the game has changed subtly for me and I am still adjusting to it. Throws off my gunnery to some extent.
With my new faster connection it is no easier or no harder for me to be successful in the game. It is indeed different and I am currently under a new learning curve. I will say, that it is relatively new to me and if what I learn in the future changes I'll be sure to let you know.
Good Luck All!
Mino
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 02-15-2000).]
-
Anyone remember the old AW days (Genie) when the excuse was C.J.O.M.K.? (Cat jumped on my keyboard..)
------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)
"In training, upon being told it was time to
solo, the instructor said, “You tried to kill
me enough times, now try it with a check pilot.”"
-
Hi all,
with my 56k modem i get 350-380ms on average from germoney, mixed with 20% packed loss often and very seldom discos.
Although my conect don't seem to be one of the best ones , i must say that i enjoy AH very much and i don't see much warping.
Only probs i see is when im chasing the enemy at close range and he's maneuvering because their flightpath is a bit angular most times.
Would be nice to fly with 100ms just to see if theres a difference.
blitz
blitz
-
Thanks for the IP, minotaur.
FWIW, I'm getting 150ms - 160ms ping from the shop. I get slightly better from at home.
-
Im at work right now, but I get a ping of 153 as an average to HTC.
I live in Norway.
Thats way up north in europe if you didnt know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
-
Go with dingy he's right.
Here's my summary of connect-related issues, from a year of reading people whine about it and flying here and on brand-W.
A. Things that will screw up your connx mighty fast:
1. A "Winmodem" -- CPU-driven compression has a problem with online games, as both need the processor at about the same time (AH will use your CPU at 100%, Winmodem will want some of that too, it won't get it, and the results are ugly). To oversimplify, if you cannot use your modem with DOS, you have a problem. This is serious.
2. On a TNT card (and I imagine for others) If you've got Vsync off, make sure your drivers are set to render 0 frames ahead.
3. Packet loss. This is your number one enemy. Think of every lost packet as a microwarp.
4. Wildly variable connection lag. This will cause all kinds of jumping around, late hits, offsides and the like.
B. Ping Times and Bandwidth
I've been in Europe, connecting across a LAN on academic networks. These nets are heavily used (read oversubscribed) during working hours and amazingly fast off hours. So, I've been able to experience with the same connection, >1000 ms with nasty packet loss, 700 ms steady with minimal loss and up to 160 ms ping times.
1.
Bandwidth doesn't matter. Those who brag about their cable modems will have great bandwidth, and might be able to receive video on their computer; they might (probly) also get a faster ping time than a modem. But if their ISP has oversubscribed their services, you're gonna see nasty problems, packet loss, narrow bandwidth, and the like, especially at peak usage hours.
Again, I've seen my PC get up to 100k/sec streaming video on weekends. But at 1:00 PM on a wednesday afternoon, I'll get 100 bytes/sec and I'm lucky to get a single web page without losing the connection.
2. Lag
Yes, lag makes a difference. It comes in two flavors -- server lag and connection lag. Server lag is more or less static, and reflects the time it takes for the server to process information and spit it out again. I t might increase with users online. Connection lag is the time it takes for the data to travel from the FE to the server and back. This is more or less related to your ping time. There is a difference to playing with 700 ms and 100ms, and there is a difference to playing against someone witha 700ms and someone with a 100ms connection. The higher your lag, the older the information you receive in your FE world; so e.g. the A/C charging behind you is closer than it appears, and the one you're attacking will see you farther away than you really are. In other words, you need to adjust your reaction times and tactics to fit your lag times. From my experience, switching between 700 and 200 ms lag can be disorienting -- your reflexes are all off.
So, in summary, modem or not, high ping or low, what's key is to get a steady stream of data flowing at a constant speed.
Dinger
-
My question is how many of you that have had connection problems, have done a traceroute, saved the data and sent it in to HTC?
Because if you haven't, then you have no right to squeak.
The one time I did this, I got an immediate response from Pyro on it.
Personally, I have great connects to AH thru two different ISP's, both on a off brand v.90 modem.
Typical ping times are in the 160's-170's ms, with 0% packet loss. However there are times, that there is gonna be lag no matter how good your connect is, and if you are on digital (cable/ADSL) or plain old analog.
Lag is a fact of life of internet gaming. But you do NOT have to have a digital connection to be competitive. Period.
I think I do pretty good (ie. average)and I am one of the "great unwashed masses".
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
-
Like this?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 | | 169.254.182.87 | PII400 | ... | | | (private use) |
| 1 | | 130.67.231.128 | ti18a67-l1.ti.telenor.net | ?Oslo, Norway | 20 | x | Norsk Data A/S |
| 2 | | 130.67.224.1 | ti18d01-fe2-0.ti.telenor.net | ?Oslo, Norway | 23 | x- | Norsk Data A/S |
| 3 | | 130.67.254.5 | ti18c01-fe8-0-0.ti.telenor.net | ?Oslo, Norway | 31 | x--- | Norsk Data A/S |
| 4 | | 130.67.61.122 | ti18c02-fe1-1-0.ti.telenor.net | ?Oslo, Norway | 29 | x-- | Norsk Data A/S |
| 5 | | 130.67.61.57 | ti01c01-s3-1-1.ti.telenor.net | ?Oslo, Norway | 35 | x-- | Norsk Data A/S |
| 6 | | 148.122.66.33 | nb01b01-fe6-1-0.nb.telenor.net | ?(Norway) | 49 | -x | Telenor AS |
| 7 | | 148.122.65.14 | nb03b01-pos4-0-0.nb.telenor.net | ?(Norway) | 115 | x | Telenor AS |
| 8 | | 144.232.172.25 | sl-gw7-nyc-6-0-0.sprintlink.net | New York, NY, USA | 117 | x- | Sprint/United Information Service |
| 9 | | 144.232.7.81 | sl-bb12-nyc-3-3.sprintlink.net | New York, NY, USA | 123 | x-- | Sprint/United Information Service |
| 10 | | 144.232.9.70 | sl-bb12-pen-7-0.sprintlink.net | Pennsauken, NJ, USA | 149 | -x- | Sprint/United Information Service |
| 11 | | 144.232.9.238 | sl-bb11-fw-5-2.sprintlink.net | Fort Worth, TX, USA | 166 | x | Sprint/United Information Service |
| 12 | | 144.232.11.5 | sl-bb11-fw-8-0.sprintlink.net | Fort Worth, TX, USA | 165 | x | Sprint/United Information Service |
| 13 | | 144.232.11.66 | sl-gw13-fw-8-0-0.sprintlink.net | Fort Worth, TX, USA | 202 | -x----- | Sprint/United Information Service |
| 14 | | 144.228.137.6 | sl-dnetfw-1-0-T3.sprintlink.net | - | 186 | x-- | Sprint |
| 15 | | 216.90.2.66 | applink-1.usdlls.savvis.net | - | 162 | x | SAVVIS Communications |
| 16 | | 216.91.192.19 | beta.hitechcreations.com | ?Grapevine, TX 76051 | 185 | x- | Applink Corp |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
-
Although it does not exactly apply to this thread, take a look at this article I am working on for my web site:
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/connection.htm (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/connection.htm)
It's not linked from the main site, as it is in first draft form and I've not finished the part about optimizing your modem connection. However, I think it will be a good read for those interested in how their connections effect Aces High play.
To boil it all down... Dingy is right on.
------------------
Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/ (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
-
ok you have convinced me that packet loss may be my problem??? now does anyone have a program where I might be able to see what that loss is??? I am presently using ping plotter which I don't think yields packet loss info.
BigJim
-
testing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) :0
[This message has been edited by BigJim (edited 02-15-2000).]
[This message has been edited by BigJim (edited 02-15-2000).]
-
I would suggest a little program called UOTrace, its freeware, its small and it was originaly written by a UO player for onlinegameing. It will ping, trace, poll (continuous ping/trace), perform DNS lookup, and will even automatically send an email to the owner of any router that gives a really bad result (if you wish).
Here is the URL, its only 65K
ftp://ftp.owo.com/pub/uo/uotrace/uotrace.exe (http://ftp://ftp.owo.com/pub/uo/uotrace/uotrace.exe)
Its what I use.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
-
I used to have a cable modem, then cause i moved i went back to a simple 33.6K dial up.
The difference in ping speeds changed all of about 20-40 ms its now aroung 380 ms.
Once your packets get over the ppp link (in a dial-up) to your ISP they're are treated exactly the same as packets from a cable modem or any other connection. The difference is that a cable/ISDN can get a packet to your ISP alot faster than a ppp (dial up) link can but this only constitutes (in my case) 1 hop in the 16 odd to get to HTC. So the difference it makes to me is almost nothing. The lag comes about from the number of hops it has to do => more hops, bigger latency => longer ping trip time.
When some people get ADSL/ISDN/Cable and they say their ping went down dramatically its probably bacuse they now have to do less hops to HTC, and/or the old ppp (dial up)link played a significant part in the latency, either beacuse of the way the ISP handles it or maybe a crappy phone line or something.
To cut to the chase, cables/ADSL/ISDN can give good improvements but they, themselves, are not always the cause of it. So dont just go get one thinking you'll eliminate warps, not true.
The best way is to optimise your ppp link.
try this:
1. Change you MTU and MRU sizes to about 512 or so (or to the closest packet size of an Aces High UDP packet - what is it HT?).
2. Turn all compression,buffering etc OFF on your modem.
3. check you TTL too. Too long a TTL means if a packet gets lost it will not die and show up at HTC with some old co-ordinate information of your plane, this is what causes the warp (that and packet loss, but old packets are worse than lost packets).
There are a number of freeware products that let you play with these settings.
Remember a constantly bad ping is not really bad at all. Packet loss and packet delay are THE causes of warping. As long as you get a constant (ie little deviation from the mean ping time) ping time all will be good.
------------------
Overlord Spatula,
1st Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assault Group
"... 10 Me-109s out of the sun..." Aces High, Iron Maiden.
-
BigJim: PingPlotter does show you packet loss. The column on the left will show you packet loss, and at what routers the packet loss is occuring.
Spatula: The main reason a MoDem has higher latency, is because it must do analog to digital conversions which take time, and increase latency. Other higher bandwidth connections do not undergo these conversions and the signal stays digital, hence they have much lower latency.
------------------
Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/ (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)