Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on January 08, 2008, 06:32:50 PM
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Anyone been through it?
What did you think of it?
And..yes
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Yes.
Didn't work worth dang.
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In my next life, I want to be one.
Me: "Bob, how did you feel when Mary threw her cast iron skillet through your 52" plasma TV during the Superbowl's opening kickoff?"
Bob: "I wanted to kill the little beach!"
Me: "Mary, how does that make you feel when Bob voices his frustration at your actions?"
Mary: "Well, I would say...."
Me: "OOPS! Our time is up for this week. We'll meet again next week at the same time. See my receptionist on the way out and she'll process your bill".
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Yes been there.
I learned some things.
Cant really say it worked, although Im still married to the same gal
:D
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Marriage Guidance Counsellor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrTBlV-FGbc
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been through it.. the way it works is that the woman asks for it and sets it up. the semi professional who she hires knows which side of the bread their butter is on sooo...
The results are predictable. It becomes a blame game and you are it. mostly it is a way for a woman to bow out of a relationship without feeling guilty.. she gets a "professionals" blessing and you get to witness it.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
been through it.. the way it works is that the woman asks for it and sets it up. the semi professional who she hires knows which side of the bread their butter is on sooo...
The results are predictable. It becomes a blame game and you are it. mostly it is a way for a woman to bow out of a relationship without feeling guilty.. she gets a "professionals" blessing and you get to witness it.
lazs
Completely opposite for me. I was prepared to be flamed but to my amazement it got turned around on her.
I guess the counseling did work since we are still together so far.
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who initiated the visits?
lazs
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She did. I figured I would participate because I thought if I just gave up I would feel guilty for not trying.
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glad it worked out.. really.
I have known a lot of people over the years who went and the experience was about like I described for most.
almost every one ended up divorced within 5 years of the visits.
the ones who didn't get divorced right away were the ones who took the advice of the professional and.. changed the way they were. or tried to. we can't really change who we are and we shouldn't. we can't be who someone else wants us to be for very long no matter how much we want to be with them.
lazs
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I agree completely lazs. That is the way it has happened so far for us. It has only been 2 years since being in counseling and we both changed for about the first 6 months after and we are right back to being the same people we were before. The only difference is that we improved our communication so it doesnt go too far like it used to. I think a majority of relationships fall apart due to lack of, or poor communication.
yank
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You can start by writing down what each of your expectations of the marriage are (this is the first thing counselers most likely have you do).
Review each item on that list that you both wrote out, taking turns, and discuss each item in depth for 1 hour. Have designated dates to discuss them (Mon/Wed/Fri from 6pm--7pm AFTER dinner so you're not rushed)
Civilized debate is allowed. Leaving the room when you get worked up is not allowed.(Write up a set of "Ground Rules" first so you both abide by them)
Write out an action plan for each item you disagree on. "What can I do to better the situation" format. Review from the top of the list, each item, once a month. This entire process should take an average of 6 months.
Try that first, you'll save yourself a ton of $$ and the idea that someone outside your marriage had to fix it for you won't be a factor in regaining that lost bond of friendship between you and your wife.
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yanke... I do agree that if both parties are willing to accept the other person for what they really are then it will work.
I have been very up front in my relationships with women now and have a girlfriend of 6 years. I have never lied to her or pretended to be someone else even when it was most tempting.
lazs
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Originally posted by yankedudel
I agree completely lazs. That is the way it has happened so far for us. It has only been 2 years since being in counseling and we both changed for about the first 6 months after and we are right back to being the same people we were before. The only difference is that we improved our communication so it doesnt go too far like it used to. I think a majority of relationships fall apart due to lack of, or poor communication.
yank
You are SO spot on its not funny. At LEAST once a month, you need to have a "Mommy and Daddy night out" without any kids, friends or family, just yourselfs...over dinner, a movie, hell just a drive around town for 2 hours discussing your lives outside the house when your both not around each other. :aok
Spend less time watching TV and being on the computer, more time helping out in the kitchen or do a load of laundry on a weekly basis (as a man, if this is not already part of your chores)
A woman should offer to help out more outside, or offer help in her spouses daily or weekly chores. Helping each other is a form of communication, it says "I'm here for you, what do you need from me?"
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I don't do the chores that she does.. she does em better than me.. she doesn't do the chores I do.. I do em better. the goal is the thing. Me trying to be a cook or a maid does not do either of us any good at all. Her trying to change her own oil in her truck does no one any good. it is just frustrating and silly.
I also think that the real way to get along is if you have seperate homes.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
yanke... I do agree that if both parties are willing to accept the other person for what they really are then it will work.
I have been very up front in my relationships with women now and have a girlfriend of 6 years. I have never lied to her or pretended to be someone else even when it was most tempting.
lazs
lazs :aok It is so hard some times.
Ripsnort,
I agree, the marriage changes dramatically with children. We just had our first, beautiful little girl, 2 years ago and ended up moving back to Michigan from Florida just to be back close to friends and family (read: babysitters) so we could have a life and a romantic relationship again.
We call it "date night" and it is like being back in high school again. It's just weird going out alone but it is crucial. One on one time is definetely NOT the 2 hours between when the child goes to bed and when we do.
Yank
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Originally posted by lazs2
I don't do the chores that she does.. she does em better than me.. she doesn't do the chores I do.. I do em better. the goal is the thing. Me trying to be a cook or a maid does not do either of us any good at all. Her trying to change her own oil in her truck does no one any good. it is just frustrating and silly.
I also think that the real way to get along is if you have seperate homes.
lazs
It's not the action of doing them Lazs, its the OFFERING to help that speaks volumes and breaks down barriers.
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AND the offering can make for a good laugh. When I offer to do the laundry she usually gets a pretty good laugh and when she offers to cook I get a pretty good laugh because we both know the outcome would be BAAD!
Anywho...Dredlock:
If you go into counseling with an open mind and you think she is worth the effort it can help.
If you dont think that she or the family (if applicable) is worth it or you go into it with a piss poor attitude it probably wont work so save the $$$.
I would try Ripsnort's idea of the list too. It is exactly how our counseling started.
Yank
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I don't offer to do anything that I don't really think is a good idea for me to do.
She often tells me to get out of the kitchen or house when she is working. I make a mess unplugging the sink or putting in a dishwasher.. she cleans it up.
we are both grateful for the others talents.
lazs
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One of my friends married a chick who was a psych.
She gave up that practice and started a marriage counselor business.
The money rolled in like it was on slides.
This was her 6th marriage btw.......................... ...........
Get the picture?
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Originally posted by Jackal1
One of my friends married a chick who was a psych.
She gave up that practice and started a marriage counselor business.
The money rolled in like it was on slides.
This was her 6th marriage btw.......................... ...........
Get the picture?
This is why you ask questions. Find out who is counseling you. Don't just write a check.
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Originally posted by yankedudel
This is why you ask questions. Find out who is counseling you. Don't just write a check.
Maybe for you.
For me it just verifies that I will not be stupid enough to think that I can pay someone to change me or cure problems for hire....................or that I would actualy change.
Bu hey.....that`s just me.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
You are SO spot on its not funny. At LEAST once a month, you need to have a "Mommy and Daddy night out" without any kids, friends or family, just yourselfs...over dinner, a movie, hell just a drive around town for 2 hours discussing your lives outside the house when your both not around each other. :aok
Spend less time watching TV and being on the computer, more time helping out in the kitchen or do a load of laundry on a weekly basis (as a man, if this is not already part of your chores)
A woman should offer to help out more outside, or offer help in her spouses daily or weekly chores. Helping each other is a form of communication, it says "I'm here for you, what do you need from me?"
Good plan, Ripsnort. If you're with a women you truly enjoy waking up next to than what you have said above is most certainly a very small sacrifice.
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Counseling only works if you have a good consoler and both parties are willing to work at it. Marriage is WORK.
My wife and I had a rough beginning but we found a good consoler and it literally turned our marriage around. Our 17th anniversary is coming up and I can truthfully say every year since our counseling has gotten better and better. The key is communication and a willingness to work at it.
As stated by others, there are a lot of quacks out there. Make sure you get one that is not in it for the money and is just in it to help people. In this case, more money does not equal better service.
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so long as it doesn't have to be a decision between a good marriage and a good life.
Lots of people stay together for some good reasons and.. for some very bad ones. Life is short. the world is full of women.
lazs
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Why does divorce cost so much?
because it's worth it.:rofl
JK good luck to you and your wife.
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Second time around I got it right. First time did the counseling thing, we both tried to make it work it didn't. We got divorced.
So I took everything I learned from the first marriage, Why I sucked...Why she sucked, and did some introspective analysis of what I learned.
1. Marry different culture different race
2. Be open minded
3. Compassionate
4. Woman needs to be Bi sexual
5. Woman needs to make more money then you
6. Man can not be a lap dog No is NO!
Needless to say I have been a happily married man for the last 8 yrs.
(Of course my Idea of marriage may not be your idea of marriage but it works for us. and it is certainly not boring):t
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Ill respond to this thread beter later when I am able to do so more freely.
In the meantime. Thanks for taking a slightly more serious stance to it then a couple of the first responces I had.
Im willing to go into this with an open mind and with an eye on compromise.
So long as Im not expected to sell the farm (be the only one making the compromises).
There are some issues between us Im not sure will ever be completely resolved to our complete satisfaction.
In those areas I hope we can at least reach a mutual understanding and acceptance of one another.
We went in for the initial consultation and just kinda skimmed over the surface on some issues. I was frustrated as some things I wasnt able to completely sayor I should say wasntallowed to finish explaining my position due to inturuptions and as a result to me seemed to have me painted in such a way that I was the only one completely wrong.
When we left I think we were both more pissed off then when we went in (we were both in a bad mood when we went in. but Ill get into that later)
In hindisght though. in looking at the positions the therapist was taking We both may have felt as if our positions were attacked.
Dunno. May be a good thing.
Like I said I am going ot TRY to approach it with an open mind.
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Originally posted by lazs2
been through it.. the way it works is that the woman asks for it and sets it up. the semi professional who she hires knows which side of the bread their butter is on sooo...
The results are predictable. It becomes a blame game and you are it. mostly it is a way for a woman to bow out of a relationship without feeling guilty.. she gets a "professionals" blessing and you get to witness it.
lazs
Spot on !!!
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Marriage/Pre-Marriage counseling is more or less paying someone $85 an hour to let your woman whine and cry about what an A-hole you are to a third party.
OK, all kidding aside - I have not been through it but one of my customers is a leading marriage counselor in this area. He has an ivy league education and from what I understand from him is that if things are just cracked a bit, they can help keep it together... but if the sucker is shattered, best use the money to prepare to move on.
Good Luck!!!
Also if for the first few sessions you feel worse than when you went in... that is COMPLETELY normal.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ill respond to this thread beter later when I am able to do so more freely.
In the meantime. Thanks for taking a slightly more serious stance to it then a couple of the first responces I had.
Im willing to go into this with an open mind and with an eye on compromise.
So long as Im not expected to sell the farm (be the only one making the compromises).
There are some issues between us Im not sure will ever be completely resolved to our complete satisfaction.
In those areas I hope we can at least reach a mutual understanding and acceptance of one another.
We went in for the initial consultation and just kinda skimmed over the surface on some issues. I was frustrated as some things I wasnt able to completely sayor I should say wasntallowed to finish explaining my position due to inturuptions and as a result to me seemed to have me painted in such a way that I was the only one completely wrong.
When we left I think we were both more pissed off then when we went in (we were both in a bad mood when we went in. but Ill get into that later)
In hindisght though. in looking at the positions the therapist was taking We both may have felt as if our positions were attacked.
Dunno. May be a good thing.
Like I said I am going ot TRY to approach it with an open mind.
Based on what little I know of the sitution other than what you've described above....if the anger is not over money, or adultery, then you've got a better than 2 to 1 odds of recovering and living a long happy life together. :aok Seriously, #1 and #2 for divorces are money and adultery (money being>>Argueing over it...)
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Dred,
I was actually being serious. I dont know if it really works even though we are still together.
I went to a whole staggering 10 sessions at the suggestion of my wife. We were separted for almost 10 months at the time.
I went in with an open mind, you have to. I was honest and spoke about how things made ME feel, not what she was "doing". I spoke about my perception of things.
After the first 5 or so sessions the counsellor made a suggestion to my wife for anti-depressants stating her out of control spending habits were a result of depression.
My wife refused, though we still continued to go for a while. She then decided she didnt wnat to go anymore as she did not wish to take any medication.
We quit going, we are still together, she is still spending too much , not as much but too much.
The only good thing we no longer do is if we have an argument we try and stick to the points we are arguing about and not bring up things from 3 years ago.
Though we are still together I have my doubts as to if counselling is the reason or if it worked at all.
Good luck to you and keep an open mind.
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Interesting read.
Not married but had some difficulty with the girlfriend once she moved in with the kids. I clean up after myself, she doesnt. When one of her cats pissed on my brand new bed because she was too lazy to clean their litter box, I got ticked. She then got *mad* that i asked her to clean up the mess made on the bed.
So its taken a good amount of time for her to understand what I expect from her. I spent several hundred dollars on the lawn, months of having Scotts over, fertilizing, weeding, etc. Then my lovely lady drives across the lawn because it was easier than moving her mom's car out of the way one day. Now I have tire tracks sunk into the lawn. Grrr.
Its been a few months and she finally "gets" that this is my home, a place that took me a lot of time, work and effort to get. When someone doesnt treat it with respect, that bothers me.
She used to just give lame sarcastic replies, which served only to tick me off and make the anger build.
Then....of all things...she read a Dr Laura book on the Proper care and feeding of a husband. I thought this book would be terrible for my cause, but I was amazed. Dr Laura essentially tells ladies to get over themselves, shape up and stop being selfish. Imagine that.
Finally, when her Mom was up one time, her Mom was floored how poor a job she was doing cleaning up after herself. I dont know if she said anything or not to her, but I have seen a noticable improvement.
I suppose every relationship has its good and bad days. We're having more good days lately.
I just wish someone made a "Dating a Divorcee with Children For Dummies" :)
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Originally posted by sgt203
Dred,
I was actually being serious. I dont know if it really works even though we are still together.
I went to a whole staggering 10 sessions at the suggestion of my wife. We were separted for almost 10 months at the time.
I went in with an open mind, you have to. I was honest and spoke about how things made ME feel, not what she was "doing". I spoke about my perception of things.
Actually I wasnt referring to you.
Though in hindisght Im sure the other posts were well intended levity.
It just wasnt what I was in the mood to hear at the moment.
I plan on going in with an open mind.
And have every intention of being completely honest. Brutally so if need be.
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Based on what little I know of the sitution other than what you've described above....if the anger is not over money, or adultery, then you've got a better than 2 to 1 odds of recovering and living a long happy life together. :aok Seriously, #1 and #2 for divorces are money and adultery (money being>>Argueing over it...)
Well its alot of things.
But sex (not adultery) and money are two of the issues.
But they are only part of a larger picture.
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I'll take a wild guess here.
First year and 1/2 you could nail her anytime and get away with it. Then within a period of 6 months to 1 year the deflector shield goes up - and you can't hit it with a nuclear missile if you tried. The excuses, you don't understand my emotional needs as a woman and I can't satisfy your needs as a man.
Occurring concurrently, is the need to feel independent and not reliant on anyone - yet you still take care of the bills to make sure there are fewer things to be encumbered by.
Sound familiar?
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Actually no.
First consider we've been married someting like 25 years
But sex has always been something of an issue. And there has always been some sort of an excuse. Some of them actually quite legitimate
Thing is.
Shes run out of excuses that I am willing to accept
And she doesnt like my version of a compromise.
Add to that, We have different tastes. And attitudes about sex
Lets just say. If sex were ice cream.
She likes Vanilla. On very are occasion will try and really enjoy another flavor.
Whereas for me. Vanilla is ok sometimes. But as a steady diet I mostly find it boring as hell.
I prefer to try different flavors and really enjoy a bananna split with all the extras. (no Im not bisexual)
Now she always says just as she said the other night in our consultation "When we have sex we have great sex"
I was biting my tongue trying not to say. "no when we have sex YOU always have great sex I make sure of that by putting in the effort.
Now its not ALL bad. sometimes even vanilla can taste pretty good.
And there are rare...very rare moments when she puts forth the effort that she can be absolutely brilliant and its terrific for both of us. But those moments are few and far between.
Its the lack of effort on her part that to me is the most frustrating
I could go on with several pages on this subject alone. Not all of them really complaints, just differences in attitudes.
but I'll cover things as the thread dictates.
Financial
Being a contractor in the northeast things can get slow in the winter. Sometimes VERY slow. Particularly between now and Easter. And money can become very tight
This obviously causes friction. Thing is living in NJ there is a certaqin amount of money I HAVE to be able to make yearly just to survive here and meet our current bills. I cant make the kind of money I do make on my own working for someone else. and even if I could. I'd still be subject to the yearly slowdown. Only moreso because the worker always gets laid off before the owner runs out of work.
And the problem isnt completely the slowdown. Its the spending when I am making alot of money.(we both spend too much) And HER spending whenever things get tight.
Example. I had to put on hoild an exteriour I was doing because it got too cold both early in the morning and later in the afternoon. Which reduced the amount of time I could work on it to only a couple of hours a day.
Problem was my next customer cancelled out on me at the last minute without telling me which left me in limbo for about a week before I could start something else.
so money was tight for a couple of weeks.
Does she tighten the belt and be patient? No.
She takes money she did have and spends $300 on a new bed for my daughter which she didnt need.
She's VERY impulsive that way.
She gets angry or frustrated. She goes shopping.
Thats how I ended up with a pool and a king sized trampoline in my backyard.
Neither of which I particularly wanted.
Then she will look at her brother. also in business. and I think she gets jealous that he can always buy a new BMW. Take trips to europe. etc etc and we cant. And of course its MY fault.
Well maybe it is. At least to a certain extent. I dont claim to be completely without fault or blame.
But then again Im not the one who currently has his lawyer postponing a sentancing thats going ot send me to jail for a few years for bribing public officails either.
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Whiner
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well.. I was serious.
If you are comfortable pretending to be someone that they like then do that.. otherwise.. show em who you are from the gate.
I let women list all my flaws if it makes em happy.. I even agree with most of the "evaluation" I only tell em to shut up when they offer the "solution".. I don't want a solution.. I am quite happy with the way I am.
lazs
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I'm glad you clarified that banana split comment. :)
You've certainly got the two big marriage issues on this one Dred...sex and money.
Hope things improve.
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Mrs Dred needs a job. And a course on budgeting.
And if she can't do that, Mr Dred should look for a younger model :)
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I do admit that both of my divorces were worth every penny. You have no idea how misserable you are until the source no longer exists.
Life is so much better now.
lazs
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Been there, done that. Personally, now I believe Smith and Wesson make the best marriage counselors.
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Originally posted by AGM65
Been there, done that. Personally, now I believe Smith and Wesson make the best marriage counselors.
:huh Sure thing Mr. Grant. They allow you a computer in jail?
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Originally posted by AGM65
Been there, done that. Personally, now I believe Smith and Wesson make the best marriage counselors.
That sounds just like my brother in law...
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I've done some pre-marriage couseling, but because she and I had been living together for 2-3 years we had a lot of married couple issues. Contrary to what most here have experienced, the psychologist (female) was very even handed and even took my side on a few key points, saying that my lady was behaving irrationally. Imagine that.:lol
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I bought this about 6 or so years ago , after listening to her info half hour spot on TV :)
http://www.lightyourfire.com/index.htm
I think I got my moneys worth . I felt at the time my marriage could be better . After listening to all the tapes for men ( one set for men , one for women ) I found out that I had a lot to learn .
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During out first session other then some talking he handed us each a sheet of paper witha list of things on them he called "the circle of power"
On that sheet he had us draw a circle of everytng for exa,ple I felt she did to me. Then draw a line through everything that I felt I did to her.
she did the same.
Im guessing its for future refrence of for them to get a baseline on us because we handed him the sheets and he just put them in a folder.
Next when we go back we are supposed to go into seperate rooms for something like 8 weeks of seperate group therapy. Then we go back in together for another 8 weeks or something like that
Its run by several people as opposed to just going to see one person we are supposed to be meeting with several people there.
I guess each has their own speciialty I dont kow.
Time will tell.
He did tell us that our complaints were pretty typical of the couples that go in for counceling. Not sure if thats good or bad LOL
Or if he was just saying that to try to provide some sort of reassurance that all is not necessarily lost.
Dunno. I'll just go into it with an open mind and see how it goes
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Well, at least you guys are trying to make it better. It could always be worse.
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Yep.
Good luck Dred :aok
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i have had only 1 session with a marriage councellor..i spoke my mind,let it all out and she was so shocked she barely said a word after that.
Dred..did you know about her bi-ness before you tied the knot?That is the ultimate betrayal if not.
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Marriage counseling: Wasting some money before the divorce.