Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SteveBailey on January 11, 2008, 10:14:32 AM
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A man shouted through an opening in the wall that his wife was illegal.
No woman is illegal," Clinton said, to cheers.
Not taken out of context. Do open borders and the fiscal disaster they mean seriously appeal to you?
http://www.lvrj.com/news/13702902.html
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She's angling for the Hispanic vote. She know's there are a bunch of those out there now, in the south-western' states.
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"People know that Hillary is the best choice for real," he said. "They try to confuse the workers, but the workers are smarter."
:rofl
In the restaurant's foyer, Ruben Beltran, 53, was carryng a "Culinary Workers for Hillary" sign. He didn't know where it came from; someone had given it to him.
why do I feel like I'm watching "Wag the Dog"
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In broken English, one woman told Clinton how she wasn't making money as a broker anymore.
"I have no income at all," she said. "So how will I survive?"
Hey I’ve got a solution, learn English:mad:
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Haven't we had open borders and fiscal disaster the last 7 years?
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Originally posted by Mojava
Haven't we had open borders and fiscal disaster the last 7 years?
Are you voting on the past?
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Not taken out of context. Do open borders and the fiscal disaster they mean seriously appeal to you?
http://www.lvrj.com/news/13702902.html
I've said this before.
Why the right wing has suddenly become so obsessed with illegal immigration reform is beyond me. I assume they needed to "make a issue" to campaign on.
The republicans have had almost 8 years of power, controlling both ends of the govt. Yet what did they do about illegal immigration? Why is it now suddenly an issue that didn't take much of a thought the last 7 years?
Could it be they needed some issue to get behind to make the sheep scared? I'd say yea that 'likely the real issue.
Steve we have had illegal immigration issues for years and years. Even after 9/11 what did Bush do to secure our boarders? Nothing.
All the billions of dollars getting tossed out to this contractor or that contractor, yet he took away funding for the boarder patrol.
I'm sorry but when I hear Right wingers acting as if illegal immigration is "suddenly" some big issue. Well it gives me a good chuckle to say the least.
No offense meant to you Steve, I'm just posting as I see it. I'm not trying to bash the right wingers on this board either, but honestly what have the Republicans done in the last 10 years about illegal immigration? Other than talk tough that is.
I just really want to know why it's suddenly a big issue now that elections are getting close. BTW the Democrat controlled congress has given the boarder patrol more funding, even though Bush tried to stop it.
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Originally posted by Mojava
Haven't we had open borders and fiscal disaster the last 7 years?
lol
right - it wasn't an issue before was it?
another bush hating ijit
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Originally posted by crockett
I've said this before.
Why the right wing has suddenly become so obsessed with illegal immigration reform is beyond me. I assume they needed to "make a issue" to campaign on.
The republicans have had almost 8 years of power, controlling both ends of the govt. Yet what did they do about illegal immigration? Why is it now suddenly an issue that didn't take much of a thought the last 7 years?
Could it be they needed some issue to get behind to make the sheep scared? I'd say yea that 'likely the real issue.
Steve we have had illegal immigration issues for years and years. Even after 9/11 what did Bush do to secure our boarders? Nothing.
All the billions of dollars getting tossed out to this contractor or that contractor, yet he took away funding for the boarder patrol.
I'm sorry but when I hear Right wingers acting as if illegal immigration is "suddenly" some big issue. Well it gives me a good chuckle to say the least.
No offense meant to you Steve, I'm just posting as I see it. I'm not trying to bash the right wingers on this board either, but honestly what have the Republicans done in the last 10 years about illegal immigration? Other than talk tough that is.
I just really want to know why it's suddenly a big issue now that elections are getting close. BTW the Democrat controlled congress has given the boarder patrol more funding, even though Bush tried to stop it.
You mistakenly assume Bush to be 'right-wing'...he isn't, nor are most of the Republican portion of the Senate. Some think it's simply the Christian thing to do (ok...there are BILLIONS of poor slobs in this world, can we take tham ALL?), and some others think these poor, illiterate Mexicans are gonna vote Republican/big business/conservative when the opportunity presents itself..(:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl ), and some others are afraid of offending LEGAL hispanics, and don't wish to appear racist.
I think it's racist to think that all Hispanics are of a like mind on this matter---If you ever mistake a Puerto-Rican for a Mexican you will see my point. Bush isn't any different on the border than was Clinton or Bush Sr. before him
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Originally posted by bj229r
You mistakenly assume Bush to be 'right-wing'...he isn't, nor are most of the Republican portion of the Senate. Some think it's simply the Christian thing to do (ok...there are BILLIONS of poor slobs in this world, can we take tham ALL?), and some others think these poor, illiterate Mexicans are gonna vote Republican/big business/conservative when the opportunity presents itself..(:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl ), and some others are afraid of offending LEGAL hispanics, and don't wish to appear racist.
I think it's racist to think that all Hispanics are of a like mind on this matter---If you ever mistake a Puerto-Rican for a Mexican you will see my point. Bush isn't any different on the border than was Clinton or Bush Sr. before him
Well it's just the point I'm trying to make. Illegal immigration is just being used as a "campaign slogan" by the Republicans. If they were actually going to do anything about it, well don't yea think they would have already done it?
The simple fact is, as much as we hate to admit it. The illegals help us just as much as they hurt it. It's like a love hate dysfunctional relationship.
On one hand they cost us billions of dollars every year. On the other hand they save us billions of dollars each year by providing cheap labor. How much you think you would be paying at the grocery store for food, if farmers were paying union wages? $10 a gal milk sound good? $8 carton of eggs sound good?
The simple fact is we depend on the cheap labor illegals provide, and that's the exact reason they will never do anything about the problem. The only real solution, is to give them temp work visas.
You can build all the walls you want, but as long as there are people willing to hire them, well they will keep coming.
If we really wanted to do something about the problem, we would fine the people whom hire them. Soon as you start fining a company $5k-10k per illegal worker. Well I bet you there will suddenly be a lot less of them.
You think any politician is gonna stick his neck out there and do that? Yea right think again.
So the point I'm trying to make here, is just ignore pretty much anything a politician says about illegal imagrants because it's BS anyway doesn't matter if it's coming from the right or the left.
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No, as long as they are available to hire, people will keep hiring them. There's a big difference between the two.
Sure, it will be expensive immediately as they all get kicked out. But soon, someone will invent a process for each of those things which will lower their cost.
But then again, asking a socialist to understand a free market is like asking a Monkey to understand calculus.
Don't assume that most of the Republicans today are right wing. A lot of Republicans supported the back room amnesty bill that ALMOST got pushed through. If it weren't for public outrage, they would have had it.
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Originally posted by crockett
Well it's just the point I'm trying to make. Illegal immigration is just being used as a "campaign slogan" by the Republicans.
The only point you ever make is that of a liberal imbecile.
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This video clip pretty much sums it all up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWpU8sX10_4
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Originally posted by Bodhi
The only point you ever make is that of a liberal imbecile.
Yet you act like the stereotypical right winger.. the ones that give the others a bad name. You can't seem to reply with any intelligence, just useless babble.
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No offense meant to you Steve, I'm just posting as I see it. I'm not trying to bash the right wingers on this board either, but honestly what have the Republicans done in the last 10 years about illegal immigration? Other than talk tough that is.
None taken. Conservatives have been screaming about it for years. Repubs "talk tough" about it to try to appease the conservatives. The conservatives are just as fed up w/ Bush's non action as anyone else... moreso in fact becuase we feel so betrayed by Bush.
Please understand, Bush may be a republican, but he is not right wing, not a conservative.
The simple fact is we depend on the cheap labor illegals provide
Exactly what did we do before all this cheap labor? Illegals largely replaced unions in the meatpacking industry but I noticed no drop in meat prices. Other than saying something "completely speculative like: imagine what the prices would be." Why didn't prices go down? Show me this fantastic benefit of which you speak.
we really wanted to do something about the problem, we would fine the people whom hire them. Soon as you start fining a company $5k-10k per illegal worker. Well I bet you there will suddenly be a lot less of them.You think any politician is gonna stick his neck out there and do that? Yea right think again.
Umm this law went into effect in Az on Jan 1. illegals started leaving before this as a result
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The reason we are paying close attention to illegal immigration is due to the obvious terror threats. The border is pourous and the 9/11 terrorists exploited the visa program as well. (We voted to add better protection and new fences. Then the Democrats defunded the approved fence program. Nice, eh?)
So there's one angle.
And the other is simply financial.
While I know there are many immigrants who want to come here, work and pay their fair share, not all do. Many wish to come here, elude taxation, reap free services and persuit this "Im entitled to it" attitude. This goes hand in hand with the liberal democrats mantra.
Those of us who work for a living, pay our taxes and abide the law find this blantant behavior, as well as protests demanding anmesty, truly outrageous.
Breaking the law should always have consequences, such as the illegal immigration. Ship em home. That's the law. Let's enforce that for once, rather than playing us the "awwww"/sympathy angle in the media.
Like Steve, I work in healthcare and can tell you how hard we get hit with folks who need our services and cant pay. Nor will they ever.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Are you voting on the past?
I thought prez can have only two terms in the US?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
No, as long as they are available to hire, people will keep hiring them. There's a big difference between the two.
Sure, it will be expensive immediately as they all get kicked out. But soon, someone will invent a process for each of those things which will lower their cost.
But then again, asking a socialist to understand a free market is like asking a Monkey to understand calculus.
Don't assume that most of the Republicans today are right wing. A lot of Republicans supported the back room amnesty bill that ALMOST got pushed through. If it weren't for public outrage, they would have had it.
Lasersailor, I would say that the amnesty bill wasn't pushed through on the republican side, because of their bleeding hearts; It was because of the bleeding wallets' of some of their constituents. Greedy bastards' that are willing to spend some money on buying a congressman's vote, because they figure they can make it back and then some, in the long run. By hiring Illegal aliens', rather than the lawful citizens' that pay taxes, and are legal to work in those jobs. Think of it this way; If all the jobs' that were currently held by illegals' were to be turned over to Law-abiding U.S. citizens, What do you think the total effect on the economy would be? 10$ a gallon milk? Maybe, maybe not...because now all of those jobs are contributing to the tax base, the money earned by those people stays' in The U.S. and does not get sent to Mexico, So business's here get more business in turn. You might be able to say that the tax burden on everyone could go down a bit, with the increased tax base.
(It's hard to gauge the total overall effect on the economy because of various uknown factors, such as the ones inflicted on our economy today-our steadily declining stock market, the credit/banking crisis, our weakening dollar...)
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How does developing a renewable alternative fuel source equate fiscal disaster? Something that really surprised me about Hillary, she is really strong on promoting science and technology. Thats what this country needs.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Lasersailor, I would say that the amnesty bill wasn't pushed through on the republican side, because of their bleeding hearts; It was because of the bleeding wallets' of some of their constituents. Greedy bastards' that are willing to spend some money on buying a congressman's vote, because they figure they can make it back and then some, in the long run. By hiring Illegal aliens', rather than the lawful citizens' that pay taxes, and are legal to work in those jobs. Think of it this way; If all the jobs' that were currently held by illegals' were to be turned over to Law-abiding U.S. citizens, What do you think the total effect on the economy would be? 10$ a gallon milk? Maybe, maybe not...because now all of those jobs are contributing to the tax base, the money earned by those people stays' in The U.S. and does not get sent to Mexico, So business's here get more business in turn. You might be able to say that the tax burden on everyone could go down a bit, with the increased tax base.
(It's hard to gauge the total overall effect on the economy because of various uknown factors, such as the ones inflicted on our economy today-our steadily declining stock market, the credit/banking crisis, our weakening dollar...)
While that's a possibility, I tend more to believe that the republicans thought that they would be gaining a huge voting base.
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It proves that she thinks that women are more equal than men and that illegals are just another vote.
lazs
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What do you think the total effect on the economy would be? 10$ a gallon milk?
This is vapor. BS
If illegal aliens are the saviors you and others claim them to be, why didn't prices on things like milk drop dramatically when illegal aliens started invading the workforce in significance? where is the graph of milk prices steadily declining as more and more illegal aliens enter the work force?
Where?
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Well it's just the point I'm trying to make. Illegal immigration is just being used as a "campaign slogan" by the Republicans. If they were actually going to do anything about it, well don't yea think they would have already done it?
"Republicans" covers a lot of territory. From your (Crockett) aspect, ALL of them are 'right-wingers'----but the ones who have squealing HAD it with the open border and the 'bridge-to-nowhere' spending (moi, for one) are CONSERVATIVES, and without them, none of those panderers gets the GOP nomination.
Nothing was done about it before, because Bush wasn't behind it, nor was at least 1/4 of the Republican portion of the Senate---They were so out of touch with the folks who voted them in that they thought last spring's amnesty bill was going to well-received. The inside-the-beltway crowd actually thought the country was behind the amnesty bill.: 20-30 million illegals in the USA, and unemployment rising...I wonder who gets laid off first? THEN social services will be supporting these people---even when they were working, for every dollar an illegal earns he/she costs state/local/federal government 2 dollars. Even McCain admits he blew it by advocating the afore-mentioned bill, and he promises to seal the border before anything else, as has Huckabee, who can also read poll results. Not sure of Rudy
These illiterate 3rd world people help business to some extent, but at an overall negative to the public
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
None taken. Conservatives have been screaming about it for years. Repubs "talk tough" about it to try to appease the conservatives. The conservatives are just as fed up w/ Bush's non action as anyone else... moreso in fact becuase we feel so betrayed by Bush.
Please understand, Bush may be a republican, but he is not right wing, not a conservative.
Exactly what did we do before all this cheap labor? Illegals largely replaced unions in the meatpacking industry but I noticed no drop in meat prices. Other than saying something "completely speculative like: imagine what the prices would be." Why didn't prices go down? Show me this fantastic benefit of which you speak.
Umm this law went into effect in Az on Jan 1. illegals started leaving before this as a result
Yea I fully understand what you are saying.. Same thing happens in the construction industry here in Florida.
The problem is, AZ has yet to see what the long term effect of those illegals leaving will do to that states economy. Which is the point I'm making, there is both a positive and negative effect that will be felt.
Just because they were illegals doesn't mean they didn't shop at the local grocery stores, buy gas at the local gas stations.. Pay income tax and social security, not to mention rent homes ect.ect..
So for every job that's opened, (granted a low paying job) another job is effected because there are less customers.
It will be interresting to see how it works out in Az a year from now, if indead they are actually leaving. If it works well then it will be a model for other states to follow. It's good they are atleast trying something.
btw what is the industry that these illegals are working in Az?
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
This is vapor. BS
If illegal aliens are the saviors you and others claim them to be, why didn't prices on things like milk drop dramatically when illegal aliens started invading the workforce in significance? where is the graph of milk prices steadily declining as more and more illegal aliens enter the work force?
Where?
It's all about profits man. Why would they need to lower their prices, you forget this problem has come about over a long time. It just didn't happen over night.
Another thing, just because they might use illegal workers, doesn't mean they are paying them $2.50 a hour. Most illegals have fake id's /SS #'s so they are getting paid at least min wage and taxes /SS are taken out of that.
These companies aren't using illegals just so they can pay them $2.50/hr. They use them, because the illegals are willing to work at a low wage. It doesn't mean there are no Americans whom can't fill those jobs, but most Americans aren't willing to do that work that cheap.
You go from paying them $5.50 to $8 dollars an hour to then paying a union worker $10 to $15/hr.. Then tell me the price of milk and eggs isn't gonna go up.
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Originally posted by crockett
It's all about profits man. Why would they need to lower their prices, you forget this problem has come about over a long time. It just didn't happen over night.
Another thing, just because they might use illegal workers, doesn't mean they are paying them $2.50 a hour. Most illegals have fake id's /SS #'s so they are getting paid at least min wage and taxes /SS are taken out of that.
These companies aren't using illegals just so they can pay them $2.50/hr. They use them, because the illegals are willing to work at a low wage. It doesn't mean there are no Americans whom can't fill those jobs, but most Americans aren't willing to do that work that cheap.
You go from paying them $5.50 to $8 dollars an hour to then paying a union worker $10 to $15/hr.. Then tell me the price of milk and eggs isn't gonna go up.
It can be kept as it is now, only if the company is willing to cut fat out where it can (executive salary cuts, anyone?) or accept a little bit less of a profit margin. The real question is, will companies' simply use this as an excuse to raise prices.
If illegal aliens are the saviors you and others claim them to be, why didn't prices on things like milk drop dramatically when illegal aliens started invading the workforce in significance? where is the graph of milk prices steadily declining as more and more illegal aliens enter the work force?
LOL I'm sorry Steve, I didn't word that the best way. My point was, Alot of the price controls' are still decided by the company owners...Who might use any anti-immigration bill as an excuse. They don't have to. An american citizen can do this work, these' companies' that use illegals could pay a decent wage, but they don't want to cut into either excess overhead(executive salaries, see above) or profit margins'. In a sense, they are too greedy for our own good.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
How does developing a renewable alternative fuel source equate fiscal disaster? Something that really surprised me about Hillary, she is really strong on promoting science and technology. Thats what this country needs.
Where did that come from? Plus, Aquashrimp, if you remember, her husband said that he would not sign NAFTA if he got into office. He sure as hell did, thus proving that politicians' don't care a hoot about anything except getting into office, Then they're own agenda prevails, hell or high water.
Hillary's just now coming out loud with this, It's just a campaign lie.
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Originally posted by bj229r
"Republicans" covers a lot of territory. From your (Crockett) aspect, ALL of them are 'right-wingers'----but the ones who have squealing HAD it with the open border and the 'bridge-to-nowhere' spending (moi, for one) are CONSERVATIVES, and without them, none of those panderers gets the GOP nomination.
Nothing was done about it before, because Bush wasn't behind it, nor was at least 1/4 of the Republican portion of the Senate---They were so out of touch with the folks who voted them in that they thought last spring's amnesty bill was going to well-received. The inside-the-beltway crowd actually thought the country was behind the amnesty bill.: 20-30 million illegals in the USA, and unemployment rising...I wonder who gets laid off first? THEN social services will be supporting these people---even when they were working, for every dollar an illegal earns he/she costs state/local/federal government 2 dollars. Even McCain admits he blew it by advocating the afore-mentioned bill, and he promises to seal the border before anything else, as has Huckabee, who can also read poll results. Not sure of Rudy
These illiterate 3rd world people help business to some extent, but at an overall negative to the public
That's the problem I have with today's Right Wingers bj, is they aren't walking the walk they talk. Hell I might even be inclined to vote as a Republican "if" they actually walked the walk they talked.
Granted Democrats aren't much better but they are the best pick at this point.
If the current Republicans were actually for smaller govt lass taxes and the whole nine yards I'd support them. However they aren't for that.. They try to claim it but they are worse than the Democrats with spending.
When current crop of leading Republicans claims smaller govt.. what they mean is out sourcing to big business. When they claim lower taxes what they mean is less tax for the rich but screw the middle class.
The current crop of Republicans is all for big spending for Big Business welfare, but social programs for the poor equals socialism. In short they are nothing but hypocrites the Democrats might suck too, but they are the lesser of the two evils at this point and time.
btw the Bridge to Nowhere fiasco was thanks a Republican senator, one of the most corrupt SOB's in our govt. He should be taken out back and strung up by his neck. He is the type of Republican that makes me hate that party.
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Originally posted by crockett
He should be taken out back and strung up by his neck.
al sharpton wants to talk to you boy.
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Originally posted by john9001
al sharpton wants to talk to you boy.
Zing
:lol
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The dems don't want hillary.....BUT they've been so obsessed with "anything but Bush" for the last 7 or so years that they don't know what a real candidate looks like.
If she gets elected that will make 20 years of either a Bush or a Clinton in the white house.
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Originally posted by john9001
al sharpton wants to talk to you boy.
No it's a white guy.. al Sharpton don't care about the honkies.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
The dems don't want hillary.....BUT they've been so obsessed with "anything but Bush" for the last 7 or so years that they don't know what a real candidate looks like.
If she gets elected that will make 20 years of either a Bush or a Clinton in the white house.
One could say the same thing about the Republicans. "Anything but Hillary" seems to be common slang around here. I don't like Hillary either, but your damn right I'd vote for her before any of the Republicans whom are running. Hell at worst Case Bill would be the first man, so I don't think she could screw up too much.
I really don't like Hillary, not for her voting record, but because I think she would be a "divider" much the same as Bush is now. I don't think we need any more of that in this country, yet I'd still rather see her in office than one of the status que Republicans whom are running.
It's time for something new in this country rather than the same ole BS. Will we get it out of any of the current candidates? Likely not, but hey least we can hope.
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That's the problem I have with today's Right Wingers bj, is they aren't walking the walk they talk. Hell I might even be inclined to vote as a Republican "if" they actually walked the walk they talked.
The right wingers aren't in power.... how can we not be walking the talk? or whatever you typed.
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Originally posted by crockett
It's all about profits man. Why would they need to lower their prices, you forget this problem has come about over a long time. It just didn't happen over night.
Another thing, just because they might use illegal workers, doesn't mean they are paying them $2.50 a hour. Most illegals have fake id's /SS #'s so they are getting paid at least min wage and taxes /SS are taken out of that.
These companies aren't using illegals just so they can pay them $2.50/hr. They use them, because the illegals are willing to work at a low wage. It doesn't mean there are no Americans whom can't fill those jobs, but most Americans aren't willing to do that work that cheap.
There are plenty of people that would do these jobs.. they did them before.
So what did we do before all these illegal immigrants were in the work force? How did we manage to have affordable goods then? How?
I already said... illegals largely displaced unionized meatworkers and prices didn't go down.. why should I expect them to go up if they leave? You have absolutely no evidence that prices will go up.. none whatsoever... merely fearmongering conjecture.
There is no proof anywhere that illegal aliens are a benefit to our society... there is only supposition and conjecture that the economy will somehow collapse if they leave. Yet there is proof that illegal aliens are a large drain on community resources... proof that whereever they go, they have a higher crimerate than citizens,
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
The right wingers aren't in power.... how can we not be walking the talk? or whatever you typed.
The problem is that GWBush ran as a compassionate consrevative.. Right wing lite. Then he did many things that true conservatives dislike.
The first thing he did was to work with Teddy and bring more federal control to education.
The difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Demos believe in and work for the wrong policies, and the Repubs say they don't and still end up doing it anyway.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The problem is that GWBush ran as a compassionate consrevative.. Right wing lite. Then he did many things that true conservatives dislike.
you're right... he fooled and betrayed conservatives. For his re-election, in spite of his unremarkable record, Bush was a better choice than that extremist Kerry.*
* a conservative viewpoint... not trying to change anyone's opinion.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
you're right... he fooled and betrayed conservatives. For his re-election, in spite of his unremarkable record, Bush was a better choice than that extremist Kerry.*
* a conservative viewpoint... not trying to change anyone's opinion.
not to mention Algore.
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I don't think anyone supports illegal immigration. That would an indefensible position.
Illegal immigrants have done the dirty work for generations. Legal immigrants did many of them also because showing up at a port of entry and not having any communicable disease was all you needed to gain legal entry. That's how it was done in the past. The immigration laws have changed. The US, not unlike any other developed nation, allows only the cute and fuzzy immigrants now - the educated and rich ones - to immigrate. Unskilled laborers cannot immigrate now, so the low-skill positions are filled by many illegals. Americans are not lining up to fill out applications for those positions. If they were, they would be working in them.
Prices didn't go down with lower wages; executive, owner and investor compensation went up. Prices only go down when forced down by competition, not by reducing costs. Prices go up whenever any reason that sounds plausible can be thought up.
As usual, lot's of talk about problems, but never any action. One man's solution is another man's economic loss. It would help Arizona (the highest violent crime rate in the US, higher than South Africa and other 3rd-world countries) if the US enforced the federal immigration laws with employers. The federal government is doing things it shouldn't be doing and few of the things it should be doing.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
The problem is that GWBush ran as a compassionate consrevative.. Right wing lite. Then he did many things that true conservatives dislike.
The first thing he did was to work with Teddy and bring more federal control to education.
The difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Demos believe in and work for the wrong policies, and the Repubs say they don't and still end up doing it anyway.
Remember the "old days" when the Republicans were the majority in both the House and Senate? How we had to do this "power sharing" thing to make some real progress?
Funny I dont see any "power sharing" going on now that the Dems are in the majority.
McCain was one of those band of idiots who squandered the chance to push through some true Conservative ideas....instead they spent like idiots and acheived nothing asides losing badly in the next election.
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Originally posted by Rolex
I don't think anyone supports illegal immigration. That would an indefensible position.
Illegal immigrants have done the dirty work for generations. Legal immigrants did many of them also because showing up at a port of entry and not having any communicable disease was all you needed to gain legal entry. That's how it was done in the past. The immigration laws have changed. The US, not unlike any other developed nation, allows only the cute and fuzzy immigrants now - the educated and rich ones - to immigrate. Unskilled laborers cannot immigrate now, so the low-skill positions are filled by many illegals. Americans are not lining up to fill out applications for those positions. If they were, they would be working in them.
That's where you're wrong.
Take that Meat Packing plant in Colorado. INS showed up one day and cleaned out the illegal immigrants.
THE VERY NEXT DAY, there were more then enough applicants to fill out all the positions lost.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
That's where you're wrong.
Take that Meat Packing plant in Colorado. INS showed up one day and cleaned out the illegal immigrants.
THE VERY NEXT DAY, there were more then enough applicants to fill out all the positions lost.
I remember reading of that.
This idea that somehow our economy will collapse without illegals is a pipe dream. Those illegals are TAKING jobs away from workers. Just because you wont pick fruit, veggies or other low wage jobs, someone else might.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
The right wingers aren't in power.... how can we not be walking the talk? or whatever you typed.
Were you in a coma the last 8 years? Jesus man the Dem's just took control of the house and senate what 6 months ago or something? Is everything already their fault?
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Let me know when you get a few hundred thousand more samples in your analysis.
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Originally posted by crockett
Were you in a coma the last 8 years? Jesus man the Dem's just took control of the house and senate what 6 months ago or something? Is everything already their fault?
THE RIGHT WINGERS WERE NOT IN POWER.
What do you not understand about this? Are you in a coma now?
Why is it too complicated for you to see the difference between a conservative and a republican?
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Originally posted by crockett
Were you in a coma the last 8 years? Jesus man the Dem's just took control of the house and senate what 6 months ago or something? Is everything already their fault?
Umm, a year actually. Someone needs to heed their own "wake up" advice.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
THE RIGHT WINGERS WERE NOT IN POWER.
What do you not understand about this? Are you in a coma now?
Why is it too complicated for you to see the difference between a conservative and a republican?
Sounds like you are Bush hater :)
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shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
Sounds like you are Bush hater :)
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shamus
I disapprove of the job he's done... and that he misled conservatives.... yup I don't like the guy.
His domestic policy has really sucked... beyond controlling any tax raises.
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I know it looks tacky, I really should have put in a bit more effort, but....
Without further ado, I give you...
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a217/sarahjeanb/pinkF22RaptorEX.jpg)
THE DEMOCRAT F22 RAPTOR!
*cue wild cheering and panty throwing from the Billiary camp*
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I'm glad that this is the last year of the Bush presidency. The hatred of the man that has been such a part of the political scene since the controversial election of 2000 has grown so vehement and vitriolic that the government stands on the brink of becoming permanently partisan.
Yet, the election of Hillary or Obama fills me with foreboding. Whether it's the thought that they are being championed by a section of the population that wants to forget the foreign threat, and hope to be lulled back to sleep, or that they will gut the military to pay for social spending and "national health care", the feeling I have is that they will break the bank. The war may be expensive, but wars are transient events...and the expenses short-term, relatively speaking....while government run programs such as social security and "national health care" turn into never-ending boondoggles.
Health care could use some price controls, but total government regulation...you gotta be kidding.
Don't even get me started on the second amendment. On that issue, Clinton and Obama and I have absolutely nothing in common. By the time they get through passing their versions of "gun-control" the only people left armed in the country would be the police, the military, and criminal gangs.
No thank you. If worst comes to worst, I'll hold my nose and vote for Huckabee...
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Hillary Clinton's energy plan :
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/energy/
Hillary Clinton's science and technology plan:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/innovation/
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Originally posted by SD67
I know it looks tacky, I really should have put in a bit more effort, but....
Without further ado, I give you...
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a217/sarahjeanb/pinkF22RaptorEX.jpg)
THE DEMOCRAT F22 RAPTOR!
*cue wild cheering and panty throwing from the Billiary camp*
Unless of course, Edwards somehow wins. In his efforts to woo the Daily Kos crowd, he has promised to cancel the F35 and F22, as well as dismantle our nuclear capability, (including missile defense) to show the rest of the world our 'good faith':rofl :rofl :rofl I wonder if he realizes almost all manufacturing plants of such things are union:lol
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A study found that pastel colored planes are the least-likely to be detected visually at night.
Source: Wings (F-117 episode)
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aqua.. Did you read hillarys energy plan? She is going to tell you what you can drive and she is going to make sure that gas it much much higher priced at the pump..
Now how is that going to help the poor and middle class? the rich will be driving and not the poor?
A better energy plan is to take all government taxes off of fuel so that the poor can afford it while private industry is coming up with new energy alternatives.. and to lessen restrictions on nuke plants and new refineries and allow more offshore and wilderness drilling. Hillary and her government could not invent anything and they don't have a dime to spend on anything.. they can't even afford the socialism that they have now like welfare and social security and medicare and many more..
Not to mention.. healthcare? who the hell do you think is going to pay for all this stuff?
lazs
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We are going to spend the money one way or another. We can keep spending it on the Iraqis, or we can pull our troops out and spend it on Americans. Hillary favors the second idea, so do I.
There might be a spike in gas prices. But at the same time, cars are going to be mandated to be more fuel efficient. Plus there is still the elasticity of demand. If oil companies raise gas prices too much, people will stop traveling, gas sales will go down. It'll reach a happy medium.
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US oil companies don't set the price of oil, and nothing except increasing supply or decreasing demand will change that. We arguably COULD increase supply, but nearly ALL Dems and quite a few Republicans won't allow drilling where there are LARGE know deposits. So now Cuba is drilling near FLA's coast, instead of US. As more folks from India and China move into the 21st (or even the 20th) century, their consumption levels will increase exponentially, and forcig us all to drive Geo Metros will have been for naught
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aqua.. everything will indeed work out.. you don't need government to "mandate" anything.. their regulations on exploration and refineries and nuke plants are what got us into this mess this soon in the first place.
the more they touch the worse things get.. and.. I would rather spend the money on a war or simply put it in a big pile and burn it. wars get paid for in a few years.. a burn pile doesn't cost more than the initial investment to get it burning...
social programs grow exponentially.. social programs start small and compassionate and sensible and end up a huge crushing wieght that grows and grows every year.
Better to burn the money in a big pile... better yet.. war.. someone gets something out of war and it develops all sorts of advances in material and medicine.. and.. it ends.. and it gets paid for.
lazs