Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on January 11, 2008, 03:47:10 PM
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Kalifornia is at it again???
Or their thinkin about it............
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,321970,00.html
Not sure this is the answer.
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wow, that sounds smart... :rolleyes: spend millions of dollars on radio controlled thermostats, spend a couple of years writing regulations and manuals and procedures and then invade people's homes to prevent a problem they say only happens rarely every few years or so... instead of say taking that time and money and used it to improve the electrical grid and power companies and prevent the rolling brownouts and blackouts, cause.. gosh, you dont want your computer to go down do ya?
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Or, take that money and spend it on educating the public on energy conservation.
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Originally posted by Fulmar
Or, take that money and spend it on educating the public on energy conservation.
Yep. Or spend it on upgrading to more enegry efficent a/c and heater units, applicances, and equipment...
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Or kick all the illegals out so less people are using our energy.
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The 4th reply! A new record.
Instead of a bunch of options that start with "take the money and", I suggest that they NOT spend the fracking money because it isn't theirs to spend.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
The 4th reply! A new record.
Instead of a bunch of options that start with "take the money and", I suggest that they NOT spend the fracking money because it isn't theirs to spend.
AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGG GHHHHHHHHHHHH
I'm in TROUBLE NOW!
I actually agree with Chairboy:rofl
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Another wax seal just broke, great.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
The 4th reply! A new record.
Instead of a bunch of options that start with "take the money and", I suggest that they NOT spend the fracking money because it isn't theirs to spend.
Yup, the problem here is people thinking that it has to be spent on anything.
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The best thing about progressive California is they are a demonstratedly exemplary example, of where not to go.
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I will make a demand
If Kalifornia doesnt give me 1 billion dollars in US currency, I will turn up the heat in everyones homes to..............1 million degrees!
(http://arbyte.us/blog_archive/2005/11/drevil_million_dollars.jpg)
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Hey lazs, who says you can't control the weather? :p
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Don't fret. I'm certain it won't affect Nevada, Texas, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Oregon, or Illinois.
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what socialists would like is if we all lived in the city in a hive.. it would be easy then to control the temp and... all aspects of our life..
The country would remain pristene for them to build summer and winter house in.. they, after all.. deserve algore like mansions in the country.
1984 utopia is their goal. perfection. nothing less will do. Individuals really mess with perfection and utopia tho.. they need to be squashed.
lazs
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i remember removing the electric companies "control boxes off the ac compressor..they could turn it off during peak demands in the summer...olololll... right..how about you go f your self slimy Democratic Limp wristed scum
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Originally posted by Meatwad
I will make a demand
If Kalifornia doesnt give me 1 billion dollars in US currency, I will turn up the heat in everyones homes to..............1 million degrees!
(http://arbyte.us/blog_archive/2005/11/drevil_million_dollars.jpg)
Nice try, buddy. The system can't be hacked... that's unpossible!
Mr. Somsel, in an interview Thursday, said he had done further research and was concerned that the radio signal — or the Internet instructions that would be sent, in an emergency, from utilities’ central control stations to the broadcasters sending the FM signal — could be hacked into.
That is not possible, said Nicole Tam, a spokeswoman for P.G.& E. who works with the pilot program in Stockton. Radio pages “are encrypted and encoded,” Ms. Tam said.
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Ha! I bet he was on the company that made the unhackable Digital Voting Machines.
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its starting to sound like a science fiction movie. its disturbing. imagine what new "controls" they will come up with if we hand them the keys to our health care... (it will be for our own good of course)
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Originally posted by Gunthr
its starting to sound like a science fiction movie. its disturbing. imagine what new "controls" they will come up with if we hand them the keys to our health care... (it will be for our own good of course)
You laugh, but it is happening. In Britain, they stole a fat kid "For his own good" from the parents.
In Maryland (might be wrong about the state), Child Welfare was ABOUT to steal a kid from the parents. After many different attempts to cure the kid's cancer, nothing worked (the kid was 15-16). The kid decided himself that he'd like to try a holistic natural approach to cure the cancer in mexico rather then endure another round of Chemotherapy. Child Welfare filed many injunctions against the parents, and were literally suiting up to kidnap him and force him to get chemotherapy. Had the case not gone public, they would have done it.
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Looks like that recall election fixed everything afterall.
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rpm... it coulda been a lot worse if the commie democrat had got in.
lazs
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You hand-wringers need to realize that electricity is not an infinite resource.
I can't speak for the northern urban centers, but from our vantage in the more rural high desert, it seems that Los Angeles and the surrounding cities are nothing but a giant sponge, consuming resources far beyond their own city limits. Water, power, oil, you name it... it just feeds the monster.
...and all along the citizens of the urban sprawl act as if they have the right to consume as much as they can afford.
Power generation in California is well on its way to being a huge problem for the future.
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Originally posted by Sandman
...and all along the citizens of the urban sprawl act as if they have the right to consume as much as they can afford.
They DO have the right to consume as much as they can afford.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
They DO have the right to consume as much as they can afford.
Not without shame unless they pay someone to plant a bunch of trees somewhere.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Not without shame unless they pay someone to plant a bunch of trees somewhere.
That assumes I feel shamed by it.
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Wouldn't it be cheaper just to build a new power plant? Sounds like half the other idiotic laws people in our govt think up, but never get voted in.
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Originally posted by crockett
Wouldn't it be cheaper just to build a new power plant? Sounds like half the other idiotic laws people in our govt think up, but never get voted in.
You would think... but hydro-electric dams are pretty much out of the question these days. With pollution control a concern, coal power-plants aren't considered an option. And lastly, there are nuclear power-plants. I'm not sure anyone has built a nuke power-plant in the US in the past couple of decades.
So... that leaves wind turbines, solar collectors, tidal generators... all expensive and all not suited for large urban center electricity needs.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You would think... but hydro-electric dams are pretty much out of the question these days. With pollution control a concern, coal power-plants aren't considered an option. And lastly, there are nuclear power-plants. I'm not sure anyone has built a nuke power-plant in the US in the past couple of decades.
So... that leaves wind turbines, solar collectors, tidal generators... all expensive and all not suited for large urban center electricity needs.
Natural-gas fired Co-generation plants. For those of you who are unfamiliar with them, this is essentially what they are: A Natural-gas fired turbine which is geared to a generator. The heat from the turbine exhaust is used to produce steam, which in turn runs a steam turbine, which runs yet another generator. Co-gens(as they are called in the industry) usually have 2 or more primary(gas fueled) turbines, with 2 or 3 primary's providing steam for a steam unit.
Over the last 6 years' or so, 4-5 of them have been built within 50 miles' of my house. I actually worked on the last one that went up. From what I've been told, They made profit at something like $100,000 dollars a minute(!).
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So not only does the burning of the gas give power, but the exhaust drives another generator for more power?
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Natural-gas fired Co-generation plants. For those of you who are unfamiliar with them, this is essentially what they are: A Natural-gas fired turbine which is geared to a generator. The heat from the turbine exhaust is used to produce steam, which in turn runs a steam turbine, which runs yet another generator. Co-gens(as they are called in the industry) usually have 2 or more primary(gas fueled) turbines, with 2 or 3 primary's providing steam for a steam unit.
Over the last 6 years' or so, 4-5 of them have been built within 50 miles' of my house. I actually worked on the last one that went up. From what I've been told, They made profit at something like $100,000 dollars a minute(!).
Wow... in Bakersfield. Never would have guessed it.
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Originally posted by Sandman
And lastly, there are nuclear power-plants. I'm not sure anyone has built a nuke power-plant in the US in the past couple of decades.
Sure there are new units in the states.. I'm an operator at one.. Also, my employer is building a new site with 2 new units right now with other units in the planning.. Nuke power is the future..
Edit: Well, its not brand new but rebuilt/refitted and up-powered.. New sites are being constructed though.. google 'TVA Nuclear' if interested.. The only government agency (that i'm aware of) that takes zero tax money and actually repays it's loans back to the government.. 8)
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Natural-gas fired Co-generation plants. For those of you who are unfamiliar with them, this is essentially what they are: A Natural-gas fired turbine which is geared to a generator. The heat from the turbine exhaust is used to produce steam, which in turn runs a steam turbine, which runs yet another generator. Co-gens(as they are called in the industry) usually have 2 or more primary(gas fueled) turbines, with 2 or 3 primary's providing steam for a steam unit.
Over the last 6 years' or so, 4-5 of them have been built within 50 miles' of my house. I actually worked on the last one that went up. From what I've been told, They made profit at something like $100,000 dollars a minute(!).
I've never heard/seen any gas turbine that could generate over 100 megawatts with most being around 40-50megawatts.. Most applications of these gas turbines I thought were for on-site industrial applications either as primary or secondary power supplies..
You're familiar with these being used as a residential application?
Far as money, I could see them costing $100,000 a day to operate.. hehe Not so much a profit of $100,000 even in a day.. 8)
Edit: I was wrong.. there are some large scale gas turbine projects..
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wow sandman.. LA has such a poor planning commission and development team that they can't come up with anything but radio controlled thermostats?
the way you do it is that you let the price go up. continue to live there and pay... then.. if someone wants to build.. you tell them that before they build that 5,000 home tract.. they have to pay their share of the new power plant... and water plant and wastewater plant and parks and streets and....
either people build or they don't.. either people pay the increased power bills or they leave.. either way... problem solved
Just like every other competent city does in the US. Do you really not know this stuff?
lazs
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brilliant...
radio controlled thermostats.
All it takes is one lunatic to figure out the codes and frequency and set all the city's temperature gauges to maximum.
And the city burns.
OTH, since its california maybe it wouldnt be so bad. ;)
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Originally posted by Tac
brilliant...
radio controlled thermostats.
All it takes is one lunatic to figure out the codes and frequency and set all the city's temperature gauges to maximum.
And the city burns.
OTH, since its california maybe it wouldnt be so bad. ;)
While I don't think the city would literally burn, an overload and subsequent shutdown of the grid is very possible. The idiot that claimed the system is hack proof is, well, an idiot. People survived without electricty for a whole lot longer than with it though and the loss of it won't be life threatening for most Californians at any time of year.
For the record, I think it's still a stupid communist plan.
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Originally posted by lazs2
wow sandman.. LA has such a poor planning commission and development team that they can't come up with anything but radio controlled thermostats?
the way you do it is that you let the price go up. continue to live there and pay... then.. if someone wants to build.. you tell them that before they build that 5,000 home tract.. they have to pay their share of the new power plant... and water plant and wastewater plant and parks and streets and....
either people build or they don't.. either people pay the increased power bills or they leave.. either way... problem solved
Just like every other competent city does in the US. Do you really not know this stuff?
lazs
In other words... more taxes.
Read the 2008 Building Energy Efficiency Standards (http://www.energy.ca.gov/2007publications/CEC-400-2007-017/CEC-400-2007-017-45DAY.PDF), page 63.
During "price events" the thermostat can be over-ridden. During "emergency events" it cannot.
There is pilot program in Stockton already. There is an existing system on Long Island in New York that is voluntary. Customers get a rate reduction for participating.
It only affects new houses and those that will change the energy systems. People will like it or they won't. They'll either go along with it or they'll leave. Either way, problem solved.
All in all... it sounds like a reasonable alternative to rolling blackouts and my guess is it's far less expensive than simply building more power-plants.
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no.. I don't think you are getting it at all. the program will not work. and.. At this point, they really can't control anything.. you can override it.
I did not suggest more taxes. what I said was that the current residents are responsible for maintaining the current infrastructure if they want to use it.
New development needs to pay for the share that they increase on the load. If new development thinks it is worth it they will build.. if not.. no problem but..
current city dwellers who want power need to pay for maintaining the current system.
It is pretty simple stuff really until you start clouding up the whole thing with band aid silliness like these thermostats.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the program will not work.
I guess we'll see about that when they finish the pilot program in Stockton.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I guess we'll see about that when they finish the pilot program in Stockton.
There SEEMS to always be someone that cheers the loss of freedom and self determination?
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Originally posted by wrag
There SEEMS to always be someone that cheers the loss of freedom and self determination?
If you're feeling repressed, you can always determine to build your own generator. Wind and sun are free.
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Originally posted by Sandman
If you're feeling repressed, you can always determine to build your own generator. Wind and sun are free.
Of course!
WHY EVERYONE SHOULD!
RIGHT?
Never mind that you paid for the power you got, and will pay for the power you will get.
Let's just ignore the entire Enron thing while we're at it! Too inconvenient huh?
How about those that WANT to be controlled all get together and BUILD their own generators and have them controlled?
Or lets instead do what YOU want lets reward all that bad planning and greed and corruption by giving them even MORE power and control over us! YES that the ticket!
<<< ok can't type what I really want to say here so gonna stop for now >>>
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Originally posted by wrag
Or lets instead do what YOU want lets reward all that bad planning and greed and corruption by giving them even MORE power and control over us! YES that the ticket!
You're a bit worked up for a non-California resident.
I may be out on a limb here, but I'm fairly certain that California's 2008 Building Energy Efficiency Standards don't apply to Nevada residents.
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" They'll either go along with it or they'll leave."
or they'll disconnect the stupid thing.
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Originally posted by Sandman
You're a bit worked up for a non-California resident.
I may be out on a limb here, but I'm fairly certain that California's 2008 Building Energy Efficiency Standards don't apply to Nevada residents.
You think such things are only going to remain in Kalifornia?
BTW was BORN and raised in Kalifornia.
Left there recently to get AWAY from what I perceive as idiocy, and anti-freedom, anti-liberty, and anti-self determination.
As to Building Energy Efficiency Standards what makes you think other states aren't using similar, or even the same standards?
Here's your saw?
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Wake up people! California is the US socialist state in the making...only the government is smart enough to run your thermostat. You can't decide for yourself.
You should give all your earthly holdings, financial and physical, to the leadership of their party to redistribute for your benefit, while they live the high life.
When California finally falls into the ocean, we can claim the removal of another blood sucking parasite from the US.
Otherwise, I like it. :)
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Originally posted by wrag
You think such things are only going to remain in Kalifornia?
If the reactions around here are any indication, yes.
Get many rolling blackouts in Nevada?
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Originally posted by TalonX
When California finally falls into the ocean...
Can't happen. It's a plate tectonic thing... but thanks!
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I'm not sure anyone has built a nuke power-plant in the US in the past couple of decades.
No they haven't, but they are getting ready to build quite a few. The new nuclear power plants in the U.S. will all be standardized, similar to the size used in France. I can't remember exactly how many will be built, but I think it was a pretty sizeable number (70 perhaps).
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Sounds like a solid plan to me. Anything to keep the Kalifornians having to beg juice off of their neighbors . . . and then biting the hands that help them.
http://www.kgw.com/business/stories/kgw_010408_business_power_settlement.ba63565.html
I like the idea of a fence between the US and Mexico... and while we're at it, maybe we could extend it north a bit to help keep the loonies in. I'd say the government is a minor threat compared to the plague that is the voters that could spread into surrounding states, yearning to be told how to live and voting likewise. It gives me the shivers just thinking about it!
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Perhaps if Kalifornia wasn't funding stuff like its OWN STEM CELL research, it might have money for a power plant or 2
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Certainly there is a prime reason why CA is having an evergy crisis? Are CA public utilities at fault? It seems they should have been able to foresee the ever-increasing CA population and extrapolate future energy demand and build power generating facilities to accommodate it, doesn't it?????
I thought that maybe since CA is one of the country's most liberal states that maybe they couldn't build power plants because, since only the power customers can pay for it, and since the customers were maybe already overtaxed, it couldn't be done. But i think CA is about average or less in taxes of all the states...
so, what is it? Why is CA coming up short on energy?
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
No they haven't, but they are getting ready to build quite a few. The new nuclear power plants in the U.S. will all be standardized, similar to the size used in France. I can't remember exactly how many will be built, but I think it was a pretty sizeable number (70 perhaps).
Reactors are sized by their available heatsink.. Standardization comes from the main two US manufactuers (GE and Westinghouse).. Only a few proven designs are around in the US, boiling water reactors (BWR), pressure reactors (PWR), the newer advanced boiling and pressure water reactors (ABWR n APWR), and even a newer design the Advanced passive pressure water reactor.. The next two units to come online in the US are underconstruction now and will be Advanced PWRs.. Fun stuff! 8)
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sandie.. I did not say that the program will not work as a point of debate.
I am saying that you can't get something for nothing.. it is impossible. It can't work and is a bandaid.
Now.. if you are saying that stockton will have a moritorium on building and that the program is used to simply cut down on power use by making everyone who currently is on the program get less service for the same money they paid last year.. then yes.. it will "work".
putting two families to every home will "work".
At least until they build some new houses. We have had a program that is similar for years.. 20 years in fact with PG&E.
They give you a break on your bill if you allow them to put an interupter on your AC unit that turns it off for 10 minutes at a time during peak hours.
with the power they "saved" they were able to allow developers to build vastly more housing tracts and not charge em for infrastructure.
now.. we have even more houses with an even worse infrastructure.
The only way to make it "work" is to charge old customers for repair and maintenance and charge new customers for expansion.
You can give rebates and breaks to people for all sorts of things you think are helping you too tho.
lazs