Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: MjTalon on January 11, 2008, 04:27:13 PM
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Well today's KOTH performance of mines was terrible, although it was my first, i totally sucked.
And now i know how much training i need... Think i need to go back to the basics and some more. Is there a schedule for the trainer times and events in the TA?
Think i need a hefty amount of them.
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Frankly, KOTH is a poor measuring stick for any relative "skill level" -- your performance there has little to do with your actual skill in-game, be it MA, AvA, FSO, SEA, or upcoming CT. The only thing KOTH even resembles is DA dueling, and that's pretty darned useless as a skill indicator.
You're probably doing fine. Check your plane kill stats, check your past 6 tour stats for late war or whatever events you attend. Do a general over-view and try to be objective. Room for improvement? Most of us have it.
Need to start over? Not likely.
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Originally posted by Krusty
The only thing KOTH even resembles is DA dueling, and that's pretty darned useless as a skill indicator.
Krusty, stop digging and hand in your shovel!
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Krusty, stop digging and hand in your shovel!
My regards,
Widewing
What?
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Originally posted by Krusty
What?
Yea... What? :huh ?
Anyhow, thank's for clearing that up krusty, but my Dueling Arena skills are way below average... I'm doing fine in MA, but as stated above, would like to improve my skills in a 1v1 dogfight.
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Originally posted by Krusty
The only thing KOTH even resembles is DA dueling, and that's pretty darned useless as a skill indicator.
Not trying to act as in a mean manner, so don't take it that way, but how is DA dueling not a good way of indicating skill??
donkey
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
Not trying to act as in a mean manner, so don't take it that way, but how is DA dueling not a good way of indicating skill??
donkey
It's a very good indicator of skill, which is why I suggested that Krusty stop digging a deep hole for himself and turn in his shovel.
Skills are built by flying and fighting. When the fighting includes highly skilled pilots, your skills will invariably improve. No one will rise far above their level of competition. The general level of competition in the MAs is rather low.
In short, if you run into a player in the DA or TA who waxes your backside, that player will wax your backside in the MA too.
My advice to MjTalon is to practice whenever you can, and keep attending the KOTH. Get together with one of the Trainers who fly the KOTH or who are very good in 1v1 dueling and spend a few hours sharpening the edge. Skills built flying duels and the KOTH will absolutely improve your MA results.
Anyone who argues otherwise is simply full of baloney.
My regards,
Widewing
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Talon...
1st we can all get better and everyone should spend some time working on improving the skill set.
2nd KOTH isnt a good benchmark for 2 reasons...
1) its a unique event that requires a combination of 1 on 1, 1 on many and tactical avoidance (within the rules)...its not easy to learn the ropes
2) The overall quality of KOTH drivers is high and its a tougher enviornment so a finer standard is forced on you for all kinds of decisions
Simply take it as a benchmark of today and work on each aspect of your game. Fly it for a couple of more months and if you see a consistant problem then focus on that with a trainer. There is no magic KOTH training pill:)
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KOTH will teach you many things very usefull in the MA.
It teaches you to kill quick.
You learn SA.
How to judge energy states.
How to fight multiple opponents.
Heck, lot's of important MA type things.
If you do well in KOTH you'll be just fine in the MA.
BUT I do agree that the skill level in KOTH is much, MUCH higer than what you come up againts in the other arenas.
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I find fighting and winning or losing in the KOTH to be a great experience where I just know I need to get better.:aok
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I'm with Widewing andWMLute on this one, but of couorse bing a KOTH host my opinion is most likely biased.
You can learn many things in KOTH but like alot of other things, what you get out varies with what you put in.
One thing not mentioned yet is you get to actually see the good guys do their stuff and can learn by that. Watching the fights from Tower in CMEye can be valuable.
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I've flown in KOTH events on several occaisions. Each time I found out exactly where I was lacking. It was always a learning experience. Generally speaking you can expect half the pilots at any given KOTH to be top shelf, and the other half are up and comers that are headed in that direction.
The guys I've seen doing well in KOTH always do very well in the mains as well.
Acm, shooting ability, judging E states, all trasfer perfectly from one venue to another.
In the mains anyone can be caught low & slow after a hard fight. Vulnerable in other words. To the point that even a newb can get a kill now and then on them.
Try that in a 1 on 1 coalt/coE situation with WmLute, AKDogg, TC, Blukitty, and the list goes on and on and on.
All natural born killers no matter where they are or what arena they are in.
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Originally posted by Krusty
The only thing KOTH even resembles is DA dueling, and that's pretty darned useless as a skill indicator.
The only way you will ever develop any kind of ACM skill is to learn it dualing.
The MA does not teach this. 95% of all players in the MA will only engage from an absolute advantage. They fly up to 15k or 20k in a TYPH, LA7, or Spit16 and play BnZ. They wait above and pick targets that are already engaged. They will see a single bandit and every single one will chase in an attempt to be the first one to steal the kill. ITs pathetic. Five or more cons on one target. The vulchers circle a field that has no hope of being captured and just rack up wothless kills. They shoot dead planes for the kill. They use friendlys as bait giving no check six so they can get the kill without effort.
Most of the MA is nothing but Alt monkeys who will only engage if they have and advantage in speed/alt or with numbers. The first time they get reversed they run and scream help on the radio like a little girl.
This kind of flying is complete dweebery. There is NO SKILL involved.
Kill ratio has absolutly nothing to do with actual ACM skill. Take my score for example. It is .5 and has always been that way. Take it to the DA and I will kill you every time.
When you can up in the MA from a sacked field and land 5 kills, fly into a full sector or red dar at 5k or less and live to land then you have some skill. You will never, never, never get any skill flying the "MA way"
You will never learn how to do this by playing alt monkey in the MA.
The furball area of the DA is quite different. Although many choose to fly to alt there and then engage they actually have the goal of fighting. So the low con has a chance of neutralizing the alt and winning. The mentality there is to fight to the death. Not run to save their score. This is a great area for learning ACM. In fact it does help somewhat in winning fights in the MA because you learn how to engage low, high and co-alt enemys.
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Agent I tend to disagree with all your comments, you've just outlined the Horde way to furball. I've never used the DA I wouldn't even know what it looks like. I haven't been involved with a squad in years or taken part in squad training.
I also don't believe in trying to know every ACM move in the bible, just a couple merges and defensive moves and know them well for your chosen aircraft.
I've only ever trained myself by usually flying at 7k or less in the MA just about everything else is usually Hi alt or Co alt at best. I don't vulch,I don't cherry pick and I stay away from hordes in general.
Think after all of this one thing MA teaches you that the DA can't is SA being able to track more then 2 cons at a time without actually watching them constantly and knowing where they are going to be within the next few secs in a 3D space rather then where they are.
SA and Gunnery are key imho.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
Agent I tend to disagree with all your comments
and I in turn disagree with all of your comments Gixer.
From what I recall from fighting you (I can only think of 2-3 times this past month ish we've crossed paths) you died doing some pretty rookie mistakes that someone who knows how to duel would never do. I remember this because i've seen some of your BBS posts and after killing you I thought "gosh, that was easy" and was surprised by it.
btw, what was your name before Gixer?
(edit: come fly next month's KOTH Gixer and we'll see how far "self taught" takes ya')
you were spot on btw Agent :aok
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Originally posted by WMLute
btw, what was your name before Gixer?
It's always been Gixer since 2001 I took a break from AH in 04 when (is that the date you started?) and returned about two months ago. Possibly from the time you started you missed any previous years I've been around hence your opinon of Rookie of me.
Your welcome to your opinion others that have been around for while might disagree. And I don't ever recall coming across you in the past couple of months.
Maybe you could show an ounce of courtesy or atleast check ones history first before slagging someone off in the forums.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
(is that the date you started?) and returned about two months ago. Possibly from the time you started you missed any previous years I've been around hence your opinon of Rookie of me.
Your welcome to your opinion others that have been around for while might disagree. And I don't ever recall coming across you in the past couple of months.
Maybe you could show an ounce of courtesy or atleast check ones history first before slagging someone off in the forums.
...-Gixer
I would give the same advice to you sir.
I started (well... the 2nd time I started, and never quit) was Tour 34 2002, a month or so before you did as Lute.
I tried AH earlier at the end of 2001 when AW died but I didn't like it (gasp!) and I was still crying over the demise of Air Warrior. TECHNICALLY I started Dec. 1991, but I don't count that as I only flew a tour or so, and took a break for most of 1991 from flying.
You would have to go back to AirWarrior @ 1996 for my true "roots".
Not surprised you don't remember dying. They were quite unremarkable fights if IIRC. Again, I only noted them as I have seen you post on the BBS and expected, oh I don't know, MORE I guess.
And I think you would be hard pressed to find too many supporters of "self taught" vs. "trained" as far as learning how to fight is concerned. I would be curious who these "others" are.
(edit: I DID dig the whole "ask someone who's been around longer than you about me" angle you just tried. I would suggest next time to make sure you were around longer than the person you try that with)
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Originally posted by WMLute
INot surprised you don't remember dying. They were quite unremarkable fights if IIRC. Again, I only noted them as I have seen you post on the BBS and expected, oh I don't know, MORE I guess.
I could say the same, but the difference between us is that I wouldn't go posting such in the forums.
Anyway interesting to read your history, see you around in the MA no doubt.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Gixer
I could say the same, but the difference between us is that I wouldn't go posting such in the forums.
Back at you.
I will make an effort to cross paths with you again in the arena.
(yes I edited out all the sarcasm and witty remarks)