Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Halo on January 12, 2008, 06:03:09 PM
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Lotsa similar threads, but cut to the chase for 2008 update: If you could have either Cable or FIOS internet connection for TV and computer, which would you choose and why?
I've been a happy camper with Comcast TV/computer cable for years except for bemoaning its high cost as well as the high cost of Verizon telephone (including wireless). Now Verizon soon will offer FIOS in my area.
Imagine this: I could save writing one check a month by having only one grande communication bill instead of two tall communication bills!
I've Googled and pondered, but so far can't quite believe it's worth the hassle to switch from cable to FIOS. Yet. And Comcast is making noises about even faster internet service than FIOS in the future.
If you have been in similar decision throes for cable vs. FIOS, I'd appreciate your insight. Thanks. :confused:
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cost shouldn't sway you as they will cost the same in the end
I have been a happy cable sub for years and plan to stay that way.
Verizon is the Terminators SkyNet in its infancy
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I had road runner cable internet, dish tv, and verizon phone for years.
I recently switched to Verizon for everything.
I ended up with the same monthly bill, but here's what I got over what I had before:
HD channels (dish would have charged me more for those)
20MB download/ 5MB upload (compared to cable with 7MB/512kb)
I could have saved some money going for 10MB/2MB, but there are times when I could really use the 5MB upload, so that's what clinced the deal for me switching to FIOS. The most cable would give me was 1.5MB upload, and I would have had to pay through the nose to get it.
Here is what I lost:
Great customer service. Verizon has had great difficulty getting my order right. Specifically, I didn't have the 20/5 service for a couple of months despite specifically switching to FIOS for this ability. Of course they weren't charging me for it either... but I really had to nag them repeatedly to get this service. Their 1-800 menu blows... designed to keep you going in circles before you actually get to anyone who can help you.
Also, my landline phone now has background interference... like a tv or radio station always talking on it with some static noise thrown in for good measure. Haven't had the time to get them to come out and fix it.
Finally, their router blows. It has some nice features at a glance, but the NAT doesn't seem to work nearly as well as my Linksys WRT54G. I have found information online to allow me to turn their router into a bridge so that my WRT54G gets the WAN assignment, but I haven't had time to mess with that yet. Hopefully, that works and restores me back to the full port forwarding abilities I had before to support hosting games, etc. as even setting a PC to DMZ doesn't quite work with all my games MP interfaces.
What sealed the deal on my decision to switch is when road runner suddenly failed for no reason. tech came out a few days later, had it fixed by replacing all the cable terminals and eliminating a filter that blocked tv stations... then a week later internet went out again. So out of 14 days, I had maybe 4 days of internet. I don't know what their problem was and don't care. FIOS hasn't dropped out yet. Road runner was also in and out all the time when I first moved in to this neighborhood. Took a coulple of years before it got fairly reliable.
Verizon HD channels are pretty darn good. Look great on my 46" 1080p lcd tv.
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Thanks, streakeagle. Exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Still considering the options, and so far still inclined to stick with cable for awhile until FIOS gets more mature.
If I were starting from scratch, probably would start with FIOS. But still not even sure about that. Nice to have such excellent competition from which to choose.
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one more thing .. you have to sign a year contract with Verizon.
Be sure to read the fine print.
howdy streak
can you post a ping plotter to AH (206.16.60.38) for your FIOS?
here is one from my Bright House Networks Road Runner:
(http://www.pogbird.com/X45/ah_ping.jpg)
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switched from Comcast to Fios.
My main complaints about comcast were price and arrogance.
I really didnt have any issues with the internet. So between one and the other for me is a wash.
There are tradeoffs.
Whereas with comcast I was spending around $120 per month for only internet and TV service, which included 1 High Def box and HBO as a premium channel which I could only get on the set with the box.
Fios I am spending around $130 per month for internet TV awnd phone.
We estimated the savings to be about $30 per month on our phone bill.
With Verizon TV we have 3 set top boxes including 1 high def box and we can watch all channels on all TVs. And showtime and the Movie Channel as one of the premium channels
Tradeoff is with Comcast their basic package was better. that is stations you can receive without having a converter box We had something like 70 channels Discover,History channel ETC we could receive just by hooking up the coax calbe to the TV with no set top boxes needed.
With Fios Any tv without a box will only get 49
If your a Football fan. At least in my area the NFL Network is a premium channel with comcast.
With Verizon its part of their standard package for all sets with a box.
I liked Comcasts "on demand" selection better then Fios has. As there seemed to be more variety of choices.
Not that there is any less selection with verizon.
With Comcast I just seemed to have a better variety.
All in all I havent had any problem with costumer service with either.
Actually Verizon is my first experience with an automated system actually working in helping ot resolve an issue.
And I had the option of letting a Cus serv rep call me back rather then sitting on hold for 1/2 hour.
All in all as far as quality I'd rate both about the same.
but there are tradeoff and benifits to each.
Like I said. my two complaints were price and arrogance.
For the longest time Comcast was the only game in town. And thats exactly how they acted.
So when I finally had the option of going elsewhere. I did.
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DREDIOCK
Did you have to sign up for a year?
Can you post a ping plotter for comparison? I want to see if verizon goes thru Level3 hops like my RR does now. thanks.
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*BUMP* for a FIOS ping plotter to AH .. thanks
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My traces do not contain Level3 and PingPlot shows 13 hops total. Not that it should matter.
Eagler, you need someone from Florida to make a trace.
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Sorry. forgot about this thread.
Yes Had to sign up for a year.
But typically with Comcast deals they want you to keep it for a year as well.
You can get out of a verizon deal.
All you have to do is complain enough and THEY will quit you. LOL
There was an article about it a few months ago.
As for ping.
I guess what skuzzy said
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And of course the core question: Skuzzy, which system plays Aces High better, FIOS or cable?
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If it is a good connection it does not matter. You can get a bad Internet connection no matter what the physical last mile (your connection) is.
FIOS is like DSL and has a better chance of being more consistent than cable.
With Comcast doing the traffic shaping they are doing, I would avoid them like the plague as they are doing far more than just traffic shaping.
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eagler tampa fios verizon trace
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/333/206166038za9.png)
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
With Comcast doing the traffic shaping they are doing, I would avoid them like the plague as they are doing far more than just traffic shaping.
Skuzzy:
With lots of ISPs, and even backbone providers like AT&T, talking about "shaping" and filtering the net, do you forsee any problems for AH and it's use of UDP protocol? For example, will Comcast's sending of fake reset packets get triggered by an AH UDP session?
Do you see the future possiblity that ISPs and/or backbone providers will come to HTC and demand "protection" money to let your UDP packets get to your customers on time?
715
PS- why does Comcast call it "shaping" when they just reset, ie cancel, P2P torrents? I guess that they figure "zero" is a shape?
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Yards along our street have been striped and spiked with little wirey orange and yellow and red flags.
FIOS is coming. :)
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Just FYI. My neighbor across the street works for Verizon in the FIOS division as an engineer. They were testing 600Mb/s connections at his house the other day.
They were using an uncompressed HD video stream at 1080p for the test. Smooth as silk, He was saying they could go 1Gb/s towards the end of the year.
My only complaint is they force you to use PPPoE. I really hate that.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
My only complaint is they force you to use PPPoE. I really hate that.
Wassdat?
and why do you hate it?
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Think of it as a "VPN" packaging that get's wrapped around your Ethernet packages (except that in this case, it's a protocol that was designed for dial-up networking, and doesn't provide any P).
It's a way to leverage a lot of infrastructure that was originally in place for a different purpose (dial-up) with only minimal changes (requiring the client PC or router to be able to establish a PPPoE session, and tunnel it's outbound IP through that).
What's bad about it is that the terminus point at the service provider is a natural bottleneck for performance issues (unless you really trust the phone company to plan capacity for peak use, rather than somewhat more than average??) as it has to decapsulate all the IP packets for all the connected devices (think of it as a big Router at the telephone company that handles all the traffic for all the users on that "leg".) Secondly, the MTU is slightly smaller than Ethernet, which means that many/most Ethernet packets must be broken in 2 and then reassembled (ugh!) before retransmission, which adds more overhead.
All IMHO and YMMV, of course.
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I missed the question. Ghastly is quite right though. The only advantage PPPoE offers is to the ISP. It makes it easier to manage user connections. It is the lazy way to manage user connections.
But the overhead for it, on a large network, is insane.
All it says to me when an ISP requires you to use PPPoE is they do not want to invest in the proper tools and personnel for managing a large network infrastructure.
That is why I do not have FIOS at home. They could not figure out how to make an Internet connection without using it.
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This reminds me of another conversation where I had to confess, "I don't understand a word you said but I've never heard it said better."
I'm guessing bottom line is FIOS is not perfect and needs better thruput throughout its system. Which apparently can be said about most systems in anything anywhere, right? Every system somewhere has a component or components not quite the equal of other components, right?
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I didn't intend to indicate that FIOS was a poor choice - at this point, given a choice between my current Charter connection and FIOS, I'd take FIOS.
I was merely answering the question as to why anyone who knows technically what it is (like Skuzzy) would be a bit suspicious and certainly less than overjoyed to see a PPPoE requirement.
It doesn't mean it won't work, or that it can't work well - just that there is an increased likelihood that it MIGHT be problematic.
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FIOS is getting closer, at least its availability. That's a BIG cable, orange, about two inches diameter, and takes a crew of about a dozen to bury it through about five yards a day in our neighborhood.
The Verizon subcontractor did a great job installing the cable and restoring the ground. Used a torpedo-like thingie to bore under the driveway and through the yard, entering and exiting every 10 feet or so.
Dug a new route near mid lawn away from the existing phone and cable lines along the sidewalk.
Looks like at least another month or so before the area will have FIOS activated. I've read it takes about three guys all day to hook it up to each house inside and outside.
Haven't decided yet whether to switch internet and TV from cable to FIOS, but it looks like a good possibility.
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Originally posted by Halo
FIOS is getting closer, at least its availability. That's a BIG cable, orange, about two inches diameter, and takes a crew of about a dozen to bury it through about five yards a day in our neighborhood.
The Verizon subcontractor did a great job installing the cable and restoring the ground. Used a torpedo-like thingie to bore under the driveway and through the yard, entering and exiting every 10 feet or so.
Dug a new route near mid lawn away from the existing phone and cable lines along the sidewalk.
Looks like at least another month or so before the area will have FIOS activated. I've read it takes about three guys all day to hook it up to each house inside and outside.
Haven't decided yet whether to switch internet and TV from cable to FIOS, but it looks like a good possibility.
Only took one guy at my house.
ran the wire from the pole to the house. Installed a box on the outside. a Battery back up on the inside. then just tied into my existing cable and phone lines from there.
Took about 4 hours from start to finish
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All our utilities are underground, including lines to the house, so maybe that's why I've read about the longer installation times.
Also curious whether 30-year-old phone wiring inside the house needs updating.
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Originally posted by Halo
Also curious whether 30-year-old phone wiring inside the house needs updating.
most likely not - if it works fine now, it will work fine after. Either way, replacing that wiring is not included in any installation charges they may have quoted you.
If they can't get you up and running in under 4 hours, I'd question the installers ability. What I have seen around here is a grunt, can you say Mexican, does the physical work (trench/attic) and an inhouse verizon guy does the technical.
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When they came out to install mine, they ran the Cat 6 cable through the attic and mounted a nice wall plate in the room wheh I could plug in.
During the turn-up is when I was told it was a PPPoE based connection and I terminated the installation immediately.
I never got charged for any of it. Getting ready to drop my DSL from them as well. They are raising the price, while at the same time advertising 6 months at $12.99 for the service I have at over 50$ a month now.
I guess a satellite connection is next.
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wait until they destroy any and all competition .. it'll be the 1980's ma bell split up all over again once they corner the market .. again
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Sorry I lost track of this thread... so I didn't see the request.
Here is the requested ping plot:
(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/5190/206166038fz3.png)
By streakeagle (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/streakeagle) at 2008-03-07