Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on January 13, 2008, 01:30:52 AM
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Now into the fourth camp of split arena scoring do you like it better or not?
For me personally, I used to visit EW and MW regularly prior to the split. I haven't been to either one since the split.
I guess I kind of liked it better when they were combined. I don't have the time to try to maintain score/rank through three arenas, nor do I care to try to track my stats from camp to camp across three arenas.
I still try to fly the EW/MW planes in the LWA's from time to time but it's much more difficult (although very rewarding when you have success) and it's just not the same. I sort of miss flying those old crates agianst others of the same kind.
What's your opinion?
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I guess I kind of liked it better when they were combined. I don't have the time to try to maintain score/rank through three arenas, nor do I care to try to track my stats from camp to camp across three arenas.
What's your opinion?
Why do you even care about rank? :huh
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My opinion is that it is way too easy to inflate scores doing worthless things that don't contribute to anything in any meaningful way except to inflate your score.
EDIT: So yea, why care about it?
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They give us scores and ranks now?:confused:
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I never had an opinion on ranks other than "It's a way to tell who's Admiral and who's swabin' the poop deck"
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The guy with the fruit salad on his hat gets the mop? :rofl
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you mean early and mid arenas ae still around!!!!
everytime i log on there are less people in the arenas then i got toes so i dont even bother with them.
Splt areans my work for thoses who log on in american peak time but for others they are a waste of space.
As for score just have fun
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Originally posted by rogerdee
you mean early and mid arenas ae still around!!!!
everytime i log on there are less people in the arenas then i got toes so i dont even bother with them.
Splt areans my work for thoses who log on in american peak time but for others they are a waste of space.
As for score just have fun
yup, they generally always empty... maybe there should be 128x128 maps for them they more likely to find fights?
one of the reasons i dont go there is i can find more fights in offline mode....
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I hear a lot of people say they don't care about score. That's fine, but don't ignore the implicit message of the post: before scoring was split, it was more enticing to fly the in the EW or MW arenas.
Personally, there's one scoring statistic that means a lot to me: K/D ratio. That's how I judge how I am doing.
Were there more people in those arenas four months ago? I don't know because I created my account in November, but I've been disappointed not to see consistent numbers anywhere but the LWMA. There are so many aircraft that it's hopeless to try and I never see flying. Even the best pilots wouldn't last long in 1940 aircraft against hordes of La-7s and Spixteens.
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Originally posted by Anaxogoras
Were there more people in those arenas four months ago?
Defenitely yes, especially in EW.
One could lament about scoring and ranking and scorepotatos all the day, but that doesn't take from the fact that the single scoring atttracted people to the EW arena. Which, despite being intended as pure milkrunning, resulted in more fights in this arena. And numbvers breed numbers, throw in 15 players that try to pad their score and a good number of other players will follow trying to hunt them down ;)
Now I don't want to bee misunderstood - I always thought (and still think) splitting the stats was a good idea.
My only proposal would be basing your overall rank in each category on your individual ranks in all three arenas. If you care for your rank (for whatever reason), you will have to fly a few sorties everywhere. That would lure a few players back to EW/MW.
And if you don't care for ranks at all (for whatever reason) it wouldn't have any negative influence ón you either ;)
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Originally posted by Overlag
yup, they generally always empty... maybe there should be 128x128 maps for them they more likely to find fights?
one of the reasons i dont go there is i can find more fights in offline mode....
Don't paint a picture of doom and gloom in the non-LW arenas with such a broad brush.
Generally more empty than the LW arenas ? .. yes ... generally empty ? ... no.
rogerdee was more correct in saying that off US prime-time they are basically empty ... who's fault is that ?
I already have 89 kills in my FM2 and 64 kills in my F6F ... I find plenty of targets/fights ... so we really don't need any changes to the types of maps that cycle thru mid-war (with the exception of Uterus - GET RID OF IT). You want to find a fight in mid-war, you simply have to find a red dar bar ... fly to it ... engage.
To answer the question ...
I love it. I fly mid-war almost exclusively, and since the scoring change, mid-war has developed a great "core" of players that fly the arena consistently. Prior to the scoring change, the arena had a constant influx of "score potatos" who were not there to really participate, but rather milk strats and personally, I am glad to see them go.
I have noticed as of late, that the numbers in mid-war have increased in average. When I log on at night I can see numbers from 35 to 75+ ... consistently. The gameplay and engagements in mid-war reminds me very much of the AH I days, and I like that.
In the mid-war, you can get into 1 v 1 - 2 v 1 - 3 v 1 fights and actually end up fighting with just those people ... rather than starting such types of engagements and only end up with a pack of mouth frothing La-7s and Spit 16s sniffing the air for blood and pouncing in on the fight and basically fighting over who will get the kill first.
Again ... I applauded HTC for splitting arenas and applaud them again for splitting the score.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Again ... I applauded HTC for splitting arenas and applaud them again for splitting the score.
this wasnt ment to be a negative comment about the arena split. far from it. I aint even touching that subject.
Id love to go there, but its "empty" so i dont... and that causes the whole issue. same with AvA, although maybe "The War" will improve that...
the 128x128 map idea whole surely be good as it brings the people close together and less of a chance to spread out?
what Lusche mentioned it very true. when the stats was all linked, people score potatod in these arenas, and that caused people to go there to hunt for the score potatos. Now this has virtually gone. (i did both of these a few times...)
another problem is choice, theres not many rides that fall into EW, partly because the people always want uber planes cos they think everything else will be hanger queens. MW doesnt really have this problem.
4th edit, yeah MW numbers are up i believe from the past, thats one reason i feel to have a 1939-1943 and 1943-1945 arena setup, not EW/MW/LW
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Good comments from all of you....
Midwar has been pickin' up a bit. Many times during peek hours(E/T) you will vary bewteen 50-70players.
This arena I like because you often scrap with even odds or close to.
The plane set is good where you need to have skills to survive. You do the work and not the plane....
If you like "FUR" balls, I think the late war arenas are the best. You won't have the patience to sweep in midwar for 10min to find a bogey !
SCORES darn SCORES !:mad:
Some pilots make stupid moves and say stupid comments because of their "GOLDEN" scores !
Some RUN away before risking gettin' killed...
Some are frustrated because they got killed and blame it on the famous H.O move.
Verbal abusive comments are being said between pilots because of being jealous of others for havin' GOLDEN scores:(
Look at the arena SEA. Do scores count in there ?
I don't think so.
During the special event missions, I never saw anyone or witnessed any pilots making degrading comments to anyone because of scores. There is none ! No ranks !
The score ranking should be decided with the player if he wants his to be posted on the roster.
AT THE BEGINING OF THE TOUR, A POP UP SCREEN SHOULD GIVE YOU THE CHOICE IF YOU WANT TO BE RANKED AND YOUR SCORE TO BE POSTED. IF NOT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR ROSTER DURING THE TOUR, YOUR SCORE WOULD BE SIMPLY " 0 " JUST LIKE IN THE TRAINING / DUAL ARENAS ETC...
Scores should be a tool for you to use for your own improvement. If ya want to show it, good for you. If not, leave it at zero.
Why would you have to feel obliged to play in the arena simply to keep your ranks. I think this is where we lose quality during the game.
Those players fly the game different by not taking any chances. They decide to run instead forcing the fights.
In midwar, I have confronted top ranked fighters from the late war arenas and once they were pinged, ZOOM they were gone !
:confused:
Viewed the film afterwards and was surprised to find out who it was ! No wonder he disapeared, he didn't want to affect his GOLDEN scores !
He flew 1-2 hours in mid. Once he shot down a dozen planes, you didn't see him for the rest of the tour... ET VOILA ! Two sorties with a dozen of planes to his credit and never shot down.
Did he come back in Mid, Nope ! Why risk it ? His scores are in cement and will stay there....
I'm fairly new at this game(14mths) and have met good pilots from each teams. These pilots participated in fun scraps.
I have noticed that some of those pilots have changed their game style. I checked their scores and It was obvious why ! They have been sucked in the SCORE competition... These pilots are now running away when they used to stick around and make it more fun/interesting.
Players don't want to fly bomber formation missions because they risk not having a good bomb run. It will affect their scores ! The teamwork was out the window starting from that comment !
Anyway, everyone has the choice to do what they wish;)
But when there's a score board in any game you play, SOME humans will do anything at any cost. Even if it means losing a good relationship with a pilot or disbanding a squad because of the scores. Some will cheat and some will start endless verbal wars against each other....:o
Again, you shouln't be playing in an arena simply to keep your scores. You should be going in there because you like the plane set and the environment you are fighting in.
You ask for my opinion Eagle, you got it !
Salute
Phil / OPP7755
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Don't paint a picture of doom and gloom in the non-LW arenas with such a broad brush.
Generally more empty than the LW arenas ? .. yes ... generally empty ? ... no.
rogerdee was more correct in saying that off US prime-time they are basically empty ... who's fault is that ?
I already have 89 kills in my FM2 and 64 kills in my F6F ... I find plenty of targets/fights ... so we really don't need any changes to the types of maps that cycle thru mid-war (with the exception of Uterus - GET RID OF IT). You want to find a fight in mid-war, you simply have to find a red dar bar ... fly to it ... engage.
To answer the question ...
I love it. I fly mid-war almost exclusively, and since the scoring change, mid-war has developed a great "core" of players that fly the arena consistently. Prior to the scoring change, the arena had a constant influx of "score potatos" who were not there to really participate, but rather milk strats and personally, I am glad to see them go.
I have noticed as of late, that the numbers in mid-war have increased in average. When I log on at night I can see numbers from 35 to 75+ ... consistently. The gameplay and engagements in mid-war reminds me very much of the AH I days, and I like that.
In the mid-war, you can get into 1 v 1 - 2 v 1 - 3 v 1 fights and actually end up fighting with just those people ... rather than starting such types of engagements and only end up with a pack of mouth frothing La-7s and Spit 16s sniffing the air for blood and pouncing in on the fight and basically fighting over who will get the kill first.
Again ... I applauded HTC for splitting arenas and applaud them again for splitting the score.
Slap, the more I read and the more you shoot me down, the better I respect you !
Maybe someday, I will be able to shoot you down everytime !!!
SALUTE !
Phil / OPP7755
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Originally posted by Overlag
this wasnt ment to be a negative comment about the arena split. far from it. I aint even touching that subject.
Id love to go there, but its "empty" so i dont... and that causes the whole issue. same with AvA, although maybe "The War" will improve that...
the 128x128 map idea whole surely be good as it brings the people close together and less of a chance to spread out?
what Lusche mentioned it very true. when the stats was all linked, people score potatod in these arenas, and that caused people to go there to hunt for the score potatos. Now this has virtually gone. (i did both of these a few times...)
another problem is choice, theres not many rides that fall into EW, partly because the people always want uber planes cos they think everything else will be hanger queens. MW doesnt really have this problem.
Part of Lusche's observations is true ... score potatos use to come to the arena and it helped with numbers.
I fly the MW 99% of the time and this is what I see/saw ... numbers did tail off when they split the scoring, but the numbers have recovered, and on the average, the numbers are now larger than when the score was not split.
I believe that some people have gravitated to the Mid-War because of the scoring split and are coming back with consistency.
What I also see, and what is important to me, is that the quality of fights in the Mid-War are better than what you run into in the LW arenas. That is not to say that LW pilots are worse ... when you engage in a 2 v 1 in the MW, 99% of the time, it will remain a 2 v 1 ... you don't always have the fear of a pack of feeding frenzied La-7s and Spit 16s jumping the fight.
That to me is "quality" and I much prefer quality to quantity when it comes to this game and dogfighting.
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Originally posted by Phil
Slap, the more I read and the more you shoot me down, the better I respect you !
Maybe someday, I will be able to shoot you down everytime !!!
SALUTE !
Phil / OPP7755
Great post Phil.
pfft ... you do just fine for a guy that has only 14 months into the game and I fear for that day ... ;)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
What I also see, and what is important to me, is that the quality of fights in the Mid-War are better than what you run into in the LW arenas. That is not to say that LW pilots are worse ... when you engage in a 2 v 1 in the MW, 99% of the time, it will remain a 2 v 1 ... you don't always have the fear of a pack of feeding frenzied La-7s and Spit 16s jumping the fight.
That to me is "quality" and I much prefer quality to quantity when it comes to this game and dogfighting.
i must admit i am (as is most of my squad) getting a bit annoyed having "fun fights" turn into hordes of La7s and Spit16s chasing us down. what can be a good 5on5 quicky turns into a mess as the people that died get pissed off and up the best plane that is free...
But the choice of using old planes, as well as the "uber" ones keeps us in LW, most of us would be able to fly in MW fine, but sometimes they move from 47d25s to the 47N's or the 190a5 to the d9 etc...
Overlag
4th edit, yeah MW numbers are up i believe from the past, thats one reason i feel to have a 1939-1943 and 1943-1945 arena setup, not EW/MW/LW
from earlier...
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Originally posted by Overlag
But the choice of using old planes, as well as the "uber" ones keeps us in LW, most of us would be able to fly in MW fine, but sometimes they move from 47d25s to the 47N's or the 190a5 to the d9 etc...
I understand that ... but I also know that the MW has it's set of "uber" planes but they are only "uber" in relation to the rest of the plane set.
We have the P-51B ... not too far from the P-51D.
We have the P-38J ... not to far from the P-38L.
We have the F6F ... not too far removed from it's other Navy brothers.
We have the P-47-D11 ... ummm ... well ... it's a fun plane to fly.
We have the La-5 ... not too far from the La-7
We have the Spit 9 ... not too far removed from it's other British brothers.
As far as comparing bombers and German iron ... I can't speak for those as I don't fly them.
It's all perspective Overlag ... <>
But we digress ... so, again to answer the original question ... I LOVE IT
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Don't get me wrong about score/rank. Sure I try to keep mine up to a degree (which is easy if you just fulfill the minimal obligations so you're not ranked last in any catagory) but not at the expense of having fun or trying to help my country.
Last night I was the lone friendly in a me on ten or so trying to keep the Knights off one of our VB's. If I was a total score-potato I would never have flown there. I knew the odds going in.
As to running score-potatos sometimes you're just not in a plane match-up or an odds situation that is comfortable for you. Sometimes you're low on fuel or ammo. There's a lot of reasons to exit a fight beyond holding onto your score.
I do keep track of all my stats over a six month period though. I dont want to have to add my kills and deaths from 3 sets of stats to know how I'm doing, so, I stick to LW now. At least the whole plane-set's available to me but alas, I do miss my visits to those other arenas.
One of the best fights I've had over the past year was against SlapShot in MW. Sadly I augered after about 5 minutes of intense fighting. I miss running into Slap, NB (wish I'd win once) and some of the others. I miss GV busting in my Stuka of Death in EW. Oh well.
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I like the split.
The only score I really track is my K/D. I realize most folks don't care about score, but I like to track this stat for some reason.
And, really, the only K/D that I concern myself with is my LW score.
Before the split I might have hesitated to fly in the other arenas because I'm not as comfortable in alot of those planes and, frankly, I seemed to run into alot more better players in there.
Since the split, I've been using the MW arena as more of a playground. I go in there to fly planes I never fly in the LW arenas- like the P-38. But what I really like are the smaller numbers. Most of the time you can get into a rythm flying against a handful of other folks and have really fun fights. Especially if it's some higher caliber players, there's alot less HO'ing, and a lot more on 200. I've had some epic duels with Oldman22 in there- sort of a running feud.
I for one hope they keep the split as is for now. Mid-war is a great change of pace, at least until you get 5 knuckleheads on all HO'ing in their woobiecanes (looking at you ...th).
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I hope it doesn't change. I actually wish HT would cap Mid to 70-80 players. You can always tell when there are more then that on by quality of fights and you can always tell when late war regulars come to mid war.
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You can always tell when there are more then that on by quality of fights and you can always tell when late war regulars come to mid war.
You're an even bigger elitist that I am. I didn't think that was possible.:lol
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I only go into the MW when I'm bored and want to fly a J against it's equivalents, or if I want to feed my inner torpedo monster.:D
donkey
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Originally posted by SlapShot
It's all perspective Overlag ... <>
But we digress ... so, again to answer the original question ... I LOVE IT
and the good point of all this is theres 1 less pro in LW to kill me :furious ;)
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Originally posted by Anaxogoras
You're an even bigger elitist that I am. I didn't think that was possible.:lol
Didn't mean to come across that way. I'm not any better then anyone else because I play or don't play a certain way. There is a different attitude and play style in most mid regulars that I like. Fly there exclusively for an entire tour then go back to Late for a day and I think you will see for yourself.
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Originally posted by Overlag
yup, they generally always empty... maybe there should be 128x128 maps for them they more likely to find fights?
one of the reasons i dont go there is i can find more fights in offline mode....
You are flying at the wrong times then. MW population on most afternoons and evenings (US time) is in the 30-60 range. Last night we had over 60 players in the MW.
EW arena is another matter and that is primarily due to these "uber" squads (i.e. the ones full of the crappiest players to be found in AH) are milkrunning the bases and flooding one side with numbers. Which is resulting in a low turn out in that arena.
ack-akc
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You are flying at the wrong times then. MW population on most afternoons and evenings (US time) is in the 30-60 range. Last night we had over 60 players in the MW.
There were similar numbers at those "wrong times" Overlag and me have the unfortunate pleasure to live in too.
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What if scores were withheld till the end of the tour...
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Originally posted by FireDrgn
What if scores were withheld till the end of the tour...
Wouldn't help the specific issue we are talking about.
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I fly to have fun.... I knife fight on the deck.... but the score system is flawed ..... so I went in the other night and augered 5 times to fix it. Now Dan won't be pointing the finger at me when the job of latrine duty comes up. I had not flown in MW since the split... numbers are usually low..... but Dan found fights in there a week or so ago and several of our little squad went in.... the fights generally are much better although you still see some LW mentality.
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Originally posted by Lusche
There were similar numbers at those "wrong times" Overlag and me have the unfortunate pleasure to live in too.
yup, not everyone lives in america...
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Now into the fourth camp of split arena scoring do you like it better or not?
For me personally, I used to visit EW and MW regularly prior to the split. I haven't been to either one since the split.
I guess I kind of liked it better when they were combined. I don't have the time to try to maintain score/rank through three arenas, nor do I care to try to track my stats from camp to camp across three arenas.
I still try to fly the EW/MW planes in the LWA's from time to time but it's much more difficult (although very rewarding when you have success) and it's just not the same. I sort of miss flying those old crates agianst others of the same kind.
What's your opinion?
rank means pretty much nothing.........i know for fact you're a much better pilot than i am......but i also know that i can make the stats appear as though i'm at leas equal to you.........so.....don't worry bout rank...just go to whichever arena ya feel like and kill some planes:aok
<>
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Originally posted by Overlag
yup, they generally always empty... maybe there should be 128x128 maps for them they more likely to find fights?
one of the reasons i dont go there is i can find more fights in offline mode....
Now im not even good at it and i have 150 kills so far this month and 317 last month in mid, so there are people to kill!( i fly all three arenas now,tho not to well in any)
i would ask that you not try too change an arena you dont fly in!
I would like to see the graphic set that i see in AVA in the mid and early war arena or all arena's i was there the other day ,midway map was very nice and bright with vivid color! the zero's kicked my tail big time!
if you dont use it , leave it be, you want to play in it then make a suggestion!
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I may have been in LW or MW once since the split. To me it's like playing varsity vs junior varsity or freshman.
Another reason, when you go in there you will see 20 one side, 10 another and the last side will have 2. My side always seems to be 2.
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Originally posted by Getback
I may have been in LW or MW once since the split. To me it's like playing varsity vs junior varsity or freshman.
The skill level of the players in the MW compared to that of the LW or any other of the arenas is the same. To imply that players that fly in the early or mid-war arenas are somehow less skilled than those in the LW is silly and clearly shows that you've never ventured into the early or mid war arenas at all and fought. Probably because you couldn't find a hord to hide in and cherry pick.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The skill level of the players in the MW compared to that of the LW or any other of the arenas is the same. To imply that players that fly in the early or mid-war arenas are somehow less skilled than those in the LW is silly and clearly shows that you've never ventured into the early or mid war arenas at all and fought. Probably because you couldn't find a hord to hide in and cherry pick.
ack-ack
Actually Ack-Ack, there does seem to be a difference, at least based on my experience. In the MA, you have the typical distribution curve (bell curve), some guys who are tops, some who are very inexperienced, and most of us just relatively average joes somewhere in the middle.
In the MW at least, what I've experienced is generally EITHER inexperienced guys who aren't very difficult to fight if (in the past at least) you could catch them to begin with OR guys who are simply awesome.
And not a lot in between.
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Originally posted by Getback
I may have been in LW or MW once since the split. To me it's like playing varsity vs junior varsity or freshman.
Laughable to say the least and obvious, to me, that you really haven't been around quite awhile.
I venture in the late war every once in awhile and 95% of the pilots that I encounter in there are dead with in 2 turns ... if they hang around or don't call their 5 or 6 La-7/Spit 16 buddies to come save their arse.
I r teh l337 ... I r a Late Warz pilot !!!1one!.
LW ... been there ... done that ... got the T-shirt ... gave it to Goodwill.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
In the MW at least, what I've experienced is generally EITHER inexperienced guys who aren't very difficult to fight if (in the past at least) you could catch them to begin with OR guys who are simply awesome.
And not a lot in between.
Thats funny ... thats exactly what I find when I occasionally pop into the LW arenas. They either totally suck ... or they are good ... the rest ... well they just run and hide in the crowd.
At least in MW you don't always have to fight off the roving droves of La-7s/Spit 16s/P-51s.
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I've run into a higher proportion of players better than me in MW than in LW.
MW is a refreshing change for sure. It's hard to hide in there.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
Actually Ack-Ack, there does seem to be a difference, at least based on my experience. In the MA, you have the typical distribution curve (bell curve), some guys who are tops, some who are very inexperienced, and most of us just relatively average joes somewhere in the middle.
In the MW at least, what I've experienced is generally EITHER inexperienced guys who aren't very difficult to fight if (in the past at least) you could catch them to begin with OR guys who are simply awesome.
And not a lot in between.
i fly mostly midwar...and i'm the average joe, leaning towards inexperienced........
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One reason you may find MW easier is your ACM is tweaked for multiple cons cutting close with the outside cons moving fast... when you encounter more equal aircraft and only 2 or 3 at a time it seems much easier.
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Originally posted by Shuffler
One reason you may find MW easier is your ACM is tweaked for multiple cons cutting close with the outside cons moving fast... when you encounter more equal aircraft and only 2 or 3 at a time it seems much easier.
If he fell into a group like Leviathn ... Drex ... Kappa ... Fester ... etc ... I would agree with that, but he doesn't fall into that group.
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Point taken.
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At least prior to the split, I usually found pretty high ranking, but not very talented players in EW and MW. I realize rank doesn't tell the whole story and I'm sure a lot of it was guys going in there to bump their ranks, but even the higher ranked fighter pilots in those arenas weren't on par with similarily ranked fighter pilots in LW. I'm not saying that was 100% of the cases (the really good players were still really good) and maybe that's changed now but it did seem generally true at the time.
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I've gone into MW several times the last 2 weeks. As far as quality of pilots in there I'd say it is about even with late war. You find good and bad. The main difference is the number of folks total that fly in there. I did a little experiment in my 38....
Fighters I was ranked #1, a few nights a go I upped 5 times and just augered my 38, next day I was #4.
Night before last I went in and just flew my regular have fun way, yesterday I was #2.
Last night went in for maybe an hour and a half and today #1.
Because the total numbers in MW are so much lower, it only takes a few deaths of kills either way to make a pretty big difference. In LW with the huge masses that use them.... to change your average it take quite a big number either way.
To leverage this I am something like 89 in the LW fighters. Rank just means so little.... the whole idea of the GAME is fun in my book.