Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DEAR98 on January 13, 2008, 08:46:17 AM
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can i get some help with the F4U like first how far do you set your covrince
and the A-1s the best right? and a sort clip whould be very good:)
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DEAR98, try to get this into your head...... There is no BEST! Each plane and version of a plane does somethings better than other, but it will also do some thing worst. Its all a trade off.
The f4u-1 is a great plane, but has just about the worst views in the game, the 1a is the fastest, but the -4 has more power. On the other hand, the 1d carries the biggest load, but the C has cannons!!!
You have to decide "how" you want to fly, or "what misson" you want (bombing objects, strait air to air fights, buff hunting) and pick the plane that can do that job.
convergence is a personal thing, but the general consensus is to keep them in close. I like to keep all of mine the same 350. This way I'm always looking for the same range when I shoot.
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convergence is really a personal preference.
I personally use 350 all converging at 350...
some like 200, some like 400..etc etc..
as for which is best of the series.that is also a personal preference
I prefer the F4U-1 series.....
Saxman prefers the F4U-1A
SHawk prefers the F4U-1C
if you got the perks to spend, F4U-4 is best performer....
as for films....I don't post films of multiply kill sorties......but there are many films posted on this messageboard regarding F4U planes.....
you could do better by using tutorial type films verses the above mentioned Multi Kill sortie type films, in my opinion. Or get with a trainer ( Widewing, Badboy, TC, Murdr, Hammer, Mace, Rolex, Ren, Ghosth, Spatula, Silat, Mtnman )
AKDogg,Sirloin, Skyrock, AGalland, Saxman, BluKitty, as well as some others are very good F4U flyers to look up also.....
Fugitive beat me to it..he summed it up pretty well....
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You're going to get a LOT of different answers to this question, because there's a lot of difference of opinion. Here's mine:
Convergence: I set my guns to 200yds. I do this for two reasons: First, at that range the .50cal are absolute buzz-saws. If you hit your target square at that range you're almost guaranteed to cause some major damage. Second, I find it makes hitting the target easier. You don't have to pull as much lead in a deflection shot, and if your saddled up the target is effectively filling your sights, anyway.
As far as which Hog's the best...
F4U-4 is far and away the best mark IF you have the perks for her. She's the best prop in the game PERIOD. The perk price, however makes her less attractive in a ground attack role. Otherwise, equal pilots she will pwn almost anything else in the air. She's one of the fastest props throughout the altitude range, and at LEAST in the Top 10 of pretty much every performance category, and whatever deficiency she may have against an opponent, she has at LEAST two or three other areas that she is superior. Most importantly, she takes the main shortcomings of the 1-series Hogs: average at best acceleration and vertical performance, and turns them into strengths.
F4U-1A is the best pure dogfighter of the unperked Hogs. She's the fastest (marginally so over the the -1 birdcage) and with acceleration and vertical performance roughly comparable to the 1D. She's also the best turner of ALL the Hogs. There's more gas because of the wing tanks, however when burned down to 1/8th in each wing (left, then right) the effect on performance is negligible, IMO. Additionally, it's a nice security blanket. I know every time I fly a -4 or any other Hog without the wing tanks I end up wishing I had them (like last night, when a Spixteen perforated my FORWARD-MOUNTED FUSELAGE TANK FROM DEAD 6 AT 1500 YARDS :furious :mad: :furious :mad: :furious :mad: ). 1/8 in each wing will get you at least a sector with proper cruise settings. The chief knock many people originally had the 1A was that when first added the 1A loaded an equal amount of gas in all tanks (IE, take 50% fuel and 50% is loaded in all three tanks) however this was changed in one of the recent updates to use the same loadout as the -1 birdcage. Some people have begun flying her more since this change, however there are still a few who still consider her inferior.
F4U-1D is next for me. She's not as fast as the 1A because of the permanently-fixed pylons on the inner part of the wing, and she has more weight so doesn't turn quite as well. She's marginally superior in the vertical, though the difference is close enough as to be immaterial. I mostly use her as a bomb truck, and she's the best choice of the marks for ground attack. 2x1000lbers and 8xHVAR is enough to drop a hangar, and if you execute it properly you can loose all that ordinance on one pass so you don't have to go back through a second time.
F4U-1C I place fourth. Her speed is roughly on-par with the 1D, though she loses slightly in acceleration and the vertical. The key to the Charlie is raw firepower. The four Hispano 20mm pack a whallop, and have ballistics only marginally inferior to the Ma Deuce. As a result it takes very little time to switch between gunnery with the .50cal to the Hizookas. She also has a remarkably plentiful ammo load for a cannon-armed bird, and the sheer weight of fire makes kills in one sortie in the double-digits without rearming a clear possibility (though on a good day I could do the same with the .50cal). However IMO the cannon add just enough weight and reduction in performance that she's not my ideal choice for air-to-air. Granted the firepower makes her a good buff-hunter, but she's generally lacking compared to the rest of the lineup. Instead, I use her most often in a ground attack role. She lacks the extra two pairs of rockets in the 1D (4xHVAR, compared to the 1D's eight) however the cannon help to compensate, making her a very good strafer. She's the best choice for de-acking, strafing down town, and is one of the top vulchers.
Placing the F4U-1 at the bottom of the pack is probably going to earn me some flames, but I have my reasons. First and foremost, her acceleration and vertical performance are the poorest of all marks of the Hog, and in fact are near the bottom of the list for ANY fighter. The aircraft's sluggishness is VERY noticeable, especially if you spend time flying the 1A which is very close otherwise in performance. The 1A is slightly faster and a better turner, (although both are close enough as to not really have an effect in combat) and the 1A, C and D will all out-climb and accelerate the birdcage. Additionally, the low-set cockpit gives her about the worst forward view of any of the Hogs. I HATE trying to make deflection shots in the birdcage, because you're really shooting blind. Ironically, she does have the bet REAR view of all the Hogs, though the canopy frame blocks out a significant amount of the view from all other angles. That's not to say she's a bad ship, and there's some guys who can really make the birdcage dance, but the -1 really requires an experienced hand to be effective in Late War. She's much more competitive in the Mid War Arena.
Incidentally, VMF-251 is always on the lookout for other Hog fans so feel free to look us up.
VMF-251 Headquarters (http://vmf251-buccaneers.netprism.net)
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I'll leave the F4u-4 out of this cause it is the best prop plane in the game.
F4u-1: i rarely fly this variant because of it's poor climbrate, poor verticle preformance and poor cockpit veiws..However,if you are determined to use it to it's best attributes(concealing E & escape velocity) it can be a very leathal & fun alternative to the other Hogs.It has the advantage of wing tanks to counter engine torque at the top of the verticle(leave 1/4 in right) and has great range so you can set this plane up for a very leathal merge.
F4u-D:Better all round figher preformance(than -1) in most every way except you need at least 1 drop tank for climbout.But once you rid the tank,it can be flown at it's full potential until it's time to rtb.It has the best climbrate of the lot below 10k,so you can switch from slashing attacks to ropes & overshoot conversions as the fite gets lower cause it can regain E quickly when you pull the flaps & gear back up.
F4u1-A:First,never take a drop-tank with this variant cause the hardpoint for the DT is then modeled and nullifies the slight preformance the 1A has over the D.Burn the left dry & the right down to %50(it has more torque than -1) and fly on mains.It has a very slight advantage in everything over the 1D(except climbrate below 10k)Fly it as you would the D with the added benefit of acceleration,turnrate & speed.
F4u-C:The most leathal of the lot.Out of the hanger,the climbrate,speed,acceleration and turnrate is worse than the 1-a & D.So to get that preformance back,you have the option of dumping at least half the cannon ammo on the runway and thus matching(or surpassing) all the other hogs in preformance...and drastically exceeding them all (including -4) in firepower.By turning tracers off & setting convergence short,it's by far the best at snapshots & overshoot kills..You even have more options for experimenting with convergences too.
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I don't get it...for me all of the Corsairs are the most difficult to handle. Simple turns turn into stall/spins even when I have decent E. I'm new so it's obviously me, but compared to the LA, Zero, or almost any other fighter this thing handles like a bull.
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Originally posted by Lance48
I don't get it...for me all of the Corsairs are the most difficult to handle. Simple turns turn into stall/spins even when I have decent E. I'm new so it's obviously me, but compared to the LA, Zero, or almost any other fighter this thing handles like a bull.
I used to think the same thing.. Fly it for a month, and you will change your mind.
BTW, see if you can get some training time with TequilaChaser. Even though it took almost a year to believe him, I now think the F4U is the very best overall ride in the game.
TC, I would be honored to some time in the DA with you if you ever have a chance. I know I wouldn't last long, but it would be another learning experience.
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Lance --
Remember to always speak kindly of a lady! ;)
Honestly, it sounds like you're running up against the first big step in understanding combat in AH. The planes you mentioned all excel at one part of flight, and they are tremendously forgiving of misuse. In the end, most of those planes have something they do better than *anything* else in the planeset, so if all else fails you can fall back on an advantage that makes up for mistakes. The next step, though, requires that sim pilots understand the individual strengths and weaknesses of each design. That way you learn how to fly IN the plane, and maybe more importantly you inderstand what the plane's weaknesses are so you can BEAT the plane when you fly something else.
The Corsairs are probably my favorite AH family, though i don't come anywhere near the skill shown by guys like Saxman, SirLoin, Widewing, TC, and others. Main thing to remember is that these planes like to be fast. Bank up some energy, and use it smart...spend it carefully, and you can fight even with almost any plane out there. You do have to learn the touch, cause she won't let you yank the stick all over...but once you learn it, you'll find all sorts of interesting things. It's fast, not to outrun a Lala in a long chase but plenty to extend ranges and escape. It dives like a homesick rock. Its guns are deadly. It loves the rolling scissor, and with that move can slide behind almost anything when flown well. And, did you know that the F4U with full flaps has a smaller turn circle than the Spit VIII and SPit IX? Nothing qite as satisfying as surprising someone that way....
The Corsairs are simply a great transition ride for pilots looking to move past the planes that fly themselves. You have to invest some effort, and you ahve to learn to use her strengths while avoiding the weaknesses, but learning her is more straightforward than you'll find learning the quirks and strengths of many other planes. (For example, it seems to me that the Ki84 and P-38 demand more before the rewards start coming.)
BTW == If you get snaprolls and stalls, its usually because you're yanking the stick to fast, or pulling it into too much angle of attack. Best advice for that problem is...don't do that!
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Thank you.
Do you apply much rudder with her? If so where?
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Lance,
At the top of verticals. You can also use it to haul the nose over any time you have a target passing you just out of line (off-angle merges, etc). Rudder CAN also help you tighten up in some circumstances.
Honestly, this is why I wish the film viewer showed control surface movement, as rudder usage would be easier to show than describe
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Although at certain angles, with too much elevator and rudder input you could get in a nasty stall.
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True. But in level flight that also performs a snap-roll which can be beneficial in many cases (I use it sometimes if an opponent insist on a HO. It can be very effective at disrupting his aim and timing). Rudder can also greatly assist your rate of roll, especially in a rolling scissors (with practice you can take advantage of the snap-roll to roll into the upward or downward phase much faster).
Rudder is also a more effective method of shedding airspeed quickly in a fight, as opposed to lowering your landing gear.
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True, I've been trying to perfect the snap roll in the F4U and I'm still getting there.
Or, if you were crazy/dumb enough to try, you could use the gear in combination with rudder slip to practically stop in mid-air.
Also, I'm not too sure about the Corsair 'turning tighter' than Spitfires so much as turning faster. When I fought against Hog pilots as good in the Hog as I was in my Spit or against Spit pilots as good as I was in my Hog in the H2H, I often found that the F4U wouldn't out turn any Spitfire horizontally (except the 14 and usually the 16 unless the pilot was FX1 or Sonic who would give me a long fight in the Hog), but only though yo-yo's and loops.
Through a loop, it seems, the Corsair just powers on through and the already efficient flaps help it fly through a loop easily. The Spitfire, however, cannot follow through quite so easily especially at the top of loops sine it's too slow to be flying without flaps (i.e. it needs the flaps for more AoA) but if it does drop flaps, there's just too much drag to actually assist in turning. If the Spitfire had variable-degree flaps like a Hog or any other American plane for that matter, it would fly through loops better.
Though, the Spitfire's gentle stalls, if timed right with flaps, seem to actually let it smoothly 'fall' through the top of a loop rather than turn through it if you get my drift.
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http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
Compare the turn radius with flaps in the -1 vs. the Spits (-1 chosen as she's closest in turn radius to the 1A, which itself has the tightest turning radius).
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OK so when you pop the flaps down to make the turn do you leave them down and stay on the boggie or bring them right back up, shoot and extend? I think when I get in the situation to drop flaps I stay engaged to long and get way to slow.
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Depends on the situation. Under some circumstances, especially if your intent is to maintain speed, you want to retract them once you no longer need them for the turn or maneuver.
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I prefer the -1. I have no reason, just when I gotta fly a CV plane I'll pick that model.
If I'm going joyriding I'll bring a C-hog, but if there's not much air cover I'll bring a D-hog.
The -4 is fine when I take it out once in a while. Best prop in the game.
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If its just the two of you, and the other guys getting slow too, its ok to get slow.
If your in the mains and there are a number of cons around, the smarter thing to do is pop your flaps, make your move, take a shot, pull them flaps back in and do a quick check around to reassess the situation as you extend a bit.
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
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Also, I'm not too sure about the Corsair 'turning tighter' than Spitfires so much as turning faster........
In a dead flat turn, the corsair does make a smaller turn..and yeah, there have been times that I can use that to win. But not usually.
Because the spits -- especially the VIII and XVI -- have better thrust to weight ratios, they climb and accelerate better than the heavy hogs. (Assuming a co-E start; the Hogs do zoom well.) So, a spit pilot that knows his stuff will keep the nose up while turning, making a spiral climb instead of a flat turn. Even though the hog with full flaps can turn more tightly in a FLAT circle, once the climb starts time is on the spitfire's side.
If you get slow in a Hog, you better finish your work QUICKLY and get out of there. Otherwise, you will be in big trouble quickly.
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Ah yes, I looked up some of WW's more recent tests and found that he had similar results to the Gonzo charts.
I just thought the Gonzo charts weren't as reliable since they are still based on the old flight model of Hogs, but the turning for both old and new Hog remains the same.
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i prefer the 1a because of its incresed fuel range and that it can still take damage and can have a fuel leak and actualy make it back to base
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Scca,
my apologies for not addressing your request sooner, shoot me an email (or PM prefered) and we see about doing it this weekend if you like. ( recently had a 2nd division handed over to me to run, got 2 full plates on me during the week :-/ )
as for the question / comment of the Spitfire climbing out on the F4U, my theory or opinion is the spit flyer has to be a very good pile-it and know how to turn without draining his E, The F4U ( which mostly are flown by people who know a thing or 2 about them ), will most times be able to hang with the spit in a spiral climb if not actually overtake the spit, The spit in my thinking would have to get a good jump on the angles advantage and good distance/seperation on the F4U to pull it off.... too many variables really , this scenario is like 50/50 either way....discussing it here on boards and talking about flying Main Arenas...
As for using "Dropping gear" , I recommend to use this only in EXTREME situations...I probably can count on my 10 fingers how many times I have used "Dropping Gear" in the F4U in the whole time I have been here flying........( and most times it was against another F4U pilot of good caliber )
As to when and when not to use flaps: One should really learn their planes characteristics, meaning: know at what speeds each flap setting is designed for in your particular plane.
A quick and easy simple way to test/learn/write down your planes flap setting speeds is to:
- get up around 5,000 ft alt ( 5K )....
- slow down in level flight enough to get all flaps out ( Full Flaps out/down )
- push stick forward, putting plane in to a 20 to 30 degree dive
- Speed will begin to pick up now, start watching the MPH gauge ( IAS = indicated air speed = white needle )
- look for and write down the speed each time a flap setting automatically retracts
- do this for every flap setting until all flaps are retracted back in
- with this information, learn to use your flap settings within their respective speed ranges
- Then PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE
- as Ren quotes: Train Like You Fight, Fight Like You Train!
hope this is of some use to someone - cya up
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It's not the spiral climb that allows the Spitfire to beat a Hog...
The hog spirals WAY better than the Spitfire. It's the vertical loops that can do more for the Spitfire. The Hog zooms much better but if it needs to tighten the loop with a Spit, it needs to drop its flaps, thereby allowing the Spitfire pilot a few options: accelerate or sustain climb for some separation, or change direction in a lag-pursuit sort of way to allow for the acceleration to shine. I'm not sure how to explain it; I wish I could play someday soon to train a bit more and film it.
I've been wanting to go to the TA badly and fly the Spit14 to learn a few E-management tactics, similar to the lag-pursuits in the P-38 films someone posted late in 2007. It's a new way to fly a not-so-easy-mode version of my favourite plane.
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Well I prefer the F4u1d or the F4u4 of course :)
Since you asked for a flick below is a link to film I made earlier this week.
I'm a bit rusty, but maybe it will give you a few ideas on how to handle the hog.
You should pay attention to the flap control. You can't see the rudder, but one of the f4u's greatest assets is it's rudder. Hope the film helps give you some ideas to try, the hog is a great plane.
http://www.speedyshare.com/290737646.html
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They seriously need to have the film viewer track control surface position. I think I mentioned above but it would be a LOT easier to show when to use rudder rather than tell.
But to put it into perspective:
My X/O for a long time had a twisty stick for rudder. Then he got a set of pedals and flying the Hog afterwards was like night and day. The rudder in the Hog is one of the most effective of ANY ship in the game, not just because it has strong authority, but because it has strong authority at almost ALL airspeeds.
In most aircraft the rudder only makes a real difference when slow. However that big sail the Hog has on its rear is EXTREMELY effective at higher speeds, which can be a difference maker. It also really whips the nose around through wingovers or other high-AOA maneuvers. Proper execution you can catch a LOT of opponents by surprise with how fast you can swing around and drop on them at the top of a zoom. I've used it to effect getting a snapshot off I wouldn't ordinarily be able to make at high speeds (350-400mph!!!), including during off-angle merges (one particular incident I was coming in nose-to-nose with a Typhoon. He was off to my right, enough I couldn't turn in to get a shot without generating a HO which I would lose against those cannon. Instead I kicked full inside rudder to skid and got off a shot that struck the cockpit. A second later due to net lag JimBeam went "POP!" ;) ). That sort of skid is not something most aircraft can pull off in that speed range!
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I'll make mine short and sweet.
F4u4- I use it for air to air solely, except one day I forgot I was in one.
F4 C- For vulching, bombers, town. In that order :)
F41a - has long legs fights well, mostly air to air.
F4U 1D - for jabos and then still have the ability to get into the mix. Very vesatile plane like the F4 C and, if you dare the, f4u4.
Landing, use light left brake on landing and left rudder as needed. Once slow enought pull back the stick to lock the rear wheel on the runway. I can land them with no bounce most of the time.
This is my favorite plane set.
Still learned some things from you folks. Thanks