Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Mister Fork on January 13, 2008, 02:18:51 PM
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Please post all allied comments here.
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Anyone step up to be Allied Commander yet?
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Sir,
I suggest that some bases have only Jap planes, others German, others Italian, and the same for Allies. Some have British planes, others have American planes, other Russian planes.
Also suggest the possibility of "parking" the countries more or less as they are, geographically speaking...Germans and Italians in the center, Russians to the North and East, Americans West of the Brits and East of the Japs, the Japs West of the Americans and SouthEast of the Russians...
Also, I would like that someone established a protocol about radio channels for operational purposes. Someone should assume command, take the chair and give a different Allied Operational Voice Channel every day, or every shift...
This beeing a 24/7 event we need more than 1 commander...We should have 6 by side. Truekill doesn't sleep?
Cheers!
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Originally posted by sparow
Truekill doesn't sleep?
Nope. Sleeping is for the weak! :aok
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Allies,
I have been chewing on which plane (the Spit V or the B-25C) would be the better plane for addition to the Allies side. The Spit V would be great because of the cannons, however the B-25C would give us better bomber capability. Thoughts? My gut feel is the B-25C.
Oink
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Originally posted by waystin2
Allies,
I have been chewing on which plane (the Spit V or the B-25C) would be the better plane for addition to the Allies side. The Spit V would be great because of the cannons, however the B-25C would give us better bomber capability. Thoughts? My gut feel is the B-25C.
Oink
Agreed. But how I wish we had a cannon plane to make snapshot kills. .303 are painfully under whelming, and the 6-50 on the F4U are a god send but the plane is under powered and fodder to the AM6, especially against more than one.
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It's true, the B-25C would help out tremendously. I'm not sure on the load out, but it has to be better than the whopping 1X1000lb's you get with the SBD.
But, what happens should the Axis take the Ju-88? Do we have something that can take 88's down? I doubt that the Spit V would make THAT much of a dent in it, but it'd surely be better than .303's or even .50 cals.
By that token, I'd say the Axis at this point have a decisive advantage in that even if they take the Ju-88, and we take the B-25C, the cannons found in the 110 will make mincemeat out of it.
Just some food for thought.
I think i'd lean towards the B-25C myself, and just hope to have some fighter cover. It'd at least make it a little easier to drop some heavier targets.
Thoughts?
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B25-C
Armament:
4) 50 cal M2 with glass nose and bomb site
Optional:
10) 50 cal M2 solid nose strafer, no bomb site
10) 50 cal M2 semi-solid nose strafer, no bomb site
12) 100 lb bombs
8) 250 lb bombs
6) 500 lb bombs
3) 1000 lb bombs
It does have the loadouts we would need, especially in comparison to the SBD.
That brings up another question on the B-25C. Will we have the strafer & no-strafer options on this bird? Maybe someone from staff can fill us in.
The Spit V is a beautiful bird, but it really is a fighter killer and not a buff interceptor. There is just not enough cannon shells on board to deal with a formation of buffs, let alone one that has fighter escorts. It sure as heck would be a step up over the current fighter plane inventory though.
I am still really torn, both planes have their drawbacks and positive features.
Maybe we should ask the Axis guys what would be the scariest for them to deal with?:lol
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Originally posted by Chapel
Anyone step up to be Allied Commander yet?
i would not mind being the commander of the allied force.
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The B25 would be great like waystin2 said it would be great for killing hanger and town. With the 8 .50cals it would be a great deacker as well.
The spitV would be good as well. It having canon and all But is it worth it? 120 canon is good for a few kills but I'm thinking ahead of how we may need to take a base that has a town and it would take forever to kill town with a SBD with only 1 1000lbs and 2 100lbs bombs. The B25 would be great for killing town would only need two to three sets of 25's to kill a town taking only a few minutes. It would take for ever to kill town in a SBD.
I believe the B25 would be the best choice to go with. It can kill hangers and town with ease and with the 8 .50cals in the nose it would be a great deacker.
To add to what chaple said about killing JU-88's if the axis chose them. Ive flown in the SEA allied with spit and hurricane MRK I's and it is easy. With the F4F and the P40B with the .50cals it would even be more easier then just with the 303's of the MRK I's. And to add to what waystin2 said only 120 canon you have to make your shots count on the 88's. SpitV great for killing fighters but lacks the punch or fire power to take out a set of bombers.
VansCrew
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It's Chapel!!!!
Like the building, not the french!
I R NOT FRENCH!!
And yea, I'd have to agree on all counts as to the B-25C.
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The Commander of the Allied forces is...
CHAPEL. Congrats!
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
The Commander of the Allied forces is...
CHAPEL. Congrats!
Cool. The allies were starting to feel a bit like the headless horseman! Congratulations Chapel! The Pigs on the Wing are at your service.
Oink:D
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Congrats Chapel.
I throw my vote in for the B-25C. We really need a more capable bomber platform. If we organize it correctly we should be able to put bombs on target with enough fighter cover.
As for Ju-88 defense? Fighter shield where we think they might be coming from. They act as an early warning as well to alert and try to bring overwhelming force to bear.
My $.02.
Regards,
Yank
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Thanks fellas!
Lookin forward to seeing how this turns out.
Seems like we're going to be taking the B-25C as our plane choice then.
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Better check your timelines on Aircraft availability. The A-20-G was more widely in use. The B-25 would only be the glass nose available so forget the strafer. However, if you want to keep things on the up-n-up, I'd suggest... The Boston, better known as the A-20G or Havoc. Ioffer the following info;
at the end of 1941, British Havocs and Bostons had already performed well for most of the year against German targets in North Africa and Southern Europe... [/b] http://www.boeing.com/history/mdc/havoc.htm
A-20/Boston
Bomber/Attacker
Normal loaded weight:
24,000 lbs.
Dimensions:
Wing span 61'4"
Length 48'0"
Height 17'7"
Internal fuel:
725 gallons
Armament:
8x50 cal M2
250 lb bombs
500 lb bombs
Some of you guys have been saying the F4F is not up to tangling with the 109, A6M2, or even the 110. WTF-over??? I been killing far more of those Axis planes in my silly F4F than they have of me, so the problem there must be the pilot.
Would I like a nice cannon armed plane for the Allied? You bet I would... but then only cannon dweebs will be flown and the cries of Mini-MA! will abound! With the rare exception of my squad and a few others who prefer MG's to a small clip of boom-booms of course.
Originally posted by Mister Fork
The Commander of the Allied forces is...
CHAPEL. Congrats!
Please God say it ain't so! Nothing personal, but you have to be able to lead and rally the troops effectively. And I haven't seen Chapel (Shaw-pell?) do that yet. And NO, I am not asking for the job either!
There's my USD $0.05 on the topic
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Hello Odee,
In beginning this discussion I was only focusing on the planes that AVA staff was going to make available to us. I agree that the A-20 is a great bird. Good point on the glass nosed version B-25. I did post a question about this to the staff, but still have not seen a reply. I am not sure how they are deciding which planes will be available and when, but it certainly would be of interest for historical reasons. As far as the choice for Allied Commander, he's got my support until he proves himself unable to handle it. Nobody else was willing to step up (myself included), so it is what we have to work with. Let's give him a shot.
Oink
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Gents !
Congrats on selecting Chapel for allied c.o
The SpitV will destroy a set of 88's in 3 passes...
PATIENCE is a must, combined with altitude and I will still have rounds for a scrap with an enemy plane....
The SPITV will intimidate many ZEEK pilots especially with the turn ability and the cannons for a snap shot !
The axis at this time is stopping us with the A6M equiped with cannon rounds.
They will do the same to the B25's goin' in....
Neutralize the fighters and the SBD will nail the VH with no problems.
Anyway that was my opinion....:aok
I'm havin' fun with whatever decision is made !
Phil / OPP7755
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Concerning B-25C, here is my .02 cents. It can carry lot more bombs, but since the airfields are so close together, I don't know if it will be that effective. With SBD I can carry 1 1000lb, but if engaged by enemy fighter, I can easily drop my ordinance and give a decent fight.
Spit V has cannons, but with limited rounds.
So I vote for P-40E. IT HAS 6x .50 rounds, which can decimate 88 and ground targets, can turn fight against 109, and carry a 500lb bomb(I think)
In the beginning of the WWII 1939-1941, allies were strictly in the defensive.
Mugadai of the Mungadai Warriors
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Didn't mean to sound cold hearted about your selection. Congrats, sir. I look forward to your successfull tenure as CO. :aok
NO! to the B-25 for the simple reason that we all know there will be pilots not reading the MOTD, and even more that will take the No Bombsite Gun-nose version than the glass nose. Putting the 25 in will be a death knell to what's being attempted in AvA.
If we're going to keep this at least semi-historical and balanced then I suggest the Allies go with the Boston. It was available at the time and will fill the gap of no bomber nicely.
The SBD is a great bomber when flown as it was meant to be flown. Missions or by squadron. If you take it in solo or piecemeal you're just begging to pad somebody's score. As was mentioned before, you give the SBD some CAP/Escorts and she'll do us fine.
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I suggest whatever bomber you plan to put in, you allow it only at rear bases so it entices folks to mass for an attack instead of b25s out there hosing everything.
That also goes for any improved versions of fighters. Set them back a couple of bases.
Its still too early to put in the JU88 for the axis. But what else is there?
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Its still too early to put in the JU88 for the axis. But what else is there?
He111:D
Ju88 came out mid 41 so it will do when we win:p
I have a question, will formations be off?
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Originally posted by Chapel
Thanks fellas!
Lookin forward to seeing how this turns out.
Seems like we're going to be taking the B-25C as our plane choice then.
With all due respect sir, I ask you to seriously consider the thoughts put forward by both Phil & XAKL before making a decision on which plane. Both arguments have real positives. If I have to offer a firm opinion on the fighters, I say Spit V.
Oink
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A20G YES!
B25C NO!
Originally posted by FiLtH
I suggest whatever bomber you plan to put in, you allow it only at rear bases so it entices folks to mass for an attack instead of b25s out there hosing everything.
That also goes for any improved versions of fighters. Set them back a couple of bases.
Its still too early to put in the JU88 for the axis. But what else is there?
Except for the B25 part, this is the best post so far.
You know there will be abusers of the B25C in that players will take the nose-guns version over the more historical glass-nose. How can you not see this plane as bad for the Allies first bomber introduction when the Boston is the obvious choice?
Regardless, Bombers to the REAR please... OdeeI'd suggest... The Boston, better known as the A-20G or Havoc. Ioffer the following info;
at the end of 1941, British Havocs and Bostons had already performed well for most of the year against German targets in North Africa and Southern Europe...[/i] http://www.boeing.com/history/mdc/havoc.htm
No B25... please!
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If the axis gets the JU88 then we have an excellent interceptor for it. P40B stationed at alt over the pond and channel on the map. The Flying Tigers did a bang up job against bombers by diving on them. The question becomes one of reining in the allied side a bit and getting them to organise as well as it appears the axis have.
If we do in fact finaly have a command structur for each side, can that be updated to the MOTD to give legitamicy to their tenuous authority...hehehehe....:rolleyes:
As for allied tactics. I got some nasty grams on 200 last night becuase my squadmate Ainies flew perfict wing for me. We became a gang hoard of 2 by keeping it close and communicating on squad ch. I have been in green eyed jeolusy of some of the 2 man axis teams taking out up to 3x their numbers in the last few days. Kinda makes the whines on 200 the best kind of compliment for hard work to me and Aineis.......:aok
We need the Boston or B25C. The Boston has 6 .303 in the nose and I think is faster than the B25. SpitV has a tiny clip 60-20mm per wing. More of an expertin plane. We would have too many pilots returning home from feild attacks out of ammo too soon for it to be effective. Unless our fearless leader can talk the spitV heros into staying hi cap over the feild and not getting in the bushes.
Allies have the tools. It's just convincing our hero's to follow a plan. Fearless Leader where are youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....:D
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By the way......Fearless Leader....declair a tactical vox channel so we can have some semblance of an organised sheep ganging.............:O
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My previous post about the B-25C being our choice wasn't difinitive, set in stone, nor permanant. I was merely voiceing that it appears many allied pilots would like to see it as our next choice.
All considerations will be thought over, and everyone's input evaluated.
Those points suggested are definately valid and have thrown some weight to the fighter side of the choice. I do have some ideas for use on the B-25C though, so it'll be a tough choice.
As to weather the boston would be a better choice, i'm only working with what I have, when I have it. Perhaps it is more historical, maybe not. Bottom line is, it isn't offered to the allies, so we can't chose it yet.
As for abuse of a plane, again, nothing I can do about that. I hope that the allies will fly in a manner that is respectable regardless of what they're flying. However, there's always some bad apples and not much you can do about it except adapt.
See you in the skies!
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Hey.....shhhhhsshhhhh......gu ys guess what? The axis guys just complained about our secret whepon. They think we are F4F hoard driving dweebs. Keep up the good work guys..................:D
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This is MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
I thought the only planes available for the next round was SpitV, P-40E, or B25C. I didn't know Boston was available. Even with these choices, I still call for P-40E rather than SpitV or B-25C, for the reasons I've stated in my previous post. Whatever you choose I"ll support your decision, and do with what we have.
HOOOOOARGHHHHHHHHHH
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With the F4-F available, I honestly think the largest improvement would be the B-25C.
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As for abuse of a plane, again, nothing I can do about that. I hope that the allies will fly in a manner that is respectable regardless of what they're flying. However, there's always some bad apples and not much you can do about it except adapt.
...or leave.
Or better still, remove the temptation and use the Boston.
And by-the-way what is that hun Larry doing in here in the first place? and secondly, are we getting "Member only" threads for AxisvAllies like the FSO has?
SPIES every where I go there are SPIES!
:noid
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Why'd I not think of this before? don't answer that!
Maiden flight 25 November 1940
Introduction 1941
Retired 1956
Primary users Royal Air Force
Royal Canadian Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Produced 1940–1950
Number built 7,781
Mossie as the Allies Low/Med alt attack/bomber! Or the Boston! :cool:
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Chapel
Any decision you take, will make some happy and others not so happy...
Ah well, you're the C.O and we will put up with your decision like so many did in WWII.
Assess the situation and react accordingly.
Talk to your squad C.O's and get input from them.
When u log into AvA, what do you see in the skies that is a threat to your attack plans ?
What is the enemy doin' effectively ?
What tactics are they using and what are they stopping us with ?
Once you have some answers, choose what's available to you.
Ask HTC what they have in stores for you in the future rounds ?
Best of luck
Phil / OPP7755
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Originally posted by XAKL
This is MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
I still call for P-40E rather than SpitV
HOOOOOARGHHHHHHHHHH
I don't have much hours on the P40E but will it turn with the A6M ?
I think the P40E will not be able to stay in a prolonged turn fight with the A6M.
P40E as a good gun platform and will shred the enemy target but you will need a 3-4second burst. Will the P40E be able to "saddle up" with the A6M that long ?
Any ZEEKE pilot would comment on the above ?
What would give you the most fear ? P40E or a SPITV on your butt ????
Input anyone ?
Phil /OPP7755
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Originally posted by Phil
Any ZEEKE pilot would comment on the above ?
Someone did turn tests years ago, you can probably find the results by searching these boards.
My recollection is that the first three went like this:
A6M2
Hurricane I
A6M5b
So: the basic answer is that nothing really can turn with the zekes, and certainly not the P-40s (B or E). You have to use different tactics altogether. Very much as in real life.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Phil
I don't have much hours on the P40E but will it turn with the A6M ?
I think the P40E will not be able to stay in a prolonged turn fight with the A6M.
P40E as a good gun platform and will shred the enemy target but you will need a 3-4second burst. Will the P40E be able to "saddle up" with the A6M that long ?
Any ZEEKE pilot would comment on the above ?
What would give you the most fear ? P40E or a SPITV on your butt ????
Input anyone ?
Phil /OPP7755
Phil P40E does not outturn Zeke or 109 (welll.... maybe in capable hands and if the opponent is a noob) I'm calling it for it's excellent gun platform, and the ability to carry 500lb bomb.
If I was in a Zeke, I'd be more afraid of the Spit than the P-40E
Mugadai of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
HOOOOOARGHHHHH
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Good stuff. Forgot about the 500lb egg !
You answered my concerns....
If you were a Zeke, I would be afraid of the SpitV.
I still believe those Zeke pilots will intercept the P40's like they do with the SBD's:(
Ok, I'm heavy with the P40 and when I see the bogeys(Zekes), I jettison my load. Now I'm fighting the Zekes. What are my chances ?
Have several escorts(SpitV) with 3 heavy SBD's. Those Zeke pilots better fasten their seat belts !!!
I think you have a winning formula !!!!!!!!
We have a good arguement here :confused:
Anyone else want to provide some input ?
I hope the C.O is getting all this :lol
Phil / OPP7755
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Originally posted by Geophro
With the F4-F available, I honestly think the largest improvement would be the B-25C.
agree, somthing with more than 3 bombs would be nice.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Someone did turn tests years ago, you can probably find the results by searching these boards.
The results for the turning and a lot more can be found and compared at DokGonzo's Fighter Comparison Site, http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
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The Pigs squad was actually having some success with the SBD's last night, and I am leaning towards the Spit V. It will give all the Axis planes a serious run for their money. I am now firmly voting for the Spit V. The SBD's can do the job for now, but they need credible escorts. I will not be irritated with whatever choice is made.
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A good pilot will get about 3 turns in a P40E vs an average pilot in a A6m. Then its time to dive away and run.
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Also, with the B5N carrying 3 bombs, the stuka the fat bomb, the allies really need a plane that carries more than 1 1000 and 2 lil bombs. The 109 they have now if flown right, is as good as any fighter they could improve to over us anyways. Adding a SpitV and they add a 109f it will stay the same. We need a bomber like the B25 or Boston, whatever is available.