Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: JB21 on January 13, 2008, 11:26:08 PM
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Can't see your enemy because he is hiding? Well just turn down your graphics so you can see him behind that tree, bushes or hill HT put there for you to HIDE behind. Took me a while to figure out how GVs where shooting through hills and trees, but they werent really, they simply turned them off and shot at you best they could now that they see you in your best hiding spot.
Solution? If you turn down your graphics, then turn off everything including buildings, GVs, planes at whatever range you adjust your settings to. This way I can still HIDE!
Don't need air support, we can see the GVs comming 20 miles away from the tower, thanks to the graphic slider!
Couldn't find anyone complaining about this! Hope Im not alone!
Please comment HT/Sudz!
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Okay, but then you can give me $1000 to buy my new system. My old good one craped out on me about a month ago. Now Im running on a POS and the ONLY way for me to play is to turn the graphics down.
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Greetings,
You would think, if you turned down graphics, it would result in you not seeing the 'tree' or whatever, nor seeing what is behind it.
Just a thought.
Regards,
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Originally posted by Larry
Okay, but then you can give me $1000 to buy my new system.
if you need $1000 to max out this game, which by ANY standard is VERY undemanding on GPU or CPU.
you are a retard :aok
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This issue has been debated/discussed ad nauseum.
There are many, including myself that can't run full graphic detail. I'd love to have a better machine but I can't afford it.
Unless HT comes up with another solution, the one that exists now is turn your object detail down to gain the same advantage.
Limiting seeing anything dependent on settings just gives the advantage to those with better machines, who will have long range vision compared to those with older systems, so that's not a solution.
The other solution is to buy all of us with older machines new machines.
I'll be waiting for mine.
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Originally posted by Wingnutt
if you need $1000 to max out this game, which by ANY standard is VERY undemanding on GPU or CPU.
you are a retard :aok
$1000 will get you a great home built computer that can run max hi res at great FRs. SO no my friend you are the retarded one.
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Originally posted by Larry
$1000 will get you a great home built computer that can run max hi res at great FRs. SO no my friend you are the retarded one.
..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
can you read?
You just said the same thing I just said(relatively) .. and called me a retard for saying it.
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Originally posted by Wingnutt
..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
can you read?
You just said the same thing I just said(relatively) .. and called me a retard for saying it.
From what I read in your first post it looked like you said it wont take $1000 to make a computer to run max settings.
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I doubt you would need a grand to make a good computer for just AH. I'm building a new computer from scratch now and it's only going to cost about a grand. I'm buying all the parts separately and not assembled so that makes it a bit cheaper... But still it's a Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.40GHz CPU, 2048MB DDR2 800MHz RAM, and a GeForce 8600 GT 512MB DDR2 Video Card. More then enough to run AH at high-res with an extremely high FPS rate...
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You are not alone in wanting some solution to this "problem" of gaming the game. My side is I have a nice computer with an awsome graphic card. But I get punished for that on the other side of the coin. I think a better solution is to remove ALL trees, buildings, hedge rows, bushes, hills, ground cover of any kind. Also flatten the land scape so there are no mountains and everything is boring. That way I can see that tank 3 miles away too!
Or as stated in several post about this subject (seems to pop up weekly) if you can't see the tree/building you can't see the GV.
What alot of people do also is disable the skins of other players....makes the default skin appear. Makes the panzer/tiger tanks stand out with thier brown skins. We don't even have brown landscapes:O
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if your computer performance isnt up to scratch then thats your problem, why should a larger percentage of subscribers suffer for people with low end PCs, this game was created a few years ago when PCs were not that powerfull, but in this last 3 years PCs have become mega machines and HTC need to realise this and sort their game out and bring it upto date with todays technology.
Nowadays you can buy a great PC for as little as 400 dollars, that will give you performance and graphics performance, just go look at your local retailer and see what deals you can make. This game has become like an ageing prost, old worn out and battered i want to see more for my money.
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I have a solution take all GV's out of the game and let HTC add a few more planes. Lets face it the game is called Aces HIGH not GV's Low.
The gfx slider only allows you too see where they are coming from not shoot through buildings/objects. You still have to make a clean shot.
Sound preferences can be played with also to distinguish exactly where the enemy is coming from and it travels along way.
Surely seeing where the enemy is promotes fighting. Seems to me that certain campers who may take the time to find the "perfect spot" feel hard done by that people can shoot back!
A plane can see you easy why not ask for GV tags to be turned off rather than something that will effect multiple low end users and many man hours adapting the coad.
Bruv
~S~
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well i added a graphics card for 100$ and a gig of mem for 60 game is playable just fine.
i have 1500 mg mem 256mg 6200 geforce 3.5mghz procesor intel
i run 1024/78 something res at 512 text and it plays fine my frames never go below 40
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I continue to be amazed that people consider running reduced graphic details to be cheating.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I continue to be amazed that people consider running reduced graphic details to be cheating.
Well, at the list it is not fair. When I brought my sliders down to improve FPS, I could see where every one was hiding at. I could not shoot them, but I could see them. If the had their sliders set to max, they would have no clue were I was and I could sneak up behind them. I guess it is not cheating until you start moving them up and down in order to find the other guys. Fix please?
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Maybe not allow the graphics to be adjusted "In Flight"?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Well, at the list it is not fair. When I brought my sliders down to improve FPS, I could see where every one was hiding at. I could not shoot them, but I could see them. If the had their sliders set to max, they would have no clue were I was and I could sneak up behind them. I guess it is not cheating until you start moving them up and down in order to find the other guys. Fix please?
It's entirely fair. Nothing whatsoever stops anyone from running the absolute minimum detail levels.
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I'd have to agree with Hub on that one. (did I really just admit that?) :noid
I may have said this before, but.....
With graphics turned down, certain objects are removed from VIEW.
THEY (the trees, buse, etc) ARE STILL THERE!
You may see something better, but 90% of the time if you shoot, your rounds will hit some "invisible" object that would be visible if the graphics were turned up.
Lowering graphics settings is not some "let's make the foliage dissapear" David Copperfield trick to make killing another GV easier.
Not everyone has a awesome rig. I say work extra to get the money for upgrades. That's exactly what I did, but more easily said than done for some.
That being said, I doubt it will change. Commerce is commerce and I don't think HTC has any plans of cutting their own throat by alienating, what appears to be, a fair amount of their customer base. It would equate to them saying "If your computer sucks, you can't play our game."
Imagine if you went to your usual gas (or Petrol if you prefer) station, and without warning they would no longer sell you fuel for your "crappy" Ford Tempo, or what if they only sold 93 (premium) octane and had no other choices anymore. You would find another fueling station for sure.
I would bet that HTC isn't in the habit of throwing away money.
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It does take some of the challenge out of the game. The stalking, the hiding, the hunt, the excitment...doesn't anyone like a challenge? I think thats the reason the ground cover is in the game. Maybe HTC thought it was time to upgrade the game whent he put that stuff in and it had in a sence backfired. While upgrading the game also gave the weak gvers an out to game the game.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It's entirely fair. Nothing whatsoever stops anyone from running the absolute minimum detail levels.
Uhhuh, why would you lower your settings if you don't know this was happening? How many people read this board? I guess it would be too hard to not show the GV if it is hidden? Anything is better than getting right :lol
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If you go to your local wal-mart you can get a great deal I bought a Dell Inspiron 531 with 22' lcd 2gigs ram 500ghdd for less than $800 put in a evga 8600gt for less than $100 and got a great gaming machine. I could have built my own but Im not that into gaming. You could get an even cheaper machine or just the comp no monitor and even a cheaper card wich is very simple to install.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Uhhuh, why would you lower your settings if you don't know this was happening? How many people read this board? I guess it would be too hard to not show the GV if it is hidden? Anything is better than getting right :lol
A better question is why would people, who don't know that others have reduced their settings, be complaining about other people reducing their settings? The answer is that they wouldn't be. Those complaining already know what's happening, and how to deal with it. Nice try though.
As for your idea, it has been discussed numerous times, and the same fundamental flaws were revealed each time. I'll make it short and sweet, because you obviously can't be bothered to read up on it when you can be complaining about HT's code.
Currently, we have a situation in which some people run lower settings, and some simply refuse to do anything but *****, even though they could use the same settings. The two most common solutions, locking detail levels, and tying GV vis range to graphic detail levels both result in a hardcoded advantage for customers with higher end systems.
What this means is that instead of people being blindly stubborn, knowingly putting themselves at a disadvantage, the playing field would not be level for all of HTC's customers, some of whom would now be trying to compete against players who could see them from ranges at which they are invisible to others. Is that clear enough?
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Its not about "my system is better than yours" or fighting fire with fire and just sliding everything to the right so you can see the "cheaters" as well as they see you. The fact is, terrain, trees, houses, etc. is what defines which strategy a GVer will utilize. Its disappointing to see that strategy can go out the window so easily by modifying the graph sliders.
I also understand this is a flight simulator mainly, and HTC probably wont spend a lot of time fixing this issue, but it is definitely annoying, and it really turns me off from using GVs at all. During a VH capture attempt, i was up in a hill, hidden behind a forest, yet, all the GVs down below could see me quite well... And I can bet you it wasn't because all of them had outdated rigs which demanded their graphs be set to the minimum settings. Like I said, disappointing, but it is what it is. Hopefully, something that might get addressed one day.
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There is a very easy answer to all this but HTC needs to do it. I dont honestly know if they ever read the forums much. How many wishlist items are in development? How long does it take to fix a bug in the code?
With that said, HTC works very hard for us and the few people there I have had contact with are dedicated to our satisfaction. It is a delicate balancing act, to fix everything fast they would have to hire more developers and then our subscription would need to rise.
But...
I digress....
Back to the issue,
Code the "lower" graphic detail models to create ugly tress (circa 1990 graphics) SO instead of disappearing all that is there is a block of green pixels for a tree.
This would completely remove the need to be talking about Graphics Cheaters.
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I think its a moot point, I simpathise thoe as a GVr it erks me to no end that we cant hide when we need to but asking every one to play by the same ruels even when thay can when ther is a cheat,, thats not gunna happen. Some one will still be running a Good PC with the slider all the way to fastest and 3 mile range set so thay can WIN WIN WIN. Id say it would be easer to just A) do away with GV icons for aircraft (lets fase it thay can see the little black dot even in s barn or thrue tarain and thats enough, B) make it so if the detail is slid then the distance will go down to. That will help. Never will get a sulution every one will agrey to. but :aok Gotta keep an trying. thanks HTC for even listening to us :D
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There's probably no real answer to this. Not everyone can, or has, an up-to-date gaming PC. On the same token, It might be a major problem for HTC to try to code in something that hid the other players' when the Detail slider is dropped to minimum.
It's the same thing as when we used to have night. A whole bunch of people would cry about it being too dark, or wouldn't fly then. The solution then was to move your gamma slider over, until everthing brightened up again. Not everyone knew about this, and there were numerous allegations' of cheating made, about people still blowing stuff up and getting kills' during the dark hours. Eventually, HTC did away with night in the arena's.
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Hmmm
I understand that certain people have lower end machines. But I cannot run my Apple IIe on this game. Where is my excuse for lower graphics?
Cant I just sit here and pull out my $1.99 calculator and hook it up and play? Come on! You do not need to invest much to have a machine run with full or close to full graphics. My puter is 4 years old. I simply added some ram and I use FSQuick start which turns off ALL background programs and wow have things improved.
To that end, I think that the graphics lock to range or whatever is the best idea. If your machine cant handle it well get a new one. They are so cheap nowadays. You dont have to go to radio shack and build a new puter. Upgrade or get new. HTC has to draw the line some time. I know. My buck.99 calculator doesnt work here either. Dam Im bummed.
Its not a sin to turn down graphics. I just think that the surrounding 500 yards should still be there so as to block the vision of that player. If your puter is that big of a piece of crap get a new one. LOL Or?
See my post on new default skins for Panzers and Tigers.
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Too bad, HTC dont want to fix this lame feature.
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In my experience over almost 10 years and sims by 4 different developers, HTC is far and away the most responsive game developer to in-game issues. (The Rats on the other hand are far and away the most communicative). So I really doubt that they are simply "refusing" to address the issue -especially just to torque anyone's sensitives. Unless you are the one who knows the code, it's not like you get to decide what's a simple fix and what isn't.
On the other hand, for me personally, it's not that much of an issue. I've never yet been able to see a tank that I couldn't see before if I play with the slider, and I can't shoot for @#*[ anyway so I die to the better players regardless of where they might or might not have the slider set to, simply because they can always target me long before I can target them.
I'd kind of prefer that the slider be available at least while FLYING, because while I usually have both all the way up there are times when in busy areas it just gets too stuttery, and I find I need to dial it back down. That's never happened to me on the ground, but that's not to say that it doesn't happen to others. I have a "top of the line" computer that's now about a year and half old, so it's about mid-range now. Other's must settle for a lot less hardware.
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Originally posted by Larry
$1000 will get you a great home built computer that can run max hi res at great FRs. SO no my friend you are the retarded one.
You can do it for 1/2 that. If yu know what you are doing.
What most don't realize is:
1. The human eye connot see frame rates above 60. Anything above that is wasted.
2. For the most part the issues many people experience in this game are not related to CPU/GPU/Network/Internet or HTCs servers. It the configuration of their computer. If you get rid of all but the most necessary processes running on your PC you will not have problems.
I do simpathize with your situation Larry, Even @ $500.00 if I had to buy a new rig now it would be hard to justify the expense.
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It's not that simple Clifra. There's a difference between 60 and 120fps. If it's not seen, it's felt.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
Unless you are the one who knows the code, it's not like you get to decide what's a simple fix and what isn't.
Linking details range and GV's visibility range is simple fix, you dont need to know code to say it. Only problem i see, will be lots of threads named "Invisible tank hits me from nowhere, whaaa, whaaa". Still much better, 'cause whines doesnt affect gameplay.
Originally posted by Ghastly
On the other hand, for me personally, it's not that much of an issue. I've never yet been able to see a tank that I couldn't see before if I play with the slider, and I can't shoot for @#*
Im sorry, but you or lie or dont play GV's game enough. Difference is like close and open eyes (of course, if you not on open terrain of way long).
Originally posted by Ghastly
I'd kind of prefer that the slider be available at least while FLYING
I second it. Sliders are problems for GV game only.
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easy fix. if a GV is behind a object, be it hill, tree, building that @ normal graphic slider position. then when turning sliders down, will still not make the GV visable. you can turn the slider all the way down but just dont display the GV is its hidden by a object.
or you can like it to line of sight, if you dont have a clear line of sight to the GV, dont display it no matter the slider position.
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Originally posted by Bruv119
I have a solution take all GV's out of the game and let HTC add a few more planes. Lets face it the game is called Aces HIGH not GV's Low.
Some squads like GV operations, though. That can be very effective at times when well organized.
You make it sound like there is no skill involved in flying a tank.
SIG 220
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Here is the problem kiddo's
Its how the aces high engine HANDLES the graphics.
To get better fps every bush is cut away, the real thing we need have is for RANGED detail to be taken away, and the detail a player see's "let say upto meh 200" should be the same *altho a bit toned down maby via- model graphic wise, and LOD.* This would make it so people could not cheat.
If they put theyre slide down, they would get less bushes/models .ect at LONGER ranges, and hence couldnt sit behind bush's taking pot shots at people.
Also another way would be the option to put "WAY" low res skins on models bush's .ect that woulda also use less load on a persons computer.
Take operation flashpoint, you can set bush detail and res of textures used, on models, objects ground locations .ect.
This would enable a player to set his ground detail to low, all while still having almost* as many tree's ground object as possible.(even tho the game at that point would look like rubbish :) ) It would still be playable.
***Important***
The real flaw with what is happening now is more a game dynamics problem, for instance rounds come from a "spawn" point on the model, tanks can shoot THRU objects because the barrel can pass thru it "big nono" now, the only two options to fix this problem..
1:You move the spawn point of the gun to the very end "more to the turret" that way it will still have the same trajectory/arch .ect, but it will be IMPOSSIBLE for that person to abuse any gv ever again. No matter who can see what from where. (very simple model edit)
2:You make the model's "collide" and hit objects/bush/trees .ect. Imagine if you will, a tank that cannot turn its turret a full 180 because, or the turret will become locked/stuck on the object. This would make guns stop on object, therefor they would not be able to "slide" theyre gun thru the object and shoot, no matter if they could see or not.( a very hard a long process to code right, if at all.)
IMHO we should go with #1, simply move the "spawn" point of the tanks main gun BACK to the turret more, so even if they poke that barrel thru, they cannot hit the target, period. and doubly interesting is the fact this fix should contain just editing the model's in question.
Even if they can see you, they cant shoot you.
Top view of tank parked behind a bush, the red box is the spawn point, of the projectile, the rest is fairly stright forward.Note how once the spawn point is moved back, it becomes impossible to fire thru the bush, also notable is the gray ring around the turret, this is the max area of rotationthe spawn would move around the tanks hull, that way no matter what way the player puts the tank upto the tree, it will NEVER be able to be put close enough that the spawn pass's thru the flash bush, PERIOD.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a107/BaDkaRmA158Th/hopeithelps.jpg
What say you all?
Hope this helps. :aok
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Im sorry, but you or lie or dont play GV's game enough. Difference is like close and open eyes (of course, if you not on open terrain of way long).
I never said I was an expert at the GV game (I'm not, I'm just starting) - I'm just saying that I haven't ever changed the slider and seen something that I couldn't see before. Half to 3/4ths of my deaths to other tanks are to a tank that I can't even locate before I die, and all I'm saying is that when I've adjusted the sliders as discussed in this thread, I still don't see whatever is shooting at me.
And the point about the code was that many seem to have decided that HTC simply refuses "for no good reason" to make a change, when my experience suggests that they work at least as hard and more effectively than any other developer who's game I've ever flown in to address issues in game play. If they don't do a "simple" fix, it's probably because it's not as simple as you think, or that they foresee negative consequences that you don't.
BadKarma, I believe (someone correct me if they know I'm wrong) that at least part of the issue with your option number 2 is that in 3D graphics modeling, each object that can be collided with chews up a certain amount processing determining whether or not a collision has taken place, so setting "everything" to no collide would make the game unplayable.
The only real dog I have in this hunt is that I'd like to see that it doesn't change so that you can't adjust it while flying, which seems much less prone to abuse and is at times of great benefit in maintaining playable frame rates. If I want to play a game that's optimized toward ground play to the point where air to air is so poor as to be not worthwhile, I'll go back to WWIIOL.
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Originally posted by moot
It's not that simple Clifra. There's a difference between 60 and 120fps. If it's not seen, it's felt.
Myth.
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Nope. I was playing old games that used to max out at around 60fps, and a year later running them at 300 fps was obvious and confirmed after I noticed it by turning on the fps counter.
Even 60fps is noticeably slower than 100fps, if you've played fast paced games where reflexes matter, like racing or CS, it's very obvious. Either that or all those games' fps counter is inaccurate.
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Originally posted by moot
Nope. I was playing old games that used to max out at around 60fps, and a year later running them at 300 fps was obvious and confirmed after I noticed it by turning on the fps counter.
Even 60fps is noticeably slower than 100fps, if you've played fast paced games where reflexes matter, like racing or CS, it's very obvious. Either that or all those games' fps counter is inaccurate.
Agreed. Must have an inhuman eye because I can definately tell the difference. It flows like water at 100+ fps. At around 60 it just isn't that smooth to my eye. Very nice, but nowhere near as nice as 100.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
For the most part the issues many people experience in this game are not related to CPU/GPU/Network/Internet or HTCs servers. It the configuration of their computer. If you get rid of all but the most necessary processes running on your PC you will not have problems.
Dell Dimension T-600
600 meg PIII
528 megs PC100/PC133 SDRAM
64 meg NVidea G-Force MX-440
Soundblaster Live Value sound card
Windows 98
Frame rates normally in the 25-35 range although dropping to high teens on rare occasions. I can't turn object detail up without frames dropping into low teens to single digets.
My configuration is as clean as it can possibly be, otherwise I wouldn't be able to get the FR's I do with this machine. No further updates are possible due to the antiquated technology on the mobo.
I wish I had $500-1000 for a new rig (but I probably wouldn't buy it; I've actually been shopping parts, dreaming, and trying to figure out how I might afford a new machine... got a $1600 rig all picked out :) ).
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BaldEagl you are in my prayers.:(
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Originally posted by JB21
Can't see your enemy because he is hiding? Well just turn down your graphics so you can see him behind that tree, bushes or hill HT put there for you to HIDE behind. Took me a while to figure out how GVs where shooting through hills and trees, but they werent really, they simply turned them off and shot at you best they could now that they see you in your best hiding spot.
Solution? If you turn down your graphics, then turn off everything including buildings, GVs, planes at whatever range you adjust your settings to. This way I can still HIDE!
Don't need air support, we can see the GVs comming 20 miles away from the tower, thanks to the graphic slider!
Couldn't find anyone complaining about this! Hope Im not alone!
Please comment HT/Sudz!
Yes this happens to me alot, or the 1 shot wonders, its happened to me alot and I have actually done it (srry JunkyII) i was in a sherman and i saw a tiger like 400 yards away from me, hit the front of it, it exploded........
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You CAN still hide, it just takes some experience to figure out how. I got pummelled for 2 months in GV's before I learned the nuances of how to manuever, view, aim, and yes, hide from opponents. Making the graphics requirements too stringent will not make you a good tanker. You have to do this yourself. There are many good GV'ers out there who do not turn down their graphics. This is not a prerequisite for success.
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I leave my graphx settings maxed out. I have figured out ways to help even the playing ground. Once you think like they do you can use the fact they can't see the tree/hill your behind against them. Still don't like the fact they can just turn down thier settings and see for miles.
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GVs should remain invisible when behind cover, irregardless of graphics settings, unless their main gun has a line of sight to you.
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Allot of possible options but what about Battlefield? In that game you cant see targets like in here. The terrain is not the issue nor is the vis distance it’s the black dot that marks all manned GVs and air craft. But in Battlefield they have good graphics and terrain detail and no black dots, and your camo works to a good extent. I don’t really know the differences in the engines of the games or the Tech stuff but it would seem that getting rid of that black dot anomaly would make a big difference.