Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: SgtPappy on January 14, 2008, 10:23:41 PM
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HAH! No way, we have enough as it is. Maybe a Spit XII one day but not now.
Now that I've got your achtung (spitfire), why not a Seafire III, since it was the most common Seafire out there, or at least a Seafire IIc with corrected boost settings of +16 lbs. boost.
Seafire F.III's and L.III's entered service mid-war, near the end of 1943. Better prop blade, manually folding wings (which isn't modeled but will add to weight and thus change performance) than the Seafire IIc. Its 1470 - 1585 hp Merlin 55 (M depending on which is modeled) along with the 4-blade prop is unique to the Spit/Seafire line and the plane is probably going to have different flight and performance characteristics compared to other Spits.
I have not been able to find a weight figure (the most common auw being ~ 7100 lbs. but that's contradicted by the game's Seaf IIc which has an auw of 7063 lbs. yet with no folding wings), but if its lighter than the IX and heavier than the V, that will amount to some interesting energy fighting qualities.
Forgive my dweebery, this hasn't been talked about in a while and I'm finding the Seafire IIc to be just as important as the more common but slightly less battle-hardened Seafire III.
EDIT: Seafire III's had manually folding wings which may be the only reason for the tiny weight diff. when compared to the Seafire IIc.
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Yep. :aok
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I would like to see the latewar Spit XXI (perked of course)
"March 1944 saw the prototype Mk XXI take to the air with a Griffon 61 engine. It was capable of giving over 2,000 hp and the aircraft was taken on as a high altitude air superiority fighter with a forecasted speed of over 470 mph. Sadly the prototype could only reach 450 mph and so the aircraft proved to be a disappointment. At the end of World War Two only 120 Mk XXI Spitfires had been built, all with the return of the older style cockpit and canopy."
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You can never have enough Spitfires!! We need MOOOORRRREEEE!!! :p
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yes
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Get the Spitfire MCCCXXXVII! :D
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Originally posted by Latrobe
You can never have enough Spitfires!! We need MOOOORRRREEEE!!! :p
Amen to that!:t
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All I heard was spit XII. The rest is just filler.:D
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About the only one missing that I'd like to see is the Mk VC with 4x20mm's, or one of the other 4x20mm C variants (perked of course).
The XII was actually a predecessor to the XIV which we already have (but may still be worth having in-game) while the 21 barely saw service (1945 intro).
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
The XII was actually a predecessor to the XIV which we already have (but may still be worth having in-game) while the 21 barely saw service (1945 intro).
Bzzzzzt the Mk XII was designed as a low mid alt fighter. Engine was set up for this purpose as was the clipped wings
While the Mk.XIV was the high alt fighter. More boost at high alt and full span wings.
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Technically both the Spitfire Mk.21 and Seafire Mk.XV saw service before the war ended. So did the Bearcat. Unfortunately neither actually 'saw combat' and therefore, were not valid to hold the title of 'served'.
The XII would be great but I'd like to see that added when everything else is done since it's more like sprinkles on top of the cake. The Seafire L.III though was the most common Seafire ever built in WWII and it did fight and see combat. It participated in the ETO, the MTO and the PTO and deserves a spot somewhere.
It's also unique in being the only 'Spit' to enter combat with a Merlin 55M and a 4-bladed prop. It will likely climb almost like a Spitfire LF IX un to around 6000 feet I believe, or around that figure.
EDIT: It can carry 4x rockets typical of the design found on Typhoons, and a 500 lb bomb like the current Seafire.
The perk option for the 4x 20mm Vc would make sense, but some extra drag modeling would be put on its Volkes filter... I've never seen a Spitfire Vc enter combat with 4x 20mm without a Volkes.
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Someone say Spitfire XII?
Spit 21 had very limited use out of England with 91 Squadron at the very end. They flew some patrols over Holland. They lost 2 to flak and claimed a midget sub they shot up.
XII was much more of an active participant. And as much as I love Spits, the notion of a 4 cannon Spit doesn't work for me. Too many folks hiding behind 4 cannons as it is.
Seafire LFIII would be nice as it's got more skinning options and was optimized for the low alt stuff. XV again just wasn't involved, and I like the XV as it's the navy version of the XII and I'm a Spit XII junkie.
The prototype Spit XII DP845 banks away from Charles Brown's Camera. DP845 being flown by Battle of Britain vet and Supermarine Service Test Pilot F/L Clive Gosling. October 16, 1943. Ain't she purty? :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DP845.jpg)
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Heheh only a matter of time till Guppy had to open his big mouth/database of twelvefires.
If the Seafire XV managed to fight that last battle over Tokyo Bay on the 15th of August, 1945 in the stead of those Seafire L.III's, there would be no doubt as to what aircraft would be my favourite. But, as it is, the Seafire III, though slow wasa great climber with much firepower, and if the weight was actually ~ 7100 - 7200 lbs all up, it's pretty maneuverable as well.
I'd settle for that.
It's got better range than most Mk.XII's too, Gupp :p
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Ain't she purty? :)
Nope. Hideous. Whats with all that oil streaking out the bottom? :rolleyes:
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I still think we should have a perk option for 20mm spits just make it pretty silly. Say 50-100 perks for the extra cannon. :D
Has anyone got any figures on the amount of 3 cannon armed LA7's that fought?
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Originally posted by Bruv119
I still think we should have a perk option for 20mm spits just make it pretty silly. Say 50-100 perks for the extra cannon. :D
Has anyone got any figures on the amount of 3 cannon armed LA7's that fought?
2 20s is plenty. And there just weren't that many 4 cannon Spits in action and those few that were, did not use them in air combat.
If you want to fill out the Spits all the way, you'd need a Spit II with metal ailerons which would differ from our Spit I in the roll rate. The Spit Vc with the Merlin 45 for 42-44, the Spit XII and the Spitfire LFIX with full span Universal wing for 1943-44 to go with the LFXVIe that's 1945.
Can we live with out em? Sure, but they'd be fun :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Can we live with out em?
Noooooooo!!! Must have al spits NOW!!! :D
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in reply to Bruv119,there were roughly 368 3 cannon la7's delivered, compared with over 3000 2 cannon La7's.
The La-7 scored 55 victories in the 63rd Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment between September 15th and October 15th 1944.
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^ LaLa dweeb. ^
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Sgt Pappy -
Also the Seafire L IIc (all IIc's ended up as L IIc's after Merlin 55M refit) - 4 pladed prop and 12 exhaust stacks.
IIc we currently have never lasted long as they realised the Merlin 45/46 wasn't up to the job. The majority were built as L IIc's, the earlier Merlin 45/46 batch refitted with Merlin 55M's.
If memory serves - They only produced the initial batch of IIc's for aprrox 3 months.
Apart from post war Seafires and the first converted Vb's the IIc is the rarest Seafire.
As you said the most common BY FAR was the LIII followed by the LIIc
A LOT of LIII's flew clipped, fully loaded off carriers!!!!!
To have a full range of representative Spits in AH -
Merlin 55M Vc or LIII - One can double for the other.
XII - Pretty important milestone, first Griffon Spit.
Not sure about the LFIX - XVI is a very good standin barring the 2 x .50s.
Maybe for a perked Spit (unperk the XIV it's not worth it) an F.21
Also either the XIV or XVI needs to be boosted so we at least have a 1945 Spit ( I know both were originally boosted Mid - Late 1944, but they would be an option for a 1945 Spit )
Good thing is assuming the models were built modularly they have all the parts to do any of the Spits apart form bubble hood ones.
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I have read of Merlin 55M Spitfire V's before, but I could never find a picture with a caption labeled as such. Also, official tests often state that the Spitfire LF V usually had a Merlin 45M, and the only 50-series engine Spitfire V had was the 50/50M.
besides, the Seafire III I believe, was more common with a 55M than a Spitfire LF V with a 55M. Also stated, the Seafire had the 4-bladed prop which is likely to act differently than an LF V's prop. We've also got rockets and bombs on the F/L III. Though, honestly, I'd prefer the F.III because it has a better climb-top speed balance, the L.III was more common and is probably likelier to arrive if any new Seafires arrive.
XII is surely a welcome plan, but it was made in such few numbers; I'd like to have the Seafire added first.
No need for an LF IX; we've got a XVI, though the Merlin 266 is actually supposed to have a differently tuned supercharger, having the stage kick in and kick out alightly above and slightly below respectively when copared to the original Merlin 66 according to the manual.
If a 1945 representation arrives, maybe it will be an FR.XIV? Bubbletop canopy, clipped wings, rear-fuselage fuel tank. Pretty ugly Spitfire if you ask me, but the most accurate representation of a 1945 operational Spitfire.
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Seafire
Bf.109T :t
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Originally posted by Motherland
Bf.109T :t
Never saw combat off of a carrier, unlike the Seafire.
There are definately gaps in the Bf109 lineup that would be great to see filled. The Bf109T is not one of them.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Never saw combat off of a carrier, unlike the Seafire.
There are definately gaps in the Bf109 lineup that would be great to see filled. The Bf109T is not one of them.
I know. I was kidding around. Though, the 109Ts were converted back to 109E's and saw combat IIRC.
I would like a 109G10 and 109G6A/S out of seriousness.
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Unfortunate that the German navy's only flat-top was never used. I wonder what could have happened if Germany helped Japan as much as the U.S. and Britain helped each other in their battles like D-Day in the ETO or the attacks on Sicily.
Back to the Seafire, I think the F.III would actually be acceptable because it still performed differently when compared with the other Spitfires with a Merlin 55 since the Merlin 55 is a +16 lb boost engine. It would be like putting the old AH:1 Spitfire V back but with a slightly different setup. Sites say that the F.III was quickly replaced by L.III's... does that mean there were never F.III's to fly and fight?
It's weird though... according to the most published data, the Merlin 55M produced about as much hp as a Merlin 61; 1,580 + hp. The Merlin 55 about 1,470 hp. I know that the aircraft with 2-stage supercharging could obviously hit higher speeds since they could fly higher, that 1,580 hp still must do something more than give a Seafire 348 mph even at low altitudes... I mean, that's just slow. If that figure's correct, I think it'd be everyone's best interest to have a Seafire F.III.
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This is a spitfire thread, whats all this talk about 109's for?? :huh :lol
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All your base are belong to Willi Messerschmitt :aok
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MEH.
Joseph Smith wins. And R.J. since he made the initial design.
Seafire III ftw!
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Unfortunate that the German navy's only flat-top was never used. I wonder what could have happened if Germany helped Japan as much as the U.S. and Britain helped each other in their battles like D-Day in the ETO or the attacks on Sicily.
Back to the Seafire, I think the F.III would actually be acceptable because it still performed differently when compared with the other Spitfires with a Merlin 55 since the Merlin 55 is a +16 lb boost engine. It would be like putting the old AH:1 Spitfire V back but with a slightly different setup. Sites say that the F.III was quickly replaced by L.III's... does that mean there were never F.III's to fly and fight?
It's weird though... according to the most published data, the Merlin 55M produced about as much hp as a Merlin 61; 1,580 + hp. The Merlin 55 about 1,470 hp. I know that the aircraft with 2-stage supercharging could obviously hit higher speeds since they could fly higher, that 1,580 hp still must do something more than give a Seafire 348 mph even at low altitudes... I mean, that's just slow. If that figure's correct, I think it'd be everyone's best interest to have a Seafire F.III.
Approx 100 F.III's built, the overwhelming majority were L.III's (over 1,100), so the F.III is hardly representative.
In fact it's as bad as our current IIc as being a representative Seafire.
Some of the F III's were converted to FR.III's.
At low levels the Seafire III is almost as fast as an F IX, but with better acceleration and climb.
Hell, I'd settle for a proper L.IIc in place of the current frankenstein.
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im pulling the 109 back in here, i want the bf109-g10
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True, Kev, there were many more L.III's.
And since they do seem to perform like IX's at low alts and like the V at higher alts, and a little worse, I assume, at yet higher alts, it does seem to add more colour to the Spitfire line.
I still wonder, though, why it seems so slow and it only climbs over 4000 fpm under 6000' with the Merlin 55M, while the Merlin 45M allowed the Spitfire LF.V to climb over 4000 fpm till 8,800'.
Why'd they stick a Merlin 55M if the 45M had much better performance? Is the weight increase just THAT bad? OR are the commonly published results just wrong/misleading?
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slick salesmen
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
True, Kev, there were many more L.III's.
And since they do seem to perform like IX's at low alts and like the V at higher alts, and a little worse, I assume, at yet higher alts, it does seem to add more colour to the Spitfire line.
I still wonder, though, why it seems so slow and it only climbs over 4000 fpm under 6000' with the Merlin 55M, while the Merlin 45M allowed the Spitfire LF.V to climb over 4000 fpm till 8,800'.
Why'd they stick a Merlin 55M if the 45M had much better performance? Is the weight increase just THAT bad? OR are the commonly published results just wrong/misleading?
Maybe based on a clipped L III?
The majority of the pics you can find of L III's show them clipped, this reduces climb by at least 300fpm.
Dan should be able to shed to light on it, over to you Mr Guppy :) .
Correcting my earlier post - L IIc was of course the Merlin 32 not 55M.
i.e. First batch produced with Merlin 46, all remaining with Merlin 32, then all the first batch refitted with the Merlin 32.
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Really? I've only seen two pics of clipped-wing L.III's. Most that I find on any search engine is the 36' 10" wingspan version.
Yes, Guppy, let's have a see.
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well, there r like 24 different models of spits, i bet they had like about another 50 made to like go underwater >.
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Really? I've only seen two pics of clipped-wing L.III's. Most that I find on any search engine is the 36' 10" wingspan version.
Yes, Guppy, let's have a see.
At work at the moment. I'll see what I can do when I get home.
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No worries, Gupp, take your time.
Meanwhile, I'll be coming up with more reasons for Seafire III's to be added.
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EARTH TO EVERYONE!!!
Spits are already dweeb rides...why add more??? :noid
Add some more American A/C such as the 51C or the Super-Strafer 38
#S#
Banshee7
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Originally posted by Banshee7
EARTH TO EVERYONE!!!
Spits are already dweeb rides...why add more??? :noid
Add some more American A/C such as the 51C or the Super-Strafer 38
#S#
Banshee7
There was no super strafer 38 and we have the 51B/C :)
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ID'd as IIcs not IIIs. I think these were the images Kev was referring to.
4 blade props, late IIcs I think
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/ClippedSeafireII.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/clippedSeafireIII.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/clippedSeafire.jpg)
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I'm not much of spitdweeb but I like having good fight in one now and then
my vote: yes :aok
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Originally posted by Banshee7
EARTH TO EVERYONE!!!
Spits are already dweeb rides...why add more??? :noid
Add some more American A/C such as the 51C or the Super-Strafer 38
#S#
Banshee7
There are no dweeb rides, just dweeb pilots. :noid
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Originally posted by Guppy35
There was no super strafer 38 and we have the 51B/C :)
Thanks, he needed that.
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Thanks Bronk.
Banshee,
If you don't like the plane say so. If there the Spitfire's a dweeb ride, pretty much everyone in the game is a dweeb because someone's always going to say there's another plane harder to fly. And why the hell whould everyone want to just go to some other plane that's harder to fly? "cuz we're manly and thus cannot afford to let go of our egos! RAWWR!"
Since you didn't even realize we had a P-51B/C, you shouldn't even be talking. And don't say that P-51C's were the one's with the Malcolm hoods... P-51C's are designated as such because of where they were built.
Also, clearly, just because you see Mk.IX/VIII/XVI flying around doesn't mean all the Spits are 'dweeby' by your defenition. Try flying the Spitfire Ia/V against the horde and tell me how amazingly easy that is. Shows how much you know about the Spitfire; the Seafire III is most closely connected to the Mk.V.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
There was no super strafer 38
It actually was but my understanding is that it was only produces AFTER WW2:(
#S#
Banshee7
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Thanks Bronk.
Banshee,
If you don't like the plane say so. If there the Spitfire's a dweeb ride, pretty much everyone in the game is a dweeb because someone's always going to say there's another plane harder to fly. And why the hell whould everyone want to just go to some other plane that's harder to fly? "cuz we're manly and thus cannot afford to let go of our egos! RAWWR!"
Since you didn't even realize we had a P-51B/C, you shouldn't even be talking. And don't say that P-51C's were the one's with the Malcolm hoods... P-51C's are designated as such because of where they were built.
Also, clearly, just because you see Mk.IX/VIII/XVI flying around doesn't mean all the Spits are 'dweeby' by your defenition. Try flying the Spitfire Ia/V against the horde and tell me how amazingly easy that is. Shows how much you know about the Spitfire; the Seafire III is most closely connected to the Mk.V.
I admit...Spit5s are not dweeby b/c you have fewer cannon rounds... And the Seafire Mk IIc is basically a Spit5 with extra weight (120 more cannon rounds and DT) Spits are a good bird, don't get me wrong, they are what i leanred all my basics in and what i started out in. But everyone needs a change b/c change is good:lol I'm just saying we have what is it now...5 spits and the Seafire...why add more? I think the best idea would be to fix some of the current problems we have THEN add a few more planes.
#S#
Banshee7
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(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alemarinel/Spitfire/SpitFloatplane.jpg)
:confused:
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Originally posted by Guppy35
ID'd as IIcs not IIIs. I think these were the images Kev was referring to.
4 blade props, late IIcs I think
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/ClippedSeafireII.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/clippedSeafireIII.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/clippedSeafire.jpg)
Not neccessarily late IIc's, they started the L IIc with the Merlin 32 in late Nov 42.
The IIc was only produced from Sept - Nov 1942.
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Originally posted by Banshee7
I admit...Spit5s are not dweeby b/c you have fewer cannon rounds... And the Seafire Mk IIc is basically a Spit5 with extra weight (120 more cannon rounds and DT) Spits are a good bird, don't get me wrong, they are what i leanred all my basics in and what i started out in. But everyone needs a change b/c change is good:lol I'm just saying we have what is it now...5 spits and the Seafire...why add more? I think the best idea would be to fix some of the current problems we have THEN add a few more planes.
#S#
Banshee7
Bansee,
I definitely agree with you there. Apologies for my harsh attitude earlier. I'm not saying the the Seafire should be highest priority. If you take a look at my other posts, the Italian planes and an Axis equivalent of a C-47 (maybe a a Ju-52) has always been at the top of my list.
And change is good! Most people start flying the Spit to improve in the game, but others play the game for the Spitfire, like me, while others play for other planes, be it a P-51, F4U or whatever. I've flown about as many F4U sorties as Spitfire sorties myself.
I mean, it's all about flying what you like. I just find it respectable when people fly what they like because they like it, not because it's 'uber'. If I had that 'uber' mentality, I'd be flying the La-7 instead of the Spitfire IX, but many veterans, Canadians, books and movies have inspired me to fly the Spit V/VIII/IX and I wouldn't give up honour for them any day.
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We don't need anymore Spits. We have enough, and the ONLY one worth mentioning is the Mk. I. The rest are for the inept.
But we should get:
I.A.R. 81c
Buffalo
Pee-39
Mig-3
and the PBY.
Then we could get more craft that would be "redundant". To fill the Arenas with Spits, 109's and like American craft, is to create a stale environment.
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Originally posted by Banshee7
It actually was but my understanding is that it was only produces AFTER WW2:(
#S#
Banshee7
You've been talking to Hoarch :) Talking about and potential mockups does not an active fighter make :)
Never happened, never produced.
The 80th Headhunters modified one 38 in the field that there is photo evidence of with 6 50s in the nose, and the cannon removed. That's about as close as you might come to a strafer.
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Masherbrum, again, the Seafire III is not the priority here.
It'd be great if we could have it since it's a more accurate representation of the Seafire line. Whether you like the Spit or not, this is a fact.
I'd agree that adding it now would be stupid, but it should be added some time to show a more accurate picture of the Seafire.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
We don't need anymore Spits. We have enough, and the ONLY one worth mentioning is the Mk. I. The rest are for the inept.
But we should get:
I.A.R. 81c
Buffalo
Pee-39
Mig-3
and the PBY.
Then we could get more craft that would be "redundant". To fill the Arenas with Spits, 109's and like American craft, is to create a stale environment.
Hey! One can dream :)
This one would get me out of the 38:aok
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Spit12B.jpg)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Hey! One can dream :)
This one would get me out of the 38:aok
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Spit12B.jpg)
Droooooooool:aok
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Hey! One can dream :)
This one would get me out of the 38:aok
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Spit12B.jpg)
Well, with you in it, at least that would be a spit I could kill. :p
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Bansee,
I definitely agree with you there. Apologies for my harsh attitude earlier. I'm not saying the the Seafire should be highest priority. If you take a look at my other posts, the Italian planes and an Axis equivalent of a C-47 (maybe a a Ju-52) has always been at the top of my list.
And change is good! Most people start flying the Spit to improve in the game, but others play the game for the Spitfire, like me, while others play for other planes, be it a P-51, F4U or whatever. I've flown about as many F4U sorties as Spitfire sorties myself.
I mean, it's all about flying what you like. I just find it respectable when people fly what they like because they like it, not because it's 'uber'. If I had that 'uber' mentality, I'd be flying the La-7 instead of the Spitfire IX, but many veterans, Canadians, books and movies have inspired me to fly the Spit V/VIII/IX and I wouldn't give up honour for them any day.
Apology accepted sir. I believe it was about 4 months ago that i posted on the wishlist about adding the JU-52 or other transports (vehicles as well) to give us a bigger option on what goon to choose:lol
And on the flying what you like thing....i totally agree. I've been a WW2 geek all my life (studied it, played the games, and talked to real pilots, infantrymen, etc..) and I've always been attracted to the P38, P51, and F4U.
A friend and I came up with a new definition for "dweeb ride".
Dweeb Ride- A plane that you are very good in, or you have the skill to fly it. Reason behind this...whatever plane you fly, if someone gets killed they are ALWAYS gonna whine about it on 200:lol
#S#
Banshee7
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haha, smooth definition .. maybe it should be someone's sig.
And hopefully we'll see that Ju-52 soon enough.
Guppy,
I got a question for you. I asked Karnak the same thing but I guess he didn't see the comment. Since you know so much about Spitfires I was wondering about your opinion of a Spitfire VIII's handling vs. a Spitfire IX's handling, given that they are both at 25% fuel config. with the VIII's wing tanks drained (as well as the extra fuel it carries in the main BTM tank).
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
haha, smooth definition .. maybe it should be someone's sig.
And hopefully we'll see that Ju-52 soon enough.
Guppy,
I got a question for you. I asked Karnak the same thing but I guess he didn't see the comment. Since you know so much about Spitfires I was wondering about your opinion of a Spitfire VIII's handling vs. a Spitfire IX's handling, given that they are both at 25% fuel config. with the VIII's wing tanks drained (as well as the extra fuel it carries in the main BTM tank).
Jeffrey Quill always said the Spit LFVIII was the best of the Merlin Spits.
That being said, a Spit LFVIII vs a Spit LFIX with a tail tail and the same tropical filters is probably going to be a toss up with the VIII being just a bit heavier with the retractable tail wheel and the empty wing fuel tanks.
I don't know that the short span ailerons were ever proven to have made much of a difference. As I understand it, they were done to lessen the flex in the aileron. Clearly the XIV got those, but the XII didn't, the XVI didn't and the late IXs didn't so it couldn't have been anything earth shattering.
For the most part the IX stayed home while the tropicalized and longer range VIII went overseas because of those benefits.
Not sure that answers the question though :)
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Thanks, Guppy, it does help me in my quest of better understanding :) I'm going to need to perform some tests later on to see if the VIII maneuvers around as well. How I miss using the H2H sky-spawn as a testing ground.
Hah, it must make you real giddy to hear that Quill's favourite Spit was the XII.
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Thanks, Guppy, it does help me in my quest of better understanding :) I'm going to need to perform some tests later on to see if the VIII maneuvers around as well. How I miss using the H2H sky-spawn as a testing ground.
Hah, it must make you real giddy to hear that Quill's favourite Spit was the XII.
What Quill said was his favorite Spitfire was DP845 which was the prototype Spit IV later XII. So it's kinda like he said Spit XII. Had a chance to correspond with him way back when and he said it in a letter too, so I've got it in print :)
Spit folks know DP845 mainly from the photos of it taken in October 43 when it had clipped wings, the larger Spinner and tall tail, but it started with full span wings, small tail and small spinner, and a Griffon II. It only looked like an XII for a reasonably short time and when those photos were taken it was running a Griffon VI that was used in the Seafire XV.
Early DP845, no guns, small tail and spinner.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DP845x2.jpg)
May 42 DP845 with 6 cannon mock up. Can you imagine the whines? :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DP845x3.jpg)
DP845 late 42 when she finally made Spit XII prototype shot of the clipped wings and larger spinner. I think this is the DP845 that was Quill's favorite
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DP845x4.jpg)
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Oh yes the whines...
'I r wantz teh uber 6x cannon spitfire!'
I happen to have a pic of that mock-up Spitfire... and when i first saw it I almost gagged... it's ugly with 6 random poles sticking out of its wings..
Question: How many Spitfire XII's were fitted with the combination of the wing fuel tanks AND the Griffon VI?
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What this song needs is ....... more cowbell.
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i would like to see another seafire thats better than the 1 that we already have, just so when im about to take off a carrier, i have a different option of spitty to fly (got tired of seafires, now i fly a6m-5s HELP ME!!!....)
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That's what the Seafire III is all about.
Like mentioned earlier, the Seafire L.III accelerated and climbed about as well as a Spitfire IX, but the Seafire was a tad slower.
If anything, it's slightly superior at low and medium altitudes to the Spitfire Vb we have in-game.
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
Oh yes the whines...
'I r wantz teh uber 6x cannon spitfire!'
I happen to have a pic of that mock-up Spitfire... and when i first saw it I almost gagged... it's ugly with 6 random poles sticking out of its wings..
Question: How many Spitfire XII's were fitted with the combination of the wing fuel tanks AND the Griffon VI?
Not a one. 85 gallons internal. Griffon III or IV, 30 gallon DT was standard. I have the record cards on all of them including DP845. Most had IIIs some of the later production had the IVs. Wings were standard Universal wings like the Spit Vc and clipped. I have a copy of the maint manual on it too. Kind of an obsession that XII :)
Early on guys forgot they had the 30 gallon DT on and still outran 190s on the deck.
later they carried 45 gallon 'torpedo' tanks in late 43 early 44 and 90 gallon slipper tanks in the summer of 44 when they escorted RAF 4 engine bombers in daylight.
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Far be it for me to criticize any man's choice in aircraft, but do we not currently have enough variations on a theme here when it comes to the spitfire? I know there are passions on both the pro and con spitfire debates for various reasons, but I look at it like this. Why add more versions of an aircraft we already have when there are gaping holes in certian nation's plane sets.
Now please I am not here to down play this thread nor am i here to Hijack it for my own topic, I am merely asking the question "would AHII REALLY benifit from the addition of one more spitfire variant?"
To that end I will hush now. If the powers that be desire more spits the so be it. :)
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6 cannons !!! Wow!
Now yer talking!
Daddyack this is a "wish" list not a reality check.
Of course there are way more planes that would fulfil the planeset gaps but until HTC knuckle down and start churning them out every "2 weeks" we can only dream.
Bruv
~S~
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6 hispanos!My God!
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Originally posted by DaddyAck
Far be it for me to criticize any man's choice in aircraft, but do we not currently have enough variations on a theme here when it comes to the spitfire? I know there are passions on both the pro and con spitfire debates for various reasons, but I look at it like this. Why add more versions of an aircraft we already have when there are gaping holes in certian nation's plane sets.
Now please I am not here to down play this thread nor am i here to Hijack it for my own topic, I am merely asking the question "would AHII REALLY benifit from the addition of one more spitfire variant?"
To that end I will hush now. If the powers that be desire more spits the so be it. :)
No worries. You do make sense, and I don't think anyone could find you offensive unless you said something 'spits are dweeby, stop adding them' :) If you read above or on the previous page... not sure exactly where, I stated that the Spitfire XII or Seafire III are not priorities at all. i actually support the Italian planes, Axis transports and VVS fighters to be added as a priority.Not on one post does it say 'the Spits must be added now!' We'll gladly wait.
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Originally posted by SgtPappy
haha, smooth definition .. maybe it should be someone's sig.
Done:aok
#S#
Banshee7
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Originally posted by DaddyAck
Far be it for me to criticize any man's choice in aircraft, but do we not currently have enough variations on a theme here when it comes to the spitfire? I know there are passions on both the pro and con spitfire debates for various reasons, but I look at it like this. Why add more versions of an aircraft we already have when there are gaping holes in certian nation's plane sets.
Now please I am not here to down play this thread nor am i here to Hijack it for my own topic, I am merely asking the question "would AHII REALLY benifit from the addition of one more spitfire variant?"
To that end I will hush now. If the powers that be desire more spits the so be it. :)
I think what most people forget is that the UK didn't have the industrial capability to produce masses of different aircraft.
So they took existing ones and continually updated them, and occassionally produced a new aircraft.
Geoffrey DeHavilland when he designed the Mossie quickly realised that because of shortages a metal skinned aircraft was out of the question, hence the Mossie was made of 'wood'.
So you could equate for example the Seafire IIc, LIIc and LIII to the F4U (all marks), F4F, F6F, FM2 etc etc.
So looking at it that way thats 7-8 U.S. CV birds, and only 1 Seafire (which is the early non representative version)
Ditto for the Spits v P-38's, P-47's, P-51's, doesn't look as bad comparing them that way.
Good thing is I would 'assume' the Spits were built modularly so the wings, tails etc can be interchanged.
In which case they already have all the parts needed to produce any Seafrie or Spit barring the late cut down fuse versions and the extended tips versions.
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Oh, you want more spitties?
The spit 16 was the second most dweebish plane in the game..... and that plane... wasn't good enough for you..... WAS IT??!!:lol
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Originally posted by DaftDog
Waaaaa spitfires Waaaaaa
Fixed
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Which Spitfire Mk. is this Guppy ?
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Spit12B.jpg)
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Spit XIIB - saved it last time Guppy was on about it - would like this added to game eventually - but not as much as the one with 6 cannons lmao.... ;)
Wurzel
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How does it compare to the Spitfire Mk.16 ?
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How does it compare to the Spitfire Mk.16 ?
Read about it here--->http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-XII.html
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fascinating read :aok
F/O Jean P. Maridor (Free French) of 91 Squadron recorded in his Combat Report for 25 May, 1943:
I was about to land when I heard Control say there were several E/A coming in towards Folkestone. I opened up straight out to sea and saw about 12 F.W. 190's at sea level, one mile off-shore, heading straight for Folkestone. I dived head-on at the leading formation with blue 4 just behind me to starboard. There were five E/A in a close box and the remainder were spread out behind them. Flak opened up from Folkestone. All the E/A panicked and jettisoned their bombs, turning towards the French Coast. I selected one E/A and was about to attack when I saw Pilot Officer Round in a better position than I was. I took another E/A on the starboard side and closed to 300 yards without difficulty, giving him a four secs burst from astern without result. I closed to 250, giving another 4 secs burst seeing cannon hits on the fuselage. He began to smoke and I gave him a third burst, seeing further hits. I broke away on seeing some tracer going past my wings from astern and saw the E/A I had attacked go straight into the sea.
I claim one F.W, 190 destroyed.
be nice to see more of this in the MA...
the combat reports sound almost exactly like encounters in AH including the differences in aircraft, gj HTC :aok
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Someone say Spitfire XII? :D
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Someone say Spitfire XII? :D
Need to start a petition or revolution Dan!!!!
Spit XII, old Vc, and Seafire LIIc or LIII (in place of IIc) would complete the Spit lineup, as we are unlikely to get an F.21.
(Can't see any point for a HF VI or HF VII)
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The XII would be a great addition (after the Japanese and Russian fighters and German bomber quotas are complete) because it was the step in between the Merlin and Griffon Spitfire variants. It was the Frankenstein (Yes, I know Guppy :P Don't hurt me) of the bunch and was literally a Griffon with a plane strapped to it.
The Seafire L III would be a good addition because it was the most common version of the Seafire and it was built from 1943 - 45, the longest serving Seafire available.
The Spitfire Vc is my favourite version of the SpitV but it simply was not the most common Mk.V. The MkVb was byfar the most common and hardest working of the bunch. As much as I would like to see it, it will never be added unless EVERY single plane that ever fought in WWII was added.
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Unfortunate that the German navy's only flat-top was never used. I wonder what could have happened if Germany helped Japan as much as the U.S. and Britain helped each other in their battles like D-Day in the ETO or the attacks on Sicily.
Not sure if the word 'unfortunate' is the right choice there ;), interesting maybe! Still, i very much doubt that they would have got their cv past Britain without it becoming a new reef in the North Sea. If the RAF didn't do it then the Royal Navy certainly would.
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The XII would be a great addition (after the Japanese and Russian fighters and German bomber quotas are complete) because it was the step in between the Merlin and Griffon Spitfire variants. It was the Frankenstein (Yes, I know Guppy :P Don't hurt me) of the bunch and was literally a Griffon with a plane strapped to it.
The Seafire L III would be a good addition because it was the most common version of the Seafire and it was built from 1943 - 45, the longest serving Seafire available.
The Spitfire Vc is my favourite version of the SpitV but it simply was not the most common Mk.V. The MkVb was byfar the most common and hardest working of the bunch. As much as I would like to see it, it will never be added unless EVERY single plane that ever fought in WWII was added.
We 'used' to have the late version cropped Vc.
So I don't think it would be hard to re-introduce it at all (just clip it this time :) ).
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We 'used' to have the late version cropped Vc.
So I don't think it would be hard to re-introduce it at all (just clip it this time :) ).
mmmm old MkV mmmmmm
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YES! BRING ON THE SPITFIRES!!! :rock
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I'd also like to see the bigger drop tank option (60/90gall?) for those spits that used them (IX,XIV,XVI) as well as the 30gall slipper.
AFAIK all C-wing and later could carry 2x250lb bombs under the wing (with no loss of performance when dropped) so would like to see that option added too. :)
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There were 30, 45 and 90 gallon slipper tanks. The 30 was the norm. I've seen a few photos of Spits from late 44 with 90 gallon tanks that flew escort to RAF bombers, but it was the exception not the rule. The "C" wing Spit IXs that lugged bombs had a tendency to fold up during the pull out, in particular if a bomb hung up. The E wing was strengthened to deal with this and was the standard wing that had the three hard points.
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not forgetting the 170gall tank :eek: would be good to have 30 or 90 options in the same way as the jug has a choice of droppies :aok
as C wings had the option for 2x250lb I think we should in AH. as I understand it the pony could pretty much only fly straight and level with 2x1000lb fitted and ripped off wings when dropping them occasionally so wasn't often used in this configuration. in AH its the standard pony attack loadout, so it not unreasonable to give us spitfans the (rarely used but possible) option too :)
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Sorry to bump this thread, but I didn't see a reason to start another one as people have posted so much good information here already. :aok
Did we cover having 25lbs of boost on the XVI and 21lbs on the XIV in this thread yet ? I feel that the late war Spitfires are not fully represented to the best of the their ability.
I also agree with adding a few more Spitfire/Seafire variants to fill in the gaps for scenarios.
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It's pretty outrageous that an aircraft was removed from the game. The old SpitV should have remained and let ENY take care of the rest.
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It's pretty outrageous that an aircraft was removed from the game. The old SpitV should have remained and let ENY take care of the rest.
I agree wholeheartedly, same with the G10. :aok
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Perk loadouts would open up so many options.....
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Perk loadouts would open up so many options.....
+1
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an old thread from November gets bumped because we need more late war Spits? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Sarge/Whatever_anim.gif)
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an old thread from November gets bumped because we need more late war Spits? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Sarge/Whatever_anim.gif)
How is a February 1943 Spitfire XII considered a latewar Spit? Sounds midwar to me :)
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I've been liking the K4 lately, and would love to see a G10 added. Maybe the K4 will stick with me for a bit more than other planes. :lol
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How is a February 1943 Spitfire XII considered a latewar Spit? Sounds midwar to me :)
Shhh dot tell him our uber Mk XVI is running on 43 power ratings of the LF Mk IX. Could ;) put em over the edge.
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Shhh dot tell him our uber Mk XVI is running on 43 power ratings of the LF Mk IX. Could ;) put em over the edge.
Where have you been?
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an old thread from November gets bumped because we need more late war Spits? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Sarge/Whatever_anim.gif)
/face palm.
Nothing has changed since November, so more Spitfires are still needed.
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/face palm.
Nothing has changed since November, so more Spitfires are still needed.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3570/3407351028_88de5ea981_o.jpg)
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yes more spit & 109 :aok
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oh come on isnt there like 9 or 10 of these damn things i mean how many more variations do u want?