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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: manurin on January 15, 2008, 03:11:48 AM

Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: manurin on January 15, 2008, 03:11:48 AM
This is a video I found on youtube, not sure if it's p40's or 51's but both bought it!


In Flight Collision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgxFS3uHACE)
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on January 15, 2008, 03:49:35 AM
The collision model horse has been beaten to death so many times already, do a search.

How would you like to die to collision when an enemy passes you from a safe distance from your point of view? Because that's what you're asking essentially.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: manurin on January 15, 2008, 03:58:48 AM
I don't want to re-open a collision polemic, just to share this video I found, period!
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: SD67 on January 15, 2008, 04:02:45 AM
Cool vid.:aok
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Charge on January 15, 2008, 04:20:02 AM
It is not cool to watch people die.

-C+
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: mipoikel on January 15, 2008, 04:24:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
It is not cool to watch people die.

-C+


yep. Interesting yes but not cool.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: SD67 on January 15, 2008, 04:28:00 AM
Fair enough.
:aok
You do realise that is usually exactly what we are seeing when we view countless videos of WWII gun cam footage looking for pointers on ACM and making historic comparison to what we see in the game?
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on January 15, 2008, 05:33:21 AM
I suppose its more for the fact those fighters were probably just nubs training, had it been combat gun cam footage we all probably wouldn't feal so bad.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Rollins on January 15, 2008, 05:51:06 AM
Yeah, if it were guncam footage I'd feel a lot better... do you think before you type? That's horrible, I don't care who it is. This post is terrible, what are you thinking?
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: AquaShrimp on January 15, 2008, 06:36:24 AM
What makes you think the pilots died?
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on January 15, 2008, 07:26:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AquaShrimp
What makes you think the pilots died?


Umm the mushroom cloud rising from the crater their planes created? Unless you mean the guncams - I'm sure that many of those pilots bailed out and survived.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Sharrk on January 15, 2008, 08:32:18 AM
Yea those two guys died, however in the 40's and 50's, film makers used a lot of real WWII footage due to no CGI, with a lot of people actualy dying in the course of their duty.

I think that that bit of footage is actualy also used in
Flying saucers v's Earth or some Sci-Fi flik like that. Saw it on the tely a couple of weeks ago.

Still should make you think of the real dangers those guys faced...

Sharrk...
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: dedalos on January 15, 2008, 08:35:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The collision model horse has been beaten to death so many times already, do a search.

How would you like to die to collision when an enemy passes you from a safe distance from your point of view? Because that's what you're asking essentially.


How do you like being shot by a plane that in your view is no where near having guns on you?
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: mipoikel on January 15, 2008, 09:28:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
How do you like being shot by a plane that in your view is no where near having guns on you?


This happens everyday. You just have to live with it.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: SlapShot on January 15, 2008, 11:37:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
:cry
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: trigger2 on January 15, 2008, 12:14:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rollins
Yeah, if it were guncam footage I'd feel a lot better... do you think before you type? That's horrible, I don't care who it is. This post is terrible, what are you thinking?

So posting a video of people dying in planes is "terrible"?
I appreciate the post, we mourn the loss of the pilots who died, but you can't change it, hundreds, **** thousands of pilots died in WWII, and some, like these, were caught on tape.  Live in the present, not the past, use what's available, which, is this video, and don't try to change the past, it's done.

Don't mean to sound like I don't care that the pilots died, but I'm tired of people saying something like "this post sucks cause people died" when people are dying everywhere, it's done, it's overwith etc...
If you don't want to watch the video's that's your choice, just don't try and influence your opinion here.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Yeager on January 15, 2008, 12:21:01 PM
I dont mind death films,  death happens.  It would be nice if the posters would at least warn people they are about to view death films, even if the deaths happened sixty years ago.

:confused:
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: BaldEagl on January 15, 2008, 12:28:22 PM
I thought it was interesting and, if it were a Hollywood produced video, even cool.

It's one of those rare moments you really don't get a chance to see very often.

Thanks for posting it.

[EDIT]:

Quote
Originally posted by Charge
It is not cool to watch people die.

-C+


The video doesn't actually show people dying.  It shows planes colliding.  

I can't get the resolution high enough to make out the faces of the pilots, therefore, I have no personal nor human attachment to those piloting these planes.  If, in fact, they died in this collision, that's a sad thing for them and for their families and friends.  Again, I have no emotional attachment to them, therefore, to me it's a video of planes colliding.  Nothing more.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Yeager on January 15, 2008, 01:16:55 PM
those are remote controlled planes baldeagl.  No persons were killed making that film :rolleyes:
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: rodak on January 15, 2008, 01:31:05 PM
what collision?   the flying saucers clearly shot them down....:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq4p4gbuDwM
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: rodak on January 15, 2008, 02:18:20 PM
I think I read about that crash being a training accident somewhere in the states.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: RoGenT on January 15, 2008, 03:01:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rodak
I think I read about that crash being a training accident somewhere in the states.


That is what I heard too. I believe it was barely pre-war or during. Know for fact it was training flights for sure
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: dedalos on January 15, 2008, 03:07:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot


Bah, you too old and everything seems to be in slow motion for you.  No wonder you don't see it :p
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: dedalos on January 15, 2008, 03:09:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
This happens everyday. You just have to live with it.


I know, but how are the two different.  Not to mention that you do collide when you clearly have avoided the other guy.  Just saying, just because someone says it does not happen or has not seen it, it does not make it true :confused:
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: rodak on January 15, 2008, 04:15:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mipoikel
This happens everyday. You just have to live with it.



Your right mipoikel..   Just seen a report about ufo's over texas today.  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq4p4gbuDwM
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Ghastly on January 15, 2008, 04:26:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
How do you like being shot by a plane that in your view is no where near having guns on you?

I know, but how are the two different.  Not to mention that you do collide when you clearly have avoided the other guy.  Just saying, just because someone says it does not happen or has not seen it, it does not make it true :confused:


Dedalos, why has killshooter been proven to be necessary in every instance it's ever been turned off in every sim I've ever flown, excluding short term invitation only events?

How much skill does it take to manage to get guns on  - versus - How much skill does it take to manage to fly a collision intercept with another aircraft?

You have 3 choices (until and unless you can rearrange the natural laws such as speed of light).

No collision unless both FE's register it.  Due to netlag, this basically turn's all collisions off.  Tell me, how do you model damage when the firing aircraft is INSIDE OF the target?  It would be HOTARD X 10 - why EVER avoid hitting a plane if you are almost never going to register a collision even if you fly right through your target?

Any collision on either FE kills both.  It would be HOTARD X 10 - why EVER avoid hitting a plane if you can take him down in a collision if you miss with your bullets? Might as well turn killshooter off too...

As it is now. Frankly, I'll take as it is now!  The ace pilot kills himself, I continue  on with my mission.   When I die, I know I - not someone else, but I - screwed up.

Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Rollins on January 16, 2008, 04:52:01 PM
Trigger, you're right.  You bring the videos of the hajis sawing off people's heads and I'll bring the popcorn.  Butter?  Salt?
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: BiGBMAW on January 16, 2008, 07:39:32 PM
yes..that video is nasty....

It really appears that the pilot who got rammed bailed out...to low for deployments..bit it really appears he separated from fuselage.


btw...that makes my belly turn....Maybe for people who have never actually flown light planes before don't feel the same way...but seeing death  accidents is no fun...
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: dedalos on January 16, 2008, 07:52:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghastly
Dedalos, why has killshooter been proven to be necessary in every instance it's ever been turned off in every sim I've ever flown, excluding short term invitation only events?

How much skill does it take to manage to get guns on  - versus - How much skill does it take to manage to fly a collision intercept with another aircraft?

You have 3 choices (until and unless you can rearrange the natural laws such as speed of light).

No collision unless both FE's register it.  Due to netlag, this basically turn's all collisions off.  Tell me, how do you model damage when the firing aircraft is INSIDE OF the target?  It would be HOTARD X 10 - why EVER avoid hitting a plane if you are almost never going to register a collision even if you fly right through your target?

Any collision on either FE kills both.  It would be HOTARD X 10 - why EVER avoid hitting a plane if you can take him down in a collision if you miss with your bullets? Might as well turn killshooter off too...

As it is now. Frankly, I'll take as it is now!  The ace pilot kills himself, I continue  on with my mission.   When I die, I know I - not someone else, but I - screwed up.



I am not sure what what I said has to do with what you are describing.  I said that sometimes you collide even when you clearly avoided the collision.  Skill plays no roll in that since you avoided it right?   Net lag does exist but it is not the cause of all evil.  It is however a very convenient evil since one can blame it for everything and people just accept it.  They accept it to the point were they think they are experts in it.  So, without changing the laws of physics or the speed of light, I can tell you that there is a lot more than net lag.  Net lag of 40ms or less is the list of the problem here.  Every one assumes the only lag is on the net and the servers are running at 0 time :lol  I am just saying that blame it the net is a very convenient way to get out of fixing anything.  I know I am not that good that 40ms or 100ms would make a difference.  I don't think I can move the stick that fast, lol.  When I DA someone, they clearly pass me, I look behind me and see him and then the pings start I know that was not 40ms net lag.  Now, what kill shooter and the rest have to do with any of this is beyond me.

I anycase, my problems with collisions are the bogus damage model and the fact that sometimes you collide even after you did avoid it.  Thats all.  I dont want it off. I want it fixed.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Bronk on January 16, 2008, 07:57:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
I am not sure what what I said has to do with what you are describing.  I said that sometimes you collide even when you clearly avoided the collision.  


I anycase, my problems with collisions are the bogus damage model and the fact that sometimes you collide even after you did avoid it.  Thats all.  I dont want it off. I want it fixed.


Film?
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: dedalos on January 16, 2008, 08:53:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Film?


Ohhh, thats right, I forgot.  If I was not filming it did not happen.  I had one but net lag ate it :rofl

I ll start filming though.  not sure what good it would do
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Bronk on January 17, 2008, 04:42:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Ohhh, thats right, I forgot.  If I was not filming it did not happen.  I had one but net lag ate it :rofl

I ll start filming though.  not sure what good it would do


Well if happens enough to make you whine about it. You should have no problem producing a film of it in short order.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: SlapShot on January 17, 2008, 08:00:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
I said that sometimes you collide even when you clearly avoided the collision.  


Unpossible.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: Ghastly on January 17, 2008, 08:59:35 AM
I agree that sometimes you collide when you didn't THINK you were going to - a position update that moved his aircraft abruptly into yours, and in one instance where I collided and said "NO (bleeping) way!" - it was another aircraft that I never even saw approaching from off-tail, and not the guy I was focusing on as we were in the rolling scissors and whom I was positive I avoided - and which was the only guy I thought was near me.

If it registers a collision for you when you didn't strike an aircraft on your own FE, then I agree - something needs fixed.

And regarding the collision modeling, I can't really speak to that.  Are you saying that in your opinion you think that too many times when a player collides with another player he suffers too little damage?  Or too much?   I rarely collide, so I can't really provide much feedback to that - I don't have enough incidents to draw a conclusion from.

(And when I do collide, 9 times out of 10 it's because I'm struggling for a difficult shot opportunity and I realize I've blown it big-time before it even happens  - but it's now too late to do much about it - and pretty much what happens is exactly what I would expect. I die or have too little plane left to fly, and have to bail).

The point about Killshooter is simply meant to draw a parallel as to why anything that eliminated or seriously reduced the likelihood or "seriousness" of a collision would make for a very unenjoyable flight sim - for exactly the same reason that we need Killshooter.   Many players wouldn't mind a trade, if it meant taking someone else down with them.

Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: dedalos on January 17, 2008, 09:13:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Unpossible.


Ever heard of a software bug?
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: dedalos on January 17, 2008, 09:15:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Well if happens enough to make you whine about it. You should have no problem producing a film of it in short order.


It does not happen that often.  I don't collide that often.  I said some times.  Why is pointing out something that is wrong a whine?  I guess every thing is a whine unless the post is something like this: "Everything is great.  Don't change a thing"

:aok
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: trigger2 on January 17, 2008, 09:51:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rollins
Trigger, you're right.  You bring the videos of the hajis sawing off people's heads and I'll bring the popcorn.  Butter?  Salt?


Allright, where we gonna meet? :aok
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: B@tfinkV on January 17, 2008, 09:59:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rodak
what collision?   the flying saucers clearly shot them down....:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq4p4gbuDwM



:rofl very good!
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: SlapShot on January 17, 2008, 11:22:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Ever heard of a software bug?


Unpossible.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: AquaShrimp on January 17, 2008, 11:26:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BiGBMAW
yes..that video is nasty....

It really appears that the pilot who got rammed bailed out...to low for deployments..bit it really appears he separated from fuselage.


btw...that makes my belly turn....Maybe for people who have never actually flown light planes before don't feel the same way...but seeing death  accidents is no fun...


Nobody bailed out, quit being such a drama queen.
Title: Collision model in real life
Post by: dedalos on January 17, 2008, 11:34:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Unpossible.


I don't like you!  I like Hub better! :mad: