Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Hazard69 on January 15, 2008, 08:03:41 AM
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Actually, this is more of a question than a wish. In a pony or a F6F or a Jug, or any bird with more than 2 50cals, each pair of guns can be set at a different convergence. Why then is it that all 4 50cals on a P38 must be set at the same convergence? Nitpicking I know, but I am curious. :confused:
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Because they are all within about a square foot and there'd be no point?
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Originally posted by Hazard69
Why then is it that all 4 50cals on a P38 must be set at the same convergence? Nitpicking I know, but I am curious. :confused:
First of all, the guns on the P-38 are centerline guns and don't need to have their convergence set.
ack-ack
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yes they do the up and down convergence which hapens to be like none
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Originally posted by splitatom
yes they do the up and down convergence which hapens to be like none
No, the convergence does not need to be set on the P-38. Whether or not one does it is personal preference but with center mounted guns, convergence isn't an issue as all the rounds will hit in a concentrated area. But then what do I know? I mean, I've only been flying the P-38 in these online sims for probably longer than you've been alive.
What you're referring to is "bullet drop" which can be compensated for by aiming slightly above your target.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
No, the convergence does not need to be set on the P-38. Whether or not one does it is personal preference but with center mounted guns, convergence isn't an issue as all the rounds with hit in a concentrated area. But then what do I know? I mean, I've only been flying the P-38 in these online sims for probably longer than you've been alive.
ack-ack
....but splitatom is a kid, so he knows EVERYTHING!!!
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The main reason I have my guns set out farther is that if I'm in a turn fight I don't have to pull quite as much lead to land hits on target.
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Originally posted by clerick
The main reason I have my guns set out farther is that if I'm in a turn fight I don't have to pull quite as much lead to land hits on target.
Does that make a noticeable difference for you?
donkey
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The 38 guns in aces high do have a real issue (and undoubtably any other plane with high refire rate nose guns like the .303's in the mossie):
The guns do not all fire when the trigger is 'tapped'.
You can, 'tap' the trigger and get it to shoot just ONE bullet (aka 1 gun) rather than lose 4 bullets (aka all 4 guns received the 'fire' command).
Why is this a problem?
The nose gun package loses a LOT of effectiveness.. a lot of its 'punch'.
How?
Imagine a 38 doing a non-6 o'clock pass at an enemy aircraft.
In fact, make it even simpler..imagine the 38 is flying straight and level and an enemy aircraft will fly right across its nose from left to right.
To use simple numbers:
Enemy aircraft speed: 200mph (200 miles=321,868 meters per hour = 89.40 meters per second.. for this we'll use 90 meters per second to use easy numbers)
M2 .50 cal ROF: 600 rnds per minute per gun (10rnds per second) *** I KNOW this number may be higher or a bit lower for WW2 38 guns but its in the ballpark and I want to have a nice simple number like '10' in here.***
The enemy AC... say an ME 109 has a length of 9 meters engine to tail (we'll use 10 just for easy numbers)
So..
We have an enemy airplane 10 meters in long, flying at 90 meters per second across a plane that will be firing 10 rounds per second per gun.
That means the plane crosses the bullet stream in 0.11 seconds.
So in this case, the P38 should hit the enemy AC with at least 1 bullet per gun for a total of 4.
But...
in AH the gun does not receive a 'fire all 4 guns' command when you press that trigger. Only a 'fire gun 1 then gun2 then gun 3 then gun4' depending on how long you have your finger pressing the fire button.
I know this is a bit stupid but when the guns hit the enemy AC in the current AH, the enemy plane is likely to get hit by just 2 bullets rather than 4. Whereas if the game had the command for all 4 guns to fire, it'd be hit by 3 or 4 (there is an infinitesimal delay between gun firing in 'IRL' 38's .. Widewing explained the firing Selenoid thing a long time ago).
The example above is rather extreme and absurd to think that 4 bullets would make a difference from 2 in that situation. It is there to merely illustrate the problem.
In a 'real' scenario in the game that shows how much of a 'punch' is lost from this can be seen when you attack bombers in high speed passes and you try to aim for the wing roots or engines. Or when you are doing a high-speed pass from below/above and from a 3o-c / 9o-c position (I call it a 'slash-pass').
Your nose mounted plane comes in FAST at a target that is probably slow, the time on 'target' for the bullets to hit is not that much. Firing a 1 second burst from one side of the plane to the other side as you fly by at high speed at the very best.
In that 1 second... you should've been hitting that plane with 40 bullets.
in AH though.. at best you're firing off 26'ish due to the guns not receiving the fire-all-guns-of-this-type command (aka .50 cals in 38 and .303's in the mossie).
Sincerely,
Your resident P-38 whinefuhrer.
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Originally posted by splitatom
yes they do the up and down convergence which hapens to be like none
Like, you are so, like wrong. Stop posting.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Like, you are so, like wrong. Stop posting.
weather you like the guy or not doesn't change the fact that he's absolutly right.
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That's an adjustment for elevation, but not for convergence. They are not the same.
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Originally posted by zmeg
weather you like the guy or not doesn't change the fact that he's absolutly right.
Whether or not Karaya likes splitatom is not the issue or should be brought into the discussion. Whether or not splitatom is correct is and should be the only issue and he is incorrect.
Adjustments to elevation can be done by simply aiming slightly above your target.
ack-ack
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Wow, looks like I stirred up something.....:D:eek: :lol
I agree, setting the convergence will accommodate for bullet drop, but thats negligible in case of a 50cal anyway (at least within reasonable kill ranges). Puling lead is always going to be required (irrespective of convergence) and will depend on the amount of Gs you're pulling.
Tac's explanation just answered one of my oldest mysteries, why I could shoot more effectively in a P51B as compared to my P38 (firing 50cals only here).
All I wanted to know, is that why P38s have all four guns at one convergence, while something like the B25/A20 gets a convergence option?
BTW, Ack-Ack, what convergence do you have your guns set to? All the way out to 650?
:) :)
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Originally posted by Hazard69
BTW, Ack-Ack, what convergence do you have your guns set to? All the way out to 650?
:) :)
Whatever is the default setting. I've never adjusted it as there is no need to in the P-38.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Whatever is the default setting. I've never adjusted it as there is no need to in the P-38.
ack-ack
What it is default for a 38 anyways?
donkey
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Originally posted by zmeg
weather you like the guy or not doesn't change the fact that he's absolutly right.
Right about what? It's "whether" btw. The fact that he doesn't spend time in the DA/TA with Murdr (who is a Trainer) is no fault but his own.
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
What it is default for a 38 anyways?
donkey
I believe 650 yards for both the .50 calibers and 20mm cannon but not 100% sure.
ack-ack
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their all in the nose anyways whats setting the range going to do?
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
No, the convergence does not need to be set on the P-38. Whether or not one does it is personal preference but with center mounted guns, convergence isn't an issue as all the rounds will hit in a concentrated area. But then what do I know? I mean, I've only been flying the P-38 in these online sims for probably longer than you've been alive.
What you're referring to is "bullet drop" which can be compensated for by aiming slightly above your target.
ack-ack
how long have you been flying online sims
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Originally posted by splitatom
how long have you been flying online sims
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Ack-Ack my guess is hmmmm 16 to 18 years you have been flying online sims? Yes no maybe so?
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Originally posted by splitatom
how long have you been flying online sims
Longer than you.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Longer than you.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
no du smart dick
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Originally posted by splitatom
no du smart dick
Call the moderator! Quick! Quick!
:lol
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Originally posted by splitatom
how long have you been flying online sims
Hmmm...if you're 15 years or younger, longer than you've been alive.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Hmmm...if you're 15 years or younger, longer than you've been alive.
ack-ack
4 teh win!!!!!
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack:
Hmmm...if you're 15 years or younger, longer than you've been alive.
ack-ack
LOLOLOL!:D:lol :rofl
Owned!:aok