Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: RoGenT on January 17, 2008, 06:52:48 PM
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I just bought the X52 and so far loving it. Still not used to the throttle and all the buttons; keep cutting throttle after I already overshot lol. I'm having problems getting mode 2 set up, any suggestions?
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LOL, i probably only use 10% of what it is capable of doing. :D
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Are you using the SST or the ingame programming? You might also check the drivers that ship with the stick- I downloaded updated drivers from Saitek's website, which changed some things in AH, like the clutch button and slider.
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Originally posted by whiteman
LOL, i probably only use 10% of what it is capable of doing. :D
Same here. Dont even know if the mouse button thing on the throttle is compatable with AH
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It is, assuming you have all the drivers and what not installed for the mouse emulation. AH just thinks it's another USB mouse. Works well for mouselook.
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It's a great stick. Controlling for nose bounce though is still my major complaint. Have tried everything, and it is still a biotch!!!!!!!!!!!! Without deadband and damping set WAY high I am pretty useless with this stick. (I have tried every curve known to man for rudder and pitch, to no avail.)
Nothing, but nothing, performs like a MSFFPro.
:cry
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Originally posted by eh
It's a great stick. Controlling for nose bounce though is still my major complaint. Have tried everything, and it is still a biotch!!!!!!!!!!!! Without deadband and damping set WAY high I am pretty useless with this stick. (I have tried every curve known to man for rudder and pitch, to no avail.)
Nothing, but nothing, performs like a MSFFPro.
:cry
You can still buy them online.
http://www.gogamer.com/Microsoft-Sidewinder-Force-Feedback-2-Joystick-Joysticks_stcVVproductId27947627VVcatId444857VVviewprod.htm
I use the MS SW FF2 and I love the stick, but there have been no new drivers released for it since 2001. The old drivers that I can find wont install on XP or Vista, so you have to go with the windows default drivers.
My stick has a bad trigger and it was giving me trouble with the Force Feedback without having the right drivers. So I'm debating if I want to order a new one or buy the X52.
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Originally posted by Meatwad
Same here. Dont even know if the mouse button thing on the throttle is compatable with AH
It does but it is hard to use
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Wife walked in the door last weekend from a trip to the second hand stores.
Found you a new joystick she says. I unwrap the cord from a MS Sidewinder ForceFeedback stick and go, what did you pay for this?
2$ was it too much? No, dear you did just fine (hugs & kisses)
Its the Sidewinder FF Pro, with the rotary throttle dial, gameport connection not USB. Appears to be a good shape.
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I have an old sidewinder from a lot of years ago. Now if I can only find the power cord.
The biggest problem with the X52 is the SST software. Ive had all kinds of problems mapping any command thats been programmed with 2 key strokes. Some work, some dont, some work in one profile but not another. If you have this problem try remapping in AH to one keystroke and then map into SST.
The views have to be mapped in AH. I cant map AH views in SST on Hat #1. It took me months to work out this Saitek stuff but now I can say I like it OK.
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When I got my Saitek X52 (Non PRO) I got it compatible with AH in less than an hour. Never bothered with the SST Programming Software.
Works nice, love the slider! (Use it as the RPM control.)
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It's a great stick. Controlling for nose bounce though is still my major complaint. Have tried everything, and it is still a biotch!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not a great stick, it's an OK at best stick, and for exactly the reason you mention. A large part of the reason for this is that the stick has a design flaw. Tension on the stick is provided by a springloaded ring that is pressed into a socket on the base, such that moving the stick slides the ring against the socket and compresses the spring.
This is cheap, and easy to manufacture, but an utterly braindead way to spring a stick meant for flying - because of how it's sprung, it takes the MOST force to start to move the stick away from center with a decreasing force to move it further along it's travel, rather than what should be the case, which is that it takes the LEAST amount of force to nudge it from center with an increase in force required as you travel further from center. Hence, you can't help but overcorrect at center, where you need to be most precise.
I lubed mine with a plastic safe teflon-based lube purchased from Radio Shack, and it was much better, but I'm picky, and I still wasn't really happy. When my final MSFF died (the hat switch buttons on it would last me only about 6 months, and because the assembly wears down, replacing them doesn't really help) I finally went with a CH Fighterstick.
The CH is not perfect, but it's been the best thing I've been able to find since the MSFF Pro, which was second only to the Logitech Wingman Force (when Logitech actually made something worth buying.)
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Originally posted by Meatwad
Same here. Dont even know if the mouse button thing on the throttle is compatable with AH
I use to have it mapped but then when I moved from Italy to NC and built a new computer and did a clean install of everything it didn't work again.
I use it in Mode 1 on the joystick and program in AH itself.... that is all I need are the three modes in AH. Works for me!:D
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Question: are any of the CH sticks twisty for rudder? Have heard you have to use pedals for all of them.
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No, there's no twisty function for CH. I think they'd put Saitek out of business if they offered one.
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I was playing AH for about two weeks with the X52 joystick with out any problems until then last night. I started getting nose bounce and tower bounce, after about three hours and accidentally deleting my joystick profile I found by using the calibrating axis in AH for the analog inputs it solved the problem.
Hope this helps
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With the X52 is the difference between the pro and the normal one worth the difference in price for AH? Do you actually use the extra features?
Also if you get it and don't like it, can you use the throttle control separate with another stick? Does the throttle and joystick use separate USB connectors or are they built together?
My SW FF2 is on the raggedy edge and I know I need to do something soon as I think it has limited life span left.
I'm still debating if I want to buy the x52 or stick with the tried and tested SW FF2 and pick one up online. Something about the looks of that spring set up bugs me with the X52.
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Mine i set up so the only think I use the keyboard for is landing gear, kneepad and typing ;)
It's great :)
I use both the ingame programing as well as the beta
SST programining. Gets real interesing using three radio vox channels using mode 2 :)
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Something about the looks of that spring set up bugs me with the X52.
It should - it turns what would otherwise be a pretty decent stick into a PoS when it comes to combat sim flying (IMO, ymmv.)
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A couple of zip ties and some careful scaling help, but yeah, you're tweaking a brand new setup, which shouldn't be necessary.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
It should - it turns what would otherwise be a pretty decent stick into a PoS when it comes to combat sim flying (IMO, ymmv.)
Yea that's what I'm kind of scared of. The stick and all the options look great, but then they screw the whole thing up with some lame "spring" set up for resistance.
I had a Satek Cyborg stick before I bought my SW FF and it broke with in a few weeks of playing Mechwarriors 2 back in the day. So I've always been skeptical of Satek since then. Granted the one I had was a fairly cheap stick.
Can anyone answer if the throttle can be used separately if I don't like the stick? Could I pair up that throttle with say a SW FF2?
In reality I wish there was a really good dual throttle set up so you could take advantage of using both engines in a p38,mossy or 110.
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Originally posted by crockett
In reality I wish there was a really good dual throttle set up so you could take advantage of using both engines in a p38,mossy or 110.
There are. I think the CH Yoke has four throttles. :D There are a few people here who have multiple throttles; they say there isn't any real gain.
You could always map rudder pedals to two throttles if you got really creative...
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Thanks, crockett
Unfortunately they don't ship to Canada :(
I will try to find someone who does. If I can't get one, I will set up an old one and use my Saitek gamepad for views, or use track IR with it (kermit's solution). Both of my old MS sticks have the right hatswitch view porked, and one of them also has a trigger that doesn't work all the time. Even then, they are both superior to this PoS.
Ii understand the X45 is better as far as feel goes, but the rocker switch rudder on the throttle doesn't appeal much.
Gosth ... SHE'S A KEEPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :aok
BTW: the X52 is so EASY to get up and running in AH. You don't even need the SST software... doing it all in game works the best, and there are so many buttons that you really don't need all that Mode 1 2 or 3 stuff. Still, that nosebounce is wicked.
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Originally posted by eh
but the rocker switch rudder on the throttle doesn't appeal much
Better than my X52 with the one-way potentiometer in the rudder. :lol
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Crocket, the connector is proprietary, and connects only to the X52, so the answer is yes and no...
Yes in that you can use the throttle and just shove the stick behind the desk and ignore it and use a different stick, but no in that you can't connect it to the computer directly, you have to attach the X52 stick.
I did just that for about a year - used the throttle from my Saitek, my MSFF2, with Verio Simpeds wired to MSFF2 rudder Axis.
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Ok toss in the X52 pro and lets see what everyone (other the CH guy's) have to say :)
For my money the Pro offers a leap in performance by design that the X52 guy's might find hard to relate to. And yes latched is the only way to go :)
MGD
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i like what i see from Saitek website but whats the big diffrence in the X52 and the X52 Pro?
right now i use the Aviator. nice stick and all but want to get back to my Throttle.
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Aside from a few modest design mods (mostly superficial) and the additional functionality possible with the throttle display (which I totally have no use for), the most significant change was supposed to be a different and improved type of contacts that would make the Pro more durable.
Having gone thru seven (yes I said 7), X52's in just over two years, I purchased the Pro hoping the promised improvement would pan out. It didn't. Three months of use and it's sitting (with a couple of the older X52's) waiting for me to ship it back to Saitek for replacement. I've had one actually replaced by Saitek. It's the one I'm using now and it's porked as well.
Aside from my very first X52 (which went 10 months), I have yet for ANY other X52 last longer than 3 months (and ofetn much less) before becoming unplayable.
Under regular circumstances I would never buy from such a company after the third defective product. However, I'm caught by circumstances in that when it works, I love using the stick. I can't use CH because I am physicall unable to use rudder pedals, so need a twisty stick. And finally, I haven't found any other manufacture's product that works better AND that I enjoy using.
I simply have to get off the dime and start rotating my stock of X52's back to Saitek for replacement, unless someone has a better suggestion.
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The simple advantage with the Pro vs the run of the mill X52 is the metal collar at the base of the stick. The X52 has a plastic collar resting on a plastic ring. This caused a bunch of friction and thus jerky movement when the stick was moved. The Pro eliminated this x2 with the addition of a metal on plastic connection for smooth action & allowing greater spring strength for return to center feel by adding a second spring.
MGD
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how long has the pro lasted you????
anyone else having this issue with their X52. i dont want to spend 130-180 dollars on a stick and throttle only to have it go out in 3 months.
and no i dont like the CH products
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I admitt I (well my wife) bought me the Pro from the Saitek site when they first started offering it @ $250.00. I had the following problems.
(1) the first one had a bad mode switch.
(2) the second had a bad hat switch
(3) the third had a bad led (later corrected with a software update)
I kept the third return simply for the overall feel the stick gave me. The software fix was a bonus. So far so good with this one for about seven month's now.
MGD
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I whish they would put a mini track ball on the throttle....
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Originally posted by Imoutfishing
I admitt I (well my wife) bought me the Pro from the Saitek site when they first started offering it @ $250.00. I had the following problems.
(1) the first one had a bad mode switch.
(2) the second had a bad hat switch
(3) the third had a bad led (later corrected with a software update)
I kept the third return simply for the overall feel the stick gave me. The software fix was a bonus. So far so good with this one for about seven month's now.
MGD
do they take them back no questions asked???
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FWIW I gave up on the X52 twisty after three patient weeks of practice, and scrounged a set of used Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals from an ex-gamer up the street. Nose bounce is pretty much gone, but wow, what a marketing strategy! Without the pedals, which add substantially to the cost, the stick isn't very good. It's better going for a CH rig from the start.
If sloehand is right, this X52 will be gone in about 6 months with the heavy use it will get from me now. At that time, I will try a CH stick together with the throttle and rudder pedals that I already have. And I will gradually switch over to CH as the Saitek pedals and throttle die off.
Now... any tips on deadzones, and scaling for the Saitek pedals? Right now I am using default scaling in Aces High, and a deadzone of one in the Windows setup.
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I've never had any issues with mine. I'd gone through an MS sidewinder and 2 logicraps within a year before I got the X52.
I gave it a thorough caning in both AH and X-plane for a year as a twisty before I got the pedals. The only thing I've noticed is the matt grip finish is wearing off on the throttle and shiny black plastic is showing through. I've never noticed any nose or tower bounce nor have I had any centring issues. My 20 month old daughter loves them too, if they can endure her affections I'm pretty sure they'll last a while yet. :lol
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Don't want to hijack this thread but I have had an X52 for 2 years and never had a problem. :noid
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Here's a random question; anybody know how to get the gunk off the adjustment knobs of both the X52 and the EVO? I've got one X52 and two EVOs...all of the metal knobs get covered in greenish goo after a while, even when just sitting unused. It's like the air is enough to corrode them.
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That sounds like oxidation. I generally give my stuff a regular clean as a matter of course particularly since we live in a high salinity area being so close to the ocean. I just use a light spray 3 in 1 silicone spray lubricant on a cloth and just gently wipe the whole set down paying particular attention to the high use areas that tend to attract residue.
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Heh...I dunno about salinity, but I see the ocean out my window and have carrier jets roaring over my head half the month. ;) My silicone can's empty...need me another.
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thanks for all the input guys Salute
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I've had the Saitek Cyborg Evo for over 2 years now. Before this I had a cheap Logitech thing which had no rudder, and only 2 buttons.
I've found the Evo to be a great stick, but does anyone have any tips on how to get the best use out of it? (I don't use the 6 buttons on its base at all yet).
Also, could someone please tell me what the criteria are for AH to take a plane off autopilot (by the movement of the stick)? I've had some problems that when I reduce the deadband, the stick will appear to move a tiny bit and the plane eventually comes off autopilot/auto takeoff.
Yossarian
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Originally posted by Yossarian
I've had the Saitek Cyborg Evo for over 2 years now. Before this I had a cheap Logitech thing which had no rudder, and only 2 buttons.
I've found the Evo to be a great stick, but does anyone have any tips on how to get the best use out of it? (I don't use the 6 buttons on its base at all yet).
Also, could someone please tell me what the criteria are for AH to take a plane off autopilot (by the movement of the stick)? I've had some problems that when I reduce the deadband, the stick will appear to move a tiny bit and the plane eventually comes off autopilot/auto takeoff.
Yossarian
That's your stick degrading in quality.
That 'movement' that the calibration menu shows is the stick spiking.
Short of changing the values in the JSM file for your stick (do a forum search here for 'Stick Dampening') there's not a lot you can do.
The same thing happened to my Evo.
Increasing dead-band is a band-aid fix and will make it harder for you dogfight.
If you got 2 years out of your EVO you're doing well, they're not made to last.
They're great when they're new but they degrade quite quickly.
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Ok, thanks for the advice
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Originally posted by eh
It's a great stick. Controlling for nose bounce though is still my major complaint. Have tried everything, and it is still a biotch!!!!!!!!!!!! Without deadband and damping set WAY high I am pretty useless with this stick. (I have tried every curve known to man for rudder and pitch, to no avail.)
Nothing, but nothing, performs like a MSFFPro.
:cry
I have the x52 pro and the sidewinder ff. I think I fly better with the sidewinder to tell you the truth. However, it has a nasty habbit of blinking right. I assume because of the old drivers. I do like the x52 pro though. I like the way you can set the many buttons and controls.
As for the bouncing, I found that not loading the SST program really helps. I had mine perfect and then loaded the SST and wham the bouncing started. So I figure if you keep the SST set up a profile for AH. At least I think that will help. There's also a calibration program on the Saitek website that should help. As of right now I have it working pretty darn good. I have some deadzones set up at desk top and at the AH level.
I keep the FF for backup and it's a great backup stick!