Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LePaul on January 17, 2008, 10:46:18 PM
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Girlfriend just got prescribed Adderall for adult attention deficit disorder. She's been very irritable and all those other loss of focus/concentration things now for quite some time.
The med is Adderall and upon reading all the warnings and side effects, Im wondering if this is going to make things better or worse!
Any of you folks take this or have family that does?
What kinda roller coaster should I expect! :)
Seriously hoping for the best tho, things have been pretty strained for us lately.
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People with ADD diagnosis:
1. Can't get pilot certificate
2. Can't purchase a gun (H.R. 2640)
3. Will pay a large premium for life insurance
It's to be avoided.
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She's not a pilot
Yay, she can't shoot me
I dont think she's thought that far ahead...she hasnt even started a retirement account
She's been really short tempered over the past few weeks. She gets upset she hasn't gotten much done around the house. Then she gets upset the kids aren't helping, only to realize she still hasnt done the things started earlier. Its not uncommon to find 2 or 3 "to do" lists around the house.
On top of that, she has some tough work stresses and an ex-husband who treats her poorly. Sadly, I bear the brunt of these bad moods a lot lately.
If this stuff allows her to regain her focus and calm her mood, great. But the list of side effects was long, not to mention they can drug test at anytime and count her meds. Pretty intense medication.
While I dont think it will exactly cure the woes of our relationship, anything that helps her out, I am all for.
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From personal experience: Chicks on meds are best lays, and worst GFs....
Made a rule long ago, never to date crazies.
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The crazier the chick, the better the sex.- Man Law #6
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I have had ADD since I was a kid. I have never been diagnosed and I don't need to be listed as a "mental health patient". I learned at a young age that I was "inattentive" as termed by teachers and I refocused myself as a result of not wanting to be left behind the classroom. Now I know what I need to do each day and it's tough but I'll be da**ed if someone is going to put me on drugs to make me focus.
However we had to put our oldest son on one called Focalin and it has been like a light switch getting flipped for him in school and sports that aren't fast paced like baseball.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56311
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When we had ADD as kids in math class Mr. Henderson would walk up behind us and slap you as hard as he could in the middle of the back.
No more ADD.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
People with ADD diagnosis:
1. Can't get pilot certificate
2. Can't purchase a gun (H.R. 2640)
3. Will pay a large premium for life insurance
It's to be avoided.
Why #2 and #3?
Is ADD life threatening?
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My brother in law has adult ADD, his meds have made a big improvement in his life, no overt down side that I can see from the outside. Note most add drugs are speeders, you might see if she can use caffeine to help the situation.
Regards,
Kevin
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Not directly. Folks with ADD are more likely to wig out that others, if they happen to suddenly stop taking their medication even more so. You do NOT want someone like that to be close to a firearm.
People with ADD also tend to have a resentment of authority. Now take one medication deprived sufferer of ADD, add one firearm and a sprinkling of police and you have instant insurance payout potential.
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Originally posted by gunnss
My brother in law has adult ADD, his meds have made a big improvement in his life, no overt down side that I can see from the outside. Note most add drugs are speeders, you might see if she can use caffeine to help the situation.
Regards,
Kevin
Actually they say she cant have soda/caffeine anymore with this, it would speed her up too much. (See side effects, etc)
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You know what? I kinda see A.D.D. as just a lame excuse. It doesn't really exist.
It was made-up by some Psych major to win a nobel prize, or make tons of dough off of Riddilin.
Because I know plenty of folks, aged 50+, who might have had some trouble in school, but...public schools' then did not treat you with 'kid gloves' like they do today. If you did not do your homework, they did not say you needed medication, and had to be given less work...They kept you after school in detention, or made you go to study hall, or called your parents', and the dean would take his paddle to your ass. You don't see too many of the previous' generations wigging out, and running into school with an automatic rifle, killing they're classmates. They just sucked it up and did they're work.
ADD and ADHD are just an excuse for schools' to not have to actually do anything with a student that is struggling. The teachers' aren't held accountable for it anymore. Now all they do is write a prescription.
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No, ADD exists....until Mr. Henderson comes along and smacks the **** out of you!
No more ADD.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
You know what? I kinda see A.D.D. as just a lame excuse. It doesn't really exist.
It was made-up by some Psych major to win a nobel prize, or make tons of dough off of Riddilin.
I think FrodeMk3 is Tom Cruise... or at least a scientologist.
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What you don't understand about ADD is... oh look, a squirrel!:p
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Originally posted by SD67
Not directly. Folks with ADD are more likely to wig out that others, if they happen to suddenly stop taking their medication even more so. You do NOT want someone like that to be close to a firearm.
People with ADD also tend to have a resentment of authority. Now take one medication deprived sufferer of ADD, add one firearm and a sprinkling of police and you have instant insurance payout potential.
that's the dumbest thing that i have ever heard SD.
i have adult ADD.
clear cut case. i have taken meds for it in the past. it helped me go from being a highschool dropout to a grad student. but it's not the only part that needs to be worked on.
here is what i can tell you about people with ADD.
they are usually very intelligent.
their brains process information very rapidly.
they have a difficult time staying on task because of the way that they process information.
they can combat their impulsiveness, but it takes alot of time and effort. it wont happen overnight.
drugs help, but therapy (many forms and ways) can be useful to help train the mind to stay in the present.
patterns and habits must be established but they must come from within.
what rpm said was true. for about 5 minutes. lord knows i had my share of those wake ups. but the real cure is internal.
add people can actually suffer from what is called "hyperfocus" or "hyperawareness" it's a form of perfectionist obsessing that occurs when the mind cannot make the body act on the amount of information that it is presenting itself.
adderall is helpful for people, but you have to be careful with it. i tried it once and turned into a fruggin nut bag. i had better luck with small doses of ritalin (which takes the edge off of an add person) than i did with adderall. i don't like adderal. not one bit. it's an uber drug. it's easilly abused.
there are other medications out there now that can be equally as effective but less destructive.
trycyclic anti depressants worked well for me. no, i wasn't depressed, but they stimulate the brain to hold on to dopamine in the receptors which aid in concentraition.
strattera is a non stimulant drug that has seen some great results. she might ask about this. i'd recommend that route first.
homeopathic therapy is very important as well. what we take in is what helps to determine our output. the body being a temple and all.
that said,
i fire guns just fine...even without medication. and aside from average fighting skills, i am able to fly my cartoon plane without much difficulty.
as for authority.
screw you. you aint the boss of me.
;)
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lol JB88 I too have ADD :) (I can agree with you about the process information quickly, we are exceptionally fast learners. Are you also one of those annoying folk who can do pretty much anything they decide to turn their hands to with an undeniable penchant for perfection?)
But that has not prevented me from getting my PPL (here in Oz).
I can speak from experience about the wigging out though, and I've seen first hand what happens when medication dependant ADD folks have suddenly dropped their medications. Thankfully I learned long ago how to manage it without meds, which is more than likely what allowed me to get my PPL as I'm pretty sure those meds and most antidepressants are disqualifiers for an medical.
Oh, and screw you too you authoritarian bastage! :lol
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btw, I forgot to add (npi) we are also narcissistic bastages to boot. ;)
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Fabricated by docs in the industry. Call it a million other things, but give it it's own special mark, you make millions.
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yeah over the years I'm beginning to lean that way in some respects but my life experience tells me otherwise. I do however believe it has been grossly misdiagnosed for those who have a severe lack of discipline.
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it has often been misdiagnosed.
but it is real i assure you. very.
and it is hard.
but then, everyone has a cross to bear.
i just can't remember where i left mine.
;)
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:rofl
Damn you mean that thing was a cross?
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Good info, JB88. She started the med today and she texted to say its making her sleepy and groggy. Since she cant take any caffeine with this med, she's hoping the fog lifts.
As for the med making you edgey....yikes. Let's pray!
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thanks lepaul.
ritalin never made me feel that way.
i felt quite centered very quickly after taking it.
adderal is a different monkey altogether.
i was a wreck on that stuff and changed it immediately.
dunno what's gonna happen with her. i hope it turns out well.
i am sure that she will be just fine.
:)
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I can tell that you have never dealt with some one with the affliction. My son has it, and I spent 4 months sitting with him in class to keep him on track when he was in the first grade. The right drug used in moderation, is a world changing experience. My son went from climbing out the windows to being an achiever that finished school (HS) two years early. Absolutely life changing. As to the caffeine it is what we would do if we were caught without his meds on a trip, indeed it is not something you want to do in addition to the meds. Other than that make sure the medical pepole keep track of the reaction to each medication, each one has a different results, and adjusting / finding the right medication will make a world of difference.
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
You know what? I kinda see A.D.D. as just a lame excuse. It doesn't really exist.
It was made-up by some Psych major to win a nobel prize, or make tons of dough off of Riddilin.
(snip)
ADD and ADHD are just an excuse for schools' to not have to actually do anything with a student that is struggling. The teachers' aren't held accountable for it anymore. Now all they do is write a prescription.
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Originally posted by Russian
From personal experience: Chicks on meds are best lays, and worst GFs....
Made a rule long ago, never to date crazies.
You just have to be crazier than she is.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
People with ADD diagnosis:
1. Can't get pilot certificate
2. Can't purchase a gun (H.R. 2640)
3. Will pay a large premium for life insurance
It's to be avoided.
Of course its impossible to "avoid" it if you have it. :rolleyes: And love does not "avoid" someone because of a medical condition. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Sandman
Why #2 and #3?
Is ADD life threatening?
Because of the drugs prescribed aren't just casual vitamins. They are practically Speed.
Anyone who has ever been on Ritalin or the other ADD drugs are automatically precluded from US Military service.
Anyway, I have been a camp counselor. I have dealt with kids who really did need the drugs, and benefited from them. Then again, I have dealt with kids who did need a strong backhand.
These kids have never heard the word "Punishment" from their parents. Another foreign word is "NO." And these kids were placed on Ritalin simply because their parents were rich and incompetent.
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Let me see if I can help you understand Ripsnort. Because the diagnosis for ADD is so easy to get in our current culture and the consequences are so dire, caution is advised. Teachers and school nurses are casually diagnosing kids as having ADD and, with a wave of the hand, stripping these kids of career choices and constitutional rights and more.
I'm willing to wager that 9/10ths of ADHD diagnoses are specious. I'd want a second or third independent opinion before I'd buy it.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Let me see if I can help you understand Ripsnort. Because the diagnosis for ADD is so easy to get in our current culture and the consequences are so dire, caution is advised. Teachers and school nurses are casually diagnosing kids as having ADD and, with a wave of the hand, stripping these kids of career choices and constitutional rights and more.
I'm willing to wager that 9/10ths of ADHD diagnoses are specious. I'd want a second or third independent opinion before I'd buy it.
http://www.surfthechannel.com/info/television/South_Park/36427/S4E3.html
And before it gets skuzzified, the creators of South Park encourage the downloading if their episodes.
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growing up... and even now.. I have been told that I lack ability to pay attention... I was told by a shrink back before they had the silly add thing that my mind was like a centrifuge just spinning around throwing stuff out.
I am EXTREMELY glad that medicine had not advanced enough back then for the quacks to "treat" me.
Grew up around hundreds of kids like me.. some were brighter... some were dumber.. some were agitated a lot and some were calmer.. none ever got drugged out by the school...
We all self medicated later on in the 70's but... not the same thing... seems criminal to do it to kids and silly to do it to adults.
Oh well.. strange old world we live in..
women? all women are crazy.. some hide it better or longer than others but they are all crazy.
Seems to me that most of the time the reason they drug little boys is because the boys are acting like.... boys.
lazs
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Teachers and school nurses are casually diagnosing kids as having ADD and, with a wave of the hand, stripping these kids of career choices and constitutional rights and more.
Teachers and school nurses cannot record "ADD" into their medical records. Only a physician can.
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when I was growing up.. not one kid had braces on their teeth but almost every other one had their tonsils out.
Now.. every kid "needs" braces or they will suffer like 400 demons are on them but... not a one needs his tonsils out.
The tonsil docs had the best houses and cars. the braces docs do now.
lazs
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Teachers and school nurses cannot record "ADD" into their medical records. Only a physician can.
You're fooling yourself if you believe that means anything. Teachers and school administrators are sending kids home saying "your kid must receive medication for ADD or he/she will not be allowed back in school", and the impetus is for the parent to find a doctor that will "confirm" their in-school diagnosis.
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I bought a book on ADD and promptly lost it. Forgot it on a plane.
ADD or as it's known now AD/HD is a nuerological problem. People with AD/HD will present atypical EEGs and brain MRIs show a smaller than normal cerebellum in people with AD/HD. I've been told, but I haven't read, that the cerebellum has been shown to increase in size after a time on AD/HD meds. At any rate, it is real.
People with AD/HD are often bright, so they get labeled as lazy, or "gifted underachiever" As a result of these difficulties they often develope other problems such as low self esteem, depression, substance abuse, anti social behavior.
A hundred years ago somebody with AD/HD probably would've gone though life without much problem. We live in a much different world now. Five thousand years ago when life was just feeding, fighting and mating a person with AD/HD would've probably excelled.
I wish they had known about this when I was a kid. My father was a narrow minded sob, he thought there wasn't any child problems that couldn't be solved with a fist. Which compounded my problems, because teachers just sympatetically wrote off my performance to abusive home enviornment.
People with AD/HD are often good at high stimulus work. I knew a couple SF medics who, looking back, I'm sure had AD/HD. But none of daily civilian life is highly stimulating. For me medication was a godsend, it was as you will often here people with AD/HD say, like turning on a light switch. Bio feedback treatment has shown to be promising, but so far it's availability is limited.
Lazs if you can do things like build hot-rods, I would be surprised if you have ad/hd.
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Originally posted by rpm
The crazier the chick, the better the sex.- Man Law #6
That wasnt true in my case :(
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Originally posted by Chairboy
You're fooling yourself if you believe that means anything. Teachers and school administrators are sending kids home saying "your kid must receive medication for ADD or he/she will not be allowed back in school", and the impetus is for the parent to find a doctor that will "confirm" their in-school diagnosis.
Give me an example.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Why #2 and #3?
Is ADD life threatening?
With regards to many jobs, the military, and forearms ownership, ADD, or ADHD, or whatever the flavor of the week is, is considered the same as being adjudicated mentally defective.
They did that to my son when he was about 6. I fought the entire family and the school system for over a year. The DRUGS they had him on were so restricted that wife or I had to take off from work, drive to the doctor's office, and pick up a written prescription to take to the pharmacy. I finally went berserk one day, flushed the stuff down the toilet, and told them all to KMA.
I can only HOPE that he won't be penalized for that stupidity later, should he want to try the military, or something of that nature.
He's fine now, he's just a BOY. So was I. He's actually a lot better since we stopped DRUGGING him. Cod damned FOOLS. They told me he couldn't come back to school without the medication, and they could tell. I told them I'd sue them (among other things). He's getting pretty decent grades, and doing pretty well in athletics too.
On the subject of Adderall, my Dad was on it for a while, after he had brain surgery for an aneurysm. He had several problems that they treated with Adderall and Ativan (can't remember the spelling for sure). Those worked, they were prescribed as anti psychotics. But he was suffering from the damage done by the surgery, as well as fluid build up, and the early stages of dementia.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I can only HOPE that he won't be penalized for that stupidity later, should he want to try the military, or something of that nature.
.
I was I tried to get intwice Navy DEP in 96, then Army in 05. first time they found I was on ritalin when I was 10(who wasnt in the 90s?). the 2nd I was on some med list the recruiter guy said from being kicked out the first.
I can buy guns just fine though.
Oh I applied for a job at a US embassy in a Euro country once, and I guess they had that list too cause they hired a Turk over a citizen.
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Pooh: Up until recently, that's been true. You may want to review HR 2640 to see how that's changing.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Z16&q=H.R.+2640+adhd&btnG=Search
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My oldest has add and I'll tell you first hand she was a bear to deal with recently when she was hurt.
She was hit by a car & I spent month's with her in abnormal medication state's... from then on I (my wife & I) have spent arnold loads of effort to reduce the meds and increase her ability to deal with this with her mind. The later works but it's not easy by any stretch of the means!
It's dam hard but work them off the drugs. They will be better off in the long run to deal with their body's without the meds in real life.
It seem's so easy to numb them and get buy but it's not the right thing to do with a child.
MGD
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i never had a problem coming off of them.
that is not to say that it isn't an issue for others. it is. but is it possible that you are now dealing with the old problem from a new point of view having seen different results?
i should say repeat myself...i am not advocating drugs.
in my view, ADD is also a gift and children who have been diagnosed with it would be better served by attending classes where they are better equipted to handle that type of energy. school systems are an averaging factor. ADD people are far from average and given the right environment with the appropriate challenges, they can not only thrive, but surpass the level that would have otherwise been expected of them in the cookie cutter world of the public school systems.
programs like those in montessori or like systems have shown to be a decent alternative.
oops. i rambled.
dammmmmmmn yoooooooouuuu ADD!
solly.
:D
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Boy I opened a can of worms :)
Well Day two and asides having a big ole caffeine headache (she sorely misses her coffee and Coca Cola), she hasnt noted any changes. She felt very groggy this morning and nauseous but when it was time for the afternoon dose, she was feeling alright.
JB, she teaches at a daycare that is modelled around that Montessori stuff.
Wont comment on the sex comments!
Like I started off this thread with, Im more curious about the adults. I agree that kids are overly diagnosed. Certainly some need it, but parenting isnt quiet what it was when we were all kiddos.
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its a gift lepaul.
a very frustrating gift.
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Originally posted by JB88
adderall is helpful for people, but you have to be careful with it. i tried it once and turned into a fruggin nut bag. i had better luck with small doses of ritalin (which takes the edge off of an add person) than i did with adderall. i don't like adderal. not one bit. it's an uber drug. it's easilly abused.
strattera is a non stimulant drug that has seen some great results. she might ask about this. i'd recommend that route first.
a common problem with adderall is that it inhibits your eating & sleeping, which screws up everything else as a result of no sleep & no food =) You could probably counter that with remeron, or something of the sort. Sucks to take a drug to counter a drug though.
straterra is pretty great. I'd say ditto on 88's recommendation to have her doctor consider that one.
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I advocate no drugs at all. Teach the children to deal with it asap.
There will be cases when the drug's are usefull but it's up to the parent's to make sure their children are not being "dope'ed" into submission.
I have started an agressive plan with the doctor's to reduce's my oldest's drugs. The problem is it takes a ton of effort from Mom (& me but she does most of the work) to deal with it.
It's all subjective.
MGD
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I'm surprised to learn that having AD/HD precludes one from military service because when I was in I knew a soldier that had a prescription for and took ritalin. I can only guess that he was diagnosed after he was accepted for service. The service is funny that way; have diabetes, can't get in, develop diabetes while in the service and you can stay in. So my advice is if you have AD/HD, don't tell the recruiter and stop taking your meds. You won't need them in basic or ait anyway. Then after you've been in for a year, go get tested for AD/HD.
The army also used to issue ritalin to soldiers for use on long duration missions.
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First of all,
ADD does NOT equal crazy.
Second,
Teachers do not diagnose ADD, only a doctor/shrink can do that. Teachers may suspect it, but if a teacher tells a parent, “I think your child has ADD”, their career pretty much ends right there. Parents, teachers and others who know the child well fill out surveys that the psychologist compiles along with his/her own observations and tests. Heck, I filled one of these out yesterday.
I don’t know much about adult ADD in particular, but I’ve worked with plenty of children with ADD. The meds are scary and have serious side effects. I’ve seen kids go from being super happy, laughing, joyful kids to total zombies. Often they try different dosages or drugs and find a happy medium. I’ve seen plenty of kids go from being Tasmanian Devil spazzes who have little idea what’s going on, to pretty good students who learn alongside their peers. I’ve also seen plenty of kids who have never really improved; many kids only seem to learn a small fraction of what their peers learn. (Note: I teach K-8 computers to 440 students and have been with the same kids for six years. I am not where fully aware of all of my students diagnosis, meds & IEPs, however.)
As far as dropping sugar and caffeine; in many ways these are drugs and may be a big part of the problem. I challenge any adult to drop caffeine and sugar (including candy, sweets, sugared drinks, sugared deserts, etc.) for one week. You will be amazed by the results!
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The catholic school teachers said that I was lazy and an underachiever.. I daydreamed and tuned out.. I got good scores on IQ tests. I AM EXTREMELY GLAD NO ONE DRUGGED ME UP WHEN I WAS IN SECOND GRADE.
It is a scam of all scams. My nephew was told (by teachers rip) that he had add and that he couldn't come back to school till he got drugged up.
My brother fought it but had few resources.. the poor get drugged more... and he lost.. the kid got drugged.. he was not even a kid anymore. My brother was frantic and finally just took the kid off meds and worked with him and impressed on him how to "fake it"...
the kid is now 16 and normal and healthy.. took him shooting the other day.
An adult who thinks that they have add enough to be drugged is either naive or a woman.
lazs
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well, i am glad that you stopped being a woman when you stopped drugging yourself too lazs.
;)
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well jb.. have you ever noticed what crybabies druggies are? I think that being one myself and being around em... you just don't notice it at the time but.. what a bunch of whiners and excuse makers for their "need" to be drugged.
It is difficult to quit drugs. I did not have an easy time of it. I am extremely glad that I was not given drugs as a second grade school kid.
I would also say that prescription drug abuse is very very common. You have an estremely high chance of becoming a drug abuser from long term perscription drug use.
So yeah... most drug users and abusers are womanly about crybabies.. I was too.
lazs
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Because of the drugs prescribed aren't just casual vitamins. They are practically Speed.
Anyone who has ever been on Ritalin or the other ADD drugs are automatically precluded from US Military service.
This part of your statement isn't true... or let me say this... if there is a regulation, it is ignored. Annecdotally, about 10% of the OIF/OEF vets that I see have the Dx and take the medications (and most of them were Dx'd prior to enlistment.)
As far as the second part of what you said (not included in the quote above) i agree with you a gazillion percent.
ADD & ADHD exist, there's no doubt... but it and Autism are so over diagnosed it's [sadly] laughable. :( But that's just my opinion.
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Originally posted by lazs2
well jb.. have you ever noticed what crybabies druggies are? I think that being one myself and being around em... you just don't notice it at the time but.. what a bunch of whiners and excuse makers for their "need" to be drugged.
It is difficult to quit drugs. I did not have an easy time of it. I am extremely glad that I was not given drugs as a second grade school kid.
I would also say that prescription drug abuse is very very common. You have an estremely high chance of becoming a drug abuser from long term perscription drug use.
So yeah... most drug users and abusers are womanly about crybabies.. I was too.
lazs
please lasz, call me 88. weve known each other long enough.
i know lots of people like that. not just ones on drugs.
i also know that there was a time when it saved my ever loving life.
that wasn't an excuse. it was just a thing ya know?
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Once again Lazs is spectacularly wrong. This is the typical narrow minded attitude that people with AD/HD will be confronted with. I wouldn't wish this problem on anybody and I, unlike some, certainly don't see it as a gift.
I do concede that it is probably a missused diagnosis in children. And legislation is exacerbating the problem. They say that 40% of children with AD/HD "grow out of it" by the time they are adults. And 60% have AD/HD for life. I'm suspicious that those who "grew out of it" never really had it in the first place.
AD/HD isn't something that just partially affects a person. It's profound, in all aspects of their life.
I think, in my lay opinion, a key indicator that a child's brain is normal, and they don't have AD/HD, is that after adjusting medication the child is still less normal than he was before medication.
The medication is supposed to normalize performance, if it doesn't then the dosage needs to be adjusted, or stopped. I use the word performance, not behavior. Since AD/HD is not so much a behavioral problem, but a performance problem.
Like I said, it is a problem that has visible medical causes. My advise to parents who suspect that thier child has AD/HD is to first have their family practice physician evaluate them for things like hypo/hyperthyroidism. Then a psychologist to evaluate them. Then finally if the psychologist's exams indicate AD/HD, have a neurologist examine them, EEG, MRI etc. If all the diagnostics are positive for AD/HD return to the psychologist so he can refer you to a child psychiatrist to help you develop a plan of treatment.
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suave.. how am I wrong? How is anything I have said wrong?
Is this add a new disease brought on by climate change? did it not exist when I was growing up? The kids seemed to have survived then. some kids.. like me.. couldn't pay attention.. as we got older we prioritzed . I got advanced education on my own later in life on my own time at night.. when I needed it or.. seen the need for it.
So who of my generation was untreated and had it so bad? what are the stats?
lazs
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and 88 (I feel so much closer to you now) .. how did it save your life?
I am serious. I daydreamed my way through school. I have had a tough time staying on a project or whatever even now but.. I have used these things to my advantage.. it allows me to make quick and good judgements I think. I never have problems making a decision. I am never bored. I am an individual.. I don't want those things drugged out of me.
lazs
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there is a difference between daydreaming and simply being unable to find a way to balance. taking medications allowed me establish discipline and habits that were essential to my growth as an individual.
i should not say that it was just the drugs that did it...i did...but it helped. alot.
i was not then, nor have ever been, any less of an individual.
for me it was medicine. not drugs.
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I can't say.. just as you have no idea what my life was like.. I have no idea what yours was like. I am old enough to have seen a lot of kids and kids grow up though.. In my time people had more kids too. the neighborhood was full of em.
I have to say that I have never seen anyone as bad as you tell me you were so my experience may not be enough. I also say that my parents sent me to doctors who felt my problem was not just "daydreaming" but...
Again.. I am really glad that no "help" was available.
How did it save your life again? did you walk out in front of cars? I did that to some extent.. forgot to get off school buses and such too. No big deal.. had four brothers.. if one didn't survive.. still had four I guess.
lazs
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I don’t think diagnosing ADD is as simple as “you have it” or “you don’t”, it’s a sliding scale. I think that most of us have ADD symptoms to a certain degree, some of the time. Some folks have ADD symptoms to the extreme, practically all the time. Many of these folks just can’t function anywhere near normal in society without medicine; the benefits of the right dosage of the right drug outweigh the drawbacks of the side effects for these folks.
It’s arguable whether those kids who are between normal and extreme should go on drugs; each child is different. Each child may be missing out on a lot of important learning and habit development. Each child may be hit with negative side effects more or less. Some doctors have reputations for leaning towards the drugs, while other’s lean away from them. Some parents want an easy solution while others will never consider medications no matter severe their child is. Most parents and doctors are interested in what’s best for the child and do not come to conclusions easily.
It’s ironic to criticize “drugging up kids” when most parents don’t think twice about loading them up with caffeine and sugar and may be only somewhat concerned when older ones consume alcohol and use tobacco among other things.
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Lazs it really sounds to me like you don't have AD/HD. Like I said if you can build something, or make yourself prepare a meal, or fold laundry without being miserable than you probably don't have AD/HD. To a person with AD/HD almost everything is boring to them.
To a person with AD/HD the mundane tasks of daily life, for example washing dishes or taking out garbage, are excruciating. We will force ourselves to do what we really, really have to do but it will cause us to be miserable. I'm sure this sounds rediculous to people who don't have this problem.
How many times have you locked your keys in your car this month? How many times have you lost your keys this month? How many times has your car battery been dead because you forgot to turn the lights off?
How many autos have you had repossessed from you not because you couldn't afford it but because you just didn't make the payments? How many times have you had your utilities turned off for the same reason?
How many times a week does a coworker or somebody standing right in front have to stop talking and snap their fingers or bark your name to get you back into the conversation?
Have you ever slept through artillery, or often while undergoing dental procedures? Would you rather have a root canal rather than wash dishes? Do you understand why people sleep on beds? Or own multiple dishes, or furniture? Have you ever procrastinated eating for more than a day?
I think a small percentage of people have alllways had AD/HD, they just forced themselves to do the minimal to get buy, and lead pretty miserable lives.
When I was in school nobody could figure out what was wrong with me. My dad knocked the crap out of me, I was put in special ed type classes with somebody allways looking over my shoulder, still I would rarely ever even complete an assignment. I got held back a year. I was given an IQ test and scored very well, I didn't have any learning disabilities like dyslexia. Everybody eventually gave up, concluded that I was lazy or a product of an abusive parent.
At some point one must wonder why a smart person would make his life miserable if it was just a matter of self discipline.
I did well in the military because I excelled in the field, out in the mud and snow. Back in the rear I caught a lot of heat for things like allways messy quarters. Eventually my supervisors would overlook these things because I was a good soldier where it mattered. My attempt at college was pathetic. I got a bone head vocational degree after 2 attempts.
I continued to get by in life, barely. Mostly by being a hard worker, going out of my way to help coworkers and being naturally funny. This has probably kept me from being fired a few times. As I was often late, forgetfull, and I often wouldn't do clerical work without a lot of threatening.
Never the less I was often miserable and living well below and behind my capabilities.
I learned about AD/HD and it didn't take me long to realize I was a poster boy candidate. So I went for treatment, I procrastenated for 5 years and I was late for appointments but I finally did it. And I got treated, it was a pretty clear cut diagnosis. I started on medication, for me it worked absolutely.
Now I can do things like wash the dishes and it doesn't seem like crossing the himalayas, so this is what it's supposed to be like? Too easy. My place isn't in a state of squalor anymore, I can have friends over now. Now after I complete mundane task I don't feel like defeated crap, I actually get a positive feeling. I can do basic every day things and it doesn't make me miserable. I've resumed my education, and I actually like it.
So, you see, I know that AD/HD is quite real. No matter what quacks try to say, or how many try to dismiss it as just normal laziness or day dreaming.
Just recently I've been able to see what life is like without suffering from AD/HD. And don't even want to think about the possiblity of having to go back to the way I was because I couldn't get treatment anymore because some flakes convince enough politicians that AD/HD isn't real.
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LePaul,
You live in Maine correct. How bad is this years winter? I used to live near Shokalin Siberia. Long over cast cold winters made people act nasty and loose focus back in those days. Not ADD.
You are describing my wife currently. But her problem is her age combined with a very stressfull job environment. I watched her change as the stress increased. So I've sent her to spend the weekend in Chicago with her sister to girl around. She is in her 50's so female harmones along with stress is a big issue now.
Have you tried sending your wife on a vacation for a long weekend by herself? Amazing what what that does for them. I remember up to 10 years ago with women it wasent ADD they tested for, but the unique aspect of hormonal human female biology and how they have extream harmone issues in response to stress and other environmental preassures compounded with age. ADD in her case seems too easy. As women age they have a tendancy to goiter problems combined with thier thyroid. Stress, caffiene, sugar, alcohol, all of our modern addictive fast food infflamitories exaserbate goiter in women. And exaserbait mood and harmone issues.
Have gotten second or third opinions? Asking question here sounds like you are not 100% convinced yourself.
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Humanity got where it is today, relatively speaking, without behavior altering drugs for kids. My vote has been and is we are better off without them. In the 80's my oldest son's school recommended behavior altering drugs. I said no. Never regretted it.
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When I was 8 my mother noticed I wrote numbers backwards and spelled out of sequence. It impacted my school work. Mom sat down with me and figured out how I was seeing numbers and letters. Then she helped me memorize what number or letter I should write based on what I was first seeing or hearing. My last adult job 40 years later was for Bank of America 3rd level system support and analysis for IT as a AVP.
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suave.. I admit that I have never seen anyone like you say you were.
I have all those traits to an extent tho. I would say that the reason that I have never seen anyone like you tho is because you are one in a million or worse.
I think eskimo said it best.. that all of us have those traits in some degree or another. I just think that the whole thing is a scam so far as what I have seen... I have seen kids that I would diagnose as "boy child" who were told to get that damn kid drugged up or don't come back to school.
they had less "symptoms" than I had.
I agree that I don't have it... I would say that if I don't have it then 99% of the poor kids they drug out don't have it either.
A horsesass boss I had said the he was a five time cancer survivor.. he had 5 little skin cancer dots removed from his skin.
It is that type of thing. I think that these kids would be 100 times better off never seeing a "doctor".
At least in my day they only took out the tonsils.
lazs
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isnt adderall like amphetamine?
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A lot of the kids they say have ADD today are just poorly disciplined kids who seem to think they don't have to do anything they don't want to do. They want to be entertained all the time because that is what their parents did. A good spanking has a miraculous effect on curing "ADD".
There are people I think have a disorder that fits the ADD diagnosis, but not all kids labeled ADD are effected.
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Originally posted by SD67
Not directly. Folks with ADD are more likely to wig out that others, if they happen to suddenly stop taking their medication even more so. You do NOT want someone like that to be close to a firearm.
People with ADD also tend to have a resentment of authority. Now take one medication deprived sufferer of ADD, add one firearm and a sprinkling of police and you have instant insurance payout potential.
You are a conspiracy theorist at best. Especially one who hasn't a clue about what he is trying to talk about.
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
You know what? I kinda see A.D.D. as just a lame excuse. It doesn't really exist.
It was made-up by some Psych major to win a nobel prize, or make tons of dough off of Riddilin.
Because I know plenty of folks, aged 50+, who might have had some trouble in school, but...public schools' then did not treat you with 'kid gloves' like they do today. If you did not do your homework, they did not say you needed medication, and had to be given less work...They kept you after school in detention, or made you go to study hall, or called your parents', and the dean would take his paddle to your ass. You don't see too many of the previous' generations wigging out, and running into school with an automatic rifle, killing they're classmates. They just sucked it up and did they're work.
ADD and ADHD are just an excuse for schools' to not have to actually do anything with a student that is struggling. The teachers' aren't held accountable for it anymore. Now all they do is write a prescription.
You are incorrect in your summarization/generalization as well.
This Community tends to make me sick to my stomach when drivel like this is used. Pontificating on an internet BBS either in terms of "shock value" or "I'm right", while attempting to belittle other's on a condition that is very real, is just sickening.
I'm literally sick to my stomach at reading your replies. Some of you should be penitent.
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If you look at a few case studies of adults with AD/HD I think you'll find that I'm about par for the course.
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The _real_ problem is things like the new law I cited above that says people like lots of veterans and folks with ADHD can't buy guns.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
People with ADD diagnosis:
1. Can't get pilot certificate
2. Can't purchase a gun (H.R. 2640)
3. Will pay a large premium for life insurance
It's to be avoided.
People with ADD diagnosis:
1. Can't get pilot certificate-dont know
2. Can't purchase a gun (H.R. 2640)-wrong
3. Will pay a large premium for life insurance-dont know
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acfireguy: Children with past diagnosis for ADHD, People diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, veterans dealing with PTSD and who seek psychiatric help, men and woman who are charged or suspected of domestic violence, and anyone currently under medication for psychiatric reasons what so ever are targets of HR 2640.
Just because something _seems_ wrong doesn't mean it really is. That's one of those tough lessons you learn when growing up.
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Sorry to hijack the thread, I sort of went on a rant. It's a sensitive issue to me for obvious reasons.
Back on topic. A person doesn't just get AD/HD at 50. It's something she would've had all her life.
For those of you who think my account is unusually severe, bear in mind that I'm an AD/HD success story. I never commited suicide, never been an addict, never been homeless or an inmate.
I'm going to post a link to a video about a 12 y/o boy who has REAL AD/HD. He was originally misdiagnosed with depression. After a few weeks on anti-depressants he attempted suicide. Subsequently he was tested and found to have AD/HD. He was treated with appropriate medicine and his life became much happier, and more normal. I see a lot of paralels between him and me at 12.
At one point he makes a statement about wondering if he's going to have a job and pay taxes when he grows up, or if he will be homeless living behind a dumpster. For a 12 y/o that's pretty insightful, he's allready realizing that the challenges he's facing may prevent him from having a place in society at all. That struck a cord with me because I can remember having the same thoughts at his age.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/medicating/watch/
click on video 4 "Alex's story"
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Man made drugs do nothing for people except profit others. This is as said before a name which has an umbrella effect and covers anything in the vicinity of it. My nephew was diagnosed ADHD got put on riddilan ( spelling?) and he was sick as, and did nothing for him, he went else where to people who give a sh#t and they have got him into councilling. These guys are brilliant, the change is huge, and as said before it is from inside that changes need to be made, outside it's the people around them who have to help with this also
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
You are a conspiracy theorist at best. Especially one who hasn't a clue about what he is trying to talk about.
You are incorrect in your summarization/generalization as well.
This Community tends to make me sick to my stomach when drivel like this is used. Pontificating on an internet BBS either in terms of "shock value" or "I'm right", while attempting to belittle other's on a condition that is very real, is just sickening.
I'm literally sick to my stomach at reading your replies. Some of you should be penitent.
As it is, I stand by my opinion; which is what I posted.
That said, with this thread origanally being about LePaul's girl, I only wish that the best can happen. I don't know anything about Adderall, But I'm sure that if her case is being controlled by a good doctor, then I pray everything turns' out all right for her, and him. LePaul.
I was not intentionally trying to use shock value to simply win an argument on this BBS. I feel strongly about it, because every day, people who don't have children of they're own try to tell me how to raise my own children. How I'm dangerously de-stabilizing because I let my children shoot firearms, or let them play violent video games, or encourage them in "aggressive" sports, such as football. Simply because one of my children, when he was 5 years' old, mentioned that I kept firearms' at home, I had to put up with a visit from the CPS, along with a Sheriff's deputy escort. I had to send all of my guns' to my fathers' house, because if I didn't, They were gonna come back with a warrant. The woman from the CPS thought that I was going to take this out on my children, so she was contemplating taking them to the Jamison center anyway. Fortunately my father, who is a retired Attorney, pointed out that without a warrant, they were perilously close to getting in trouble for being overly belligerent, with an accompanying loss of job. At this point they retreated, and I haven't seen them since. And of course, none of my children have taken one of my firearms and "went postal", Even though they keep trying to have my 2nd oldest diagnosed with ADD.
I am sorry for being one of the ones to help hijack this thread, But I don't feel I need to be penitent for a Mother****ing thing, in regards' to how I feel about this.
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Originally posted by SPKmes
Man made drugs do nothing for people except profit others.
Tom Cruise agrees with you.
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Originally posted by Suave
Sorry to hijack the thread, I sort of went on a rant. It's a sensitive issue to me for obvious reasons.
Back on topic. A person doesn't just get AD/HD at 50. It's something she would've had all her life.
For those of you who think my account is unusually severe, bear in mind that I'm an AD/HD success story. I never commited suicide, never been an addict, never been homeless or an inmate.
I'm going to post a link to a video about a 12 y/o boy who has REAL AD/HD. He was originally misdiagnosed with depression. After a few weeks on anti-depressants he attempted suicide. Subsequently he was tested and found to have AD/HD. He was treated with appropriate medicine and his life became much happier, and more normal. I see a lot of paralels between him and me at 12.
At one point he makes a statement about wondering if he's going to have a job and pay taxes when he grows up, or if he will be homeless living behind a dumpster. For a 12 y/o that's pretty insightful, he's allready realizing that the challenges he's facing may prevent him from having a place in society at all. That struck a cord with me because I can remember having the same thoughts at his age.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/medicating/watch/
click on video 4 "Alex's story"
That makes two of us as "success stories". I outgrew it by the 9th grade. Now, I'm the shoulder that gets cried on in my family. 20 years it never would been discussed in my family, but now me being the youngest in the family, has become the strongest of the family. They also know of the hurdles I had to overcome and I succeeded.
I've encountered a few in my life that have used it as a crutch. I chide them face to face and try to instill a fervor to buck up. Most, have too difficult of a time with it and I not only feel their pain, I feel bad for them as a fellow human being.
I DO find it humorous when some have to "put down others, to make themselves "look better". I'll never understand why some have to do this. It's almost like they are running from something.
In closing, LePaul, if you wish to PM me, feel free. I'm not gonna let anymore idiotic comments get in the way of progress. I've also "been there" and have heard all of the negativity in a lifetime. So far I see a few people posting that "have an opinion, while never have even been there." Again, PM me and if you wish, maybe I can lend a hand and help. THAT is what a "Community" is supposed to do (which is help), not tear people down.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Tom Cruise agrees with you.
...and Tom Cruise is a moron. :)
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I would be interested in how many have it as bad as suave.
If they are the crazies that you see wandering about.. they are indeed a very small percentage. Not worth drugging 1,000 times as many kids over.
That is my problem with the whole thing. the overmedication of children and adults. If you don't think that doctors have not done needless and harmful things in the past and... now..
then you really are crazy.
I was a drug addict for decades. I resent authority even today... I have a "thrillseeker" personality..
I wouldn't have it any other way.
I watched people I know be told that their son was in need of drugs.. I have seen what those drugs did to the poor kid and I have seen how much better they did when the parents took em off the drugs.
There may be a very tiny percent who can't function without the drugs... I have never met one.. but.. it is for sure that it is blown way out of proportion with far too many being needlessly drugged against their, and their parents, will.
lazs