Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dos Equis on January 18, 2008, 01:03:56 PM
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Cheney has his Secret Service detail lie under oath.
A dissenting citizen who had the temerity to speak to the Sith Lord gets imprisoned, and sent to a hole in Guam to rot, out of the reach of reporters.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/us/18colorado.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin
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touching someone without permission is called battery.
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poke a tiger with a stick.
hire a lawyer, sue them quick.
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See Rules #4, #5
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Who is stupid enough to reach out and touch/pat/strike the vice president?
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Who is stupid enough to reach out and touch/pat/strike the vice president?
Apparently Mr Steve Howard is....
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Holy crappolaman! talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.
All in all sounds like our government and judicial system is working, in spite of the eveeeel darth cheney :aok
Actually, I would have been alright if the secret service had simply overreacted and pig piled the guy under the weight of 600 pounds of frenetic seceret service agents. Of course the guy still would have sued....seems like the radical movement type.
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Originally posted by Dos Equis
Cheney has his Secret Service detail lie under oath.
A dissenting citizen who had the temerity to speak to the Sith Lord gets imprisoned, and sent to a hole in Guam to rot, out of the reach of reporters.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/us/18colorado.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin
Dos Equis also needs work a little on his reading comprehension skills...
Mr. McLaughlin said Mr. Reichle, who has since been transferred to Guam, asked him in a call several hours after the encounter to say that there had been an assault to bolster justification for the arrest.
Mr. Reichle, Secret Service agent was transferred to Guam, Not Mr Howard...
Mr. Howards spent about three hours in the Eagle County jail.
Imprisioned? ok, if you say so...
Mr. Reichle had told him he would be charged with assaulting the vice president, but that local law enforcement officials filed only a misdemeanor harassment charge.
That charge was later dismissed at the request of the Eagle County district attorney, Mark Hurlbert, who said in an interview in October 2006 that he had been told that the government did not want to pursue the matter. Mr. Hurlbert said that he could not recall whether Mr. Cheney or the Secret Service had made that determination, though it was his understanding that the vice president did not want to prosecute.
surely Dos Equis you can find better bait material than this...
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Make a snide comment to me then try touching me? I'll give you reasonable grounds for your lawsuit, pal.
Yeager hit the nail on the head, mountain outta mole hill.
Funny little "get rich quick" scheme though.
:aok
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Correction on my part: It is Riechle who was transferred to Guam.
Mr. Howard is not in prison.
Here is what I find disturbing:
"Mr. McLaughlin said Mr. Reichle, who has since been transferred to Guam, asked him in a call several hours after the encounter to say that there had been an assault to bolster justification for the arrest."
So you have a secret service officer saying, in a statement, that no assault happened and then stating, for the record, that another secret service officer called him and asked him to change his story.
I guess nobody finds the idea of the secret service colluding to change a story, regardless of Mr. Howard's stupidity in touching the Vice President (something that people at fundraisers do all the time), a bit concerning. Especially when the changed story then becomes a felony.
No no, it's attack me for being a Democrat, attack the messenger. The usual.
The issue is apolitical. It's about an administration willing, yet again, to reinvent truth to fit a political end, regardless of the consequences or the morality therein. Or even what it means to other people.
Oh, and touching somebody without permission is not battery. That would mean everyone you bumped into getting on the train you committed a crime against.
Criminal battery requires an intent to inflict an injury on another, as distinguished from a tortious battery.
"In the United States, the common law defines the contact for battery as "harmful or offensive". The offensive prong is determined by the reasonable person standard. Looking at a contact objectively, as a reasonable person would see it, would this contact be offensive?"
- Wikipedia
It appears to me that several agents acted as the reasonable man standard, and then were asked - directly - to change their minds about it.
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See Rule #5
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I encourage you to read Steven Howards' deposition. He amazingly seems to remember very little about the encounter. Every other answer is "I don't recall" or "I have no recollection". This guy was so determined to give the Vice Pres a piece of his mind that on two different occasions he loses track of his children in the mall and can not find them.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20080118_Steven_Howards.pdf
Q Now, during that period of time did you have a cell phone with you?
A Probably, but I don't recall.
Q Have you read any of the witness statements that have been produced by the defendants in this case?
A I've scanned them.
Q Okay. So you're aware that at least one agent reports in his witness statement that he overheard you speaking on your cell phone about the Vice President, correct?
A I -- I'm not aware of that.
Q Okay. Do you remember taking out your cell phone and calling someone and telling them that you had seen the Vice President?
A The only person I would have called would have been my wife, and I -- I don't recall -- usually I carry a cell phone. I don't recall if I was carrying one then or not. I -- you can tell by -- when -- when the agent went through my pockets, you can -- I'm sure that it will tell you whether or not I was carrying a cell phone, but I don't recall.
Q Well, Agent Doyle specifically stated in his report that he overheard you say on your cell phone something about, "There's Vice President Cheney, I'm going to ask him if he's killed any kids today." Do you recall making that statement?
A No.
Q If Agent Doyle testified that he heard you make that statement, would you deny that you made that statement?
A I have no recollection.
Q Okay. Is it -- is it at least possible that you made that statement?
A I have no recollection.
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Originally posted by Dos Equis
See Rule #5
you seem to be getting a lot of excerise jumping to conclusions.
a quote from your post
The issue is apolitical. It's about an administration willing, yet again, to reinvent truth to fit a political end, regardless of the consequences or the morality therein.
please show me how Bush's administration is involved here...
What I see is the possiblity that at the very least a couple of agents disagreed on the encounter. At the worst it would appear that Agent Riechle screwed the pooch and wanted his fellow agents to do a little CYA. I have to wonder about Agent Riechle because he goes from being assigned to the Vice Prez security detail to being transferred to Guam...
But you go ahead and keep looking for the conspiracies I'm sure you'll find one someday...
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Take it easy on Dosequis. He is from Michigan (like me:cry ) you just wouldnt understand!:noid
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Originally posted by yankedudel
Take it easy on Dosequis. He is from Michigan (like me:cry ) you just wouldnt understand!:noid
Good thing Bell makes those Black Helicopters and not GM. Otherwise, they'd be coming off the production line in Mexico instead of Texas.
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Honestly, what this sounds like is not Cheney trying to punish this guy, but the Secret Service being embarrassed and trying to retaliate somehow.
The Secret Service wasn't paying attention, and let a random guy touch/tap/hit the vice president on the shoulder.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Honestly, what this sounds like is not Cheney trying to punish this guy, but the Secret Service being embarrassed and trying to retaliate somehow.
The Secret Service wasn't paying attention, and let a random guy touch/tap/hit the vice president on the shoulder.
Bingo...
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Yeah, Im still lost on how the thread got this opening line....
Cheney has his Secret Service detail lie under oath.[/i]
How do you conclude that the VP had the USS Agents lie? I mean, it's just so far fetched from the story I read in the initial post.
:huh
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Shhh Repo, we're not supposed to try and understand in this thread just attack the Democrat...
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Originally posted by REP0MAN
Yeah, Im still lost on how the thread got this opening line....
How do you conclude that the VP had the USS Agents lie? I mean, it's just so far fetched from the story I read in the initial post.
:huh
"Mr. Lane said he had requested that Mr. Cheney submit to a deposition but that he had been repeatedly turned down by the vice president’s lawyers. But Mr. Lane said the mire of accusations and counteraccusations that have been exposed by the Secret Service testimony has made Mr. Cheney an indispensable witness.
“Given the wide differences of view, he is the only one with certain knowledge,” Mr. Lane said. He said he planned to file a motion next week in Federal District Court in Washington to compel Mr. Cheney’s participation."
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Cheney could step forward, simply say 'This man was expressing a view that I do not share, but he did not assault me, nor was there any crime. we are free in this country to express our opinions, even to the highest office in the land, however the manner in which Mr. Howard did so was unseemly, and was unappreciated. However, no crime was committed.'
He could say that, and the whole thing would be dropped in 2 seconds.
He isn't saying that. He wants to make sure he has all the USS agents on the same page, saying it was battery and assault, which then becomes a federal crime and a felony and ruins Howard's life.
If you say otherwise, how does one account for Mr. Cheney unwilling to comment on the matter?
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Originally posted by Dos Equis
If you say otherwise, how does one account for Mr. Cheney unwilling to comment on the matter?
He doesn't want to go through the process of a deposition. Plus they don't want the public to know that Howards got that close to the VP (carrying an unsearched bag containing a shoebox) and was able to touch him.
If you read the evidence and not just the spin that article is feeding you it becomes obvious what really happened.
From Reichle's deposition:
Q Okay. McLaughlin tells you there was no assault. Well, describe for me the conversation you had with him because you must have then said, "Look, you know, you saw what Doyle did and you said that's what happened and now you're telling me that's not what happened." Did you have a conversation to that effect?
A Yes.
Q Well, explain
......
A First and foremost, they probably just don't want to inconvenience the Vice President. Certainly they don't want him to be bothered with a deposition. Perhaps Vice President Cheney just was willing to let it go, you know. He's a tough guy, played high school football. He could very well have been that, you know what, hey, a lot of people don't like me, oh well. And moved on. I don't know.
.......
Q Okay. Why do you think there was an assault?
A Because I've known Special Agent Doyle for 12 years. I know him to be a man of incredible integrity. I trust this man with my life. I used to work with him on the road as a trooper in Colorado. I know Dan Doyle, I know what he's all about. Dan Doyle would never lie to me. He's never lied to me in the past. I've known Dan for 12 years. That coupled with the fact that a the White House photographer corroborated special Agent Doyle's rendition of events. The White House photographer, as far as I'm concerned, is a -- is a great witness because he's a third party independent witness, he has no reason to lie to me.
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He can post political biased crap and we can't debate it? Are you taking a stand on his side Skuzzy?
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lutrel,
Dos Equis needs this to be exactly as evil as he has misinterprited the article and not researched the deposition. His world view can only exist if Cheney and probably Bush are evil and the Secret Service is a code word for \SS\.
This one is too lame and frightenly low caliber for this board.
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Originally posted by Dos Equis
He wants to make sure he has all the USS agents on the same page, saying it was battery and assault, which then becomes a federal crime and a felony and ruins Howard's life.
How do you know? If you're so close to the investigation and, obviously, know all the inner-most details; why don't you just clear it up for them?
Bottom line of the story; Doofus decided to touch the second most highly gaurded figure in the country. He is damn lucky he is still alive to fire up the ACLU-esque machine.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Dos Equis
He isn't saying that. He wants to make sure he has all the USS agents on the same page, saying it was battery and assault, which then becomes a federal crime and a felony and ruins Howard's life.
Have you even read that article!!?!!????
How the hell do you know what another man is thinking? Are you a psychic? Did "voices" relay Cheney's innermost feelings to you and you alone?
Are you telepathic? Did you come by this "insight" by reading the stains on your underwear?
How do you live with all that hate and delusion?
Seek help, dude. Soon.
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Dos Equis, Either you distorted the story to make a troll or like Druss said you really need some help. I hope it was simply to troll a thread. Sith lord indeed. :rolleyes:
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Poor Dos...don't you hate it when facts get in the way of a good story?
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think what you want about Cheney's demeanor(and dog-pile all you want),but if not for HIS pre-emptive foreign policies...Saddam would still be in power,Iran(& Iraq/Syria) would be facist nuclear threats to Isreal,and the rest of the world.
If there was a crime in US policy,it was letting Iraq rot for 12 years before finishing the job.