Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MORAY37 on January 19, 2008, 04:10:07 PM
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Canada: U.S. Added To Torture Watch List
Foreign Ministry Manual Lists Guantanamo Bay Prison As Site Of Possible Abuse
Jan. 18, 2008
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Talk... insult... abuse each other. I'm sure most of you will insult and abuse me. I'm embarrassed the country that showed the most incredible restraint after World War 2, and demanded that law be followed... is in any way shape or form associated with torture. I would hope we hold our government accountable for it and to us.
The United States has been included among a list of countries suspected of using torture on prisoners, produced by the Canadian Foreign Ministry. (AP)
(CBS) A training manual for Canadian diplomats, produced by the Department of Foreign Affairs, includes the United States among countries which potentially use torture on prisoners.
The New York Times reported that a foreign ministry spokesperson confirmed the contents of the manual.
However, Canadian government employees struggled to assure that the attribution was not an official government position against the United States, a close ally.
Also on the torture watch list: Afghanistan, China, Egypt, Iran, Israel, Mexico, Saudi Arabia and Syria.
The ruling Conservative government has heretofore accepted assurances by the Bush administration that the United States does not engage in torture against prisoners, including detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.
A Canadian man, Omar Khadr, is currently being held at the U.S. military prison there. He is accused of a 2002 killing a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan when he was 15 years old.
Lt.-Cmdr. Bill Kuebler, Khadr's U.S. military lawyer, told Canadian broadcaster CTV that he believes the manual contradicts Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper's assurances that his client has received fair treatment.
"Omar has been there for five-and-a-half years, and at some point in the course of Omar Khadr's detention the Canadian government developed the suspicion he was being tortured and abused," Kuebler told the news program "Canada AM."
"And yet it has not acted to obtain his release from Guantanamo Bay and protect his rights, unlike every other Western country that has had its nationals detained in Guantanamo Bay."
A United States Embassy spokesperson told Reuters, “The United States does not permit, tolerate or condone torture under any circumstances.”
The manual - a PowerPoint presentation - is for training diplomats in protecting Canadian citizens who may be detained and subject to abuse in other countries.
CTV said the manual listed, among specific U.S. interrogation techniques, "forced nudity, isolation, and sleep deprivation."
The program was developed as part of a "torture awareness workshop," in response to the case of Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen, born in Syria, who was detained by the United States in 2002 under suspicion that he was tied to terrorists. Arar was transported to Syria. A Canadian inquiry later determined he was tortured there.
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It's about symantics, they aren't prisoners of war. They are terrorist information units.
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"forced nudity, isolation, and sleep deprivation."
i guess that is considered torture in Canada.
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Originally posted by john9001
"forced nudity, isolation, and sleep deprivation."
i guess that is considered torture in Canada.
Actually, those AND waterboarding appear in the US Army's Definitions of Torture. Please feel free to look it up. It's an amazing example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is saying.
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Ahem.... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080119/pl_nm/usa_torture_dc)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Ahem.... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080119/pl_nm/usa_torture_dc)
Yep... nothing like getting a phone call from old GWB telling you to stop whatever you're doing in your own country.
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Originally posted by MORAY37
Yep... nothing like getting a phone call from old GWB telling you to stop whatever you're doing in your own country.
For Moray:
Standard Equipment for guys like Moray I think (http://zapatopi.net/afdb/)
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Originally posted by Dago
For Moray:
Standard Equipment for guys like Moray I think (http://zapatopi.net/afdb/)
Dago... you must know if they work by now.
It's not a conspiracy, btw, if it happens. I guess you're implying there was no pressure from this government on theirs to "revise" that training program....
If you really believe that...
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The entire training manual program was started as the result of the case of Maher Arar who was detained by the U.S. in 2002 because he was under suspicion of having ties to terrorists. He was later deported to Syria, where, according to a Canadian inquiry, it was determined that he was tortured.
The wording of the article is most enlightening:
....a list of countries "suspected"...
...countries which "potentially" use torture...
...Canadian government officials struggled to assure that the attribution was "NOT an official government position" against the U.S...
The manual only came to light as the result of the efforts of a lawyer for a Muslim citizen of Canada trying to drum up sympathy for his client's plight. The young killer of an U.S. soldier has been detained for over five years at Guantanamo Bay. The lawyer has cited the manual as proof that the Canadian government does not believe U.S. assurances that the young man is not being tortured.
No proof is given that the young man is, indeed, being tortured. The allegations are spurious at best, and completely transparent as to their intent.
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Originally posted by MORAY37
Canada: U.S. Added To Torture Watch List
Foreign Ministry Manual Lists Guantanamo Bay Prison As Site Of Possible Abuse
Jan. 18, 2008
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Talk... insult... abuse each other. I'm sure most of you will insult and abuse me. I'm embarrassed the country that showed the most incredible restraint after World War 2, and demanded that law be followed... is in any way shape or form associated with torture. I would hope we hold our government accountable for it and to us.
The United States has been included among a list of countries suspected of using torture on prisoners, produced by the Canadian Foreign Ministry. (AP)
(CBS) A training manual for Canadian diplomats, produced by the Department of Foreign Affairs, includes the United States among countries which potentially use torture on prisoners.
The New York Times reported that a foreign ministry spokesperson confirmed the contents of the manual.
However, Canadian government employees struggled to assure that the attribution was not an official government position against the United States, a close ally.
Also on the torture watch list: Afghanistan, China, Egypt, Iran, Israel, Mexico, Saudi Arabia and Syria.
The ruling Conservative government has heretofore accepted assurances by the Bush administration that the United States does not engage in torture against prisoners, including detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.
A Canadian man, Omar Khadr, is currently being held at the U.S. military prison there. He is accused of a 2002 killing a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan when he was 15 years old.
Lt.-Cmdr. Bill Kuebler, Khadr's U.S. military lawyer, told Canadian broadcaster CTV that he believes the manual contradicts Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper's assurances that his client has received fair treatment.
"Omar has been there for five-and-a-half years, and at some point in the course of Omar Khadr's detention the Canadian government developed the suspicion he was being tortured and abused," Kuebler told the news program "Canada AM."
"And yet it has not acted to obtain his release from Guantanamo Bay and protect his rights, unlike every other Western country that has had its nationals detained in Guantanamo Bay."
A United States Embassy spokesperson told Reuters, “The United States does not permit, tolerate or condone torture under any circumstances.”
The manual - a PowerPoint presentation - is for training diplomats in protecting Canadian citizens who may be detained and subject to abuse in other countries.
CTV said the manual listed, among specific U.S. interrogation techniques, "forced nudity, isolation, and sleep deprivation."
The program was developed as part of a "torture awareness workshop," in response to the case of Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen, born in Syria, who was detained by the United States in 2002 under suspicion that he was tied to terrorists. Arar was transported to Syria. A Canadian inquiry later determined he was tortured there.
As I observed some time ago, if someone is a liberal they automatically believe in 'global warming'
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Originally posted by john9001
"forced nudity, isolation, and sleep deprivation."
i guess that is considered torture in Canada.
Heck, I hear that costs you $1000 with a hooker in Canaduh! ;)
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Originally posted by john9001
"forced nudity, isolation, and sleep deprivation."
i guess that is considered torture in Canada.
It could have been far worse. Its not like they were forced to listen to Celine Dion albums.
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Originally posted by MORAY37
Yep... nothing like getting a phone call from old GWB telling you to stop whatever you're doing in your own country.
Are you suggesting that Canada has no backbone or moral fiber?
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Originally posted by AKIron
Are you suggesting that Canada has no backbone or moral fiber?
Canadian military served bravely in Afghanistan.
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Originally posted by Dago
Canadian military served bravely in Afghanistan.
I'm only asking what Moray is implying?
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1. Canadian Military is still serving bravely in Afghanistan.
2. Canada has lots of backbone.
3. Canada has lots of fiber too! Shatner has me eating and pooping regular like.
4. Please forgive Moray, he actually makes some valid points occasionally, he's a Marine Biologist and believes that whale blubber must only be used for good...not evil. Sounds good enough for me.
5. I guess the main topic here is kind of moot now anyway. I won't expound on my personal opinions.
6. What you Yanks do with Celine Dionne is your problem. We pawned her off on you fair and square. Don't try giving her back, you know (first hand too!) how ugly us Canucks can get.
7. I must warn you all that the Mrs is in Bed and I am up unsupervised, with a case of beer.
8. All is lost.
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
6. What you Yanks do with Celine Dionne is your problem. We pawned her off on you fair and square. Don't try giving her back, you know (first hand too!) how ugly us Canucks can get.
How about if we threw in Pamela Anderson too? Think she's one of yours also.
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You trying to pick a fight?
I mean..dammit! You guys filled her up with plastic!
You better keep her too.
RTR
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We tried taking Shania too...but she fled to Switzerland with that South African dog-looking Mutt.
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Just don't ship Britannia Spears and her little sister north.
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Originally posted by RTR
You trying to pick a fight?
I mean..dammit! You guys filled her up with plastic!
You better keep her too.
RTR
:rofl :rofl
I agree. She lost her 'hot' long ago.:(
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Originally posted by RTR
You trying to pick a fight?
I mean..dammit! You guys filled her up with plastic!
You better keep her too.
RTR
We just did that for longevity. Even after she dies she will have roles in stop motion flicks for another century or two. Its in the contract.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
It could have been far worse. Its not like they were forced to listen to Celine Dion albums.
Even terrorists deserve better than that. :)
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Originally posted by MORAY37
Actually, those AND waterboarding appear in the US Army's Definitions of Torture. Please feel free to look it up. It's an amazing example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is saying.
Please quote the exact page in the FM 34-52 that lists these techniques as being torture.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Please quote the exact page in the FM 34-52 that lists these techniques as being torture.
Bodhi... I can't get teh pdf to transfer...but...
Page 1-8 of FM 34-52 has the requested information.
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i thought they called it "enhanced interrogation"?
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Why argue with a Canadian over torture? Their concept of torture is to drink American beer, have to dress without the use of flannel, and have someone make fun of the way they say "how a boot that? eh?" :D
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Originally posted by Dago
Why argue with a Canadian over torture? Their concept of torture is to drink American beer, have to dress without the use of flannel, and have someone make fun of the way they say "how a boot that? eh?" :D
When you belittle one people and make their opinion worth less than your own, you open up the exact same to happen to you.
And speaking of strange things about people... have you ever been around our own country? Jeez.
My new concept of torture is being abused by reading your feeble attempts at either logic or comedy... it's so poor the two are indecipherable.
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Originally posted by MORAY37
When you belittle one people and make their opinion worth less than your own, you open up the exact same to happen to you.
And speaking of strange things about people... have you ever been around our own country? Jeez.
My new concept of torture is being abused by reading your feeble attempts at either logic or comedy... it's so poor the two are indecipherable.
When you are born without a sense of humor, you become a miserable person to be around. And I am sure that is exactly what you are seeing your a stupid pain-in-the-ass on this board.
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wow, soemones got thier underwear on too tight.
I got the intended humour dago;) (yer right about the american beer, if that ain't torture, I don't know what is!).
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
wow, soemones got thier underwear on too tight.
I got the intended humour dago;) (yer right about the american beer, if that ain't torture, I don't know what is!).
RTR
Thank you.
And I loved the "Joe Canada" commercial that used to run a few years back. It was classic.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Heck, I hear that costs you $1000 with a hooker in Canaduh! ;)
It cost a lot more than that when Canadian forces to took a stand in Rwanda against Tutsi genecidal rebels..while the UN decided to pull out French,Italian,US & British peacekeepers.
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It's not as if there is just one camp!
And it's not as it's manifested that all the "POW's" are guilty.
The USA has been crossing the line it once stood for. Sadly.
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Originally posted by Angus
It's not as if there is just one camp!
And it's not as it's manifested that all the "POW's" are guilty.
The USA has been crossing the line it once stood for. Sadly.
There are 200-300 in Gitmo right now, most of whom were picked up on the battlefield--Many have been released, some of whom were simply at wrong place wrong time, some of whom have been implicated in further terrorist events---and to be POW's, they would have had to be wearing some sort of identifying uniform, as opposed to firing rpg's from behind women and children
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This isn't a new thing, the only difference between yesterday and today is the technological advances,and the ability to by pass the system.