Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Russian on January 22, 2008, 04:14:59 PM
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Does anyone know, in the know how, the time frame for a large doze of cholesterol to metabolize back to normal levels in adult male?
The reason I'm asking is if it would be viable to retake cholesterol test only after a day of original that scored what seems to be way too high score (total 284).
Thanks,
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Several factors at work, even sleep deprivation has some effect. Fasting is a must to get an accurate reading.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3230/is_8_37/ai_n15627677
284 is way high, I'd wait a few days and then follow the fasting instructions and get another test.
Don't underestimate the power of oatmeal, I droped my level from 234 to 209 in two weeks by eating oatmeal and low fat foods w/ lots of salmon and fresh veggies.
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what flatbar said
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Good article but that doesn't exactly answer my question.
I ate about 1.5 pounds of red bloody meat 2-3 days before test and scores were way too high on everything but HDL. My question is, how long will it take my body to resume equilibrium. assuming before eating entire cow, I was healthy and normal?
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Eating soluble fiber actually helps pass cholesterol out of your body (pooping). Bile contains cholesterol.
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Originally posted by Russian
Good article but that doesn't exactly answer my question.
I ate about 1.5 pounds of red bloody meat 2-3 days before test and scores were way too high on everything but HDL. My question is, how long will it take my body to resume equilibrium. assuming before eating entire cow, I was healthy and normal?
Need to be fasting 12 to 14 hours before the test. There is a lot of info at the baseops.net site under the aerospace medicine forums. IIRC, you are heading to UPT right? Just search cholesterol.
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I always fast 12 hours before taking my blood tests. Nothing but a few sips of water or the test results will be invalid. Loading up on soluble fiber will drop your levels, but it will not be an accurite reading unless you keep eating that much on a regular basis.
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Originally posted by Scatcat
Need to be fasting 12 to 14 hours before the test. There is a lot of info at the baseops.net site under the aerospace medicine forums. IIRC, you are heading to UPT right? Just search cholesterol.
Odd, I searched on main baseops forum and nothing came up. Now I searched at Aviation Medicine and a whole bunch of threads popped up. :) Thanks.
Edit: Good to know that High cholesterol will not keep me out of UPT :D That's excellent.
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I found out that triglycerides from beer, etc can screw up the test from 3 days previous to test. Mine went from 280, down to 209 in 6 months after just cutting out burgers, etc. and eating nada but oatmeal and coffee for breakfast, as well as riding bike around 6 mile loop on mountain every day after work
Went on cruise control, carefully checking everything I eat JUST for CHOLESTEROL, knowing that you can have 100 mg a day. ....I discounted where the label said...'FAT', because that is just weight, not cholesterol. WRONG! Next time the damn thing was 250. (Also couldn't ride bike any more due to torn thingie in knee) So I cut out that slice of cheese in my daily turkey sandwich, cut out the 2 cookies I got at Subway with said turkey sandwich, and checked it again 4 months later..... 290!! (I'm 6 foot, 165 lbs soaking wet) I totally discounted the part of the label that said FAT, as I'm OBVIOUSLY not fat....bad mistake.
Fat, and a few other things, become triglycerides later on and THEY are part of your total cholesterol. (My triglycerides went from 50 to 200, exaggerated by drinking 2-4 beers each of the 3 nights previous to test) So NOW, no more candy bars, no more potato chips, no more cake...and only 2 beers a night. Will take test again in a few months, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna take pills the rest of my life. Doc says riding bike prolly ok (knee be ok if I don't jog, which is moot as it is 19 degrees right now), and elliptical trainer is best--so now I do at least 30 min am and pm on elliptical thingie every day, and I have un-installed AH from hard-drive...will see
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So this blows....apparently I have a problem even though I exercise daily.
One week ago Total:300,Tryg:228,HDL:48,LDL206
Yesterday Total:286,Tryg:153,HDL:39,LDL215
Today Total:288,Tryg:130,HDL:42,LDL220
So the only normal is triglyceride and HDL.
Time to become a freaking bunny.....
Are there reliable home-testing kits available for relatively cheap cost?
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Originally posted by Russian
So this blows....apparently I have a problem even though I exercise daily.
One week ago Total:300,Tryg:228,HDL:48,LDL206
Yesterday Total:286,Tryg:153,HDL:39,LDL215
Today Total:288,Tryg:130,HDL:42,LDL220
So the only normal is triglyceride and HDL.
Time to become a freaking bunny.....
Are there reliable home-testing kits available for relatively cheap cost?
I've looked into that same thing, the home-test kits seem to be dissed by proper physicians. At any rate, there is a TON of crap that bump up triglycerides--most any carb, as I've been given to understand. Doc tells me that my deal is genetic (yours is too, likely) But, for insurance purposes, taking the @#@#$$ pills every day is JUST as bad as actually having the high cholesterol the pills negate:furious
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Actually my problem is even worse. I've been selected for pilot training by USAF and while trying to pass physical exam, they found this 'issue' :mad:
I found people with same issue as me managed to get cholesterol under sweet number by following strict diet of red rice and heavy exercise in one month. ....I think I will hate my life for next month....
I'm 6.2 and 185 pounds......feeling very healthy.....this sucks...today is my last meal; chinese food and few shots of vodka. :cry
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If you want to "crash course" drop your cholesterol to pass a flight physical, go on an oatmeal frenzy. Quaker makes Breakfast Cookies that are tasty and full of soluble fiber. Also lay off the alcohol. It can drive numbers up. The liver is the organ that removes cholesterol.
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If you were eating cheezeburgers and steak the day (week) prior, that might have biased the test. Maybe.
Try fish and other known anti-cholesterol foods for a couple of weeks and give it another try.
If you don't want to go back for an "official" test until you're ready, consider finding out how much the local clinics and hospitals will charge for single cholesterol screenings and if it's not too expensive, have yourself checked every few days or once a week or whatever until you like the numbers.
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Originally posted by eagl
If you were eating cheezeburgers and steak the day (week) prior, that might have biased the test. Maybe.
Try fish and other known anti-cholesterol foods for a couple of weeks and give it another try.
If you don't want to go back for an "official" test until you're ready, consider finding out how much the local clinics and hospitals will charge for single cholesterol screenings and if it's not too expensive, have yourself checked every few days or once a week or whatever until you like the numbers.
You just recited my plan. Hopefully, I'll see you at UPT :) Probably in half a year...
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I hope it works for you, but I got my doubts (diet and exercise alone) just based on your numbers.
Anyway, I really don't think it will hurt your pilot slot. Its okay to try diet and exercise for a while because thats what the docs will try first anyway. If you need to be on a medicine, a waiver is easy to get. I would not stress out to much about it.
BTW, don't start taking over-the-counter niacin or magic voodoo dust, cause you can't take that and fly anyway.
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I forgot to mention fish oil suppliments. Omega-3 is proven to lower cholesterol. Promise and Smart Balance margarine are loaded with Omega-3.
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By necessity, I have experience in lowering cholesterol.
I went from 255 total to 97 total in 3 months.
You don't need to do that, I think.
Here's the no sh** solution for you... well, it's the lotsa sh** solution actually.
No harmful side effects, no waivers, no nothing and it's actually what most doctors suggest for healthy internals anyway.
Metamucil.
Yep, Metamucil.
Also known as psyllium fiber..... read this. (http://www.metamucil.com/psyllium-fiber-benefits.shtml)
You can realistically expect a 7-10% drop in total cholesterol if you take 1 teaspoon in water three times a day.
You'll get it down without really changing your lifestyle at all.
If 7-10% isn't enough of a cut, I can suggest a couple of other ways to drop it some without much of a lifestyle change.
Good luck!
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Originally posted by Scatcat
I hope it works for you, but I got my doubts (diet and exercise alone) just based on your numbers.
Anyway, I really don't think it will hurt your pilot slot. Its okay to try diet and exercise for a while because thats what the docs will try first anyway. If you need to be on a medicine, a waiver is easy to get. I would not stress out to much about it.
BTW, don't start taking over-the-counter niacin or magic voodoo dust, cause you can't take that and fly anyway.
FYI,
Applicable regs AFI 48-123:
A4.29.2. Flying Classes I and IA. In addition to A.4.29.1.
A4.29.2.2. Any confirmed (repeated) serum fasting LDL cholesterol in excess of 190 mg/dl (one
or less cardiac risk factor) or 160 mg/dl (two or more cardiac risk factors) is disqualifying. Aviator
may remain on flying status for up to 1 year (from the date the LDL cholesterol was first identified
to meet the above criteria) while undergoing non-pharmacological intervention to achieve acceptable
values.
A4.29.1. Flying Classes II and III.
A4.29.1.15. Hypercholesterolemia controlled by medication other than resin binders.
There is a medicine that doesn't require a waiver called Questran.
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Originally posted by rpm
I forgot to mention fish oil suppliments. Omega-3 is proven to lower cholesterol. Promise and Smart Balance margarine are loaded with Omega-3.
I disagree, although I have seen a lot of people say this is so. I have been unable to find any reliable studies that confirm that fish oil/Omega 3 lowers LDL cholesterol. In fact the opposite may be true.
That does not mean that fish oil/ Omega 3 is not a good thing; it is. It just doesn't lower LDL.
From the National Institute of Health (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-fishoil.html)
Hypertriglyceridemia (fish oil / EPA plus DHA)
There is strong scientific evidence from human trials that omega-3 fatty acids from fish or fish oil supplements (EPA + DHA) significantly reduce blood triglyceride levels.
Benefits appear to be dose-dependent. Fish oil supplements also appear to cause small improvements in high-density lipoprotein ("good cholesterol"); however, increases (worsening) in low-density lipoprotein levels (LDL/"bad cholesterol") are also observed.
It is not clear if alpha-linolenic acid significantly affects triglyceride levels, and there is conflicting evidence in this area.The American Heart Association has published recommendations for EPA + DHA. Because of the risk of bleeding from omega-3 fatty acids, a qualified healthcare provider should be consulted prior to starting treatment with supplements.
There is growing evidence that reducing C-Reactive Protein (CRP) is beneficial towards favorable cardiovascular outcomes, although additional research is pending in this area. The data on fish oils and CRP levels is mixed.
The key part for those of us with heart disease is this (check out the Welsh DART trial): high Omega 3 intake can reduce your chance of another heart event by ~20-30%.
Secondary cardiovascular disease prevention (fish oil / EPA plus DHA)
Several well-conducted randomized controlled trials report that in people with a history of heart attack, regular consumption of oily fish or fish oil/omega-3 supplements reduces the risk of non-fatal heart attack, fatal heart attack, sudden death, and all-cause mortality (death due to any cause).
Most patients in these studies were also using conventional heart drugs, suggesting that the benefits of fish oils may add to the effects of other therapies.
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Originally posted by Russian
Does anyone know, in the know how, the time frame for a large doze of cholesterol to metabolize back to normal levels in adult male?
The reason I'm asking is if it would be viable to retake cholesterol test only after a day of original that scored what seems to be way too high score (total 284).
Thanks,
284? Bro, lipitor is your friend - ditch the sour cream.
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Fibre will take the level down, - just as said about oatmeal.
How's your blood pressure?
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Ive been doing the cholesterol battle for a few years.
We seem to have a family history of it running high. When Im not on the meds, Im anywhere between 240 and 280. Diet and exercise helped the HDL out (Im usually 53-59) but just had a tough time shoving the LDL down.
Your Trigs are way high, you want those under 150.
On the good side, you've caught this stuff early so you can do battle with it now.
As for blowing the test from eating poorly a few days before....everything Ive read says that wont usually effect the test. Based on your other 2 followups, its still high.
Usually they wait 4-6 weeks to retest.
Fish Oil helps a bit, as Toad mentioned. Ground Flaxseed (at your local GNC) added to some lowfat yogurt can help too.
The biggest thing is your diet, cut the fats. If you are still high despite those changes, welcome to the world of statins :) Im on pravastatin, a generic form of Pravachol. Its brought me down to 209 (HDL 59, Trigs 99)
Im still working to get results like Toad ;)
Some of the other ideas posted above are good. Go lean on the meats.
Cholesterol is one phase of the battle, hows your blood sugar and blood pressure?
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Toad, fish oil info from the MayoClinic
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fish-oil/NS_patient-fishoil
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Yep, LP, the Mayo Clinic agrees with the NIH. Fish Oil/ Omega 3 may help boost your good HDL but it also may increase your bad LDL. Not something Russian would want to do unless he has a previous history of serious heart disease; then the reduced risk of MI is worth the slight boost in LDL.
Mayo:
Hypertriglyceridemia (fish oil / EPA plus DHA)
Fish oil supplements also appear to cause small improvements in high-density lipoprotein ("good cholesterol") by 1-3%.
However, increases (worsening) in low-density lipoprotein levels (LDL/"bad cholesterol") by 5-10% are also observed. Therefore, for individuals with high blood levels of total cholesterol or low-density lipoprotein, significant improvements will likely not be seen, and a different treatment should be selected.
It is not clear if alpha-linolenic acid significantly affects triglyceride levels, and there is conflicting evidence in this area.
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Originally posted by Toad
Yep, LP, the Mayo Clinic agrees with the NIH. Fish Oil/ Omega 3 may help boost your good HDL but it also may increase your bad LDL. Not something Russian would want to do unless he has a previous history of serious heart disease; then the reduced risk of MI is worth the slight boost in LDL.
Correct, my numbers for HDL and Trigly are good enough for the airforce. My pressure is also fine....
Thanks guys...
I'm going to switch my diet to 'red rice', if I can find it around here, salads and nuts. I don't want to start eating medicine just yet.. motivation is strong since I can almost see finish line.
For exercise, my friend suggested to run 2.5 miles in the morning and evening.
Thanks for the help, lads. I appreciate it very much.
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I think you want red yeast rice capsules. You can pick it up at any decent health food store. You'll probably have to guesstimate how much to take but you'll figure it out over time.
This stuff is generally touted as an alternative to the statins. It may be; I know people that swear by it. So far, I haven't tried it; I just stuck with the statins because they have other benefits for people with heart disease that I have not as yet heard of as benefits of the rry.
From the NIH site linked previously, on red yeast rice. They give it an A for lowering cholesterol, so it might be worth a shot since you won't technically be on a prescription drug when the AF asks.
High cholesterol
Since the 1970s, human studies have reported that red yeast lowers blood levels of total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein/LDL ("bad cholesterol"), and triglyceride levels.Other products containing red yeast rice extract can still be purchased, mostly over the Internet. However, these products may not be standardized, and effects are not predictable. For lowering cholesterol, there is better evidence for using prescription drugs such as lovastatin. Grade A.
Coronary heart disease
Preliminary evidence shows that taking Monascus purpureus by mouth may result in cardiovascular benefits and improve blood flow. Additional study is needed before a firm recommendation can be made. Grade C
Diabetes
Early human evidence suggests the potential for benefits in diabetics. Additional study is needed before a firm recommendation can be made. Grade C.
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Russian, I tanked my total cholesterol in 90 days on a severe vegetarian diet that avoided ALL fat and almost ALL foods that contained any cholesterol.
In short, if it had fat or cholesterol in it, I didn't eat it. Dropped ~155 points in 90 days, probably less time than that. I just had the tests 90 days apart.
You probably don't have to take that drastic an approach; my excuse is that I was scared shirtless at the time. Right now my C numbers are @ 120-130 and I'm not on the severe program. They actually told me 97 was too low, to pick it up some.
If you are interested, my doctor had me write out my program on how I did it. I have it as a Word file. I'd be happy to send it along if you want to look it over. Send me a PM if you want it.
Good luck! Have fun in UPT. If you're ready for the experience, you'll have a blast. Believe it or not AH will help you.
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Drink pomegranate juice too!
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Originally posted by LePaul
Drink pomegranate juice too!
I'll search for that in local store...
What about a glass of red wine? any issues with that?
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Wine is fine. So is a tad of Schnapps!
Water is always good in some quantity, - think of your blood system as a system of hydraulics, - which it basically is! If you have a thicker liquid, then the pressure is higher, - dead simple.
And BTW, fish fat is ok. (so is actually horse and whale fat, but not everybody has what I do in the freezer :D)
And stay away from transfat as well as margerine!
Just a change of menu, and you'll be just fine!
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Originally posted by Angus
Wine is fine. So is a tad of Schnapps!
Water is always good in some quantity, - think of your blood system as a system of hydraulics, - which it basically is! If you have a thicker liquid, then the pressure is higher, - dead simple.
And BTW, fish fat is ok. (so is actually horse and whale fat, but not everybody has what I do in the freezer :D)
And stay away from transfat as well as margerine!
Just a change of menu, and you'll be just fine!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030909070840.htm
Yep, so I can drink my evening glass. Good.
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How old are you, Russian? Just curious...I was tested at age 21 in the ANG. For years, just kinda knew it was high and ignored it. It wasnt until I hit 30 that my Dr felt I should do more about it. Working at a hospital as I do now...seeing what I do...I'm some glad I started when I did rather than ignored it. You'd be in awe how many chest pain admissions we get that are young. Yikes.
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Originally posted by Russian
I'll search for that in local store...
What about a glass of red wine? any issues with that?
Any store with a decent produce section should stock "Wonderful POM". It's pure pomegranate juice. They also have a line of green tea/pomegranate juice drink.
Just remember, your liver burns cholesterol. Anything you can use to filter it out of your diet (soluble fiber) will reduce the amount of cholesterol your liver has to work on and reduce any increase to your bloodstream. Removing it from your bloodstream is another thing. That's where the Omega-3 comes in. It assists your liver in burning off the cholesterol.
Now, as Toad mentioned it may not help burn the type of cholesterol you need help with. BUT, overall it does lower total numbers. Your only other alternative is to use statins.
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I saw this article today...lots of good info here too:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/01/23/healthmag.cholesterol/index.html?eref=rss_health
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Originally posted by LePaul
I saw this article today...lots of good info here too:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/01/23/healthmag.cholesterol/index.html?eref=rss_health
Thanks for the article...although I'm pretty sure I'm a male ;)
(I'm 26)
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Originally posted by rpm
Now, as Toad mentioned it may not help burn the type of cholesterol you need help with. BUT, overall it does lower total numbers.
RPM, can you link me to a study that shows that?
I have made a rather serious study of this issue and I can't find anything that supports that idea.
As mentioned, it probably increases HDL, which is a good thing so they say, but it that is an increase in total cholesterol nonetheless.
As also mentioned it increases LDL, which is a bad thing, and which is another increase.
That's and increase in HDL and an increase in LDL, both of which will increase your total cholestrol. Since the AF is only looking at total, both of those conditions are bad for Russian's future as a pilot.
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Just had my bloodwork from yesterday come in...
1/28/08 Total: 199 LDL: 127 HDL: 48 TG: 123
So, one goal met...under 200 with minimal (10mg Pravachol) medication.
Now that its "normal", I'm certain they will lower the standard again on me!
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LOL...russian is tall and skinny and in great shape. I can't imagine that there is anything wrong with him.
do you have medical insurance russian? if you do.. next time you go in pay cash and tell em you lost your job and have no insurance.. I bet you will check out fine then.
lazs
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So the AF won't let you fly if your cholesterol is too high? How high is too high?
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I can tell you, from working at the hospital, that its not just the fat folks in the ER complaining of chest pain. Its really an eye opener when you see guys in their early 30s who discover they've been dragging some really high numbers.
So dont let skinny/tall make you think it can't be...
Know your numbers...cholesterol, blood pressure and blood sugar.
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So 5 days of diet and exercise gave me the following; Total 202, Trig 122, HDL 39, LDL 138.
I'm ecstatic :)
The magic number is 200 in total. :D
:cool: :p
(The only worry now....maybe VA made an error since drop from 300 to 200 in 5 days is nearly impossible....I think I'll stay on this diet for another week or so)
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That's a pretty remarkable drop.