Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 68bigtex on January 22, 2008, 09:47:18 PM
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Some of you my take this as a whine, a cry or however you want to put it, but this is something I have been observing in the game for quite sometime now. I have been playing this game since August 2002. When I was learning to play I was coached by folks in the game without a single “Go Somewhere Else”, “Why don’t you ask someone else”, no “STUPID NOOB” comments and defiantly no answer to a question was “ALT F4”. The first time I played the game after downloading it I got so frustrated I quit for a week because I didn’t want to bother anyone playing the game to ask for help, but as soon as I went back and asked for help everyone was more than happy to help someone joining their hobby. Now a day if someone asks for help they get jumped on like food to a bunch of starved jackals.
The lack of respect to one another in the boards is unbelievable. As a lot of people have seen in a recent post, a member of the community was criticized about a post where he wanted to speak a piece about his late mother whom had just passed, in my mind no matter where you post it, a post like that is due the utmost respect. Any other time you may say something about where a topic is posted, however the death of a loved one, come on, show a little compassion. This is not the only time someone has been disrespected in the boards and I kow it wont be the last. There are many others but this was the freshest incident in my mind.
Channel 200 is a joke. I stopped tuning to it because of the garbage and blatant disrespect to each other and to the fun of the game. I understand we have a lot of the younger generation who bring negatives, but it is our duty to bring it to there attention of those involved that this is a game. To me, this is a hobby, I have a wife in college full time, a 4month old daughter and I work a full time job plus over time. I know a lot of other people in the game have the same or more obligations than I do that feel the same way. I play when I can! In the hour it takes my wife to walk the dogs when my daughter is asleep, on squad night when my wife doesn’t have homework to do and the baby is asleep or being entertained by her. I know I am not the only one who has to work around “real life” to enjoy my hobby, but why do the majority of the players in the game have to put up with the minorities disrespectfulness? Or is the question, Why DOES the majority of the players put up with the minority disrespectfulness? I know this is a long post but just something I thought I would bring up.
Respectfully,
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It's good it's been brought up but it's difficult well...almost impossible to change another's character.
Hopefully more people read this; I'm a strong supporter of the values behind your post :aok
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Well put, "S" to you sir, I'm not sure there is an answer to your questions tho.
The thread you are refering to, well,,,, that dude is a wack job.
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What happened to me last week was the most amazing thing that has happened to date.
This Community started to fracture about 3 years ago.
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What was a small community of AW and WB dweebs in their own private paradise is now a very large community where the old timers are a minority. There is no mechanism to police, and no reason to modify behavior. That's pretty much it, we just became too large a group for simple peer pressure to have any real effect on behavior.
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bigtex
Overpopulation it is a destructive force in every environment. Wish I had the answer.
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Hence the reason for the arena split. The problem is that the arena format they use is a matter of two identical arena's with the status quo, and 2 arenas with limited choices. I said from the get go that I didn't think the result would be effective. As long as there are arena's with unlimited planesets, that's where the herd will be.
The only way to have smaller sub-communities is for every arena to have its own personality, which means no unlimited planeset arena unfortunately. Something to make an arena a home for squads. Early, Mid, and something like PTO, ETO, or even ETO west and east would do that. I can just imagine the cries if anything like that were ever done.
Like was said. Too many numbers and too much anonymity, for community policing/peer pressure to be effective. That, and methinks the playerbase is getting younger than it has historically been.
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Originally posted by Murdr
That, and methinks the playerbase is getting younger than it has historically been.
I'm not sure it's the youngsters who are the most recent problems.
- oldman
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Your post is good , and I'm in agreement with you . respect is something that is not learned by everyone , and as sad to say as it is , is probably not going to change much . however as individuals and adults we can still behave as expected and do the right thing . I also recieved alot of help from very nice people on all sides of this game and I thank all of you for your kindness in putting up with me when I started . Kindness will hopefully rub off from one person to another and maybe a new trend will start , so you may possibly be suprised one day .:D
As Always A Nutte:aok
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Originally posted by 68bigtex
but it is our duty to bring it to there attention of those involved that this is a game.
Duty-game, game-duty... Oxymoron
The only thing you're obliged in this game, is paying your $14.95 and play by the rules HTC set forth. All other goodies are icing on the cake.
Don't expect everyone to take online game as serious as you do, as such, do not demand moral obedience. It has nothing to do with respect.
In online game, respect is earned, it can not be forced.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
What happened to me last week was the most amazing thing that has happened to date.
This Community started to fracture about 3 years ago.
Do tell? Shoot me a PM if you dont mind.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Duty-game, game-duty... Oxymoron
The only thing you're obliged in this game, is paying your $14.95 and play by the rules HTC set forth. All other goodies are icing on the cake.
Don't expect everyone to take online game as serious as you do, as such, do not demand moral obedience. It has nothing to do with respect.
In online game, respect is earned, it can not be forced.
Earned in a game? Respect is due as a common courtesy to everone. Tell me the why the minority talks to the the majority with such disrespect. I do not demand obedience from anyone. <> Thanks for you input
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Yep, the lack of civility and any meager form of respect in game and on the boards is getting very tiring.
If only there was a an arena that muted and then ejected players who used profane and obnoxious language...
Look at me!!! I'm 14 and can swear!!! SWEET!!! Perhaps we need an arena for just such individuals. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by 68bigtex
Respect is due as a common courtesy to everone.
Certain etiquette is required, by the law, HTC and the community. Anything beyond that is a choice.
Originally posted by 68bigtex
Tell me the why the minority talks to the the majority with such disrespect.
If I'd know that I'd be rich.
Originally posted by 68bigtex
I do not demand obedience from anyone.
Demanding, not only to be passionate but also about what and the way I suppose to be passionate IS demanding moral obedience. Unless you hold patent on morals, don't go there
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What happened to me last week was the most amazing thing that has happened to date.
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What happened to you last week?
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Certain etiquette is required, by the law, HTC and the community.
That sums up the initial post. Who rattled your cage? Do you always take collective pronouns personally?
Originally posted by 2bighorn
Demanding, not only to be passionate but also about what and the way I suppose to be passionate IS demanding moral obedience. Unless you hold patent on morals, don't go there
Nobody demanded anything of YOU. YOU are the one jumping in here and demanding the behavior YOU want from another person.
It's a good counter point to the idea of the decline of civility in the community though.
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I think what was referred to in the initial post is not truly respect, but rather just being decent, or civil. There seems to be a lot of juxtaposing of those terms around here.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
What happened to me last week was the most amazing thing that has happened to date.
This Community started to fracture about 3 years ago.
Mash's right-Thing's have definetely changed insofar as the way people treat each other.
BTW, Mash, if you get a chance, clean out your P.M. box-I tried to send you one, it said you were full.
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Originally posted by Murdr
Who rattled your cage?
No worries, I wasn't all that serious...
Anyways, there were plenty of threads on this matter. It's pretty much the same it has been, just more of it...
Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think what was referred to in the initial post is not truly respect, but rather just being decent, or civil. There seems to be a lot of juxtaposing of those terms around here.
Point taken.
In that case your first answer pretty much tells what is needed to know.
As to the solution, as Murdr already mentioned, arena split was a good try, but due to whining HTC raised the caps considerably.
Send all new players in TA, few days mandatory boot camp before they gain access to other arenas. It won't change much, but who knows...
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Not to rain on the parade of doom and gloom, but I do believe there is a core group of players that do understand it's a game and that common courtesy is a reasonable thing to expect.
I know when I get time to fly there are all kinds of good folks on all sides just enjoying the flying, and the company. Will there always be mouths and folks who just don't get it? Sure. That's not changed in the 10+ years I've flown online. Bigger commuity, more of em i suppose, but also more good people too.
In the end the only thing we can control is what we bring to the game and the community. No one can make me lose my cool and act up in the game but me. It's the joy of having a choice in what I say on vox or what I type.
:aok
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
What was a small community of AW and WB dweebs in their own private paradise is now a very large community where the old timers are a minority. There is no mechanism to police, and no reason to modify behavior. That's pretty much it, we just became too large a group for simple peer pressure to have any real effect on behavior.
lol new people learn it from those here long time...........
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About the whole Disrespect thing, I agree but then I dont agree on it at all.
First off this is a video game, where kids and adults play, split rather even, with alot of forum trolls that will trash any forum post. Being a video game, saying a loved one died, is most likely going to draw good and bad into it simply because someone can make a fake account and trash that person for no reason other then good laugh. This wouldn't be the only forums people have posted personal things, But I do thing some posts that are personal on here need to be left in private or in the "Bag" being your squad channels only or PM friends. Honestly I think its admorable you'd post something personal here, but I dont think the community is that respectful or should some squeakers put it *care* for it. However this is a mixed community which is a rare quality, back in counterstrike days you couldn't post about your pet passing on without 200 slashing you.
Anyhow I think its up to one to judge if they really want to post something like this thats all.
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I agree with Adonai and a few others.
I would never post anything super personal on a board like this for the simple reason that it is a game forum after all, and it is inevitable that some butt nugget is gonna come along and trash it. It is likely to happen on ANY game forum, and i have played many online games over the years and frequented many game forums, these clowns exist everywhere, not just here.
Sorry for the loss of your mom, it's a hard thing to deal with the loss of anyone close to you.
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Would definally be nice to post something like that and not have trolls to deal with, for sure if anything like that was said in person would be different out come.
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Darn..was hoping for an Otis Redding thread.:(
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I like Aretha's rendition better :)
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While I DO agree with much that was posted, I must add that when I asked a question about "how do I" when I first stated flying AirWarrior back in 1996, I fell prey to the "alt f/4" trick.
People have been doing that for decades now.
All in all I don't think the community has changed THAT much over the years. It is just much LARGER, and it's flaws are more apparent.
We have always had mouthy idiots.
I can recall many players 10+ years ago that loved nothing more than to upset as many players in the game as they could.
I also don't think the average age of the player base has changed that much either. I DO think it's a lot less "mature" though. The "post a picture" threads always blow me away when I find out a player I would have SWORN was 18-24yrs old from how they act was actually 40+ yrs old.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Mash's right-Thing's have definetely changed insofar as the way people treat each other.
BTW, Mash, if you get a chance, clean out your P.M. box-I tried to send you one, it said you were full.
Fire it off. PM's cleared.
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Interesting threads gents !
Only been playing for 16mths and l already noticed its always the same players causing Sh__t
Anyone they come accross, in flight or simply making comments in this forum, all hell breaks lose :(
Now I hear about'em but try not to judge anyone UNTIL I encounter these individuals. And YES, rhumors always has a certain % of truth. When you see what they write and how they behave in the game, they lack of respect:(
Some players are making some part of this game unpleasant.
Always the same guys stiring up the pot:lol
I guess the best way to stay out is to TUNE OUT !(ch 200 & squelch)
Phil / OPP7755:aok
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Let's all get along.... we should up from a CV in a good seaplane... say a P-40 with torps taped on and go drop them on the closest town. We'll all be leet and equal. I have dibbs on the theater! I like to see the popcorn poping after a good hit.
PS do not forget your knife...... that duct tape is tough stuff.
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It really amazes me when I see what people type to others or say over vox in game. If these people were on the street and were that disrespectful and rude there would be alot of tardlets walking around with black eyes and knotted up cabages from the attitude adjustments they had received.
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Respect in the game, and respect on the boards are two totally different things.
In the game I think there should be a certain level of respect displayed to each other. The mods are there....sometimes... to try and keep the peace, but I think there are a couple problems with them. There are not enough of them. Do we need to be baby sat 24/7? right now I'd have to say yes. Once things got back under control, most likely not.
To get thing under control there are two things needed from the mods. First, they have to be impartial. To many times I've seen one guy get mutted, and the other side continue on causing trouble. The second, they have to be willing to Piss "customers" off. This is something HTC would have to approve. If someone is continues to cause trouble the mod should be able to repeatedly boot someone to the point of suspending their account. Some 'bad apples" just aren't worth $15 a month.
If the penalty is strong enough, and given out consistently eventually people, even the kids, would learn what is acceptable.
The message boards are another problem. It is way to easy to hide behind a shade. If it were me, I'd wipe the membership clean and have everyone subscribe with their Call sign as there ID. This way people could be held "accountable" for their conduct. If you are not a subscriber to the game and there fore don't have an ID you would be locked out from ALL threads except one for people asking about the game.
Strict? maybe, but how many people leave the game due to running into the same "A" holes night after night? How many more people would sign up after their 2 weeks if there wasn't any "crap" spilling over on 200?
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Originally posted by acfireguy26
It really amazes me when I see what people type to others or say over vox in game. If these people were on the street and were that disrespectful and rude there would be alot of tardlets walking around with black eyes and knotted up cabages from the attitude adjustments they had received.
Ya know, that's what I was thinking.
Though early on in the game I tended to talk too much trash (cause I had nothing else), I realized that though some trash talking was expected, you still had to be respectful ("yo mama..." jokes aren't good).
I rethought my actions and decided I would act as if I was playing the game of Risk with someone. Sure bravado and chest thumping is ok, but getting personal isn't and could lead to physical contact.
I have have wished many times I could be face to face with some of these clowns (esp the Ykdork guy). I am guessing they would be talking so much trash then as they do through the protection of the internet..
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I am very cautious of the term "respect".
Firstly I have to note that respect as oft used in the US is totally different from the one that this English boy was taught, but even then the term in the UK is now used quite differently to the extent that we have a political party of various extreme views called "Respect".
Respect as an honorific should be highly valued IMO and not cast about lightly or even granted to (or removed from) a generality or massed group of individuals due to some percieved idea of what they are or how powerfull they may be.
If I respect some one I have come to know them first.
Certainly no one has the right (IMO) to demand respect.
All very vague stuff so lets move onto "consideration"
Well there is some out of date concept!!!! I can see most readers wondering where this guy came from? I mean we dont talk about this stuff any more do we ?........... we are much meaner, leaner, faster, folk now to concern our selves with such irrelvances as consideration.
We dont of course have to be "nice soldiers" (tm ACCS) all the time. We can pursue the full gambit of banter , p taking and general derisery coments given and recieved in the spirit of comeradry that we may all aspire to share.
However I believe we can even than be considerate of how others may take what we type and whether it is actually appropriate in the circumstances. This does not mean that we have to live to rules of considerate behaviour......rules are inconsiderate IMO. What it means is we apply consideration to what we do.
What we do see is the average age of player steadily getting younger and we do have a growing share of "squeakers" playing the game. These less mature players show the full range of social maturity from OK young people to idiots who have yet to inter act out side the play ground.........
Further we have our share of so called adults who seem to be trapped in the mentality of their school play ground and have morphed this view of life into every thing else they seem to participate in. This form of fellow player also has increased access to games such as AH.
So our community changes............ not with time, but over time due to increased access from other sectors of society and its various levels of maturity.
But a community it is.. and the best way to change it or preserve it is by example.
We all do inappropriate stuff from time to time, none of us can demand respect but maybe we can give by being considerate.
"ask not" etc etc
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Tilt,
I agree but....
Not to split hairs, the word that comes to my mind is "civility". In a competitive environment I feel courtesy as literally defined is a bit of a luxury.
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Originally posted by Thruster
Tilt,
I agree but....
Not to split hairs, the word that comes to my mind is "civility". In a competitive environment I feel courtesy as literally defined is a bit of a luxury.
Well yes it is, good manners, courtesy, civility are all social strictures IMO.
There is no reason to deny them or enforce them they are gifted from the user and they can be subject to different definitions of appropriateness or even application.
They are forms of behaviour that may be subject to a rule set.
My point is that we do not have to subject our behaviour to rule sets if we are considerate of others in what we say and do. We merely have to say to our selves "will our actions cause inappropriate harm or offence" and be satisfied with the answer whilst being ready to change if it turns out we reached the wrong answer.
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My apologies, I suffer from the occasional tendency towards an odd kind of dyslexia where I see a word and somehow transpose another in it's place. Usually when I'm trying to point out some barely significant detail.
You never mentioned courtesy, and your point about the drift in the utility of certain terms is right on.
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Originally posted by Tilt
My point is that we do not have to subject our behaviour to rule sets if we are considerate of others in what we say and do. We merely have to say to our selves "will our actions cause inappropriate harm or offence" and be satisfied with the answer whilst being ready to change if it turns out we reached the wrong answer.
Unfortunately some people aren't taught what is "inappropriate harm or offence". Should we have to be the teachers? We might
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Originally posted by Tilt
My point is that we do not have to subject our behaviour to rule sets if we are considerate of others in what we say and do. We merely have to say to our selves "will our actions cause inappropriate harm or offence" and be satisfied with the answer whilst being ready to change if it turns out we reached the wrong answer.
Originally posted by The Fugitive
Unfortunately some people aren't taught what is "inappropriate harm or offence". Should we have to be the teachers? We might
Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Perhaps we should make some people repeat the low level schooling.
HiTech
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internet communication has a odd way of perverting normal human behavior. This board is ripe with examples but I am sure there are thousands of others just like it.
No doubt there is a clinical explanation for it, probably has alot to do with the lack of any real consequences for abhorrent behavior.
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Unfortunately, it does fall on those of us that have been in the game to control ourselves as well as try to help the newbs as a lot of the nasty posts are either replies to requests for help, or replies from the newbs thanking us for behaving like "A" holes.
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So I assume everybody would rather I had towed the line and given a disingenuous "Sorry".
I wonder if he also went to everyone of his neighbors and coworkers and told them he wouldn't be around for a while because of his mother.
Respect is a two way street. I don't feel these boards should be used for a personal diary. Has anyone considered respecting others before they choose to post something.
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It's been my experience (with the few exceptions), you get pretty much what you give.
The others are just ignored.
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Originally posted by Yknurd
So I assume everybody would rather I had towed the line and given a disingenuous "Sorry".
Nope...you could have just as easily closed the thread and kept your thoughts to yourself.:aok
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Do we need to be baby sat 24/7? right now I'd have to say yes. Once things got back under control, most likely not.
If the penalty is strong enough, and given out consistently eventually people, even the kids, would learn what is acceptable.
If it were me, I'd wipe the membership clean and have everyone subscribe with their Call sign as there ID. This way people could be held "accountable" for their conduct.
Strict? maybe, but how many people leave the game due to running into the same "A" holes night after night? How many more people would sign up after their 2 weeks if there wasn't any "crap" spilling over on 200?
I couldn't agree more with the above comments by The Fugitive.
I know this will go down like a lead balloon but I'll say it anyway:-
I play iL2 as well as AH and in iL2 the majority play in squads - I know not all, but most.
The squads self monitor each other for behavior while online. It's very rare to see or hear insults. One reason, we do not have a ch200 to abuse.
Maybe we should have a squad only arena in here where you do register your call-sign to get in or have to be invited in as a solo player by a squad. Like the way you have to invite someone on board your plane.
The arena could be set up for squad play and missions.
Okay! Now stand by for the abuse for suggesting such a thing :-)
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would rather I had towed the line and given a disingenuous "Sorry".
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Is your heart so damaged and cold that you cannot feel sorry and pass along your regrets when someone loses one of their parents?
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Originally posted by Phil
Always the same guys stiring up the pot:lol
Phil / OPP7755:aok [/B]
or some guys like VansCrew that SMOKE pot.
Anyhow I tend to be little rowdy on 200 for kicks sometimes, mainly just for kicks. This is a game remember that and I do respect people around me esp elders (Hello Shawk Sir) anyhow kids like Dextur and Axer arn't showing "Younger" means they are the problem, I find both these kids to be superb pilots and pretty mature, same For VansCrew as well as RYNO From Screaming devils, all 4 are under 18 and proved time and time again they are just kids having fun at a game.
Makes you wonder, why would someone come on a forum to insult someone after a loved one died? I can understand a "kid" Fabricated a death once, but thats one in I dont know how many. Anyhow enough on this topic, Anything said really isn't going to change ones causing problems.
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Originally posted by hrdhrd
I couldn't agree more with the above comments by The Fugitive.
I know this will go down like a lead balloon but I'll say it anyway:-
I play iL2 as well as AH and in iL2 the majority play in squads - I know not all, but most.
The squads self monitor each other for behavior while online. It's very rare to see or hear insults. One reason, we do not have a ch200 to abuse.
Maybe we should have a squad only arena in here where you do register your call-sign to get in or have to be invited in as a solo player by a squad. Like the way you have to invite someone on board your plane.
The arena could be set up for squad play and missions.
Okay! Now stand by for the abuse for suggesting such a thing :-)
Actually hrdhrd there is an arena called Special Events Arena that hosts Squad ops and other structured events. Civil behavior is a requirement and things are much more fun in there.
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Originally posted by Stampf
It's been my experience (with the few exceptions), you get pretty much what you give.
The others are just ignored.
Amen to that.
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AH has changed, in the old days vets used to show the rank and file within AH the way to act, people listened and respected them,
Those vets are gone and instead are replaced by channel 200 'I PWNZ U' individuals that are more interested in having their names on the score board than giving anything back to AH.
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Respect is something thats earned and not given lightly. Remembering back to when i started i played for about 3mths and then i asked on country channel if any squads were recruiting and all i got back in return were smart comments and rude statements. I got mad switched countries and asked the same question got picked up by Redrusky aka redroses. After a couple of squads crashed and burned i helped start up with the Aces and 8's and one of the first rules we instated was no trash talk on 200. I understand that im only human and this game gets the best of me sometimes, but i try to uphold our squad motto "Honor, Respect, Teamwork". I have a lot of respect for a lot of people in here and i try to contribute to the community as much as it has to me.
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68bigtex...
I'm curious, how long have you been doing this? I would hazard to guess that it's not a very long time...relatively speaking. This stuff has been going on since the Al Gore created the internet. The same "disrespect" you are complaining about was evident 17 years ago (when I started doing this stuff) in Air Warrior, both the game and the boards.
Bottom line, if you stick your head up above the crowd....someone will hammer it back down. Yes, it has something to do with "RESPECT". No one gets automatic respect. If you enter these virtual halls expecting respect by virtue of the fact that you are a decent human being, you are in for a disappointment.
As for 'diss'in' noobs, the one's that have done the game the courtesy of bothering to read the available information get plenty of respect and offers of assistance. It is the ones that can't be bother to RTFM that catch the most crap and they deserve it because the disrespect the players in the game by demanding that those players explain what they can't be bothered to find out for themselves.
In my experience, those that respect others and earn the respect of others do just fine here. Those that don't, will be ostracized (meaning they will catch more than their ration of crap).
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As for 'diss'in' noobs, the one's that have done the game the courtesy of bothering to read the available information get plenty of respect and offers of assistance. It is the ones that can't be bother to RTFM that catch the most crap and they deserve it because the disrespect the players in the game by demanding that those players explain what they can't be bothered to find out for themselves.
NoBaddy, somewhere in here, I heard someone compare this community with that of Half-life and Counterstrike. Which is what it seems' to be, anymore. It is not the old flight-sim community it used to be-Mainly people who were aviation buffs already, or took a great interest in history. Now, it's being eclipsed by the 'gamer' generation. It's like the transformation of hot rodding; Ten or fifteen years' ago, people showed up to the drive-in in their mid-'60's Chevelle's, Camaro's, GTO's, Mustangs, Firebirds, and other '60's musclecars. They listened to their CCR, or Lynrd Skynrd, or Journey, or even '80's pop, Johnny Cash...
Now they drive up in their Honda Civics, Mitsubishi Eclipses', or whatever over-winged Fart-can exhaust LED lights-like-a-christmas-tree rice burner ride they prefer. They blast their Hip-Hop music...However, they want to play the same game as the older crowd. The older guys, who used to break the same laws, street-racing their older muscle cars, were just as guilty of breaking laws' as the younger kids' in their Ricers. They just went about it a different way. Same thing with the AH community today.
Oh, gamers' are a little more aligned than the example I posted. But their is a difference. And it get's bigger all the time. The real limiting factor in this, is how many of the older sticks' finally get fed up and hang up their joysticks', as opposed to staying on, and trying to pass down the values' that were instilled in them so long ago.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
The real limiting factor in this, is how many of the older sticks' finally get fed up and hang up their joysticks', as opposed to staying on, and trying to pass down the values' that were instilled in them so long ago.
Well, I've been passing it on for many years now (first in AW and now here). I've made a special effort with the arena split to do so. There are a number of "newer" folks that I have been sharing my limited knowledge with. The only thing I ever ask of any of them is that they pay it forward as well.
BTW, what you are talking about is the reason HT split the arenas in the first place.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
BTW, what you are talking about is the reason HT split the arenas in the first place.
Amen to that ... The arena split is probably the decision HT and crew have made since I have played this game.
Mid-War, even with it's "lower" numbers, reminds me of AH in days past. Yes it has it moments with hot heads, but overall, the regulars in that arena have kept it a pretty civil community and a joy to fly and fight in.
If MW were to ever digress to the cesspool level that I see in LW, I would probably be forced to "hang it up".
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Manners and etiquette have degraded in the general population and this game is but a subset. You see it with cell phones in restaurants, strangers on a plane, and all online games.
We have:
The people who won't return a salute, even after a hard fought a2a battle. With some it doesn't matter who shot who down, they don't return any of them.
The people who deack a base just to circle and pick off uppers with their tempest, and send each a salute as they do so.
The people who fly in a gang just out of ack range (town untouched) then snivel about being HO'd on 200 when the 1 guy who opposes them shoots one of them down.
The people who ditch or crash out of range so you won't know who they are.
The people who hit alt-f4 when they get into a fix
The people who PM you with insults when you shoot them down
The people who have a million excuses on 200 for why they got shot down
The people who seem to think that everyone in a furball should know that a certain plane is "theirs" and not to be engaged by someone else.
The people who don't seem to realize we don't all have perfect SA in a furball, and can't see a missing wing when we're pulling a hard lead turn. {Heck sometimes we're shooting out front of plane we can't even see, and guessing where he is} They immediately scream about shooting at their downed plane.
The people who continue to follow a downed plane all the way to the ground blasting away (the plane shot down by someone else) [One guy last night told me he was "returning the favor" because I'd apparently shot down a spit he was trying to kill earlier - the spit was in perfect flying shape when he flew in front of me]
Then there are the guys who seem to purposefully force killshoots. They are also the guys who will get behind you and give you a check six so they can get by and kill the guy you're after.
One guy last week made some comment about me shooting the flaming N1k he'd gunned. He seemed oblivious to the fact the N1k was was still flying and trying to kill an M-3 and some troops in the air over the town. We're all supposed to let that happen to keep him from losing his kill.
On and on and on . . . .
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Originally posted by hitech
Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Perhaps we should make some people repeat the low level schooling.
HiTech
What's funny about this quote is early this morning while replying to a now locked thread, I was using quotes from that book.
I think it needs to be required reading.
(I deleted my post 5min after typing it. the whole "pearls and swine" bit)
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Ya forgot one shiningpath...
*The Me262 tard who thinks it's REALLY FUNNY when your whacking buffs to fly directly through you and you end up dying in a kill-shooter and he steals your kill.
Happened again today.
No names will be named.
Yes. I don't know if "respect" is the right word, but simple courtesy and manners in American Society are pretty much dead.
People won't even use the basic manners unless they want something from you.
The drivers I have seen in AR, TX, TN, KY, OH, NC, MS, AL, GA, and OK seem to have never heard of manners or courtesy.
Same as in the game.
68ROX
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The commercials on the military channel appear to be working. We have a lot of new players showing up daily. But there is a limit to what you can do on country channel! 3 new players / hour asking about how to turn on their engine or how to make their tank go. The incidence of "alt-F4" responses is appalling. We try to steer them to the TA, but you should really log into the TA some time to see just what the new player really finds when he gets there.
When I first joined AHII I think it was Casca? that took me me into the tower somewhere and helped me get my VOX working. Then he took me on a bomber flight to teach me what to do from take off thru calibration, bomb drop, and landing. It was someone in "Most Wanted" because that was my first squad. If I'm getting the name wrong I'm sorry -- it was a long time ago.
Too bad we don't have more people around like that these days. I've hopped into the TA several times over the last year to try and help some new guys get started. Nobody has ever responded to my offers. I've offered to give bombing or dive bombing lessons in the MA, few ever respond. I guess I should just keep at it, maybe a couple of guys will take me up on it.
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I can't even bring myself to read all the posts in this thread.
It's no different now than it's been for the last 11+ years I've been playing these games. No difference. None. Zip.
There's always been the big mouths, the dweebs, the spies, the cheats, the... Always been there, always will be.
Fortunately, they've always been, and remain, the minority, and most of them don't stick around long.
One last thing, don't mistake frustration for lack of respect. It happens to most of us at some time or another.
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Originally posted by 68bigtex
Why DOES the majority of the players put up with the minority disrespectfulness? I know this is a long post but just something I thought I would bring up.
Respectfully,
Generally it's the same half dozen players or so (everyone knows who they are) that do the most constant senseless and abusive yapping, most just ignore them. You'll also find that a good majority have them squelched so their audience is pretty small.
...-Gixer
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One word:
Permasquelch.
We needs it.
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Originally posted by JB73
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:rofl :rofl :rofl LMFAO x10000000000000...
:aok :aok
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Respect in the game, and respect on the boards are two totally different things.
In the game I think there should be a certain level of respect displayed to each other. The mods are there....sometimes... to try and keep the peace, but I think there are a couple problems with them. There are not enough of them. Do we need to be baby sat 24/7? right now I'd have to say yes. Once things got back under control, most likely not.
To get thing under control there are two things needed from the mods. First, they have to be impartial. To many times I've seen one guy get mutted, and the other side continue on causing trouble. The second, they have to be willing to Piss "customers" off. This is something HTC would have to approve. If someone is continues to cause trouble the mod should be able to repeatedly boot someone to the point of suspending their account. Some 'bad apples" just aren't worth $15 a month.
If the penalty is strong enough, and given out consistently eventually people, even the kids, would learn what is acceptable.
The message boards are another problem. It is way to easy to hide behind a shade. If it were me, I'd wipe the membership clean and have everyone subscribe with their Call sign as there ID. This way people could be held "accountable" for their conduct. If you are not a subscriber to the game and there fore don't have an ID you would be locked out from ALL threads except one for people asking about the game.
Strict? maybe, but how many people leave the game due to running into the same "A" holes night after night? How many more people would sign up after their 2 weeks if there wasn't any "crap" spilling over on 200?
I agree :aok well put
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Im usually good for a few "push the stick forward" or "G" for gear, 150 mph or below"..... "good guys are green"......but so many of these people DL the game and immediately jump into the MA without even reading as far as to know how to start the frikkin engine----and then they spam the country with questions, NEVER reading the ensuing answers before plodding onto the NEXT question, and then the coup de grace.... after being pointed to the training arena/help page...."I don't FEEL like reading all that crap", and then copping an attitude and declaring the game sucks. Thus goes another 14 year-old. I think a larger and larger % of peeps in here fit in that demographic(http://chat.anncoulter.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/218.gif)
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I think the biggest problem is the fact that they should b in the DA not sitting there asking ppl questions all day.... HTC needs 2 make it a rule of some sort, where u r not allowed in the main arena, DA, or anything like that, inless u have been flying in the TA for atleast 2 days..
-BigBOBCH
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Amen to that ... The arena split is probably the decision HT and crew have made since I have played this game.
Mid-War, even with it's "lower" numbers, reminds me of AH in days past. Yes it has it moments with hot heads, but overall, the regulars in that arena have kept it a pretty civil community and a joy to fly and fight in.
If MW were to ever digress to the cesspool level that I see in LW, I would probably be forced to "hang it up".
Hey Slap, have you ever considered...
With AH's increasing popularity, and the way that the LW arena's fill up, that eventually you'll start to have the MW fill up with overflow from the "cesspool", as it were? What happens' then? Isn't it better if we try to fix the problem now, rather than let it overwhelm us?
If all the Vets' run off and hide in another arena, and deprive the newer generation of the exposure to the way things used to be, then aren't we contributing to our own demise, so-to-speak?
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The assumption that the current batch of players even care how things used to be is probably mistaken.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Respect in the game, and respect on the boards are two totally different things.
In the game I think there should be a certain level of respect displayed to each other. The mods are there....sometimes... to try and keep the peace, but I think there are a couple problems with them. There are not enough of them. Do we need to be baby sat 24/7? right now I'd have to say yes. Once things got back under control, most likely not.
To get thing under control there are two things needed from the mods. First, they have to be impartial. To many times I've seen one guy get mutted, and the other side continue on causing trouble. The second, they have to be willing to Piss "customers" off. This is something HTC would have to approve. If someone is continues to cause trouble the mod should be able to repeatedly boot someone to the point of suspending their account. Some 'bad apples" just aren't worth $15 a month.
If the penalty is strong enough, and given out consistently eventually people, even the kids, would learn what is acceptable.
The message boards are another problem. It is way to easy to hide behind a shade. If it were me, I'd wipe the membership clean and have everyone subscribe with their Call sign as there ID. This way people could be held "accountable" for their conduct. If you are not a subscriber to the game and there fore don't have an ID you would be locked out from ALL threads except one for people asking about the game.
Strict? maybe, but how many people leave the game due to running into the same "A" holes night after night? How many more people would sign up after their 2 weeks if there wasn't any "crap" spilling over on 200?
I cant tell you how many times I have thought the same thing..
You see NEW names on and these same guys are yelling at them with a harsh tone in thier voices.
How is it these same guys always attract the NEW players and are always yelling at them.
I actually made a list on the wall next to my computer. It had a list of New names that have been yelled at....I check the roster if they LOG just after getting yelled at and i write the name down. They get a checkmark if I ever see the name again.
To date out of all the names I have seen 2 players came back. The rest vanish never to be seen again.
I no longer keep a list and I help out new players were I can.
Even from a bussiness perspective allowing this kind of behaver is "bad bussiness"
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Just curious FireDrgn, how many businesses have you owned?
No disrespect intended but business looks a little different on the other side of the ball.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Duty-game, game-duty... Oxymoron
The only thing you're obliged in this game, is paying your $14.95 and play by the rules HTC set forth. All other goodies are icing on the cake.
Don't expect everyone to take online game as serious as you do, as such, do not demand moral obedience. It has nothing to do with respect.
In online game, respect is earned, it can not be forced.
I totally agree. Some of us, including myself, come from other online communities much larger than this one. The norms some have come accustomed to is very foreign to me. IMO people in this game are way too sensitive to trash talk.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Hey Slap, have you ever considered...
With AH's increasing popularity, and the way that the LW arena's fill up, that eventually you'll start to have the MW fill up with overflow from the "cesspool", as it were? What happens' then? Isn't it better if we try to fix the problem now, rather than let it overwhelm us?
If all the Vets' run off and hide in another arena, and deprive the newer generation of the exposure to the way things used to be, then aren't we contributing to our own demise, so-to-speak?
Well ... you have a point there.
But ... before I decided to spend 99% of my time in the MW, I did try to make changes within the LW by asking those who were disruptive, crude, vulgar, etc, to stop.
Needless to say ... I got told exactly where to go and at the same time, some other vets, who I expected to support me not only didn't support me, they actually sided with the disruptive person.
Bollocks to that ... I gave it shot and got it thrown in my face. Also, we have had BBS discussions on the cesspool attitude in LW and what came of those ... nothing ... the LW mentality, as it is now ... was defended tooth and nail.
In the MW, the majority of the people that fly in there seems to have the same mindset as me ... so when I call someone on their language or attitude ... there is support and for the most part, the person does cease and desist.
Don't look at it like I am hiding in a new arena ... look at it like I am trying to prevent the new arena from turning into a "cesspool".
I believe that myself and other vets in the MW who call people on this type of stuff, we are hopefully setting a standard within MW that all who fly in MW regularly will accept as the "norm", and disrupter's will be admonished by all.
Make no mistake, the MW has it's moments and characters, but by and large, it does even register on the scale compared to the LW arenas ... and that is something that I can live with ... at the moment.
Hopefully, if the 2 LWs approach saturation ... HT will open a 3rd LW so that the cesspool runoff will not pollute the MW pond.
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I know all this stuff you guys are complaining about happen in the LWA's but I have to say my experiences are a lot different.
I often get, and give 's after good, and sometimes even not so good, fights. I enjoy getting a after a good fight. Sometime's it's hard to back if I lost but I manage to do it anyway.
I rarely have anyone whine to me on 200 after I kill them (I can count the incidents over the past 7 years on both, if not one hand), even if it was a HO or some other equally dweebish shot.
I occasionally let out a whine on 200 but only after much frustration.
I can count the number of times I've been PM'd on one hand. I've only PM'd in frustration once (and that was very recently). Other than that I have done it at times I felt someone might be c******* and those have generally ended as civil conversations on PM.
As to noob questions, I'll answer if I see them and am not too busy. It doesn't hurt anything, even if they are too lazy to read although I don't answer the "what's the fastest plane" questions.
IMHO, you get treated like you treat others. It's not too hard to be civil.
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Originally posted by TwentyFo
I totally agree. Some of us, including myself, come from other online communities much larger than this one. The norms some have come accustomed to is very foreign to me. IMO people in this game are way too sensitive to trash talk.
It's possible that those you consider too sensitive to trash talk are perhaps older individuals that still remember what happened when trash talk was confined to face to face meetings without the distances involved with the net.
Not sure if such still applies but there was a time when the courts recognized that words could be uttered/said/screamed/whatever that would be considered as..
"thems fightin words"
I know at one time saying certain things would result in fists being thrown and NO court in the country would try either party. Or the guilty party was the instigator/speaker that uttered the fightin words.
Now?
As to the size of a community. I've come to hold the opinion that the larger communities GENERALLY have the poorest behavior. This isn't always the case but does tend to prove to be how things work.
Self policing our community might be wise.
I keep waiting for a group of smart attorney's to find a way to bring suite against someone for online insults and such.
Pretty sure at some point it WILL HAPPEN just not sure when or how it will come about.
Seem to recall a suite being brought against myspace and some people that were using it, over a recent suicide? A possible beginning?
I keep looking for this to start happening more and more with BBS's and online games and such.
There is money to be made. And there are plenty of attorney's just waiting for NEW ways to make it.
If nothing else I look for the P.C. crowd to start looking at net behavior and shaking a finger at it soon.
And of course you have the politicians that are just looking for something to use for their cause and their election/reelection.
Someone once told me something that I've never forgot.
Went something like this..........
If you don't, or can't, control yourself, there are plenty of people out there that can, and are waiting, all a tingle with excitement, to do it for you. Control yourself and, at the very least, you wont be giving them an excuse to do so.
Heard all kinds of arguments against the above but never actually heard anyone refute it?
I'm of the opinion that Hitler and his crew used this kinda thing to some success.
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Originally posted by wrag
It's possible that those you consider too sensitive to trash talk are perhaps older individuals that still remember what happened when trash talk was confined to face to face meetings without the distances involved with the net.
When I trash talk, I try to not to make it seem as a threat. Have you ever seen the way Vince Vaughn talked to that kid while playing Madden in 'The Breakup'?
That's the way I try to use trash talk. Some of you guys take it personal, which is ridiculous. When I do it, I want the other person to respond. Most of the time, it always ends up with me smiling and a . I try to keep it all in good fun. Watch the clip, I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
Vince Vaughn Video Games (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7XCTSrgBGjk)
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Originally posted by hitech
Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Perhaps we should make some people repeat the low level schooling.
HiTech
Not me. I didn't learn about quality import beers until the third grade.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Not me. I didn't learn about quality import beers until the third grade.
My regards,
Widewing
:rofl
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Originally posted by TwentyFo
When I trash talk, I try to not to make it seem as a threat. Have you ever seen the way Vince Vaughn talked to that kid while playing Madden in 'The Breakup'?
That's the way I try to use trash talk. Some of you guys take it personal, which is ridiculous. When I do it, I want the other person to respond. Most of the time, it always ends up with me smiling and a . I try to keep it all in good fun. Watch the clip, I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
Vince Vaughn Video Games (http://youtube.com/watch?v=7XCTSrgBGjk)
If you have ever seen my trash talk................ it's sooooo ridicules in nature that VERY FEW might even THINK I'm serious.
HOWEVER I didn't watch that movie, AND that movie, I did watched the clip you posted, relies IMHO heavily on the fact that you can SEE their faces, AND HEAR their voices!
On the net in the arenas seeing their faces and/or hearing their voices doesn't happen often. At least from those in an opposing country.
Although I do sometimes find myself wondering if some of these people aren't "hearing voices"?
My point was to express that trash talk can get out of hand quickly IF it isn't kept to certain minimum STANDARDS.
IMHO Those STANDARDS are what most or many are trying to express in this thread.
Courtesy, civility, sort of a line that SHOULD NOT be crossed thing.
It SEEMS the LOWER that standard of trash talk the worse the response from those receiving that trash talk!
That is what most are really trying to say in this thread IMHO.
I responded to your post, NOT to mark or criticizes you specifically Sir!
But to express that IMHO the standard some SEEM to be trying to set MAY be too low.
If that standard is kept higher it is possible that fewer will cross that line as often as they do now.
OOOPS had a bad typo I had to fix :( (that was NwBie's fault BTW :D )
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Well put wrag.
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I don't see one bit of difference in civility through the entire time I've been in AH. If anything, frankly abusive behavior is much less than it was before HTC's crackdown a couple years ago.
Absolutely agree that simple (used to be called "Common") courtesy is rare enough...but it's not a change in AH, it's a change in the culture. So it's not easy to change, and in particular it's not AH's fault.
I've been here right around four years, and caught the tail end of AH-1. I'm a lifelong history and aviation fan, and although finances and life events kept me from being part of the Old Guard in 15-20 years ago, I would have fit in just fine. (Not incidentally, I'm not one of the many who would have been in elementary school back then.) Like Guppy, I personally see way more "Good fight" and "Who put that tree there" on 200 than otherwise.
There have always been immature people, and immature behavior, on 200. I'd argue that once the new guys and the clueless preteen dolts are subtracted, the abusiveness we see now is much less. If you compare, say, SkyRock's talk (sorry bud) with, say, JohnnyRa's in his prime -- there's simply no comparison in the pure nastyness.
In short, agree that we should be civil.
In short, think things are on the whole better than they were. Maybe not good, but definitely better.