Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MjTalon on January 24, 2008, 05:59:28 PM
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One of the things the Messerschmitt Bf 109 should be remembered for is the central position it took in the formation of fighter tactics for fast metal monoplane aircraft that appeared at the end of the 1930's, the same tactics that are still in use today.
During the First World War and the inter-war years the basic unit of aircraft was three aircraft flying in "V" formation known as a "Vic" by the RAF and a "Kette" by the Germans. First World War pilots had taken to flying this formation quite far apart to make their aircraft less easily seen and to avoid collisions, but in the "parade ground" atmosphere of peace, airforces tightened up the formations. The fashion for tight formation flying displays, at the public displays that were popular between the war, accentuated this development.
When the Messerschmitt 109 was committed to the Civil War in Spain, its pilots at first flew in the old "V" formations but a shortage of the new aeroplanes forced them to fly in twos when escorting bombing raids, in order to provide cover on all sides of the bombing formations. At this time there arrived in Spain Werner Molders, who took the two aircraft formation and extended its use and moulded it into the tactics needed by the new generation of aircraft such as the Bf109.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/tigersalh/109swarm2.gif)
two aircraft formation is much easier to handle than three. If the aircraft fly far enough apart there is less chance of collision. The leader concentrates on looking ahead while the wingman's attention is to the rear, making sure an enemy aircraft does not sneak up from behind. Remember that sight is the only sense available to a fighter pilot, he cannot hear an attacker, and at the high speeds attained by aircraft like the Bf109 another aircraft can change from a small speck in the distance to an executioner sitting on your tail in just a few seconds. The best form of fighter attack has always been out of the sun, where an aircraft is very nearly impossible to see against the glare. To guard against this the pair would position themselves so that each had a clear view of the sun, unobstructed by the other
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/tigersalh/109swarm1.gif)
The pair of aircraft was called a "Rotte" by the Germans. Molders expanded it into the "Schwarm", two pairs acting together. Again the aircraft flew wide apart, the two leaders looking ahead, the two wingmen concentrating on the rear. The second pair would fly behind the leader of the first pair, stepped up away from the sun. The leaders wingman would fly behind and low. One of the reasons that the time for this sort of formation had come was the availability of air to air radio. A loose formation is only possible when the pilots are freed of flying close enough to see their leader's hand signals. A loose formation is much harder to see against the sky than a tight one, the Schwarm would only close up to keep contact with each other when passing through cloud.
It was the adoption of these tactics, as much as the excellent flying qualities of the 109, that gave victory to the Germans in their early campaigns. The RAF copied the German tactics renaming the Schwarm as the "Finger-four" formation. If you look at your hand you will see the tips of your fingers, when outstretched, approximate to the positions of the aircraft in the formation.
A NOTE : The above essay was written in the early 1990's - over the years I have received correspondence from numerous sources pointing out that the "pair" was used by various air forces in the 1930s. - Chief amongst those claiming to be the true parent of the "Swarm" is the Finnish Air Force which apparently used the pair as the basis of fighter tactics well before the Second World War. The Poles are also claimed to have widely practised fighter tatics while flying as pairs. There is also now some evidence that certain RAF Squadrons (principly those in the "Bader Wing") developed and adopted the "finger four" without reference to the German tactics - and indeed when they observed German fighters flying in this formation they thought the Germans were copying them! There are also plenty of RAF combat reports that clearly describe encounters with German fighters that were flying in "Kette" formation, so perhaps the use of the Swarm was not universal throughout all the Luftwaffe fighter force in the early stages of the war.
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That explains a few things! Great post Bro.
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Originally posted by A8balls
That explains a few things! Great post Bro.
Np bro, now if i could find some dedicated Luftwaffe 109 pilots, we can start practicing this tatic :) .
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Great Post!
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Great Post!
Danke spikes :aok ! Now i just gotta find 3 dedicated 109 jocks so we can start practicing it. This is going to be a tough one.
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You fly Bish don't you Talon? If so next time if you're on when I am and we don't have ant squad action happening I'll wing with you for a bit. You may wish to be worried about that :lol I do like the 109's.
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Originally posted by SD67
You fly Bish don't you Talon? If so next time if you're on when I am and we don't have ant squad action happening I'll wing with you for a bit. You may wish to be worried about that :lol I do like the 109's.
Copy that, sir :aok
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During Der Grosse Shlag my Staffel JG54 would use this tactic, we would all divide up into Schwarms, it worked out great.
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isnt that what the americans refer to as the finger four
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Yes split, it's called the Finger four in American Terms.
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very nice Talon, Did you create this or do you know who the author is?
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Originally posted by yanksfan
very nice Talon, Did you create this or do you know who the author is?
I couldn't take the credit for this, i got it off google. I can give you the author tomorrow, kinda tired now and i'm about to hit the sack. This is old though.
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Originally posted by MjTalon
I couldn't take the credit for this, i got it off google. I can give you the author tomorrow, kinda tired now and i'm about to hit the sack. This is old though.
It's very good, i'd like to see the link if you can find it:aok
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Originally posted by yanksfan
It's very good, i'd like to see the link if you can find it:aok
Alrighty, i'll see if i oculd get that link, i'll pm it too ya.
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Originally posted by MjTalon
Np bro, now if i could find some dedicated Luftwaffe 109 pilots, we can start practicing this tatic :) .
::cough::
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
::cough::
Oh my, you live in Alexandria VA O_o?
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I wonder where I have seen guys flying in a schwarm before? Hmmmmmm.
I can't seem to recall now. Darn.
But we are all in agreement that this is a viable and legit way to fly?
Agreeing that it is not "ganging"?
Glad to hear it.
You've been warned. :aok
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Originally posted by MjTalon
Oh my, you live in Alexandria VA O_o?
Indeed I do, sir. Where are you at in the District?
PS: Rolex put on a wingman tactics clinic about a month ago. Dealt with this sort of stuff. Everything from tac turns to change direction to 2v1 and 2v2 tactics. Great stuff - most of which is not only directly applicable to what youre describing, but pioneered by the leather wearing types.
Hajo and I tried it in the MA and it works brilliantly.
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Second to coming across a mission that's just taken off, nothing I enjoy more then coming across Ponies,Spits,109's or whatever trying to fly in historic formation. They are usually so busy keeping it together their actual SA is almost non existent.
Nice post, look forward to seeing it flying. If you'd like something historic to fly against like a yak let me know. :D
...-Gixer
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Talen, Look for me. I'll wing up with you (as long as you don't fly the G-14).
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Talen, Look for me. I'll wing up with you (as long as you don't fly the G-14).
hmmm i can see that just being possible if you let him fly the K4 instead :)
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i thought this would be a thread about how to better line up your 15k run on the runwway fer a vulch'n'go :D
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Talen, Look for me. I'll wing up with you (as long as you don't fly the G-14).
Sure thing sir, i fly all 109s, K4 being my favorite, G14 is second in line :) .
And yea bat lol, long as i can fly the K4 primarly :lol !
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Originally posted by Gixer
They are usually so busy keeping it together their actual SA is almost non existent.
...-Gixer
Actually, its my understanding that most of the footage you see of german aircraft flying is tight finger fours is pretty much for the camera only. In combat situations (and this holds true for allied pilots as well), there was a considerable amount of distance between aircraft.
The example Rolex gave during the clinic was about 1,500 meters of seperation. Some of the books Ive read confirm this. The advantage of this was that you could still see the friendly aircraft but didnt have to worry about running into him. Furthermore, in aircraft where rearwardvisability was a real problem (F6F), that distance allowed each aircraft to view a large portion of sky behind the other since Pappy, Galland and Zemke couldnt adjust their views. ;)