Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Citabria on January 26, 2008, 09:51:28 AM
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its bad enough flying a 1943 109g6 vs 1944 la5fn and yak9u. both of which can run away at will. then having an artificial altitude cap that cant be crossed at all even when fighting negating the only advantage the 50mph slower g6 has... climb rate and alt performance.
but when you have what are supposed to be heavy and slugish il2 ground attack aircraft doing the up down +/- g warp evasion and flying their screwed up FM with lazer guns in a dogfight killing 109s with 1 ping all immersion is lost. I wouldnt doubt it if the il2s even had external views enabled. that would be icing on the cake if that was so. they sure had no trouble seeing planes in their blindspots.
this event is so screwed up its not even worth flying. hope the next one is less lopsided.
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and since it is clear no one is interested in a realistic 1943 scenario you might be better off pitting the 109k4 vs the yak9u. which ironically the k4/g10 was in service long before the yak9u was.
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Not so bad if you play your hand right... The yak's and la5's are able to be defeated if you have good SA, Communcation, teamwork, and some Pilot skills.
There honestly not that difficult to defend fester. Just can't go blowing all of your E on one con and choose your attacks carefully. JG/11 did super well last night. Ground pounding and Air to Air.
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The Axis had 164 kills. The Allies had 153 kills. Pretty close in my book.
Kappa and BearKats your very own squadies have been in the top pilots in both the frames so far.
But we are not interested in realistic 1943 events, so please keep the whining to a minimum. On the other hand should you write up a FSO that is realistic I am sure ROC and Sled would be happy to look it over.
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Originally posted by daddog
The Axis had 164 kills. The Allies had 153 kills. Pretty close in my book.
Kappa and BearKats your very own squadies have been in the top pilots in both the frames so far.
But we are not interested in realistic 1943 events, so please keep the whining to a minimum. On the other hand should you write up a FSO that is realistic I am sure ROC and Sled would be happy to look it over.
Had to admit, this one throw me off.................
"But we are not interested in realistic 1943 events"
I have to ask, were you serious or being sarcastic?
Sarcastic I understand, but serious? Would you be willing to explain this to me and others on why FSO's should not be designed with realism/historical aspects in mind in this statement is serious.
Not trying to start anything, but this statement really made me double take and am curious as to why.
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AKKaz I was poking fun at Cit because he said and I quote,
and since it is clear no one is interested in a realistic 1943 scenario you might be better off pitting the 109k4 vs the yak9u.
Of course we try to make them as realistic as possible. Read his post again Kaz. :)
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Awesome looking skin on the P-39 Fester :aok
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Muppet got ownt! thats why he cries lol NO NAME IN LIGHTS:rofl
Overall it was very fair, alt cap aside it was a very close frame. The alt cap should be removed I agree! but i can tell you in our sector it was ignored completely by the germans. Our 1st contact after rearm was approx 25 190s between 20 and 25 K. The only thing that I thought was a little unsettling was during our 1st engagement we swept the skies clean of all 109s, after rearm we returned thinking we had gained a margin of local superiority only to be very very suprised what was laying in wait for us:eek: There were allot more GVers that upped 190s than we ever expected! The odds were easily 2-3 to 1 german favor, very shocking when your squad is now at half strenth--> 9 soles-------> lesson learned.:D
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Fester I understand your frustration with your experience in FSO this last Friday. I know exactly how you feel.
I had my rudder removed with one ping about 23 seconds into my first fight this last Friday. It was Kappa. :lol
I am more than a little familiar with the "Short Night" in FSO. ;) To be quite honest even the best of pilots have them in FSO, they just have less of them.
So far the over all response from this last Friday is very positive. And that is our main concern. There were some rule violations, and that will be dealt with.
One true fact in FSO. No matter how good the squad or pilot, sometimes you get the Lady, sometimes you get the Tiger.
:aok
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Let's not make this 'Fester had a bad Day'.
I would like to know the reason for the 20k artificial cap. It was one question that didn't get answered in the 'Questions thread'. It insures the yak9u performance superiority. It is arbitrary and clearly favors the soviets. And they already have the best ride.
No one has mentioned the lack of 20k cloud cover that was listed in the scenario btw. I suggest it be included in the 3rd round to help reduce violations of the alt cap.
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Virage,
I think part of the reason is that the Eastern Front was predominantly a low-altitude tactical air war, as opposed to the high-altitude strategic warfare of the Western Front. Additionally, things like mountain ranges tended to increase the altitudes of engagements in the Pacific and CBI theaters, as well.
The cap is to ENSURE a low-altitude tactical air war.
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fester i was with you saw the whole thing and its your tactics , you all dove down to the deck and got gang banged ,that was what the allies wanted to sucker you low and fight on their terms . MA tactics don't work in the events , at least not very well
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Originally posted by Saxman
Virage,
I think part of the reason is that the Eastern Front was predominantly a low-altitude tactical air war, as opposed to the high-altitude strategic warfare of the Western Front. Additionally, things like mountain ranges tended to increase the altitudes of engagements in the Pacific and CBI theaters, as well.
The cap is to ENSURE a low-altitude tactical air war.
To ENSURE the Soviet advantage in every way, almost? The only disadvantage they would have is that their aircraft is still not as handsome as the German's.
And about that cloud cover mentioned ..............
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Germans also have better endurance, better guns, and more ammo. Also, the only thing the 109 really CAN'T do against the Yak is run. However most other categories they're a very close match.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Germans also have better endurance, better guns, and more ammo. Also, the only thing the 109 really CAN'T do against the Yak is run. However most other categories they're a very close match.
Correct. Pull up the yak9u, la5, 109g6, and 190a5, in the AH plane comparison page and you will see they are really quite close In all but speed.
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At what altitudes, though?
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Originally posted by Saxman
Germans also have better endurance, better guns, and more ammo. Also, the only thing the 109 really CAN'T do against the Yak is run. However most other categories they're a very close match.
The Lavochkins and Yakovlevs can out-accelerate out-run and out-turn the 109G6. The only thing the G6 can do better is climb.
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The difference in acceleration is measured in 10ths of a second.
The difference in turn radius's is about 30 feet at the max.
This is between the 109G6 and the two Russian planes.
This is all based on below 20k.
The Russians have a clear edge in speed. the Germans have a clear edge in fire power (190A5) and climb rate(109G6). Maneuverability is close to a tie.
Look it up (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php) Select any 4 AC for comparison.
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What about above 20K?
Also, still wondering about the clouds.................
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Just speed huh? No big deal really . In a flight sim, who needs it?
:O :cry
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Originally posted by Virage
Just speed huh? No big deal really . In a flight sim, who needs it?
:O :cry
Ya, but you being a member of JG11's finest, you can figure out how to deal with that.
;)
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Originally posted by VonMessa
What about above 20K?
Also, still wondering about the clouds.................
With a 20k ceiling, does it matter? Any decent Yak or La pilot wants nothing to do with alt's over 15k anyhow.
I'm not part of the design or setup team on this event, so I don't know about the clouds. Hopefully Stoney or Gaiden will be along to answer that for you Von.
:)
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Cloud layers at specific altitudes require a special cloud/effects file to be loaded onto HTC's server. For this terrain, to the best of my knowledge, no such cloud/weather system has been built by our terrain team.
I may be incorrect in regards to the cloud layer, but for the KOTH's cloud layer at 6k, that was something DUX created, sent to skuzzy for building/loading onto the events server and is map specific.
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I'm only asking because it was listed in the event description. I was kinda curious how it would be done anyway.
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There was a special cloud file built for this terrain and this FSO. The original write-up for this FSO required overcast at 20-30K. That was in AH1. In AH2, we do not have the same overcast option we once had, so what we have now is a poor representation of the original idea. It is, however, the best we'll get out of the system we have.
What we have now is patchy thick clouds, not a solid bank. Those who are saying that they saw *no* clouds at all... I have to wonder where you were flying.
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see I knew someone who was smarter at terrains would be along to fix my misinformation.
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Well, that "clears it up" for me. (pun intended)
I just didn't see what I was expecting, I guess. I was looking for the completely obscure version. Honestly, I was mildly concerned that if I did bump into it that it was going to flush my frame rate.
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Originally posted by 1redrum
fester i was with you saw the whole thing and its your tactics , you all dove down to the deck and got gang banged ,that was what the allies wanted to sucker you low and fight on their terms . MA tactics don't work in the events , at least not very well
That is an absolute fabrication at worst or a misjudgement at best.. We stayed high with a flight of yaks at around 17kish until we saw no more.. Perhaps just a few yaks already engaged.. Flying south we encounted a group of il2s around 12-14k.. 3 of us engaged while the il2s pulled evasives from us while watching our attack from external views.. We got a couple and on Fester's zoom out from an attack got 1 ping that got his vert stab I believe.. I made one more boom and zoom on a group of 2-3 il2s.. missing my attack do to poor aim and the il2's external view.. on my zoom up at around 300-350mph I see a il2 600d on my 6 closing very fast.. Obviously my turn was poor because i died, but who'd have thought I'd get bnz'd by a il2. lol
There was no ganging that killed us.. Just a set of unfortunite events.. and perhaps even a touch of swayed rules..
External views should be disabled on iL2s (and all bombers for that matter).. Its bad enough having to dodge 3-4 of them at a time all firing headon at you, but to also have the upperhand taken away (il2's 6 O'clk) where the 109 can excell is a little too much in a realistic scene...
Do 110s (german's only bomber) have external views? no, I didn't think so..
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I'm interested to know how you know external views were enabled.
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
That is an absolute fabrication at worst or a misjudgement at best.. We stayed high with a flight of yaks at around 17kish until we saw no more.. Perhaps just a few yaks already engaged.. Flying south we encounted a group of il2s around 12-14k.. 3 of us engaged while the il2s pulled evasives from us while watching our attack from external views.. We got a couple and on Fester's zoom out from an attack got 1 ping that got his vert stab I believe.. I made one more boom and zoom on a group of 2-3 il2s.. missing my attack do to poor aim and the il2's external view.. on my zoom up at around 300-350mph I see a il2 600d on my 6 closing very fast.. Obviously my turn was poor because i died, but who'd have thought I'd get bnz'd by a il2. lol
There was no ganging that killed us.. Just a set of unfortunite events.. and perhaps even a touch of swayed rules..
External views should be disabled on iL2s (and all bombers for that matter).. Its bad enough having to dodge 3-4 of them at a time all firing headon at you, but to also have the upperhand taken away (il2's 6 O'clk) where the 109 can excell is a little too much in a realistic scene...
Do 110s (german's only bomber) have external views? no, I didn't think so..
I was one of those il2's I can say for sure I had my views internal, I'm pretty sure the rest of GIAP had theirs on internal as well. We're not the "gameing" type. Bear in mind that the il2 is pretty much one of our squads' bread and butter planes, we know how to use it's strengths well. Don't go complaining about the fact you guys followed us down to the deck where you could be ganged, that's not our problem. We were at 10k when we encountered you, and we let you come in and then dove to get our E up to be comparable, we then used that advantage once we had you down there. The il2's cannon are deadly against armour, even more so against aircraft.
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
That is an absolute fabrication at worst or a misjudgement at best.. We stayed high with a flight of yaks at around 17kish until we saw no more.. Perhaps just a few yaks already engaged.. Flying south we encountered a group of il2s around 12-14k.. 3 of us engaged while the il2s pulled evasives from us while watching our attack from external views.. We got a couple and on Fester's zoom out from an attack got 1 ping that got his vert stab I believe.. I made one more boom and zoom on a group of 2-3 il2s.. missing my attack do to poor aim and the il2's external view.. on my zoom up at around 300-350mph I see a il2 600d on my 6 closing very fast.. Obviously my turn was poor because i died, but who'd have thought I'd get bad by a il2. lol
There was no ganging that killed us.. Just a set of unfortunate events.. and perhaps even a touch of swayed rules..
External views should be disabled on iL2s (and all bombers for that matter).. Its bad enough having to dodge 3-4 of them at a time all firing headon at you, but to also have the upper hand taken away (il2's 6 Oclock) where the 109 can excel is a little too much in a realistic scene...
Do 110s (German's only bomber) have external views? no, I didn't think so..
i saw what i saw and i filmed it too i am not trying to slam anyone just offered another point of view of the situation ,, but i dam sure don't appreciate you calling me a liar in not so many words isn't it always easier to cry fowl then really tulips your performance the truth hurts but before you all cry fowl look at the man in the mirror
but fear not , i will never offer any advice or constructive criticism to the muppets because you all obviously know it all
have a great day Richard ...:aok :ROFL
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Originally posted by SD67
I was one of those il2's I can say for sure I had my views internal, I'm pretty sure the rest of GIAP had theirs on internal as well. We're not the "gameing" type. Bear in mind that the il2 is pretty much one of our squads' bread and butter planes, we know how to use it's strengths well. Don't go complaining about the fact you guys followed us down to the deck where you could be ganged, that's not our problem. We were at 10k when we encountered you, and we let you come in and then dove to get our E up to be comparable, we then used that advantage once we had you down there. The il2's cannon are deadly against armour, even more so against aircraft.
funny i am not the only one that saw it like that
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Well, I certianly didnt see it like that redrum/SD67.. I was not ganged.. nor was I on the deck when I died.. nor was I in a position to be ganged.. I'm still not certain why you guys keep saying I/we were ganged.. Its this simple fact redrum, that I said what I did.. So, lets say it was a misjudgement on your part.
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Originally posted by shreck
See Rule #5
and what excuse is that? my excuse was my pooraim/poor SA... what was the real excuse i'm missing?
I mean damn shreck.. I hadn't realized we'd caused you so much trauma in the MA that on one occasion the muppets not dominating would bring such joy to you..kinda funny I think.. I guess if its all you got.. Good for you! 8)
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OK, that's enough.
You guys may continue this in the O'club if you wish.
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by shreck
See Rule #4
Shreck, Is there something about my above post you didn't understand?
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You might as well lock it...
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Originally posted by SLED
Shreck, Is there something about my above post you didn't understand?
Only the typical male desire to have the last word!! I'm done sorry!
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Shreck, if you wish to continue being a member of this bulletin board, then you need to leave the ego at the door. If you, or anyone else, cannot abide by the forum posting rules, then we certainly have options to take care of that.
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Originally posted by Citabria
its bad enough flying a 1943 109g6 vs 1944 la5fn and yak9u. both of which can run away at will. then having an artificial altitude cap that cant be crossed at all even when fighting negating the only advantage the 50mph slower g6 has... climb rate and alt performance.
but when you have what are supposed to be heavy and slugish il2 ground attack aircraft doing the up down +/- g warp evasion and flying their screwed up FM with lazer guns in a dogfight killing 109s with 1 ping all immersion is lost. I wouldnt doubt it if the il2s even had external views enabled. that would be icing on the cake if that was so. they sure had no trouble seeing planes in their blindspots.
this event is so screwed up its not even worth flying. hope the next one is less lopsided.
Hopefully Fester, The introduction of the P-39 will help to remedy one of the biggest problems' that we have in scenario's, snapshots, and FSO's: The holes in the planeset. Eventually, we'll be able to weed some of these things' out. Great work on the P-39, BTW :aok
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seems the gondolas were my problem in frame 2 made my g6 wallow around and get run down by il2s in a zoom climb :D
i left the gondolas off in frame 3 and had fun running down la5's and yaks :)
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So Fester, is it safe to say you are withdrawing these comments?
Originally posted by Citabria
this event is so screwed up its not even worth flying.
and
and since it is clear no one is interested in a realistic 1943 scenario........
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:D
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We have needed the P-39 for Eastern Front events for a very long time, and that should go a long way to getting better matchups, especially for 1943 era sets. It was always a choice of giving the VVS a P-40E or Yak-9T, or a LA-5FN and Yak-9U (a 1944 ride), so with the P-39D/Q that fills the gap nicely.
Just a quick comment, the LA-5FN is not a 1944 fighter. Its first action was Kursk in July of 1943. The Bf 109G-6 was one of its main opponents in the East, as was the Fw190A-5. The Yak-9U was definately a 1944 bird, although it entered service at the same time as the 109G-14 (not after).
In any case things are looking up, as the P-39 is one of the defining fighter types of the VVS in WW2. :aok