Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Chapel on January 27, 2008, 02:19:45 PM
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I've noticed a LOT of 190's cruising in to cripple fields with thier most abundant and dangerous Cannons. And then they die. Either crashing, or shot down by ack mostly.
I realize the SAME thing happening with Ju-88's and Allied bombers as well.
Seems like the losses are staggering and would in all likelyhood cripple a fields supply of aircraft if this type of tactic were kept up and prevelant.
Is there a way to incorporate a frame loss of some sort to discourage pilots from NOT returning home and landing? I have no idea what kind of code might exist for this sort of thing. But perhaps allowing you to only fly tier 1 and 2 aircraft after 5 deaths/bails, and then only allowed to fly tier 1 aircraft after 10 deaths/bails? Ditch's would be acceptable as you have to actually put the aircraft on the ground safely.
This would keep people from Bomb n' Bailing, and wasting aircraft in a loose manner.
That or possibly imposing a 3-5 min timer after each death/bail before you can lift off again. Not sure how this would go over, but it would promote some of those "Good" fights people are looking for, and actually give some meaning to each life you have.
Perhaps for each death/bail, your timer increase's by +1 mins, up to a maximum of 5 mins. And for each landing for which you were airborne for at least 10 mins, you shave -1 min off that timer.
Don't know if any of this stuff might work, or is actually do-able. But it's crazy to see people porking fields with no loss of life, airframe, or any responsibility to thier actions. I know cause i've done it too. I try not to, but I push the bounds if I take damage, because there isn't a real incentive to land. Might as well take out as much as I can before going down in flames.
Thoughts?
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Good idea... no clue how to enforce though.
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Actually, excellent ideas, considering how they are striving for some kind of accuracy.
BTW, I was suprised that being in Italy, that we don't see more C.202's or C.205's flying around...
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To be honest, it's no different than the instant respawning GV's we encounter while taking a field; if your willing to inforce it on aircraft, then it's only fair to assume you enforce it on GV's.
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I belive this Idea has some merit, It might help with those pilots who will kill themselfs on a vulch dive rather than attacking the already airbourne aircraft:aok
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Originally posted by lutrel
To be honest, it's no different than the instant respawning GV's we encounter while taking a field; if your willing to inforce it on aircraft, then it's only fair to assume you enforce it on GV's.
It would be the same if the GV's were coming from another field trying to take yours.
GV's that die defending their field is way different than an aircraft that dive bombs an ememy field then augers, gets another plane and repeats. Apples and Oranges debate, don't even try to compare
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They tryed this back in AH1 were you could only die 6 times every hour. It just made people fly up to 20K and only fight when they every advantage.
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You can set the time in between deaths to fly, and # of deaths per hour.
If you die 10-15 times in one hour, umm.. sometin's goin on.
How about setting the respawn time between deaths to 5 minutes?
What exactly are you guys hoping to accomplish if we enforce this?
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How about setting the respawn time between deaths to 5 minutes?
This is not a good idea... We already have lame goobers who are afraid to fight as it is...this would only encourage that. Not to mention the fact that attempting to defend an field would be incredibly frustrating, and the fact that it could very well mean 90% of the arena is sitting in towers waiting for a 5 minute timer to expire.
To me, the only way to stop the bomb-bailing is for some squads to actually have some semblance of a code of conduct. It is generally squads that I've seen using that tactic. We don't need admin rules to cover every tiny thing, we are adults (some of us) and surely we can govern ourselves to some small extent...this being one of them. Squadleaders should govern their pilots, and admins should guide the squadleaders as to the "spirit of the arena".
If it becomes a problem, take film and turn it in...end of story. No need to impose rules on EVERYONE when it's only a handful causing problems.
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would you also be willing to enforce a no dive bombing lancaster and B26 rule? the suicide porkers I've seen have all been in B26s and lancasters. how about a no 20k spitfires hordes rule?
this thread is silly.
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Originally posted by republic
This is not a good idea... We already have lame goobers who are afraid to fight as it is...this would only encourage that. Not to mention the fact that attempting to defend an field would be incredibly frustrating, and the fact that it could very well mean 90% of the arena is sitting in towers waiting for a 5 minute timer to expire.
To me, the only way to stop the bomb-bailing is for some squads to actually have some semblance of a code of conduct. It is generally squads that I've seen using that tactic. We don't need admin rules to cover every tiny thing, we are adults (some of us) and surely we can govern ourselves to some small extent...this being one of them. Squadleaders should govern their pilots, and admins should guide the squadleaders as to the "spirit of the arena".
If it becomes a problem, take film and turn it in...end of story. No need to impose rules on EVERYONE when it's only a handful causing problems.
Yea I'm sure you wouldn't like it, because your squadmates are guality of doing it. I chased two of your squad mates todays whom were porking then runing away. Killed the first one ends up being storch.. Another friendly chased the second and he bailed out rather than get killed. ( I think it was tbarone)
About 15 mins later tbarone comes into a Vbase to get the last remaining troop barrack.. I was close by so I go after him.. He gets the barrick then runs home like a school girl and tries to hide in his ack at his base.
So maybe you should start talking to your own squad.
btw I have film of them, if you like to see. :lol
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Originally posted by DmdJJ
It would be the same if the GV's were coming from another field trying to take yours.
GV's that die defending their field is way different than an aircraft that dive bombs an ememy field then augers, gets another plane and repeats. Apples and Oranges debate, don't even try to compare
I agree whole heartedly, but the key word here is "auger". But if we are not careful, we will be punishing pilots for honestly getting shot down by ack.
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Originally posted by crockett
Yea I'm sure you wouldn't like it, because your squadmates are guality of doing it. I chased two of your squad mates todays whom were porking then runing away. Killed the first one ends up being storch.. Another friendly chased the second and he bailed out rather than get killed.
So, you are saying the accomplished their mission, and you are upset that their mission didn't include fighting you?
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Originally posted by E25280
So, you are saying the accomplished their mission, and you are upset that their mission didn't include fighting you?
I'm saying he's on their squad and they are doing what he is complaing about. So I'm saying he should start talking in his own backyard.
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Originally posted by crockett
I'm saying he's on their squad and they are doing what he is complaing about. So I'm saying he should start talking in his own backyard.
There something wrong with porking fields? Becuase every time I log on all or dar, troops, ord ect are down and we have to resupplie them. hes talking about the tard who get in bombers climb to 20ft and bomb hangers and such just to then bail out and get more bombers.
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Originally posted by republic
To me, the only way to stop the bomb-bailing is for some squads to actually have some semblance of a code of conduct. It is generally squads that I've seen using that tactic. We don't need admin rules to cover every tiny thing, we are adults (some of us) and surely we can govern ourselves to some small extent...this being one of them. Squadleaders should govern their pilots, and admins should guide the squadleaders as to the "spirit of the arena".
Agreed. We're starting to see some of this. I've seen TK and Chapel do it, and I understand from these boards that Lute does, too. Shifty has always been a model.
However:
AvA has always been proud to test new things (as we're seeing now). A very limited time-out - a minute or so - might just make people think twice before doing something like pork-&-bail.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
However:
AvA has always been proud to test new things (as we're seeing now). A very limited time-out - a minute or so - might just make people think twice before doing something like pork-&-bail.
- oldman
Beware the law of unintended consequences.
You will punish those who are making an honest (if somewhat desperate) attempt at saving a base with a partial cap. He starts, gets blown up on the runway . . . then has to wait a minute or so before he gets a chance to try again? Heck, a single vulcher could keep 6-8 people in the tower indefinitely that way.
I don't think this is a good idea at all.
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Does the game support using perks?
For example, you start with 100 perks in each category. Ideally getting some each day. Everything costs at least one perk with the uberest costing the most. Over the long run wasting lives limits your options. Perks are pretty easy to earn with the first gen fighters having an eny of 40 or more so unless you are a suicidal monkey you won't have any trouble.
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Originally posted by E25280
Beware the law of unintended consequences.
You will punish those who are making an honest (if somewhat desperate) attempt at saving a base with a partial cap. He starts, gets blown up on the runway . . . then has to wait a minute or so before he gets a chance to try again? Heck, a single vulcher could keep 6-8 people in the tower indefinitely that way.
I don't think this is a good idea at all.
It might put some kind of a kibosh on vulching, though.
If the vulcher has to wait longer for potential vulches' to pop up on the runway, they might not be either able to swoop down right away, or might have to leave sooner(due to lack of fuel.) However, with the fuel burn on 1.00, quite a few aircraft have plenty of fuel.
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Originally posted by crockett
I'm saying he's on their squad and they are doing what he is complaing about. So I'm saying he should start talking in his own backyard.
You should read before you post...I am not complaining about anything, I'm trying to give a suggestion to those who are...
We don't need the admins running around like our nannys making rules to stop people from hurting feelings. If we start a timer after deaths before we can up, I don't understand how that helps. You punish everyone to deal with a few miscreants.
If there is a problem, film it, turn it in...end of story. CO's will admonish squads, Generals will admonish CO's and admins will kick those who don't follow the rules. Simple. No one but the offenders are punished.
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Originally posted by Larry
There something wrong with porking fields? Becuase every time I log on all or dar, troops, ord ect are down and we have to resupplie them. hes talking about the tard who get in bombers climb to 20ft and bomb hangers and such just to then bail out and get more bombers.
I could care less about porking a base. However what they did was run away soon as they did it and wouldn't fight. First time was 2 of them I killed one and the other bailed out of a perfect plane rather than get killed.
Second time, the guy porks a troop barrack then runs all the way back to his base to hide in his ack with me chasing him. He then starting climbing in his ack turns to try to Ho me and ends up with a ram.
So yea I do have a problem with dweebs whom talk smack yet run away.. prior to this Storch was sending me PM's gloating because he got lucky and killed me 2 times when it was 3 vs 1 then 5 vs 1.
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strafing, before you opine get out of the spit come down from 20k and actually fight. until then your opinion is without value.
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Originally posted by heythere
strafing, before you opine get out of the spit come down from 20k and actually fight. until then your opinion is without value.
I don't quite think I've ever made it to 20k in the AvA arena.. I did go afk and came back at 18k once, but I'll keep shooting for the stars and I'm sure I'll hit 20k some time.
Just because I manage to keep my E in most cases doesn't make me an alt monkey, it means I try to fly smart. However that doesnt' mean I don't get into the action.
This is two films from tonight..
6 kills 3 mins (http://www.wargamerx.com/temp/6kills-spit9.ahf) You will notice I dive into a bunch of red guys at a enemy base and kill 6 of them, leaving alive and able to land my kills. Also notice I had every opportunity to vulch several cons but I stuck to the cons in the air.
Getting my butt owned (http://www.wargamerx.com/temp/6kills-spit9.ahf) This one you will see I engage two co alt cons with no one there to help me, with several others cons close by. Two turns into 5 or 6 and I think I did a pretty good job staying alive as long as I did. You will notice not once did I try to HO any of them even though I probably could have taken 1 or 2 out with a quick HO.
Now.. since you want to be a critic, why don't you tell me your real name and then maybe I'll think about giving your opinion a value rank other than troll.
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dear strafing why not just say, yes I'm usually far above the fight, yes I'm usually in a spitfire and no I do not engage unless I hold all the cards. there is nothing wrong with the way you play but it is annoying for the other fellow to be constantly picked or your team mates to have hard worked kills snatched from them. not to worry though sir you are in good company as many others seem to prefer this type of style. I'm sorry I typed anything about it after all it is your eight quid/fifteen dollars and you are jolly well entitled to do what ever you please with it.
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Hi folks,
and now for my 2 cents. i am new to this game and die on a regular and frequent basis, as i have not mastered the learning curve yet. to put a time limit on the dying would mean that i would spend most of my time in the tower. now i know alot of you have much more experience then i do, and its a frustration that people can up 2 seconds after they die, but its a condition of the playing field and you have to kind of work with it.
when you cap a field do you wait for the guy to get off the runway to slam him or do you just blast him on the ground. the latter makes more sense and if a time limit was enforced, one guy could cap a field indefinitely. not my idea of fun. i get vulched alot when someone is trying to take a field but im the kind of guy thats determined to get in the air, and thank god they're not real bullets. i keep coming back til i get tired of getting vulched, then i run from another airbase. now if there a time limit that would limit my play time, id be better off in the main arena's and thats probably what my entire squad would do. its a game boys and girls remember that.
now, as for ho'ing and vulching, i asked a friend of mine if indeed they did that in the real war? he said absolutely, they took every advantage they could. they'd nail a me262 on final approach because it was at a very low speed. if they hit a airbase and there was a plane trying to take off, they smoked it. when they attacked pearl harbor, they did the same thing. when you're trying to win, theres no honor as far as im concerned.
unless they make it a hard and fast rule that ho'ing and vulching is not allowed, its gonna happen, PERIOD. get over it and play the game to the best of your ability and have a good time. We're all in here for the fun. Just rember that. if its not fun, well then its time to find a new hobby, like sheep farming.
again, just my 2 cents from the new guy--- Gary Davis
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I think that this should be a community or squad enforced issue. I will never hesitate when directed by my superior officer to attack a specific objective, haul troops, or haul supplies, but I take the time to land that plane everytime. There is no requirement to fight anyone, run if you like. Just don't bail out of a perfectly good airplane! It is part of the realism, and part of the fun.
Oink
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Originally posted by heythere
dear strafing why not just say, yes I'm usually far above the fight, yes I'm usually in a spitfire and no I do not engage unless I hold all the cards. there is nothing wrong with the way you play but it is annoying for the other fellow to be constantly picked or your team mates to have hard worked kills snatched from them. not to worry though sir you are in good company as many others seem to prefer this type of style. I'm sorry I typed anything about it after all it is your eight quid/fifteen dollars and you are jolly well entitled to do what ever you please with it.
Looks like you are nothing more than a troll, as you are too chicken it seems to post your in game name. So you continue to attack yet are scared to tell me whom is attacking.. go figure. I can only assume I must have killed you several times and you are just a sore loser. :lol
So (sore loser troll) I fly a spit because it's what we have. Allies have only 2 planes with cannons, the Spit9 and the P38G. I'm not really a fan of the F6F because of the lack of rear visibility and I admit I'm a cannon dweeb.
While I do love the little Huri 1 it's fairly useless trying to kill 4 or 5 190's or 109's that I tend to run into just about every sortie. The Axis planes are pretty tough planes and hard to kill quickly with only .303's. So I tend to fly the spit9, again because it's what we have and it's one of only 2 cannon planes on the Allie side.
Would you rather I fly a p38G or the Jug and BnZ you all day? Would that make you feel less emotional? I can do that if you like, but I suspect you would cry about that too. Maybe I'll just fly a goon around, at least then I guess you could have a chance.
You don't like the spits then whine to the CM's for setting up this frame with them. Personally I'm not a fan of the spits, I tend to fly 190's a lot in the MA but again we have what we have.
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Originally posted by captain1ma
Hi folks,
and now for my 2 cents. i am new to this game and die on a regular and frequent basis, as i have not mastered the learning curve yet. to put a time limit on the dying would mean that i would spend most of my time in the tower. now i know alot of you have much more experience then i do, and its a frustration that people can up 2 seconds after they die, but its a condition of the playing field and you have to kind of work with it.
when you cap a field do you wait for the guy to get off the runway to slam him or do you just blast him on the ground. the latter makes more sense and if a time limit was enforced, one guy could cap a field indefinitely. not my idea of fun. i get vulched alot when someone is trying to take a field but im the kind of guy thats determined to get in the air, and thank god they're not real bullets. i keep coming back til i get tired of getting vulched, then i run from another airbase. now if there a time limit that would limit my play time, id be better off in the main arena's and thats probably what my entire squad would do. its a game boys and girls remember that.
now, as for ho'ing and vulching, i asked a friend of mine if indeed they did that in the real war? he said absolutely, they took every advantage they could. they'd nail a me262 on final approach because it was at a very low speed. if they hit a airbase and there was a plane trying to take off, they smoked it. when they attacked pearl harbor, they did the same thing. when you're trying to win, theres no honor as far as im concerned.
unless they make it a hard and fast rule that ho'ing and vulching is not allowed, its gonna happen, PERIOD. get over it and play the game to the best of your ability and have a good time. We're all in here for the fun. Just rember that. if its not fun, well then its time to find a new hobby, like sheep farming.
again, just my 2 cents from the new guy--- Gary Davis
Personally, I like to let them get off the ground to at least give them some sort of sporting chance, granted it's not much of a chance. You can still capture a base with out resulting to pure all out vulching IMO.
Allies did a pretty good job of it when we finally took A57 last night. We had the base capped and I think I only saw one plane get vulched on the runway. Can't say it didn't happen but pretty much all the cons i saw get killed were at least in the air and able to make a evasive turn.
It just really depends on what arena you are flying in. With EW, MW and AvA the player base is small and the plane sets are limited so you don't have a real reason to vulch IMO. I think because of the smaller player base it allows players to give the other guy a bit of a chance.
If in the MA well I'll vulch in a heart beat, simply because 9 times out of 10 if you are capping a field the other team will likely be in LA7's or Nikis and a capped field in the MA can quickly become un-capped because there are so many players online. So vulching in the MA is almost expected if I'm upping at a capped field.
I like to look at the MA is eating at McDonnalds vs AvA,EW,MW as more dining at a 5 star restaurant. The MA is more of the slums so you have to do what you have to do, because if you don't do it to them, they will do it to you.
As for HOing, I try to avoid it if at all possible. You referenced did they do it in WW2.. Yes they did, but it was different in WW2 vs this game. American panes did it because they had a very good chance of winning a HO vs trying to turn fight a zeek. So in a sense they HOed because it gave them a better chance of survival in some fights or situations.
In this game, if you HO it gives you roughly a 50% survival chance, not very good odds IMO. So if you fly with the same attitude they had in WW2 you would be flying to stay alive. In this game with roughly a 50% survival chance I'd say HOing isn't a good tactic and you wont live long doing it.
Besides, HOing not giving you a good survival chance, it's also a bad tactic in most cases. Most decent sticks can avoid a HO fairly easily and then have an advantage on you. When you try to HO, you have to keep flying straight, they start turning early to avoid and will already have a clear advantage on you in most cases.
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I'll have agree with strafing on this one:
As for HOing, I try to avoid it if at all possible. You referenced did they do it in WW2.. Yes they did, but it was different in WW2 vs this game. American panes did it because they had a very good chance of winning a HO vs trying to turn fight a zeek. So in a sense they HOed because it gave them a better chance of survival in some fights or situations.
In this game, if you HO it gives you roughly a 50% survival chance, not very good odds IMO. So if you fly with the same attitude they had in WW2 you would be flying to stay alive. In this game with roughly a 50% survival chance I'd say HOing isn't a good tactic and you wont live long doing it.
Besides, HOing not giving you a good survival chance, it's also a bad tactic in most cases. Most decent sticks can avoid a HO fairly easily [/u]and then have an advantage on you. When you try to HO, you have to keep flying straight, they start turning early to avoid and will already have a clear advantage on you in most cases.
It still takes 2 to HO, so if you don't like getting HO'd learn to get out of the way.
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Originally posted by crockett
Allies did a pretty good job of it when we finally took A57 last night. We had the base capped and I think I only saw one plane get vulched on the runway.
Far more than 1 plane was vulched...but it doesn't really matter. We don't need rules against it or game mechanics to prohibit it.
The biggest problem right now is the constant complaining. Both sides are guilty of dweebery, it's up to the CO's and generals to keep their pilots in line. If they don't, well...that's ok too. It is a war, and there are other fields to up from. If it's egregious, the admins will deal with it.
The only real issue was people logging in when no one was on and trying to run the fields. That has stopped, and that's all the regulations we need.
The war is going well. I catch myself wanting to log in from time to time just to look at the map and see if we've pushed further south, if the allies have made inroads, etc.
And honestly, as far as the complaint of bombing/dying/ditching...the point could be made that it was a strategy used in war, mostly by the Axis but the Allies as well. I don't do it, I think it's lame, but it doesn't hurt my feelings when someone does it. I just shake my head and go on.
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Originally posted by 4440
I'll have agree with strafing on this one:
It still takes 2 to HO, so if you don't like getting HO'd learn to get out of the way.
That's not really true. Sure in a one on one merge it's easy to say it takes two, but there are only so many you can avoid when fighting mutable cons.
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Originally posted by Chapel
I've noticed a LOT of 190's cruising in to cripple fields with thier most abundant and dangerous Cannons. And then they die. Either crashing, or shot down by ack mostly.
All we have is 190's beside a few wayward 109G feilds. We cant be flying 109E's against your countless Spit 9's.
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This thread has degenerated into a finger pointing fest, which was not it's intent. Personal attacks can get left in the can where they belong. If you really WANT to point fingers and make personal attacks, start your own thread, which will promptly be closed for violating forum rules.
As for the original issue...
I think trying out the 2min timer might be a good idea. It might actually PROMOTE smarter flying, not upping from a CAPPED base, or diving in hard to pork a target only to get flying quickly again. I've seen both sides guilty of the same thing, weather intentional or not.
All i'm saying, is that it's worth a try to get some sembalance of feeling the effects of airframe/ground frame loss. It may make taking a base more of a strategic thing, and defending one even more important.
As it stands, a base doens't really need CAP to defend. Instead you just up countless times until the planes overhead run out of ammo, and go for the C47's. If you're FORCED to actually initiate a CAP for defense, it'll make all those extra bodies doing thier own thing more important.
If people are AFRAID of diving into 6-8 cons, then that's EXACTLY what I'm looking to see. That is a direct EFFECT to promoting a good tactics.
Just my opinion, even though it'll mean more tower time for me as well.
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Originally posted by Chapel
I think trying out the 2min timer might be a good idea. It might actually PROMOTE smarter flying, not upping from a CAPPED base, or diving in hard to pork a target only to get flying quickly again. I've seen both sides guilty of the same thing, weather intentional or not.
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Just my opinion, even though it'll mean more tower time for me as well.
Unfortunately, a 2 minute timer is a deal breaker for me. You cannot punish everyone in the arena because a handful of people are dive bombing lancs/88's. If you want to stop people from upping a base the solution is simple...\bomb the fighter hangers. It's a very easy thing to do, and the game mechanics are already there. Instant 'no upper'. They stay down long enough to do what is needed to secure and capture the base.
Respectfully, the very thought of this timer makes me want to vomit. We already have players on both sides who are afraid to fight and lose...this just gives us all a reason to climb to 25k and attack only when we have an absolute advantage. It would mean that whichever side had the numbers at any given moment would have absolute control.
The only hope the underdog has right now is the ability to up very quickly and continuously, in a coordinated effort, in order to stop an attack. Add that timer, and the country with the numbers will just steamroll across the map.
A timer of any kind would absolutely need a community vote. If the majority of the community want it, so be it. I'll find another place to fly.
Again, I have to stress....a timer is punishing EVERYONE in the arena for a handful of miscreants. Why don't we be men and just call out the offenders? If anyone sees someone causing a problem doing this, film it, and turn it in. Problem solved.
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I agree a death timer wouldn't be a good thing. Would make people even more timid.
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An inability to bail and re-up instantly would see me never coming back to the arena.
It's simple. If I'm looking for a fight, and one starts somewhere else, I'm not going to fly over there, or circle around and make a nice approach.
ENTERENTERENTER / .move wherever click to roll.
I go through planes like they're free, because.. well, they are. Pay to play, not stare at the hangar screen because I got bored waiting on somebody to grow a pair and come up after me.
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Hi Chapel!
Since WB that I strive for having a finite number of planes built into the code and linked to an "historical" total, divided by the number of TOD days and spread by the total number of airfields, linked with the in-game supply sistem to the aircraft factories that don't exist...
This issue is ancient history and I gave up to bring it up to an open arena a long time ago...
But there is a very simple solution, better than extended times in tower, perking planes and all that: it's the ratio of total number of sorties vs total number of sorties landed, affected by the simple kill/death - 1 ratio and the extrapolation of this indicator to an automatic aircraft type/model disabler...
Pretty simple, in fact: the side landing more sorties with a positive K/D ratio keeps fighting because saves it's resources; the side that lands less sorties, even with a positive K/D ratio, suffers higher attrition and loses some models, thus hampering his fighting abilities.
To this I call "Sparrow's Factor".
Cheers,
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Often times in this game we reach a point where realism must give way to the fact that this is a game that we are paying to play to have fun. This is one of those times.
Frankly, I'm just not seeing a big problem. In the last map we had entire allied squads taking B-26's dumping on our cities and bailing, not just one night, several nights. It wasn't a problem. It was irritating, but that's it.
I don't understand how the sky is suddenly falling and we need limits to the numbers of planes upped, or timeouts for pilots that are shot down/bail/etc.
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Originally posted by republic
You should read before you post...I am not complaining about anything, I'm trying to give a suggestion to those who are...
We don't need the admins running around like our nannys making rules to stop people from hurting feelings. If we start a timer after deaths before we can up, I don't understand how that helps. You punish everyone to deal with a few miscreants.
If there is a problem, film it, turn it in...end of story. CO's will admonish squads, Generals will admonish CO's and admins will kick those who don't follow the rules. Simple. No one but the offenders are punished.
The best option there is.
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Originally posted by republic
If there is a problem, film it, turn it in...end of story. CO's will admonish squads, Generals will admonish CO's and admins will kick those who don't follow the rules. Simple. No one but the offenders are punished.
Sometimes I'm REEEAL BAD and need to be punished.
Come spank me Slash. :eek:
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By talking about limiter formulas aren't you reducing the war down to the following:
1. One death per 24hr play period.
2. Define the time duration of the war, ie 7days, 30 days, and issue a finite number of available vehicles from the factories per day.
3. Define production factories, so by damage, have a direct limiting factor on the number of vehicals(aircraft, GV, CV) available each 24hr play period. Allow changing of the number by active resupply missions to the 24hr period allotment.
4. Define rebuild periods for the factories and have 1 non destroyable or capturable resupply only feild for each country. Allow destruction of convoys, trains and human resupply to impact speed of factory rebuild.
5. Make the factories huge, and hard to wipe out by a small hand full of greifers.
6. Make a standard objective at wars end that 50% of each factory is still in production.
Other wise keep with the current agenda. When you place drastic limitations then you are reproducing the SEA where squads sign up to volitairaly accept these limitations for 2hrs a week.
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Originally posted by TheBug
Sometimes I'm REEEAL BAD and need to be punished.
Come spank me Slash.
I just got a visual - and now I don't feel so good. :confused:
:D
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Don't feel so good as in "you're going to lock yourself in the bathroom with the cocoa butter" so good?:aok
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Well I'm glad the conversation got back on track. Lots of insightful stuff there. It would indeed be punishing everyone who flies in a professional manner and doesn't bomb n' bail.
Perhaps using something like deployment points, or suffering a -1 to the number of aircraft chosen after each round?
Take the Kills/Death ratio of fighters and bombers or some combination or parameter there-in. If your side has a worse K/D ratio than the other side, they lose the ability to chose 1 plane, or say, 2-3 deployment points?
For that to work though, you'd have to enable proxy kills and make sure that all deaths/bails are attributed to that statistic.
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Hi Chapel!
Well, the K/D factor alone is very unfair and stimulates timid flying. That's why I chose to put it only as a moderator of the total sorties/total landed ratio, wich shows more accuratelly the attrition factor.
The only twist here is the moderation of the raw sorties ratio by the K/D factor, in itself a raw success indicator. The point is in landing the planes with kills, not bailing out to avoid beeing killed.
This would have to be calculated for each and every player, split by fighter/bomber/GV class, then calculated to the whole Axis or Allied side.
One side could be doing very well in fighters and poorly in bombers...so, it would keep his fighters but would have one bomber model disabled since his Sparrow Factor got activated, until performance improved again and that model was enabled again. Like a switch, do well, all fine, start losing too many machines, you're disabled until you recover your ratio...
The beauty of this system resides in not needing to introduce supply code and mechanisms like fighter factories, bomber factories or GV/Boat factories, and force to keep supply lines open by server action.
All it needs to do is recalculate the factor for both sides every hour or so...and proceed as instructed...
Cheers
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Well if there is a time limit set ill have to fly in another Arena due to the lack of no skill especially in the Axis Planes i cant fly them very good.
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captain1ma, and indy007, I agree with your posts completely. :aok
I know it's ultra-frustrating to be killed when you're powerless to do anything about it (i.e. vulching etc.).
Don't forget that vulching almost invariably occurs when the enemy's trying to take a field. For those of you who think there should be a spawn timer/limiter to represent being shot down (not necessarily for realism purposes) need to realise that field captures ARE NOT realistic!!! :O :O Moreover, in the MA, IMO most people appear to play to have a good time, as this is a GAME, and by definition is intended for the purposes of entertainment. I am one of these people, and as far as reality is concerned, I set my own levels of it (it's probably a fair conclusion that most other people do this also), depending on the situation.
Overall, when I'm fighting in the MA, I'm willing to use whatever methods I see fit to defeat my opponent(s), be it vulching, HOs, alt-monkeys etc (as long as they're within the game rules). I know it's annoying to be killed in any way, but it's only reasonable to expect the enemy will do the same to you. If you propose to get rid of vulching just because it's annoying to the 'vulched player', I suggest that the Me-262s hanging around HQs should be forbidden to shoot down players who have just been on a 2 hour flight, as that's super annoying. :mad:
Chapel
I realize the SAME thing happening with Ju-88's and Allied bombers as well ... Seems like the losses are staggering and would in all likelyhood cripple a fields supply of aircraft if this type of tactic were kept up and prevelant ... This would keep people from Bomb n' Bailing, and wasting aircraft in a loose manner ... But it's crazy to see people porking fields with no loss of life, airframe, or any responsibility to thier actions.
I agree with your points about realism. Just remember that this is a game, and it is not real. I mean no disrespect here, but if you (or anyone else who reads this) are to continue campaigning for more realistic game play, just remember: Pearl Harbour was an example of real life vulching. Two pilots, George Welch and Ken Taylor, took off from another field. They shot down a total of 6 planes.
The moral is: if you don't want to be vulched, spawn from another field. Deprive the vulchers of their prey. That'll fix the problem. This goes for the other tactics mentioned earlier such as HOs - if you don't like it, learn to counter it.
Yossarian
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Actually I'm not frustrated at all when I get vulched. If I willingly up when there's 3-4 guys overhead, I expect it. I would do the same in their shoes on the rare occasions I'm helping a capture.
They'll run out of bullets before I run out of airplanes.
The only thing I hate in AH2, and it goes for the entire game, is taking more than 2 minutes to get into a fight.
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Originally posted by indy007
The only thing I hate in AH2, and it goes for the entire game, is taking more than 2 minutes to get into a fight.
....which is why the claim that you can always up from another field leaves me cold. Our AvA maps tend to have closer bases than those on the MA maps, but depending on location, it can still take quite a long time to get back to the fight.
- oldman (hate vulchers. hate hate hate)
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I'm with you oldman, I hate vulchers too. But when taking into account field capturing, it's just about the only way to take a field without unloading half a squadron of heavy bombers (which also gets booo'd too).
Kind of a give and take thing I suppose.
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Originally posted by Chapel
I'm with you oldman, I hate vulchers too. But when taking into account field capturing, it's just about the only way to take a field without unloading half a squadron of heavy bombers (which also gets booo'd too).
Kind of a give and take thing I suppose.
I can somewhat accept the base capture vulches if it has to be done. I don't like it, but I can at least understand it.
However because ack seems to stay down forever, I've seen quite a few times, that a base was deacked only to have a con or two waiting trying to vulch like dweebs. They aren't there to capture the base but only trying to get no skill easy kills.
I still don't understand why the ack stays down so long at air fields in this arena and I really see no good reason for it. If it popped in 15 mins like the MA (think that's the time) it would discourage these random base vulchers.
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In my opinion, down times on all structures and acks should be directly tied to how many strats are down. This would encourage using the strats as well as reward the defense of the strats.
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You know I was just talking to someone about friendly collisions, and a possible solution to "rewarding" pilots who land thier aircraft came to mind.
If you land your aircraft, you can take off from the spawn point at the end of a runway.
If you're shot down/ bail etc, then you have to taxi from the hanger.
It's not a time penalty per se in the tower, but it forces you to taxi out onto the runway to take off, which takes a little paitience and a short bit of time.
It also makes it harder to lift from a CAPPED field, because if you're shot down and killed, you have to TAXI out to the runway to take off, making it tougher on you for losing the airframe.
Not sure if they can code it that way, but seems intresting.
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I never taxi to the runway if I'm flying out of a hanger. You can up anything out of a FH on auto take off and never hit a thing. BH's might be different for bomber groups but IL2, B25H and A20's all take off fine on auto.
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So disable auto-takeoff.
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Originally posted by Chapel
So disable auto-takeoff.
I think what he is meaning is that it is just as easy to takeoff from a hanger as it is an airfield. There's really no 'punishment' to it. Bombers would be more difficult, but fighters and non formation bombers would be fine.