Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Larry on January 28, 2008, 09:20:31 PM
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mn38 was on our side trying to sink a rook CV. About thirty minutes later I see a lone dot heading to TG7 that it about 75miles from the front line and maybe 25 miles off shore. Only way to know it ws there is if you were searching for CVs or if you did what mn38 did and switch sides. So I hop in a 5"er and see a set of B26s coming right for the CV. Killed them all but thats not the point. We need to do something about people switching sides and knowing stuff they souldnt. Few days ago some one was on our side and switched "because of numbers" which were like 11-5. About 2 mins before we said "ok two goons heading for A## is town still down?" When we get to the town the guy who switched knew we were coming and went right for us.
If we ever do this "war" thing again I ask that the mods set time limit to that frame (one week).
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We can adjust the change-sides feature to the MA standard of 24 hours or 24 days -what ever you guys need.
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I have to agree with TK on this; I witnessed both counts he mentions. I personally feel we need a much longer change sides future than we have now. I know some will gripe about side balancing, but side balance will naturally shift back and forth through out the day. I don't mind being out numbered because I know sooner or later they will be out numbered. I know I'd much rather fly out numbered than have a guy that helped me close a base switch sides and shoot down our c-47s.
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Agreed.
I think 1 week is plenty good. Though I'm sure some will complain.
At least this way they can't gleen uselfull information as it'd be out of date.
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No, my opinion, not a whole week. I say 24-48 hours. That would be better.
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The answer is not to increase the time to change sides, the answer is to stop the people who do it for the wrong reason. This is no different than vulching except that there is an arena setting related to it.
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Hey fellas- That might be a terrible idea.
I know where everyone's coming from, especially with the CV's. But the biggest problem is, That some of us that change sides to even the Bal. (I do) might have to jump every hour, sometimes' sooner. When numbers' are lower, moving even a few people can unbalance sides' even more. Usually, I limit my jumping to when one side get's to have a 5-player advantage over the other. However, when numbers are lower, say, 10-15 players a side, I might jump sooner. When arena #'s are lower, only 2 or 3 people might give too much of an advantage to one side or the other.
My only exception is when my squad flies in there (The 367th.) Tonight, for example, Dh and Cooley thought it would be cool to have squad night in the AvA. We did, and everyone had a blast. But, we all came in on the allied side, about 6:00-6:30ish PST. because the sides were 32-34 Bish(Axis) and 22-26 rook (allied.) So, we went rook and flew for the allies.
To make a long story short, we can either (a.) put up with side imbalance, sometimes grossly so, to preserve things' like CV and aircraft availability, or we can (b.) take our chances, but have the ability to keep things' on an even keel. I vote for even sides.
To fix the spying problem, I propose this, among you Allied/axis commanders: If someone is caught doing this again, The side that the perpatrator comes' from, should be forced to reveal like information about their own side. So thusly, if say Chapel 'pops' over into the axis, and just sits in the maproom, looking around, and going to different fields' and looking at things' like aircraft availability, or CV postitions, and is caught doing it, then Truekill should be allowed to come over and do the same. My theory is that if the penalty might allow a 'backfire' of said spy attempt, then the incentive to do it will be considerably dampened. You fellas' see what you think.
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Truekill that is not the full story and the numbers were almost 3 to 1. I announced over country channel that i was switching sides, i stated which field i was going to up, i even told you guys it was ok to try and vulch me. What exactly did you expect me to do? It was the only field being attacked. I didn't go straight for your goons either, it's not my fault the 109s led me straight to you. Of course i was going to shoot the goons down if i saw them. It's not my fault the 109s chose to pretty much ignore me until i shot you down. You post indicates that i knew where the goons were, which i didn't. I knew goons were inbound, but i had no idea from where, but then any base with a CAP over it is more than likely to have a goon inbound.
You may enjoy having a massive numbers advantage, i don't particularly care for it. I switched sides yesterday when the allies had massive numbers, i had no complaints the allies, infact they wished me well.
I hope you sent that film, Truekill.:rofl Here's my film (http://www.4shared.com/file/36281356/eff3d22a/ava.html), i'll let you decide for yourself if i went straight for your goons or not.
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This is really only a problem when CVs are involved. I think if anyone wants to cheat bad enough. they can do it for an extra 15 buck under a second account. Maybe its worth forcing them to pay it if they have to wanna cheat that bad, maybe it just makes it harder for guys who like to side switch and play fairly.
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That was the full story I only left out the name, but since you want to talk about it. We said we were rolling goons from the cv heading to the base. You said the numbers were uneven. They were 2 to 1 our side you said you were ganna roll from that base and before I could tell you something you were already there. The two goons were heading into the town when an ack poped. I asked a fighter to deack it real fast and he did I start droping troops and here comes a spit right for us, the other two enemy fighters didnt see us but somehow you did. Bad thing about it was we never took that base, if it wasnt for you we would have. What you did is as bad as what MN did and just the same as having two accounts just to spy on one country.
As others said I would rather be out numberd then have someone know intel they shouldnt just becuase they felt like "evening the numbers".
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keep in mind that MN38 is a young lad. I don't mean for that to be an excuse and he should be called on it but he is a boy and not a man.
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and now for my 2 cents. I pick a side, i stay with it. i have not changed sides once due to imbalances. its like a condition of the game. sometimes we have enough guys, sometimes we're outnumberbered-- so what!! pick a side and stay with it. i dont know how many times ive been flying and will have a guy with me and then all of a sudden hes blasting me out of the sky because he switched sides. not my idea of fun. those of you who think you're doing us a favor by switching....dont. the axis can deal with anything that arises. we are a much stronger group of sticks, if we're out numbered, so much the better. we just rack up the points. if you feel you need to switch sides, go play in the MA. All switchers should be considered spies and be shot on sight!! hehehehe sorry just getting into the moment. anyway my advice would be to pick a side and stay with it. its much better that way. bad feeling are brought by switching. again just my 2 cents. have a nice day :)
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Hey fellas- That might be a terrible idea.
I know where everyone's coming from, especially with the CV's. But the biggest problem is, That some of us that change sides to even the Bal. (I do) might have to jump every hour, sometimes' sooner. When numbers' are lower, moving even a few people can unbalance sides' even more. Usually, I limit my jumping to when one side get's to have a 5-player advantage over the other. However, when numbers are lower, say, 10-15 players a side, I might jump sooner. When arena #'s are lower, only 2 or 3 people might give too much of an advantage to one side or the other.
My only exception is when my squad flies in there (The 367th.) Tonight, for example, Dh and Cooley thought it would be cool to have squad night in the AvA. We did, and everyone had a blast. But, we all came in on the allied side, about 6:00-6:30ish PST. because the sides were 32-34 Bish(Axis) and 22-26 rook (allied.) So, we went rook and flew for the allies.
To make a long story short, we can either (a.) put up with side imbalance, sometimes grossly so, to preserve things' like CV and aircraft availability, or we can (b.) take our chances, but have the ability to keep things' on an even keel. I vote for even sides.
To fix the spying problem, I propose this, among you Allied/axis commanders: If someone is caught doing this again, The side that the perpatrator comes' from, should be forced to reveal like information about their own side. So thusly, if say Chapel 'pops' over into the axis, and just sits in the maproom, looking around, and going to different fields' and looking at things' like aircraft availability, or CV postitions, and is caught doing it, then Truekill should be allowed to come over and do the same. My theory is that if the penalty might allow a 'backfire' of said spy attempt, then the incentive to do it will be considerably dampened. You fellas' see what you think.
Well spoken. Especially for one who seems to like the switching. Although with your skill at getting a goon off the CV, we probably shouldn't worry a lot. Did it hurt much?
Cast your lot for a side, stay there for a whole round, period. Piss up a rope if you or your squad choose unwisely. Screw the numbers. They even out from time to time and not because guys are trying to "even things out".
If not one whole round, why even bother with having segregated forums? Why did we need to choose a side in the first place?
If I had only one complaint, this would be it.
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The problem is not just this one little incident, the real problem is that this could happen to either side at any time. If a 24 hour side swiching timeout is the best solition available then lets impliment it.
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Originally posted by heythere
keep in mind that MN38 is a young lad. I don't mean for that to be an excuse and he should be called on it but he is a boy and not a man.
Heythere,
No offense to you at all, but. Look...... deep into my eyes.............and......... .
tell me when or if you find someone who gives a flying
This switching sides is garbage. Take away the choice. Once per round, heck even let em earn medals for it. I know (if I am correct) that medals are forfeit right now if you switch sides.
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Gotta back up VonMessa....
Switching sides is not only counter-productive, but is always construed as downright mean, by those of us who stick with one side or the other. Switching sides subtracts from the over all immersion that the new AvA was designed to create... If you wanna play dirty, go back to the Ma. Please?!
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Heythere,
No offense to you at all, but. Look...... deep into my eyes.............and......... .
tell me when or if you find someone who gives a flying
This switching sides is garbage. Take away the choice. Once per round, heck even let em earn medals for it. I know (if I am correct) that medals are forfeit right now if you switch sides.
Because I'd rather forfeit a cartoon medal than forfeit the fun-which has already happened with more than a few people, who have come in and tried it, then left.
A side imbalance only encourages the 'dweeb' behaviour that many here have fled from in the MA. The hording. The vulching. The Milkrunning. Too many people on one side or another seems' to cause this. HTC realized this, that is why in the MA, there is an ENY.
Now, I know that this is a different situation than the MA, in here. However, to make this work, we have to police ourselves. That is both sides of the ball; I won't, and can't, condone MN38's behaviour. That is simply 'gaming the game', as-it-were. However, the reason that many have called this the "mini-MA" is noticably in those periods' when the side imbalance is the greatest. IMHO, this is the biggest issue facing the AvA right now.
The AvA hasn't seen numbers' like this in a long time. Which explains' why this problem has cropped up. Scenario's and snapshots' are directly controlled by an arena master, which is part of the reason for their success.
In here, Slash and Soda are more lenient with us, mainly because this event takes place over so many hours, and most likely they can't be on all the time. This is the time that we need to step up to the plate and police ourselves...so let's watch the balance, eh?
P.S. Yes, It took more than one try to fly the goon off of the CV. Never did it before.
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he's a kid!!! no offense taken but kids do kidstuff. he's also playing on his dad's account. his dad is a standup guy. lighten up fellows
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Originally posted by thrila
Truekill that is not the full story....
Oh but it is.
I was one of the goons you plastered. The numbers had actually gotten better when you switched. You knew the goons were feet dry and minutes from the town. I was flying in a roundabout arc to get to the town away from the upped aircraft...then a lone con comes straight for me...lo and behold...
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Originally posted by captain1ma
and now for my 2 cents. I pick a side, i stay with it.
I agree. Once someone joins for the war, they should be tied to that side for the duration of the round. If there is an issue of one side being oppressively large (doubtful), the admins can divvy up the squads as needed.
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Oh please! view the film, i flew in the opposite direction setting up my views for the first minute. If i thought the goons were imminent don't you think i would have headed straight to the town. Do my actions in my film look like i knew where there were? Most of my time headed to the town is me scanning my views checking for cons, i had no idea where there were, their alt or how many there were.
You're right the sides had evened up after i changed. When i landed my first sortie since i changed the odds were only 11-6.
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh33/thrila/ava.jpg)
It may not bother you having overwhelming numbers and hording a base. But to me it is rather dull. If the numbers are significantly different i will change to the side with fewer pilots. I have no affiliation with either side. Ganging a con with 3 or 4 others isn't particularly enjoyable.
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Again, what is the point of separate forums? The arena should probably follow suit to a point. The way it is now, an individual can pick up intel, and go right to the other side with it without even changing their uniform.
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hmmmm
looks like frankc1 is bypassing the profanity filter....
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probably a good thing storch hasn't been tuning 200.
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Originally posted by Larry
mn38 was on our side trying to sink a rook CV. About thirty minutes later I see a lone dot heading to TG7 that it about 75miles from the front line and maybe 25 miles off shore. Only way to know it ws there is if you were searching for CVs or if you did what mn38 did and switch sides. So I hop in a 5"er and see a set of B26s coming right for the CV. Killed them all but thats not the point. We need to do something about people switching sides and knowing stuff they souldnt. Few days ago some one was on our side and switched "because of numbers" which were like 11-5. About 2 mins before we said "ok two goons heading for A## is town still down?" When we get to the town the guy who switched knew we were coming and went right for us.
If we ever do this "war" thing again I ask that the mods set time limit to that frame (one week).
Well on the CV thing I can see your point, but the other could have just been luck.
I've switched sides a few times to help even things out. The night before last when we had that big battle for 57. I logged off right after we captured that base and sides were fairly even.
I logged back in about a hour or so later to see side way unbalanced, so I switched sides but before I did I told everyone on the Allies team I was going to do it.
I upped out of a base started getting some alt, next thing yea know I see 4 dots coming in at 64, I end up killing 3 of the 4. Now in the time I switched and upped and the time it took them to get there I have to assume they were already in the air when I switched.
So it would make me look like a side switching mission buster, however I have to say it was just pure dumb luck. I didn't have a clue they were attacking that base. It was just dumb luck, I upped at one of the two front line bases they happened to attack.
If I switch sides I'll fly for the side I'm on and won't give intell to either side, hell I almost saved that base for you guys but was about 30 secs late in a M8 to kill the troops.
So just like anything else, there will be people whom game the game. The best you can ask is to have a side switcher tell the team he's flying on that he is switching sides. This at least gives that team a chance to change their plans if they feel they need to.
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Originally posted by soda72
hmmmm
looks like frankc1 is bypassing the profanity filter....
Sounds like some is gonna get Soda-Popped.
:eek:
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Again, what is the point of separate forums? The arena should probably follow suit to a point. The way it is now, an individual can pick up intel, and go right to the other side with it without even changing their uniform.
The problem with that is the hours each team has the most users tends to be different. So the only chance to even things up is to have guys whom aren't members of the team forums switch sides.
Prime time seems to be the only times teams tend to be even any other times one team always seems to have 60ish% and the other 30ish%
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I am with Vonmessa on this one. Make a commitment to one or the other and stick with it. Disallow side-switching completely. I am willing to take on the hoard, and be part of it the next. I appreciate you "side-balancing" guys, but there is no need to balance if those who are aligned are willing to deal with the consequences. The best solution is for all of us who enjoy this arena as it is, promote the living hell out of it. We just need more bodies on both sides of the fence.
Oink
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Originally posted by waystin2
I am with Vonmessa on this one. Make a commitment to one or the other and stick with it. Disallow side-switching completely. I am willing to take on the hoard, and be part of it the next. I appreciate you "side-balancing" guys, but there is no need to balance if those who are aligned are willing to deal with the consequences. The best solution is for all of us who enjoy this arena as it is, promote the living hell out of it. We just need more bodies on both sides of the fence.
Oink
either way way I'm having more fun in the AVA than the whack-a-mole MA. I've tried to get my squad to come on in but It's falling on def ears, so I've started my own AVA squad with my brother.
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Again, where is the secrecy? If not a member of forums, where does the loyalty lie?
Mercenaries, eh? Sell to the highest bidder.
But seriously, mission objectives given in the forum are invariably going to be vocalized on country text, range, etc. Someone who is ...err....."neutral" has no incentive to either keep mum, or to spill the beans with wild abandon. Bye bye surprise. Forget feint tactics, decoys, superficial attacks, et al. That kinda ruins certain aspects of gameplay as dictated by the arena setup.
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Heythere,
No offense to you at all, but. Look...... deep into my eyes.............and......... .
tell me when or if you find someone who gives a flying
This switching sides is garbage. Take away the choice. Once per round, heck even let em earn medals for it. I know (if I am correct) that medals are forfeit right now if you switch sides.
Hmmmm.
Do you think perhaps you're taking this setup just a bit too seriously? We aren't awarding cash prizes to the winning team, nor are we executing the families of the losers. Unless you're staff, you are restricted to one side's BBS forums, whether you switch sides or not. If there's someone who is childish enough to play secret agent and report the best laid plans of mice and men to the enemy....how in the world is that a big enough deal to get people this upset? More: how can you find honest satisfaction in swarming the other side because you have 2-1 odds?
This setup has been running very well, drawing in new folks, and most everyone has been having a good time - and all the while, there have been people switching sides to even the numbers and make for a better contest. All of them do it knowing that they have forfeited their chance to collect medals or awards, but they do it in hopes of improving the experience for everyone. Classifying their behavior as "garbage" is grossly unfair.
Come on, folks. It's a war game, not a real war.
- oldman
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Again, where is the secrecy? If not a member of forums, where does the loyalty lie?
Mercenaries, eh? Sell to the highest bidder.
But seriously, mission objectives given in the forum are invariably going to be vocalized on country text, range, etc. Someone who is ...err....."neutral" has no incentive to either keep mum, or to spill the beans with wild abandon. Bye bye surprise. Forget feint tactics, decoys, superficial attacks, et al. That kinda ruins certain aspects of gameplay as dictated by the arena setup.
Well if you are really worried about it that much.. Just think of it as another realm of realism to the game. In the war all sides had spys.
I can say when Thrilla was on our side not once did I see him give away any Axis secrets. Same as when I switched to the Axis a few times.. I know for a fact there is not one Axis whom can say I gave them any info on the Allies. I also know for a fact there is not one Allie that can say I gave up any info on the Axis when I switched back.
Just remember not everyone wants to be part of a hoarde. Hell I wanted to switch to Axis yesterday when Allies took A64 to help you guys out, but they talked me out of it. So I just went AFK for awhile until it was even again.
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Originally posted by captain1ma
and now for my 2 cents. I pick a side, i stay with it. i have not changed sides once due to imbalances. its like a condition of the game. sometimes we have enough guys, sometimes we're outnumberbered-- so what!! pick a side and stay with it. i dont know how many times ive been flying and will have a guy with me and then all of a sudden hes blasting me out of the sky because he switched sides. not my idea of fun. those of you who think you're doing us a favor by switching....dont. the axis can deal with anything that arises. we are a much stronger group of sticks, if we're out numbered, so much the better. we just rack up the points. if you feel you need to switch sides, go play in the MA. All switchers should be considered spies and be shot on sight!! hehehehe sorry just getting into the moment. anyway my advice would be to pick a side and stay with it. its much better that way. bad feeling are brought by switching. again just my 2 cents. have a nice day :)
(shakes head sadly....)
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Because I'd rather forfeit a cartoon medal than forfeit the fun-which has already happened with more than a few people, who have come in and tried it, then left.
A side imbalance only encourages the 'dweeb' behaviour that many here have fled from in the MA. The hording. The vulching. The Milkrunning. Too many people on one side or another seems' to cause this. HTC realized this, that is why in the MA, there is an ENY.
Now, I know that this is a different situation than the MA, in here. However, to make this work, we have to police ourselves. That is both sides of the ball; I won't, and can't, condone MN38's behaviour. That is simply 'gaming the game', as-it-were. However, the reason that many have called this the "mini-MA" is noticably in those periods' when the side imbalance is the greatest. IMHO, this is the biggest issue facing the AvA right now
:aok
Originally posted by thrila
It may not bother you having overwhelming numbers and hording a base. But to me it is rather dull. If the numbers are significantly different i will change to the side with fewer pilots. I have no affiliation with either side. Ganging a con with 3 or 4 others isn't particularly enjoyable.
:aok
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Actually, what I'd like to see is the Commanders have a little more control over their people. If one side has a gross inbalance, then use some of the extras to fly supply missions.
Two or three extra fighters is all that should be needed to take a base, not 10-12. Take those extra dudes and have them fly supply missions to bring their bases back up to 100%.
Now they shouldn't require them to do that all night, spread out the supply missions among everyone until the numbers even out, and then let them have at it. It's all about force management.
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Originally posted by thrila
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh33/thrila/ava.jpg)
Oh look, a mini MA.
CH 200 should be turned off in the AvA.
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Originally posted by republic
Oh but it is.
I was one of the goons you plastered. The numbers had actually gotten better when you switched. You knew the goons were feet dry and minutes from the town. I was flying in a roundabout arc to get to the town away from the upped aircraft...then a lone con comes straight for me...lo and behold...
I'm curious if you looked at the film (actually you couldnt since i'm the only one who's actually downloaded it)? He upped to defend a field, not rocket science to "know" goons are inbound. I'd put the blame on your "CAP" not on the guy who killed you.
I'm amazed at all the garbage from guys who didnt even bother to view the "evidence":rofl
He flew away from the goons to start, there was a 2nd spit as well and the 109's were poorly positioned to escort.
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Originally posted by humble
I'm curious if you looked at the film (actually you couldnt since i'm the only one who's actually downloaded it)? He upped to defend a field, not rocket science to "know" goons are inbound. I'd put the blame on your "CAP" not on the guy who killed you.
I'm amazed at all the garbage from guys who didnt even bother to view the "evidence":rofl
It's just lame play. He could have switched when the sides were grossly imbalanced. He could have swapped then and fought us off before the town was down, before the field was soft... But no, he waited until the goons were minutes away. I don't mind someone swapping sides, but participating in a base capture and then swapping over just as it is almost complete is just immature....no film can redeem that.
I didn't post about this when it happened because I just added him to my growing list of players to avoid, and went on with life. He's the one that brought his name up. :)
It's not the end of the world, but we do need a timer to make sure that once someone picks a side they are somewhat dependent on it's survival.
I'd like to have the sides locked in at the beginning of each round but, I understand some people just want a good fight and don't really care about which side wins the war. Nevertheless, at the very least we need a 24 hour timer.
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Originally posted by Larry
mn38 was on our side trying to sink a rook CV. About thirty minutes later I see a lone dot heading to TG7 that it about 75miles from the front line and maybe 25 miles off shore. Only way to know it ws there is if you were searching for CVs or if you did what mn38 did and switch sides. So I hop in a 5"er and see a set of B26s coming right for the CV. Killed them all but thats not the point. We need to do something about people switching sides and knowing stuff they souldnt. Few days ago some one was on our side and switched "because of numbers" which were like 11-5. About 2 mins before we said "ok two goons heading for A## is town still down?" When we get to the town the guy who switched knew we were coming and went right for us.
Lets have only one side. That way everyone can have fun and we wont have to deal with any oposition, errrrr, spies :aok
Your horde could not take care of 1 guy? :aok
If we ever do this "war" thing again I ask that the mods set time limit to that frame (one week).
Lets hope not:aok
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ok, republic. You are now entering a world of pure fantasy, there's no need to make things up to aid your argument. At no point did i participate in that field capture, if you could dig up some film i would be pretty amazed, because it never happened. I was up north defending a base against a cv, shooting down the same couple of guys and dropping torps until it no longer fun against a side with few players.
Also, i switched sides when they were grosely inbalanced! That was the precise point of switching sides. Why would i switch if they were even? My whole argument for switching sides all this time is because of the inbalance. Have you even read my posts? Watched the film? looked at the screenshot?
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Originally posted by thrila
ok, republic. You are now entering a world of pure fantasy ....
:huh Not quite sure how to respond to that. I was there btw... Maybe I wasn't...maybe I'm not really here now. I'm so confused...
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
We can adjust the change-sides feature to the MA standard of 24 hours or 24 days -what ever you guys need.
At the very least 24 hours sounds like a good number. What say ye AvA community?
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Originally posted by republic
At the very least 24 hours sounds like a good number. What say ye AvA community?
Seems like a good idea, until you accidentally switch countries to the one in the corner. You know, the one with no planes or bases or GVs.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
Seems like a good idea, until you accidentally switch countries to the one in the corner. You know, the one with no planes or bases or GVs.
Didn't think of that, that would definitely be unhandy lol
I assume you can't make a side unpickable or they'd have already done that.
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I did that the other night trying to join some squaddies after having missed the whole 're-imagining the AvA' thing. What's it set to now, like 40 minutes?
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From what I saw the sides were grossly imbalanced...
Here's my view...
The goons died for a couple of reasons...
1) the 109's were right with the goons. From thrilla's view he's just flying to the action, he cant see the icons till 2.5.
2) The goons had no combat spacing and were poorly flown. He got both goons in 1 pass with the 2nd being an immediate transition. Had the goons had proper spacing, flown any decent evasives at all and reacted to the threat the likely hood is one might have survived.
3) there was a 2nd spitty right there, even if thrilla hadnt have upped the other spit avoided a zeke and was seperately inbound and would have killed the goons (IMO) just as easily.
This was poor planning and tactics and it appeared that you were relying on your numbers and local superiority. Had the 109's and goons maintained proper combat spacing then thrilla would have been engaged well before he reached the C-47's.
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Originally posted by humble
From what I saw the sides were grossly imbalanced...
Here's my view...
The goons died for a couple of reasons...
1) the 109's were right with the goons. From thrilla's view he's just flying to the action, he cant see the icons till 2.5.
2) The goons had no combat spacing and were poorly flown. He got both goons in 1 pass with the 2nd being an immediate transition. Had the goons had proper spacing, flown any decent evasives at all and reacted to the threat the likely hood is one might have survived.
3) there was a 2nd spitty right there, even if thrilla hadnt have upped the other spit avoided a zeke and was seperately inbound and would have killed the goons (IMO) just as easily.
This was poor planning and tactics and it appeared that you were relying on your numbers and local superiority. Had the 109's and goons maintained proper combat spacingf then thrilla would have been engaged well before he reached the C-47's.
Or...he knew right where the C-47's where because he just saw them moments before he swapped.
I thought this discussion was over already?
Lets talk about how to stop this from happening again, not arguing about who did what to whom.
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republic do you even read my posts? I wasn't at that base. The argument of 'who did what to whom' is critical because you are acusing me of doing something i did not. Unless you can provide evidence of course, which you can't- because i wasn't there. Perhaps you couls ask truekill, he was with you and had filmed. At no point during the course of the evening was in the vicinity of the said base on the side of the axis.
You need to accept that there was no malice in my side switching, in fact the exact opposite.
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Originally posted by thrila
You need to accept that there was no malice in my side switching, in fact the exact opposite.
Would you at least concede that it might have looked VERY suspicious from our point of view?
Thus, imo, the need to have a swap timer. So at the very least when someone swaps they are committed for 24 hours to that particular side.
I really would like to know if someone is keeping track of which side generally is outnumbered. I'm sure that the Allies feel they are always outnumbered because the Axis generally feels that way too. Some real numbers would be handy.
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Originally posted by republic
Or...he knew right where the C-47's where because he just saw them moments before he swapped.
I thought this discussion was over already?
Lets talk about how to stop this from happening again, not arguing about who did what to whom.
It's only fair, since people are questioning his integrity, that he is given the full benefit of the doubt. We already have had enough flames', accusations, and chest thumping in the last week, than we've had in any whole year of the AvA forums' alltogether.
Milkrunning and hoarding have already driven some players' out; the AvA can't really afford to lose many more, IMHO. This is everyones' sandbox, because without people, There is no AvA.
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Originally posted by republic
At the very least 24 hours sounds like a good number. What say ye AvA community?
No.
Sounds like a BAD idea to me.
Have trouble with a hangnail? Let's cut off the hand so it won't be a problem anymore.
Over-reaction to what has turned out to be a nearly non-existent problem (at the very least non-existent in the case that brought the subject up).
How much fun do you think you will be having when the numbers happen to be 30 vs 2 an no one can switch to even the sides? Zip, zero, zilch.
Bad idea. Bad bad bad idea.
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Originally posted by 1Duke1
Actually, what I'd like to see is the Commanders have a little more control over their people. If one side has a gross inbalance, then use some of the extras to fly supply missions.
Two or three extra fighters is all that should be needed to take a base, not 10-12. Take those extra dudes and have them fly supply missions to bring their bases back up to 100%.
Now they shouldn't require them to do that all night, spread out the supply missions among everyone until the numbers even out, and then let them have at it. It's all about force management.
As Allied commander, I gotta point out that in no way whatsoever do I have any "Control" over any pilots flying allied. People will do what they want, when they want, regardless of what I have to say.
I can however influence and attempt to persuade, rally, and coerce pilots into doing something I want. =)
I have on countless times asked pilots to do one thing or another, only to either be ignored, or just plain not noticed.
It's VERY difficult to get someone to do something they don't want to do. All I can do is ask in as nice a way as I can for help. But it's also all about fun. Numbers fluctuate BOTH ways. Outnumbering always rights itself at some point or another. It's just the nature of this game, or any game like this.
We just have to act with integrity and do what each of us thinks is right. Because there's a LOT of ways to unscrupulously ruin this setup. I have to believe though, HAVE to believe, that most - if not ALL pilots act in a way that's not grossly unfair and imature.
For the record, I support a 24hr time change, but I also have to say I those pilots willing to forego aliegence and help balance sides.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Hmmmm.
Do you think perhaps you're taking this setup just a bit too seriously? We aren't awarding cash prizes to the winning team, nor are we executing the families of the losers. Unless you're staff, you are restricted to one side's BBS forums, whether you switch sides or not. If there's someone who is childish enough to play secret agent and report the best laid plans of mice and men to the enemy....how in the world is that a big enough deal to get people this upset? More: how can you find honest satisfaction in swarming the other side because you have 2-1 odds?
This setup has been running very well, drawing in new folks, and most everyone has been having a good time - and all the while, there have been people switching sides to even the numbers and make for a better contest. All of them do it knowing that they have forfeited their chance to collect medals or awards, but they do it in hopes of improving the experience for everyone. Classifying their behavior as "garbage" is grossly unfair.
Come on, folks. It's a war game, not a real war.
- oldman
I know where you live..:t :noid :rofl
but seriously......
I understand that it is not real, but the time I invest in the immersion and gameplay IS. It's not even about my $15, either.
I guess the point is about when well laid plans are foiled when someone switches sides to drop a big steaming one on them. There are a few times when the switch was VERY convenient. I, personally, don't want to know THEIR plans either. It ruins the strategy of it. Moreover, how many of the new people that have been wooed here are going to stay if their plans are frustrated by such behavior on a routine basis?
I don't need to name names, nor do I need film. A good definition of integrity is "how an individual behaves or acts when they think that nobody else is watching them". These folks know who they are. This is the "garbage" I refer to. Switching sides to balance things out is very noble. Doing it to get free and easy kills, captures, etc is not.
* Aces High account $15
* Planning a mission 15 min.
* Time flying during said mission (up to) 1/2 hour +/-
* Arriving at mission objective to find 5 NME cons at 15-20K waiting for you, one of them being a guy you just flew a sortie with?
Garbage
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Originally posted by VonMessa
I don't need to name names, nor do I need film. A good definition of integrity is "how an individual behaves or acts when they think that nobody else is watching them". These folks know who they are. This is the "garbage" I refer to. Switching sides to balance things out is very noble. Doing it to get free and easy kills, captures, etc is not.
some folks will never get that principle. to you and to those that do.
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Cast your lot for a side, stay there for a whole round, period. Piss up a rope if you or your squad choose unwisely. Screw the numbers. They even out from time to time and not because guys are trying to "even things out".
If not one whole round, why even bother with having segregated forums? Why did we need to choose a side in the first place?
Because not every person who participates in the AvA and the new War have declared one side or the other. Some prefer to have less invested in the outcome, but this does not mean they can not participate at a level less than those committed for the long haul. Why force those who choose not to throw in with one side to fly for one side anyway? I see your point, but not everyone that switches sides does so for nefarious reasons.
I guess the point is about when well laid plans are foiled when someone switches sides to drop a big steaming one on them. There are a few times when the switch was VERY convenient. I, personally, don't want to know THEIR plans either. It ruins the strategy of it. Moreover, how many of the new people that have been wooed here are going to stay if their plans are frustrated by such behavior on a routine basis?
I don't need to name names, nor do I need film. A good definition of integrity is "how an individual behaves or acts when they think that nobody else is watching them". These folks know who they are. This is the "garbage" I refer to. Switching sides to balance things out is very noble. Doing it to get free and easy kills, captures, etc is not.[/B]
Another lesson on CT/AvA history. My Squad The Gunfighters, of whom Oldman is a founding member, was started for the expressed purpose of switching sides to keep things even. Its what we do, and we do it out of principle not greed for kills. We have been doing it for almost four years, and I think you will be very hard pressed to find anyone on either side of the AvA that will say we do it to spy or use side switching to any advantage. On the contrary, we by definition fly for whatever side is low in numbers, not the other way around. Ask TK or any of the other members of JG54, they may have issues with me for other reasons, but it will not be because of side switching I am confident they will say I am not a security risk. We pride ourselves on being able to switch back and forth with both sides knowing we will not blow any mishuns or give away info.
I say if you must restrict side switching, make it a couple of hours or so, not the entire scenario.
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I havent been flying AH very long but for the most part the Squads i've dealt with in the AvA are very honorable and fly with pride and integrity. That being said maybe a few hours is better than a 24 hour lock on side switching.
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(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/BeatDeadHorse.gif)
a thousand words......