Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Guppy35 on January 29, 2008, 03:55:37 PM
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It's amazing, and I know it happens anytime we get a new plane that isn't uber, but don't condemn the 39 before we even get it.
All kinds of whining in the arena today. All kinds of Wings Channel 'facts' being spewed about how terrible the 39 was, how little it was used, all it's problems etc.
Jeez I wish folks would do a little research before they make one source blanket statements about any of the cartoon planes we 'fly'.
Heaven forbid that HTC is thinking in terms of all parts of the game, not just Latewar Uber rides.
If nothing else it gives some hope that the early war/scenario use birds might eventually get in to the game so that part of WW2 air combat is more represented.
And I'm betting that there will be folks who actually want the challenge of flying something less then uber and finding out it's strengths as opposed to just upping in the easiest or fastest ride they can find for fear they might lose their 'cyber' lives.
Almost forgot. You 'experts' who believe it's going to be a monster might want to do a bit of research too
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I'm sure HTC will make it a saleable product.
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im sure the P39 will be fun and a worthy plane to add.
also pretty sure its going to be a very hard plane to do well in repeatedly.
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Any plane added to the game is much appreciated by me, regardless of it's performance, affect on the overall war, #'s produced, etc.
The mere fact that this is as close I'll get to flying the real thing, makes each and every plane a real joy to 'fly'.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
All kinds of whining in the arena today. All kinds of Wings Channel 'facts' being spewed about how terrible the 39 was, how little it was used, all it's problems etc.
At times like this its good to point out that the second-highest-scoring allied ace of the war loved the Airacobra, and that he was only beat out by a La-La dweeb :lol
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I think today's discussion about P-39 on ch200 was fun. So many experts throwing around biased opinions, hearsay facts and plain misinformations... :rofl
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:aok
I have to agree. Give it a chance. It will find it's niche in the game. Where are all the guys that said the B25 would become a hanger queen? It's not the most common plane in the game, but it gets some use.
I enjoy the scenarios. The P39 is a great addition for those. We need some more early war birds.
How many late war uber planes are not in the game already? Can't think of many that fit HT's criteria for AH. I would love to see a BearCat or Sea Fury. Ain't gonna happen.
I do think we could use some more GVs. And there are some uber GVs that arn't included.
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The fact that HTC is adding aircraft is a GOOD thing... Just because a person's "pet" aircraft isn't the one added next should not detract from the fact that HTC does indeed respond to the blathering of the masses by adding aircraft/improving the game/fixing bugs. I welcome the addition of the Aircobra, and look forward to flying it. As to historical context, the Soviet pilots who flew it in combat against the luftwaffe loved and respected it... some even LANDED a few kills!
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I was one talking about p39 at chnll 200.
It is good to have a new plane, but i do not understand any hype for p39.
Nice plane, but it will be(if moddeled close to WB one) quite a rare bird aft 1st month online.
P39 will be really good for many scenarios(russian front, early pasific etc). Yak we have ingame now beat it anyway.
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Originally posted by Carwash
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How many late war uber planes are not in the game already?
That saw combat in any number?
The Yak3.
Good but not quite so uber.
not mentioning the IL10 (4 x 23mm YVA's) ground attack
there I mentioned it
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Originally posted by -pjk--
I was one talking about p39 at chnll 200.
It is good to have a new plane, but i do not understand any hype for p39.
Nice plane, but it will be(if moddeled close to WB one) quite a rare bird aft 1st month online.
P39 will be really good for many scenarios(russian front, early pasific etc). Yak we have ingame now beat it anyway.
Kinda like if the Brewster was introduced ehh. :rolleyes:
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Well i think it would be really fun in the Axis vs. Allies arena, o and i got 2 questions about it, before i even think about making an assumption:
1. Does the P-39 turn well?
2.If you turn the P-39, will it go belly up like the 190's tourqe <--spelling
3.I DO know that the P-39 wasnt good at higher alts, did they ever even have a model that was?
4.When do we get it, around what date?
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<---- still waiting for the uber ww1 bi planes.
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I for one am enthusiastic about the addition of a new aircraft. This is not based on how it will perform pound for pound against any given AC already in the inventory, but rather the ability to fly an AC that I probably will never see in real life. Let alone fly it. The P-39 will find it's niche in AH.:aok
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I've been reading all the posts and listning to 200 since the news of the p39 came out.
There's a lot of arguing and haranguing (sp?)
My question is this: Isn't anytime a new plane comes out, no matter what it actualy is, a GOOD thing?
I'm just happy that HTC is still developing thier game and providing us with new toys.
Man Alive! Most of these guys seem like a spoiled kid on Christmas who gets a brand new bike but is pizzerd that its only got 10 gears instead of 15 and throws a hissy fit and tells his giving parents a major guilt trip "if you loved me ..."
get over it and have fun with what we got........
my .02c
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Originally posted by -pjk--
I was one talking about p39 at chnll 200.
It is good to have a new plane, but i do not understand any hype for p39.
Nice plane, but it will be(if moddeled close to WB one) quite a rare bird aft 1st month online.
P39 will be really good for many scenarios(russian front, early pasific etc). Yak we have ingame now beat it anyway.
I've played WB's, and I would say that the difference in the Flight modeling means' that you will have to re-evaluate the P-39 with a clean-slate approach.
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Originally posted by angelsandair
4.When do we get it, around what date?
2 Weeks.
Sorry, could'nt resist.
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Originally posted by Motherland
At times like this its good to point out that the second-highest-scoring allied ace of the war loved the Airacobra, and that he was only beat out by a La-La dweeb :lol
The 2nd , 3rd and 4th aces all flew P39's infact the stats of Gulayev N D (3rd @ 57 kills) are the most impressive when considering kills per sortie and kills per encounter which were twice that of those aces coming 1st & 2nd.
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lol i started the hole thing by saying.
P39 :noid like i have been saying since it was reveled that it was coming out.
:noid :noid
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Freez <3 P39
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Originally posted by angelsandair
Well i think it would be really fun in the Axis vs. Allies arena, o and i got 2 questions about it, before i even think about making an assumption:
1. Does the P-39 turn well?
It should turn pretty well at low alts. The Soviets tended to strip armour and stuff from theirs to save weight, so I suppose it will partly depend on if we get US or Soviet spec aircraft modelled.
2.If you turn the P-39, will it go belly up like the 190's tourqe <--spelling
The P-39 had a reputation for going into nasty spins if pushed hard when the nose ammo ran low, as it moved the C of G backwards.
3.I DO know that the P-39 wasnt good at higher alts, did they ever even have a model that was?
The first prototype of the P-39 was fitted with a turbocharger and had very good altitude performance for its time. Later for various reasons and against the designer's wishes the USAAF ordered the turbo stripped out and lots of armour plate fitted. They wanted a ground attack fighter basically. This screwed the alt performance.
The P-39's replacement was the P-63 Kingcobra. This had a turbocharger and laminar flow wings and good alt performance. It just lacked range, so the USAAF wasn't interested. They were shipped to the Soviets but saw little action before the war ended.
4.When do we get it, around what date?
HTC won't say. If they give a date and then it slips, they get moaned at.
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Originally posted by Greebo
HTC won't say. If they give a date and then it slips, they get moaned at.
Tis' a shame :(
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Originally posted by angelsandair
Well i think it would be really fun in the Axis vs. Allies arena, o and i got 2 questions about it, before i even think about making an assumption:
1. Does the P-39 turn well?
2.If you turn the P-39, will it go belly up like the 190's tourqe <--spelling
3.I DO know that the P-39 wasnt good at higher alts, did they ever even have a model that was?
4.When do we get it, around what date?
1. It should, it has a lower wing loading that the Bf 109F-4.
2. P-39s will have torque to deal with, but to lesser degree than most late-war beasties.
3. The P-39Q will be effective up to 16k, but its best altitude will be between 9k and 10k.
4. Whenever the next update is released.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
3. The P-39Q will be effective up to 16k, but its best altitude will be between 9k and 10k.
My regards,
Widewing
it dose like 390mph i believe at 9K correct?
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Can't wait for the P39Q to arrive.. :D
Guys, go to "http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/main.html"
and check out the P39Q characteristics.
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9GIAP flew the '39 so you can bet it'll become a ride you'll see us in more than a few times:aok
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Originally posted by jedi25
Can't wait for the P39Q to arrive.. :D
Guys, go to "http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/main.html"
and check out the P39Q characteristics.
or click here:
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/main.html
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Im really looking forward to it, it should be a FUN ride, that has some quirks and yet can still be competative in the MA. I voted for the Yak-3 last time, but the P-39 was a close 2nd. The P-39Q should be a decent little fighter, and a nice change of pace.
...im throwing a softball against the wall to get practice with the 37mm M4 :aok
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I flew the JU-88 in a mission tonight. Its not my favorite bomber but it was cool to see all Luftwaffe airplanes together. Just think, a few more Russian, German, and Japanese bombers and we can have totally realistic missions.
I have visions of a skyfull of TU-2s and P-39s descending on the Bish. Now that would be fun. Historically accurate missions are great fun.
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HTC developing more aircraft is always a plus , just think in a few more years how much we could have . < S > to HTC for there work on these planes !:aok
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Any new plane is cool by me and wtg for putting TOD or SOB or what ever it's called to one side for us regualr players to have a new ride.
Wouldn't mind that Italain job that was listed in the vote.
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Originally posted by SD67
9GIAP flew the '39 so you can bet it'll become a ride you'll see us in more than a few times:aok
How ya gonna suicide or game a p39 ?
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:rofl
Just me taking off is suicide. As far as gaming goes, about the gamyest thing I've ever done is use lancs for jabo style work on towns, but that was mostly for laughs and largely fallen to the wayside with the advent of the new town acks.
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Looking back at the home page archive, it was about a month between the "sneak peek" and the release of the B-25. I'm not saying this time will be the same but it gives a rough idea.
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I was thinking around a month also. Maybe sooner though considering there were two versions of the B25 both adding soms "new" things that have not been seen before in aircraft in SH.
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(http://www.ghostinthemachine.net/iceberg2.jpg)
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:aok
I hope it is :D
An influx of new aircraft will breath new life into the game for all of us!
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I can't wait to have a play with 37mm on it.
Especially if it has a slow rate of fire. My main issue with 109K4 and yak9ut is that your more concerned with tapping the trigger. You really have to wait until you have the perfect shot to conserve ammo.
I've flown it in another game and must say its average all round and should do ok here especially with the big gun.
I will be flying it for sure.
Bruv
~S~
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Ok, usually I don't get into "discussions" about a planes worthiness to be in the AHII skies, but I do have to wade into this one.
The reason the Americans and British found the P-39 a dog of a plane, is because of the battle environment they fought in. The Americans and British had to intercept enemy aircraft above the best operating altitude of the P-39. Above 17k it is next to useless, as performance slips into the beyond pathetic range. I have one question to all the nay sayers and "It's going to be a hangar queen." people out there; How many raids have you intercepted above 17K? I can count on one hand (and still have fingers left over) the times I have intercepted a raid over 17k in the last year.
The battle environment we have is more akin to the Russian one. Fights are at low to medium altitude, enemy fields are close. Just read about the Russians use of it. It is not uber fast like the La's, and it turns a little better than a 109-F, so think of it like the Yak-9T(a diamond in the rough that one), but the secondary armament is decent. E retention is good ( a good B&Z'er), and it climbs like a lost angle. (4k per min. from the deck.)
Is it Uber? No, other planes are faster,and others turn tighter.
Does it have a place in the MA? Yes, In the environment we often fight in and a decent stick, this will sing the praises of the "iron dog".
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Originally posted by Bruv119
I can't wait to have a play with 37mm on it.
Especially if it has a slow rate of fire. My main issue with 109K4 and yak9ut is that your more concerned with tapping the trigger. You really have to wait until you have the perfect shot to conserve ammo.
As do I :)
I see the low rate of fire as an advantage. Too bad it also has low muzzle velocity. Nothing like the Yak's doomsday 37mm. The russians made pretty good cannons.
It will do just fine in the arena. Nothing stellar, but not useless either. A fun ride for the dedicated or veteran players I'd say.
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I'll use the P-39 more than the Yak just for the reason of having an updated cockpit. The new cockpit planes look so nice, I can't stand to fly the ones with the old style.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
I flew the JU-88 in a mission tonight. Its not my favorite bomber but it was cool to see all Luftwaffe airplanes together.
if that was the Rook mission against nits last night, that was a great sight - loads of 88s with 109 and 190 escorts. :aok
When I got intel the raid was coming I actually landed my fresh C-hog from 12k over the base and upped a Spit instead for a more historical match :D any of the 88s make it home?
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Originally posted by SD67
9GIAP flew the '39 so you can bet it'll become a ride you'll see us in more than a few times:aok
I won't fly 39, it is too slow. I can't run in it to save my vulch kills.
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Originally posted by Citabria
(http://www.ghostinthemachine.net/iceberg2.jpg)
lol good pic explaining what it takes to put a plane into AH. Lot of behind the scenes work and coordination to get one together.
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Originally posted by RTHolmes
if that was the Rook mission against nits last night, that was a great sight - loads of 88s with 109 and 190 escorts. :aok
When I got intel the raid was coming I actually landed my fresh C-hog from 12k over the base and upped a Spit instead for a more historical match :D any of the 88s make it home?
Yeah some made it home. I landed all 3 bombers, after diverting to another airfield, and that after shooting down a few fighters. The JU-88 doesnt have very good gunnery angles. And the guns are small caliber. Had I been in B-26s or 17s the fighters woulkd have lasted about 1/2 the time they did.
Still...its a nice handling airplane. The 88 is enjoyable to fly, it just isnt enjoyable to defend.
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Originally posted by Citabria
(http://www.ghostinthemachine.net/iceberg2.jpg)
Originally posted by Shuffler
lol good pic explaining what it takes to put a plane into AH. Lot of behind the scenes work and coordination to get one together.
Or is the image possibly an obtuse hint that the P-39 is just the tip of the next AH release iceberg??
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Originally posted by Guppy35
It's amazing, and I know it happens anytime we get a new plane that isn't uber, but don't condemn the 39 before we even get it.
All kinds of whining in the arena today. All kinds of Wings Channel 'facts' being spewed about how terrible the 39 was, how little it was used, all it's problems etc.
Folks complaining about our airplane?
Could be the HO King. FWAP! Take that Mr. LA7 and Niki!!
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I hope it flies like the P40E but with a big ol cannon. Its only 1 less P than the P40 so its gotta be close right?
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Looks like our resident Yak9T aces will have a great time landing kills in the P39.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I hope it flies like the P40E but with a big ol cannon. Its only 1 less P than the P40 so its gotta be close right?
Overall it should be better then the equivelent P-40 across the board. IMO even the D will be a formidable foe (in good hands) at the normal fighting alts here. The D has 2 x .50 and 4 x .30 seperate from the 37mm (or 20mm). Combine that with good low alt performance, good dive and zoom and an excellent sustained turnrater augmented by both good roll rate and the benifit of a "squirrley" FM/COG and its a dangerous plane.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
bla bla bla bla bla
Admit it, you are upset because HT is not introducing another twin engine buff
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Originally posted by dedalos
Admit it, you are upset because HT is not introducing another twin engine buff
Wrong oh wings of wax! It's got an Allison engine in it, and I am quite used to flying around with a single Allison engine running :)
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Originally posted by Fariz
I won't fly 39, it is too slow. I can't run in it to save my vulch kills.
Frank and truethful at least.
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I'm looking forward to the P-39. I can remember building a 1/48 scale monogram model of the plane when I was much younger. As I recall that particular plane never lost a fight until it took several .177 cannon rounds and the wing fell off. Curse my big brother and his friends!!!
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Any new plane is better than no new planes!
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Originally posted by Citabria
(http://www.ghostinthemachine.net/iceberg2.jpg)
I think there may be a message here,:D
And really people, if there is a ride you really wanna see in here, just keep asking and asking and praying and wishing with all your heart, and one day HTC will make your dreams come true, just look how happy the BISH are now that they have their sheep back!:aok
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Originally posted by LYNX
Frank and truethful at least.
Got one. -) Need more.
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Think that HTC will have a 20mm option for the P-39D, if we get it, for the P-400?
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Originally posted by oboe
Think that HTC will have a 20mm option for the P-39D, if we get it, for the P-400?
At least 150 P-39D fighters were delivered from the factory, with the 20mm Hispano installed. These were in addition to the P-400s. Many of the Pacific P-39 aces flew 20mm P-39Ds.
My regards,
Widewing
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my "hanger queen whine" in the p39 thread first page was more like a "2 weeks" reply in a CT thead. a joke ;)
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Originally posted by Widewing
At least 150 P-39D fighters were delivered from the factory, with the 20mm Hispano installed. These were in addition to the P-400s. Many of the Pacific P-39 aces flew 20mm P-39Ds.
My regards,
Widewing
Widewing, would replacing the Olds' 37mm with a 20mm Hispano affect the handling any? I know it would most likely affect the ammo loadouts and rate of fire of the hub gun, though. I'm just wondering if the Hispano will be lighter on the nose...
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Widewing, would replacing the Olds' 37mm with a 20mm Hispano affect the handling any? I know it would most likely affect the ammo loadouts and rate of fire of the hub gun, though. I'm just wondering if the Hispano will be lighter on the nose...
In the P-39, the 37mm gun weighed 238.4 lb, while the 20mm installation weighed 131.2 lb. The 20mm was fed from a 60 round drum, where there were 30 rounds of 37mm. Total weight of the 20mm ammo was around 32 lb. A rough estimate of the 37mm ammo load is 55 lb.
Total weight difference was about 130 lb.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by yanksfan
(http://www.ghostinthemachine.net/iceberg2.jpg)
I think there may be a message here,:D
I think the message would be that we do not know the half of it....................
or in the case of an iceberg............... we only know a sixth of it...........
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Originally posted by Citabria
(http://www.ghostinthemachine.net/iceberg2.jpg)
I think what Festers trying to say is that we are only getting a taste of the P39. Only can see the top, or have only scratched the surface. I bet that the P39 will have more then people expect and HTC will not tell us because it will be a surprise.
Or it could be something else that we dont even know about, maybe their going to add another plane and not tell us or maybe a new map or hell maybe even Combat Tour.
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Originally posted by Carwash
:aok
I have to agree. Give it a chance. It will find it's niche in the game. Where are all the guys that said the B25 would become a hanger queen? It's not the most common plane in the game, but it gets some use.
I enjoy the scenarios. The P39 is a great addition for those. We need some more early war birds.
How many late war uber planes are not in the game already? Can't think of many that fit HT's criteria for AH. I would love to see a BearCat or Sea Fury. Ain't gonna happen.
I do think we could use some more GVs. And there are some uber GVs that arn't included.
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B25c is hanger queen in late war. that was what was said on 200. p39 will be pretty much same, used less and less till minor few useing it.
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The 25C is a hangar queen in Late War, but the later 39 model won't be.
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(http://80thfs.homestead.com/motivator4199058.jpg)
:)
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Originally posted by Treize69
(http://80thfs.homestead.com/motivator4199058.jpg)
:)
That's one of George Welch's P-39D-1s. He shot down a Zero and two Vals in that bird. He did so firing only 16 rounds of 20mm and 78 rounds of .50 cal (didn't fire the .30s at all). Welch got four at Pearl Harbor, 3 in this P-39 and four in his next combat in a P-38G. That's 11 kills in three combats. He shot down 5 more in his next two air engagements. Welch refused to put claims in for single kills (according to squadron mates). Two of his former squadron mates claim that Welch shot down 5 or 6 more than he claimed. In September of 1943, Welch was shipped to Australia with a severe case of Malaria. From there he was sent home. He did bond drives and was assigned as an Army test pilot. After a few months, and with Hap Arnold's blessing, he resigned from the USAAF and went to work at North American Aviation as a Program Test Pilot on the XP-82 Twin Mustang project. He eventually was selected as the Lead Test Pilot for the XP-86 and YF-100 programs. Welch took both supersonic on their maiden test flights, becoming the first man to fly faster than sound in a dive (two weeks before Yeager did so in level flight) and the first to fly faster than sound in level flight in an air breathing aircraft (YF-100). In 1954, he was tragically killed in the break-up of an F-100A during a max performance demonstration flight.
Since the 20mm will be optional in the hanger for the P-39D, I expect it will be used a great deal. Total fire power is very close to the P-38s (including the four .30s). However, the 20mm carried only 60 rounds (drum fed).
My regards,
Widewing
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Funny you mention George. I just watched Tora Tora Tora again today. I must say the coming P-39 is creating a lot of buzz. I had no idea it was that "wished for". I think its going to be a good bird for the game.