Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Rino on January 30, 2008, 12:01:09 AM
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I know it's only been a few years, but could you PLEASE take a strong look
at pilot wounds for mossies and P-38s. It's rediculous how often they get them
especially with no historical weakness in that area.
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Nothing to fix there i believe.
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Originally posted by Oleg
Nothing to fix there i believe.
You don't fly the 38?
It's amazing how often it happens. Considering the armor plate behind, the engines on both sides, the armor glass in front of the face and the 50 cals and 20mm also in front, you'd think there would be some protection.
While I realize I'm a bullet magnet in the 38, it's seems a bit much. Tonight it was a surprise when I didn't get pilot wounded. 3 of my first four flights I was pilot wounded.
Won't stop me from flying my 38G however :)
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Originally posted by Rino
I know it's only been a few years, but could you PLEASE take a strong look
at pilot wounds for mossies and P-38s. It's rediculous how often they get them
especially with no historical weakness in that area.
Don't worry, our SAPP representative is working his magic and lobbying to get this done, although it has taken a little while...
:noid :noid
donkey
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Considering the armor plate behind
Most planes have it.
Originally posted by Guppy35
the engines on both sides
Protects you from very limited angles.
Originally posted by Guppy35
the armor glass in front of the face
Most planes have it as well.
Originally posted by Guppy35
and the 50 cals and 20mm also in front, you'd think there would be some protection.
Nothing in comparision with front engine.
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
Don't worry, our SAPP representative is working his magic and lobbying to get this done, although it has taken a little while...
:noid :noid
donkey
As soon as I can develop that photo of what looks like HiTech trying to pick up a ewe with a pick-up full of Finnish midgets, we'll start our lobbying.
ack-ack
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To me it seems that pilot wounds happen in strings....
For a short period of time, I'll get pilot wounded, maybe 4-5 times...
Then a long dry spell...
Then it happens again....
ODD!!!
The same thing happens with one shot ack kills at about 3k...
Happens for awhile, then stops...
I've heard the same from others, and it doesn't seem to matter
what kind of plane they or I am flying...
Like some kind of unknown statistical probability....
Irritating some times, because of the in game situation...
I just fly on, until it stops...
Then we have the auto ack, that is aimed by devine intervention...
But that is a whole nother topic...
TH
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Same problem with guns going out on all planes! used to never lose a gun nowdays i lose one every time i get hit no matter where the round hits me!
last night i was in a 38 and got a hit in the wing and a gun went out ,HELLO, NOSE GUN!
Also on the 38, I would think that you would lose guns before you would get a pilot wound from the front, yet that does not seem to happen,
sure wish they would fix this, I am a big fan of the 38's and would love to fly it more than I do now but i get killed enough without the pilot wound problem!
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
As soon as I can develop that photo of what looks like HiTech trying to pick up a ewe with a pick-up full of Finnish midgets, we'll start our lobbying.
ack-ack
Aww, so that is what's going on.
donkey
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In agreement with Oleg.
There's not as much in front of and behind the pilot in a 38 to absorb the punishment of incoming rounds as is present in many other aircraft. Plus, you may just be running into a lot of guys that tend to aim at the cockpit. I'm slightly ashamed to say that I try to aim there whenever possible.
As for Mossie's, again, not as much in front of the pilot a single engine ride has, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a good portion of that aircraft's fuselage made of wood? Doesn't seem to me that there's as much stopping power there even with a long fuselage behind the pilot. Just guessing.
Hack9
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Yeah, aiming for the cockpit..good idea:rolleyes: Have you taken a
good look at ANY of the single engine type's windscreen? There isn't anything in front of them either...why do they not suffer the same
percentage of pilot wounds?
Both the mosquito and 38 have large numbers of guns and ammo in
the nose, even discounting any armored glass <38G anyone>. I'd like
to challenge anyone to find documentation saying that these aircraft
were vulnerable to headon attacks.
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Originally posted by Hack9
In agreement with Oleg.
There's not as much in front of and behind the pilot in a 38 to absorb the punishment of incoming rounds as is present in many other aircraft. Plus, you may just be running into a lot of guys that tend to aim at the cockpit. I'm slightly ashamed to say that I try to aim there whenever possible.
As for Mossie's, again, not as much in front of the pilot a single engine ride has, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a good portion of that aircraft's fuselage made of wood? Doesn't seem to me that there's as much stopping power there even with a long fuselage behind the pilot. Just guessing.
Hack9
Why would you be ashamed to shoot at the cockpit? And while there isn't an engine in front of the pilot, there sure is a hell of a lot of other "stuff" that would certainly deflect/"disarm"(for a lack of a better word) a bullet if not completely stop it, and that's before you get to any of the armor/steel plates.
donkey
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
Why would you be ashamed to shoot at the cockpit?
donkey
Basically, he's saying he HO's.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Hack9
As for Mossie's, again, not as much in front of the pilot a single engine ride has, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't a good portion of that aircraft's fuselage made of wood? Doesn't seem to me that there's as much stopping power there even with a long fuselage behind the pilot. Just guessing.
Hack9
That wood had more stopping power than the thin aluminium skin on other aircraft. Still, it has essentially no stopping power. But the fact that you even though that was relevant is perhaps telling. The seat armor for the pilot (poor navigator) looks to me to be more extensive than many single engined fighters.
The Mossie, like the P-38, had an armor plate between the guns and ammo and the control panel. It also had a bulletproof windscreen. The armor on the two aircraft is very similar.
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One does not need to HO to shoot the cockpit. A good canopy shot in the scissors will do it nicely.
I've been looking at giving the '38 a bit more time though, since I do like the 110. However in the 110 a single engine usually only gets you to the scene of the crash a little later than you would in a single and I believe the '38 has a much greater survivability rate in this situation. After flying in the relatively vulnerable 110 the extra protection in the '38 would be a welcome addition.
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Also, my issue is not with heavy macineguns or cannons causing pilot wounds, it is how often I get them from rifle caliber machineguns on things like Bf110s, Ju88s and tanks.
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It's always possible for someone to get a lucky shot through the non armoured part of the canopy with a rifle calibre MG. In fact when I'm flying the HurriI it's the shot I try for most as it's usually the only way I'll get a quick kill.
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Originally posted by SD67
It's always possible for someone to get a lucky shot through the non armoured part of the canopy with a rifle calibre MG. In fact when I'm flying the HurriI it's the shot I try for most as it's usually the only way I'll get a quick kill.
Possible, yes, but that is no different than shooting a Spitfire pilot. But that is not what happens in AH. The P-38 and Mossie (and, I'd guess the Bf110) all get wounds from the rifle caliber guns just as easily as from .50s or 20mm rounds.
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Originally posted by Oleg
Most planes have it.
Protects you from very limited angles.
Most planes have it as well.
Nothing in comparision with front engine.
So you are suggesting the 38s should have a higher incident of pilot wounds?
Flying Spit VIIIs or 51Bs I've never had the same percentage of pilot wounds as I do in the 38. Since the cockpit isn't any larger then the other two, how do you account for that?
More then just those guns and ammo in front of the pilot too.
Seems like the armor set up in the 38 wasn't too bad.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/38Armor.jpg)
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Dan, you should no by now that noone wants to see your "evidence", jeez. Just start making stuff up like everyone else does. :rolleyes:
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I cant recall the last time I got a pilot wound without a corresponding hole in the glass (I'm sure it happens). All in all I'd say the mossie gets fewer pilot wounds then the A-20 does (dont fly the 38 enough to comment). From my perspective most pilot wounds dont come from true HO's but come from some type of a front quarter shot you cant avoid or a "golden BB" type snapshot.
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Mine seem to come from defensive guns on aircraft or vehicles I attack.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Basically, he's saying he HO's.
ack-ack
Ahhhhhh.
donkey
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Seems like the armor set up in the 38 wasn't too bad.
Definately worse than a plane with a few thousand pounds of engine block in front, and a whole length of fuselage behind it, wouldn't you say?
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Yeah, aiming for the cockpit..good idea Have you taken a
good look at ANY of the single engine type's windscreen? There isn't anything in front of them either...why do they not suffer the same
percentage of pilot wounds?
So, what's the percentage of pilot wounds in twin engined planes?
Have you tested?
Empirically, I "feel" as if the Ki-84 has a lot of pilot wounds. But then again, some days, I don't have any. Since I don't have anything solid to go on to argue that there's something wrong with pilot wounds on the Ki-84, I tend to keep my mouth shut.
You know, perhaps you noticing more pilot wounds in those planes, is actually a testament to your flying skills. Maybe you survived a lot longer than other pilots would have, and since that'd mean you've been hit with a lot of bullets that would have blown other planes up, the chances of being hurt go up a lot higher than those who just plain ol' die in the air.
Or, maybe you squirm around a lot more than other people in those planes, and you expose a substantial part of the upper canopy as the enemy behind you shoots at you, thus, noticing more pilot wounds than others. I know I certainly do get a lot of pilot wounds when I twisty-turny my Ki-84.
...
So in the end game, how would you know how much of your percentage of pilot wounds are due to a faulty game, rather than from your own actions?
Any proof?
Testings?
Solid evidence?
You know what.. everytime I up some of my favorite planes, like the Ki-84 or the 109, I always get my oil can blown out, engine busted, radiator punctured, vstabs shot off on a regular basis. I could argue that there's something wrong with these planes in that every hit from the enemy causes these failures to happen - like, 90% of the time.
But then again, I am reminded the fact that I am a mediocre, sucky, average pilot who gets owned in all sorts of circumstances. Maybe the reason those things are constantly being damaged, is because I'm consistently being shot at.
I'd suspect a larger human factor is involved in all this, then you'd like to think so.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Definately worse than a plane with a few thousand pounds of engine block in front, and a whole length of fuselage behind it, wouldn't you say?
Actually no I wouldn't :)
I'd say that the cannons and 50s plus the armor plate in front would certainly be some protection.
Based on the logic of the engine being protection then I'd say that the 38 would get less pilot wounds as there are one on each side of the pilot, plus the thickest part of the wing is there that he is sitting between.
Think of a 51 for example. The pilot is sitting on the wing not between it. The fuselage is hollow outside of a fuel tank behind him. Kinda doubt that's going to stop a shot. His armor plate behind is similar to the 38, and he's got nothing on either side.
A deflection shot or front quarter shot should wound a single engine fighter pilot just as often and a passing shot along the fuselage should wound them more as there would be nothing in the way except thin fuselage wall. A passing shot on a 38 would have to go through the engine booms and potentially the engines, down the length of the wing and fuel tanks and through the cockpit pod wall. Just a bit more don't ya think? :)
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Actually no I wouldn't
I'd say that the cannons and 50s plus the armor plate in front would certainly be some protection.
Based on the logic of the engine being protection then I'd say that the 38 would get less pilot wounds as there are one on each side of the pilot, plus the thickest part of the wing is there that he is sitting between.
Think of a 51 for example. The pilot is sitting on the wing not between it. The fuselage is hollow outside of a fuel tank behind him. Kinda doubt that's going to stop a shot. His armor plate behind is similar to the 38, and he's got nothing on either side.
A deflection shot or front quarter shot should wound a single engine fighter pilot just as often and a passing shot along the fuselage should wound them more as there would be nothing in the way except thin fuselage wall. A passing shot on a 38 would have to go through the engine booms and potentially the engines, down the length of the wing and fuel tanks and through the cockpit pod wall. Just a bit more don't ya think?
I'd say the above borders on "wishful thinking", Gupps.
Five barrels of guns ain't exactly a P&W radial, or comparable to any chunk of metal engine block for that matter.. and if I linger on the same logic, a vstab/hstab and rudder/elevator, would by itself provide something akin of a double stoppage... and every additional nooks and crannys that comes in between from that point to the rear plate armour of a single engined fighter.
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Why would you be ashamed to shoot at the cockpit?
Only slightly ashamed. I was being facetious. :)
That wood had more stopping power than the thin aluminium skin on other aircraft. Still, it has essentially no stopping power.
Thank you for the correction, though I used the wrong words when I wrote 'stopping power'. I was trying to speak to the ability (or lack of ability) of the fuselage structure (and its contents) to slow down and/or redirect bullets rather than actually stop them. Apparently, I'm mistaken to believe there is any such ability regardless of skin material used.
Basically, he's saying he HO's.
Not sure why the "H" word had to come up. Lots of better ways to get a cockpit shot that don't bite back. :)
If there's a flaw in the game that puts these aircraft at a non-historical disadvantage in regard to receiving pilot wounds vs real life counterparts then document it.
"In God we trust. All others, bring data."
Hack9
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Originally posted by Murdr
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/armor.jpg)
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/armor2.jpg)
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/images/38guns.jpg)
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I'd say the above borders on "wishful thinking", Gupps.
Five barrels of guns ain't exactly a P&W radial, or comparable to any chunk of metal engine block for that matter.. and if I linger on the same logic, a vstab/hstab and rudder/elevator, would by itself provide something akin of a double stoppage... and every additional nooks and crannys that comes in between from that point to the rear plate armour of a single engined fighter.
Could be wishful thinking, but do you believe a 38 in AH should be more likely to get a pilot wound then a 51? I realize I do goofy things with my 38G but my experience with the Spit is nowhere near the number of pilot wounds or in the 51B.
Last night I had em on 3 of my first 4 flights. Even for me that's a lot :)
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Your reasonning is flawed :
You noticed a lot of pilot wound perhaps not because the 38 pil of it and the like are more prone to wound but because the others facing similar occurrence are already dead.
Think of it.
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Originally posted by straffo:
Your reasonning is flawed :
You noticed a lot of pilot wound perhaps not because the 38 pil of it and the like are more prone to wound but because the others facing similar occurrence are already dead.
Think of it.
NOW THAT IS A WHOLE NEW ANGLE!:aok
Ive never had a PW in a 38 from a 20mm or above. Been killed yeah, but never wounded (As it should be). A 0.5 on some occasions does PW, but no where near as often as a .303. Thats what surprises me!
fear the .303
:p :aok :p :aok :p
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this is the sole reason i dont fly the B38 and the mossie, instant pilot wound each time i fly it.
Originally posted by Karnak
Possible, yes, but that is no different than shooting a Spitfire pilot. But that is not what happens in AH. The P-38 and Mossie (and, I'd guess the Bf110) all get wounds from the rifle caliber guns just as easily as from .50s or 20mm rounds.
262 is the same.
i hate going for lancs with a 262 because i often get intant pilot wound... dam 303s
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Originally posted by Hazard69
Ive never had a PW in a 38 from a 20mm or above. Been killed yeah, but never wounded (As it should be). A 0.5 on some occasions does PW, but no where near as often as a .303. Thats what surprises me!
How often you had PWs from 30-37mm? :huh
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Ummm....first line of my post answers your query...never!:confused:
Have once had a PW as result of a burst from a 110. Took off one of my tails and gave me a PW. Does that count?? :lol :lol :lol
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Huh, didnt notice word "above" :)
I just dont understand why ppl surprised with more wounds from MGs (or you was kidding?)