Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on January 30, 2008, 02:13:19 PM
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There are essentially no fighters left to add to AH that will compete with the top fighters already in AH. The best bets are thing like the G.55, Yak-3, P-39 (coming), J2M3 and maybe Ki-44. P-61 and Me410 would see use as ground attack. But none of these will threaten to unseat the P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, La-7 or N1K2. Nor would I expect them to unseat secondaries like the Bf109K-4, Typhoon, Spitfire Mk VIII and so on.
What does this mean? It means that you should stop objecting when so-called "Hangar Queens" are added as nothing is left that can't be defined as such by somebody.
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I agree. At this point any new plane is good. However...the past 2 have been allied so it would be nice if the next was axis. :)
*cough* J2M3
*cough* Me410
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Trying to figure out who has more birds, the IJN or the IJA? I'd like to
see a Judy or a Dinah..even a Betty.
I do think mid-war Axis could use a few more..but anything we get is
gravy.:)
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Agreed... Just because a "pet" aircraft isn't in the planeset, many will whine that this or that should be added... and any addition other than their favorite, obscure, little produced/used airplane will be a "hanger queen" My favorite are the guys that clamor for the Brewster Buffalo or other 1920's designed open cockpit aircraft thet were obsolete in 1939.
I welcome the addition of any and all aircraft that saw combat in WW2! Kudos to HTC on the upcoming introduction of the 39Q!
Let's all start screaming for armed GeeBees, or Staggerwings...
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Originally posted by MajIssue
Let's all start screaming for armed GeeBees, or Staggerwings...
I-16s, Gladiators, I-153s and CR.42s?
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Originally posted by Rino
Trying to figure out who has more birds, the IJN or the IJA? I'd like to
see a Judy or a Dinah..even a Betty.
I do think mid-war Axis could use a few more..but anything we get is
gravy.:)
Agreed. An Oscar would be a nice addition.
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Originally posted by Rino
Trying to figure out who has more birds, the IJN or the IJA? I'd like to
see a Judy or a Dinah..even a Betty.
I do think mid-war Axis could use a few more..but anything we get is
gravy.:)
I'd also like to see a few more early and mid-war Soviet planes.
ack-ack
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Where's Arlo to list off the Spanish Civil War planeset :)
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Originally posted by Karnak
I-16s, Gladiators, I-153s and CR.42s?
Hey... I WANT the I-16... so here we go with my little I-16 spiel again...
I've been begging for this thing forever.
The Polikarpov I-16 was produced in both high and low wing monoplane versions, both with and without enclosed cockpits, and in both single and two set trainer versions. Quite the versitile airframe.
(http://www.commemorativeairforce.org/gallery/acgallery/fullsize/I-16_fs.jpg)
General characteristics
• Crew: one pilot
• Length: 6.13 m (20.1 ft)
• Wingspan: 9.00 m (29.5 ft)
• Height: 2.25 m (7.38 ft)
• Wing area: 14.54 m² (156.5 ft²)
• Empty weight: 1,383 kg (3,049 lb)
• Loaded weight: 1,882 kg (4,149 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 2,050 kg (4,520 lb)
• Powerplant: 1× Shvetsov M-63 air-cooled radial engine, 670 kW (900 hp) driving a two-blade propeller
Performance
• Maximum speed: 460 km/h (290 mph)
• Range: 440 km (275 mi)
• Service ceiling: 9,700 m (31,800 ft)
• Rate of climb: 14.7 m/s (2,900 ft/min)
• Wing loading: 129 kg/m² (26 lb/ft²)
• Power/mass: 0.36 kW/kg (0.22 hp/lb)
Armament
• 4× fixed forward-firing 7.62 mm (.30 cal) ShKAS machine guns, a total of 3,100 rounds of ammunition.
• 6× RS-82 rockets or up to 100 kg (220 lb) of bombs
Built from 1933 through 1941 with over half still in service in 1943 the Polikarpov IL-16 was a historically significant aircraft. I was the worlds first monoplane fighter, the first with retractable landing gear, and the first with a closed cockpit (some versions). It was built in many varients over it's lifespan but the type 24 was the most used varient in WWII. The type 28 replaces two of the 7.62 mm ShKAS with to 20mm ShVAK cannons.
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Originally posted by Karnak
There are essentially no fighters left to add to AH that will compete with the top fighters already in AH. The best bets are thing like the G.55, Yak-3, P-39 (coming), J2M3 and maybe Ki-44. P-61 and Me410 would see use as ground attack. But none of these will threaten to unseat the P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, La-7 or N1K2. Nor would I expect them to unseat secondaries like the Bf109K-4, Typhoon, Spitfire Mk VIII and so on.
What does this mean? It means that you should stop objecting when so-called "Hangar Queens" are added as nothing is left that can't be defined as such by somebody.
Not to mention that someone called the B25 with over 6,000 kills a hangar queen. The 190-d9 has about 13,000 kills. Given that one is a bomber and the other a picking machine, the B25 is hardly a hangar queen :rofl
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I'd also like to see a few more early and mid-war Soviet planes.
ack-ack
Pe-2 and the Tu-2
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Originally posted by dedalos
Not to mention that someone called the B25 with over 6,000 kills a hangar queen. The 190-d9 has about 13,000 kills. Given that one is a bomber and the other a picking machine, the B25 is hardly a hangar queen :rofl
Now that's just downright sad! The A20G is about the same. Both with almost 5K more kills then the 38G.
Leave my hanger queen alone! :)
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Polikarpov I-16 blah blah blah...
Not to mention about 7,000 of them were built prior to 1943. Even if you want to say it was outclassed by the start of Barbarossa, it was still numerically very important for another 2 years after that.
Its fun as all heck in IL-2, nasty little furballer.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Now that's just downright sad! The A20G is about the same. Both with almost 5K more kills then the 38G.
Leave my hanger queen alone! :)
No no no, it is not the plane remember? It is the pilot :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by dedalos
No no no, it is not the plane remember? It is the pilot :rofl :rofl :rofl
Are you suggesting that if I could shoot better, the 38G would have more kills?!? How dare you impune the character of the P38G based on my lousy piloting skills!:furious
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Originally posted by Treize69
Not to mention about 7,000 of them were built prior to 1943. Even if you want to say it was outclassed by the start of Barbarossa, it was still numerically very important for another 2 years after that.
Its fun as all heck in IL-2, nasty little furballer.
IIRC it was far more than that... something closer to 16,000 making it something like #2 on the WWII production list. Someone will correct me I'm sure but there were a lot of them built.
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Even better, I went with the first production # I ran across that didn't sound rediculously inflated. I'm sure it was the highest produced Russian fighter, but I'm not sure where it stands on the overall list.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
(http://www.commemorativeairforce.org/gallery/acgallery/fullsize/I-16_fs.jpg)
• Maximum speed: 460 km/h (290 mph)
At least it would be able to run down a Hurricane. :rofl
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Hey... I WANT the I-16... so here we go with my little I-16 spiel again...
I've advocated the I-16-24 quite a few times too. Would be a fun little fighter.
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But wait Karnak, what about that 4 engined Arado varient? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Squire
But wait Karnak, what about that 4 engined Arado varient? :rolleyes:
Perk plane = Hangar Queen. :p
(I know you are joking)
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Bring on all these Beautiful birds!! ....I cant wait to fly 'em!!
Mig-3 ...Ki-44 ....Pe2 ....Do17.... ...thats my wish list
Helm ...out
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I wonder, if they add enough planes' to the set, if we will see a revision of the perk system? Maybe some of those uber late war rides (P-51D, LA-7, FW-190D-9,etc.) will now come with a perk cost? Might change the usage rates' of the so-called "hangar queens".
Put it this way...There's a lot of people that like to fly the F4u's...But the funny thing is, the best of the lot, the F4U-4, isn't flown much at all...because of that little perk cost. Makes' you wonder, doesn't it...?
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There are no "hanger queens"....just a lack of seasoned pilots. Every plane in the game is formidable in decent hands.
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Originally posted by Karnak
There are essentially no fighters left to add to AH that will compete with the top fighters already in AH. The best bets are thing like the G.55, Yak-3, P-39 (coming), J2M3 and maybe Ki-44. P-61 and Me410 would see use as ground attack. But none of these will threaten to unseat the P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, La-7 or N1K2. Nor would I expect them to unseat secondaries like the Bf109K-4, Typhoon, Spitfire Mk VIII and so on.
What does this mean? It means that you should stop objecting when so-called "Hangar Queens" are added as nothing is left that can't be defined as such by somebody.
actually, i'll probably di...i mean fly the 39 a bit when she first comes to the arenas....but there is one other thing that CAN be added to help unseat the so-called "uber fighters" EDUCATION.
the noobs(myself included)need to LEARN how to fight in different planes...the HO-tards, need to learn to maneuver for position in a fight. same for the ace pilots. the alt monkeys.....they need to learn to come down to a reasonable alt, and then learn the above.
i've sen a lot of the better sticks in the arenas use so-called "old crates" and completely rula the fight full of newer hot rods.....
seems that if we all learn to fly our "crates" to their strengths then they'll be up to the task of reaonably competing with the hot rods.....
to those of you old far.....eeerrr......veteran sticks........offer to teach when yas can......i've been seeing that a lot lately BTW.
for everyone............FRIGGIN FORGET ABOUT YOUR DAMMD SCORE!!!!!!
it doesn't mean anything!!! the fun is in the fight.....win OR lose........if you're a noob or hotard.....imagine if you're in a crate, and spend 5 minutes in a low down n dirty slow stalling almost falling out of the sky buzzin, shakin tree trimin fight......and you manage to shoot down your opponent who's in a better ride......i'd be willing to bet your pulse is goin as fast as you usually run when ya miss the ho.....even if ya lose the fight.....
that's just my long-winded opinion..........:noid
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Originally posted by CAP1
actually, i'll probably di...i mean fly the 39 a bit when she first comes to the arenas....but there is one other thing that CAN be added to help unseat the so-called "uber fighters" EDUCATION.
the noobs(myself included)need to LEARN how to fight in different planes...the HO-tards, need to learn to maneuver for position in a fight. same for the ace pilots. the alt monkeys.....they need to learn to come down to a reasonable alt, and then learn the above.
Isn't that what the Training Arena's for :huh
Funny thing is, whenever I go in there it's usually the experianced pilots that don't fly spits/la's/p51's... seeing that they have something to learn looking for a specific thing to learn...
Take a few weeks ago for example, I go in looking for someone that could teach me a bit better E conservation in the P40 (thanks Ghost) and here's a little furball of p38J's goin on using manuvers I didn't think possible of a p38 (even though I've flown it for the past couple months in the DA...) still not satisfied with their achievements...
Either that or people on their 2 week trial that don't know how to take off...
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I think the planeset needs to be filled. I don't want to see any more American planes added for awhile. Vote or NO vote.
German bombers, Japanese and Soviet planes.
Maybe a token French plane and possibly just 1 more italian plane fighter or bomber.
German transport ju52.
Bruv
~S~
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Not to hijack the thread, Trigger, but I just clicked on your "best thread" link at the bottom of your sig, and that is absolutely, without a doubt, the funniest thread I've ever seen. Again, sry for offtopic. Continue.
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I have a thread in the wish list for some Italian birds, G.50 CR.42 MC.200
I also think the I-16 and I-153 are good rides as well, in IL2 thay are hard to bring down cause they are made of wood and can really take a pounding. :aok
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Hate to say it again, but I will anyway!!!
A26 A26 A26
It definately wouldn't be a hangar queen.
Rather, I'll bet it would create quite a few!!!
I'm an A20 driver, with a bucket load of perks,
and NOTHING to spend them on!!!
All of them collected the hardway too!!!
A26 would be a genuine LW aircraft, that has
the same general mission profile as A20... But
with a decent chance of survival in the LW arena...
Right now, I fly A20 against heavily defended LW targets,
in a prewar design... Seven out of ten times
I get chewed to pieces... No way to escape
the LW hotrod fighters....
When uber fighters kill me, it means nothing...
Just another tubby prewar bomber goes plunk, Right???
But when I blast thru the cap and nail my target, (my primary objective),
and then smoke someones LW uber ride after the pullout. (greenstamps)
I actually accomplished something... No end of satisfaction for me!!!!
OK, There is always someone, who says,
"fly a fighter, you won't die as often".....
While that is probably true, that would make me
just another characterless 200talkin fighterjerk...
Turnin little circles, and having NO effect on the battle...
Have plenty of those in game already...
Give us the A26!!!
What are ya afraid of???
A plane that would actually have an effect on gameplay???
OK, LOL, fire away guys!!!!
I'm used to being flakbait!!!
TH
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There is no such thing as a hanger queen.
If your sufficiently inspired, (heps to be sneaky) you can go out and get kills in the D3a1 Val.
So why wouldn't we want EACH AND EVERY SINGLE BLOODY PLANE we can get? More planes = diversity, choice, options.
How does having a plane in the set that you don't fly hurt ANYONE?
Simple answer, it doesn't.
At worst all you can say is it takes dev time away from a plane you'd rather have. However, in this case, the people have spoken. HTC is modeling planes that were voted on. P39 was second only to the B25h. And the b25h is certainly no hanger queen. Nor is it the end to all tank fights that some thought it would be.
What it is however is one FUN plane to fly. And for that exact same reason I can't wait to get my hands on the p39.
My only question was, what was next? Anyone remember
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Me410 and G55 were next.
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On the first round of voting, the Brewster got 5% of the votes. It should definately be the next plane. ;)
Final voting results (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202838).
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Well dang, I guess it's A26 and Yak3 next..
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Put it this way...There's a lot of people that like to fly the F4u's...But the funny thing is, the best of the lot, the F4U-4, isn't flown much at all...because of that little perk cost. Makes' you wonder, doesn't it...?
I think it's not so much the price because the F4U-4 really dosn't cost much. I think it's more due to the fact that so many people in here can't shoot worth a damn and NEED the CANNONS of the C to help compensate for their poor aim, get a lucky ping or two and take the NME plane down...
I see many more C's up than I do the 4 even though the 4 is a monster and the only perk plane I'll generally pay for. Only complaint I have about the 4 is it eats gas. :)
And now on topic, any new plane is great.. I can't wait to try the Q I love the 9T and even if the 37mm in the Q is slower firing I figure it will just take more patience and good aim :)
I fly the hanger queens a bunch and the nice thing is that I am hardly ever affected by ENY limitations while everyone else is screaming like hell on country or 200 lol :D
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My obsolete antiquated favorite:
Swordfish
Bring the Swordfish to AH2!
I'll fly it. I'll die just like I do when I make a torpedo run in a JU88, but I'll fly it.
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He 111.:aok
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A-26 is a perk plane. Perk planes = hangar queens.
My whole arguement is that adding hangar queens is fine and dandy. Bring 'em on.
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I dont know how much of an improvement the A-26 will be over the A-20 with regard to gameplay. Biggest real difference will be the increased maximim speed you can carry but I'd assume that overall handling might suffer a bit combared to the A-20. From what I've read the wing strengthening didnt result in even a 10% increase in max dive speed so I'm not sure just how much better the A-26 will be "in game".
Personally I'd like to see the major russian variations of the A-20 instead. The russians flew more A-20's then anyone else and used them extensively in a variety of roles. Many were converted back to the 4x20mm loadout and the naval patrol version had the bombay converted to another fuel tank and was fitted for 2 torpedeos.
As much as I'd love to see the A-26 I think either a fighter like the G.55/Yak-3 or another attack bird like the 410 would make more sense (along of course with the "reworked" A-20).
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Originally posted by Karnak
A-26 is a perk plane. Perk planes = hangar queens.
My whole arguement is that adding hangar queens is fine and dandy. Bring 'em on.
I dont think the A-26 would really be a perk plane, it only did 355 and its 6000 lb loadout isnt anymore then a B-25. No question the 14 x .50's is a load but more then the 110s mix of 20mm/30mm?
It wouldnt unbalance game play any more then a mossie or B-25 does IMO. Assuming better structural strength in exchange for lesser handling the A-26 wouldnt really outshine the A-20 in an air to air by a huge margin.
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Originally posted by JScore
Not to hijack the thread, Trigger, but I just clicked on your "best thread" link at the bottom of your sig, and that is absolutely, without a doubt, the funniest thread I've ever seen. Again, sry for offtopic. Continue.
"You have much to learn, Grasshopper..."
The balloon thread was cute, and pretty funny at times (favorite was the bish horde ENY crack). But you have not explored the lore of AH until you've checked out these gems:
The Commander Akria Thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52499) What really makes this hilarious is that the thread starter and mony others posting were actually some of the All-Time Best AH pilots wearing shades. You won't see a better spoof of squeaker culture!
Operation Meatpuppet (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138115) First proposed by now-HTC employee Waffle, a team of brilliantly wicked AH'ers descended on the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals message boards with one purpose: TROLL! They went way over the legal limit on gullible fish, with such treasures as the "My fish is stupid. I put it on the floor and it couldn't even find its way back to the bowl," and the gutbusting and infamous "deer in the garage" ploy.
The (unfortunately gutted) Waffle vs JB88 thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148576) This would contend for the best, but unfortunately an awful lot of the links have died. Having seen it in its original glory, with photoshopped gems and clever jokes, it's almost painful to try and read it now -- but if you haven't seen it, there are some really good laughs in there.
I remember a few other good ones (couldn't find the one about the guy who put a pancake up for sale on Ebay -- and got takers), but this will give you a flavor. Don't set your sights too low: some of the most diabolically clever people I've met hang around here, and if you watch you'll see outrageously funny stuff!
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humble,
Pyro has listed it as a future perk plane and said as much to me in conversation.
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Originally posted by Hazzer
He 111.:aok
What he said!
OR
Newer model of the STUKA! Heck, even perk it if it gets the 37mm's.
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Originally posted by Flayed1
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I see many more C's up than I do the 4 even though the 4 is a monster and the only perk plane I'll generally pay for. Only complaint I have about the 4 is it eats gas. :) ...
Exactly. By the time you are competent enough in a Corsair to do reasonably well in the F4U-4 in arena play, you're generally good enough that the -1A's pretty decent performance compared to the -4 and it's much greater flexibility as a result of greater range makes it a better overall "deal", generally.
And if you care about building perks, it's much better to gain perks in.
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Originally posted by Karnak
humble,
Pyro has listed it as a future perk plane and said as much to me in conversation.
I'd love to have it either way, and obviously Pyro can do what he wants:D .
Looking at it objectively I simply dont see how you'd arrive at a logical decision to "perk it" when you have so many other "uber" non perk rides. Now as the planeset continues to grow then maybe an overall reworking of the perk values would bring some sense to it. But to have a P-51D, La-7, Ta-152, 109K-4 (chosen since they all sit at the top of their respective "foodchains") non perked and the A-26 perked is a bit ludicrous IMO. While the A-26 will be fairly formidable for those who take the time to learn it (Just like the mossie, 110, A-20) it'll still be just another target in the scheme of things.
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How many uber, perk bombers do we have? Yeah, exactly. It isn't a perk fighter and comparing it to fighter performance will have it coming up short.
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What food chain does the 152 sit atop of?
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Originally posted by moot
What food chain does the 152 sit atop of?
A couple of them.
1) modeling issues.
2) Why the heck was this added to the game? :p
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LOL
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Originally posted by moot
What food chain does the 152 sit atop of?
Technically it sits on top of the 190 "foodchain". Post wasnt ment to say that the 152 should be perked...anymore then the D pony or La-7.
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Originally posted by Karnak
How many uber, perk bombers do we have? Yeah, exactly. It isn't a perk fighter and comparing it to fighter performance will have it coming up short.
I'm not comparing it to fighters per se. It's got the same bomb load as a B-25 or B-26, no cannons like the B-25 or mossie or 110 so it cant deack/snipe GV's. It wasn't "rare" and it certainly won't unbalance gameplay. I've got thousands of useless perks from flying the A-20 so I dont care either way. I'm just curious what the rationel is to have so many other planes that impact the game more "unperked" and perk the A-26.
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It'll deack very well.. 8 nose guns in the 25H are pretty much as good as a pair of cannons. Nevermind with 6 more.
And soft GVs would be toast in a very short time span :D That includes Ostie turrets. In fact, I think it'll be pretty useful to make long precise shots against soft targets, given the number volume of fire on 50cal trajectories.
It might even be better than the Il2.
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Originally posted by humble
I dont think the A-26 would really be a perk plane, it only did 355 and its 6000 lb loadout isnt anymore then a B-25. No question the 14 x .50's is a load but more then the 110s mix of 20mm/30mm?
It wouldnt unbalance game play any more then a mossie or B-25 does IMO. Assuming better structural strength in exchange for lesser handling the A-26 wouldnt really outshine the A-20 in an air to air by a huge margin.
The A-26 would be a formidable raid bomber. Thats it. I wouldnt even mind if it was lightly perked. If it is modeled to drop 12 500lb bombs thru a bombsight, at that speed, it would probably become the most favored bomber in the game. With 3 drones thats 6,000 more Lbs worth of bombs then the B-26/Marauder. Then, of course, add the rocket loadout......
It would be a great raider no doubt. But sticking around and mixing it up with fighters? I dont think so. It would be murder on CVs however. I'd love to see this bomber introduced.
I guess the "rational" would be its 18,000 lbs of bombs, with drones, would impact the game heavily. And its speed would almost garuntee it makes it to target.
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The A-26 in Air Warrior was often seen mixing it up with fighters. Even though it wasn't nessesarily competetive, it was close enough to be a tough target to bring down and it was fun to fly it in that manner, espeically if the top gun was manned.
Considering the ord load, the gun package and it's general handling charachteristics I could see it being perked.
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I don't think it will be an expensive perk, but rather the bargain perk bomber, much like the Sherman VC is for tanks and the F4U-1C/Spitfire Mk XIV are for aircraft.
And don't compare it to the Mosquito VI or Bf110, for all their clunkiness, they are still fighters.
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VVS "not so" hanger queens
Fighter Yak3
Attack IL-10
Bomber TU2
Prolific yet to be modelled VVS air craft
Attack (Heavy dive bomber) Pe 2
VVS hanger queens we should have.
U-2 for every Vehicle hanger. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by trigger2
Isn't that what the Training Arena's for :huh
Funny thing is, whenever I go in there it's usually the experianced pilots that don't fly spits/la's/p51's... seeing that they have something to learn looking for a specific thing to learn...
Take a few weeks ago for example, I go in looking for someone that could teach me a bit better E conservation in the P40 (thanks Ghost) and here's a little furball of p38J's goin on using manuvers I didn't think possible of a p38 (even though I've flown it for the past couple months in the DA...) still not satisfied with their achievements...
Either that or people on their 2 week trial that don't know how to take off...
whelp...yes and no.........it seems..or at least feels to me as if the training arena can only take you so far..then you need to get into main arenas for the real experience. people fly differently in ma than in ta....but i still pop in there once in awhile..as i know others do.........