Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Swoop on January 31, 2008, 06:48:12 AM
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You'll like this:
Retired Army Green Beret James T. (Smokey) Taylor got his court martial this weekend and came away feeling pretty good about it. Taylor, at age 79, is one of the oldest members of Chapter XXXIII (The Larry Thorne Chapter) of the Special Forces Association. He was placed on trial by fellow Chapter XXXIII members under the charge of "failing to use a weapon of sufficient caliber" in the shooting of an intruder at his home in Knoxville, TN, in November.
The court martial, of course, was very much tongue in cheek. The event itself was deadly serious.
Taylor had been awakened in the early morning hours of November 5, 2007,when an intruder broke into his home. He investigated the noises with one of his many weapons in hand.
"It was just after Halloween, on Monday morning at 4:30," Taylor said. I heard this commotion at the door and grabbed my fishing gun, a little 22 revolver, to see what was going on. I got to the front door and this fellow had ripped my security door out of its frame. He said, 'you're
going to have to kill me. I'm coming in.'"
When a warning to leave went unheeded, Taylor brought his .22 caliber pistol to bear and shot him right between the eyes.
"I was about four feet away from him when I shot," Taylor said. "Looking back now, I'm glad he didn't die, but that boy had the hardest head I've ever seen. The bullet bounced right off."
The impact knocked the would-be thief down momentarily. He crawled out of the house then got up and ran down the street. Taylor dialed 911 and
Knoxville police apprehended the wounded man about 200 yards away, hiding in a hedgerow.
Complicating the case, as well as the court martial, the offender was released on bail but failed to appear for his court date. Knoxville police said the man was homeless. They did not know his whereabouts or why he had been given bail.
The charges brought against Taylor by his fellow Green Berets were considered to be serious. He is a retired Special Forces Weapons Sergeant with extensive combat experience during the wars in Korea and
Vietnam.
"Charges were brought against him under the premise that he should have saved the county and taxpayers the expense of a trial," said Chapter XXXIII President Bill Long of Asheville, NC.
The trial was held at the Hampton Inn in Brevard, part of the group's regularly scheduled quarterly meeting. Long appointed a judge, Bert Bates, a defense counsel, Jim Hash, and a prosecutor, Charlie Ponds. All are retired Special Forces non-commissioned officers with extensive
combat and weapons experience.
Ponds outlined the case against Taylor, emphasizing that the citizens of Knox County were going to be burdened with significant costs to again apprehend, and then prosecute and defend the would-be burglar.
"Proper choice of a larger caliber gun would have spared the citizens this financial burden," Ponds said, "while removing one bad guy from the streets for good. He could have used a .45 or .38. The .22 just wasn't
big enough to get the job done. Hash disagreed. He said Taylor had done the right thing in choosing to arm himself with a 22.
"If he'd used a .45 or something like that the round would have gone right through the perp, the wall, the neighbor's wall and possibly injured some innocent child asleep in its bed. I believe the evidence shows that Smokey Taylor exercised excellent judgment in his choice of weapons. He clearly remains to this day an excellent weapons man."
Hash then floated a theory as to why the bullet bounced off the perp's forehead.
"He was victimized by old ammunition," he said, "just as he was in Korea and again in Vietnam, when his units were issued ammo left over from World War II."
Taylor said nothing in his own defense, choosing instead to allow his peers to debate the matter. The jury, consisting of all the members of the Chapter, discussed the merits of choosing a larger caliber weapon as
well as the obvious benefits to society of permanently deleting the intruder so he would never again threaten any private citizen.
The other side of the coin, that of accidentally causing injury to a completely innocent citizen if a more powerful gun had been used, also gained considerable support.
Following testimony from both sides, Judge Bates determined the charges should be dismissed. The decision was met with a round of applause. In
fact, there was strong sentiment expressed that Taylor should receive an award for not only choosing wisely in picking up the 22, but for the accuracy of his aim under difficult and dangerous conditions.
After the trial Taylor said the ammunition was indeed old and added the new information that the perp had soiled his pants as he crawled out the door.
"I would have had an even worse mess to clean up if it had gone through his forehead," Taylor said. "It was good for both of us that it didn't."
Meanwhile, back in Knox County, the word is out: Don't go messing with Smokey Taylor. He just bought a whole bunch of fresh ammo.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-8/48257/Swoop2.gif)
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I say buy the man a box of New ammo!
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Another caliber may have bounced off as well...it's anyone's guess what a bullet will do. It is reasonable to assume a .22 would have killed from 4 feet away. It did do as it was relied upon to do, and that is stop the attack.
Realize this court martial was all tongue in cheek and not serious, and certainly understand the sentiment behind it all. However it's not up to us to take the law into our own hands. Things like this mock court martial brings the mentality of these folks into question, in my opinion. The man protected himself and his household. Why the home invader is out on bail and roaming free should be the real issue here.
Some time ago here in Mobile, a Police officer was shot at point blank range in the stomach with a .38 by some street hoodlum. The bullet was stopped by the officer's stomach muscles (he was not wearing a vest.) Think it went in an inch or so. He obviously worked out a lot and was known for being in good shape.
Les
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Originally posted by Leslie
Some time ago here in Mobile, a Police officer was shot at point blank range in the stomach with a .38 by some street hoodlum. The bullet was stopped by the officer's stomach muscles (he was not wearing a vest.) Think it went in an inch or so. He obviously worked out a lot and was known for being in good shape.
.38 is completely useless as a manstopper, thats what we have to use at work (we use S+W revolvers). They pretty much tell you at the range each year that its a useless round and it will probably take the full 6 rounds to even slow down a determined con.
Personally, if I was getting a weapon for home/personal defense, I'd not go any smaller than .45 ACP. Even 9mm is too weak IMO, unless you are firing all hollow points at point-blank range. When I shoot someone, I want them to know they've been hit.
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Originally posted by Leslie
Things like this mock court martial brings the mentality of these folks into question, in my opinion.
Les
To quote the great philosopher: "Lighten up, Francis!"
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Chairboy, of course you're right and I realize it was a fun event for the guys doing it, and they were honoring one of their fellows. I am not condemning it. It's just that in this day and age "gotcha society" we live in, it is smart to watch what you say.
Completely unrelated to this event, I do not agree with the idea of killing someone to save taxpayers money. When I read something like that, my first thought is "reckless for saying something like that." It is questionable, and I believe does harm to the public image of gun owners. In that regard I will not lighten up.
Les
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Originally posted by Leslie
When I read something like that, my first thought is "reckless for saying something like that."
Les
So now it's a thoughtcrime?
That darn constitution, someone made a mistake. Apparently it allows people to say dumb and/or unpopular things too!
...ooooooor, you're no better than the nanny-statists who want all the sharp edges in life filed down and padded.
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seen a 38 special bounce off someones head.
Still.. A 22 is last ditch to me.. just a shade better than a 25.
lazs
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Originally posted by Treize69
.38 is completely useless as a manstopper, thats what we have to use at work (we use S+W revolvers). They pretty much tell you at the range each year that its a useless round and it will probably take the full 6 rounds to even slow down a determined con.
Personally, if I was getting a weapon for home/personal defense, I'd not go any smaller than .45 ACP. Even 9mm is too weak IMO, unless you are firing all hollow points at point-blank range. When I shoot someone, I want them to know they've been hit.
Ive seen bushel baskets of dead people kilt by .38s. Even more by 9mms.
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any bullet will kill. 250 lb guys have been stopped dead in their tracks by .25's with one shot to the torso.
More people have probly been killed by 22's outside of war than any other caliber.
It is just that some calibers are many more times reliable at both stopping further aggression and killing both.
lazs
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Things like this mock court martial brings the mentality of these folks into question, in my opinion.
Uhhhh, its still a free country you know. We do things that we want and enjoy.
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leslie.. I don't agree with killing to save money but I do agree with killing guilty person to keep him from killing or injuring innocent people then and in the future.
If someone is willing to break into your house to steal your stuff while you are there.. he is quite capable of killing you or anyone else to get what he wants.
lazs
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Originally posted by Treize69
.38 is completely useless as a manstopper, thats what we have to use at work (we use S+W revolvers). They pretty much tell you at the range each year that its a useless round and it will probably take the full 6 rounds to even slow down a determined con.
Personally, if I was getting a weapon for home/personal defense, I'd not go any smaller than .45 ACP. Even 9mm is too weak IMO, unless you are firing all hollow points at point-blank range. When I shoot someone, I want them to know they've been hit.
I know of two occasions where i have seen a 9mm fail to penetrate a human skull.
1st was 115gr FMJ --45 degree close contact wound about 1 inch above the ear bullet penetrated the skin but not the skull. Of course this was because of the angle and the bullet basically ricocheted off the victims head
2nd was 124gr Hydra Shok ---shot was fired from about 6 to 7 feet away. Angle of impact was about 80 to 90 degrees(i cant remember exactly as i don't have the case anymore) the entry wound was about 1/2 an inch above the right eyebrow of the victim. That bullet expanded perfectly and only slightly penetrated the outer layers of the skull.
Lots of people that I talk to say Shot placement and not caliber is the key. Well I don't think you can ask for better placement than 80-90 degree angle of impact above the right eye. No he didn't die but HE WAS OUT OF THE FIGHT!
both victims LIVED!:rolleyes:
I'm issued a .40 for duty and I love It! But if your gonna throw rocks might as well throw big ones -----so there's a .45 on my nightstand:aok
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Originally posted by Chairboy
So now it's a thoughtcrime?
That darn constitution, etc. Apparently it allows people to say dumb and/or unpopular things too!
...ooooooor, you're no better than the nanny-statists who want all the sharp edges in life filed down and padded.
I believe you have misunderstood my thoughts on this particular matter Chair. However you are entitled to your opinion and I will not argue with you. I must admit no one has ever inferred nanny statism on me before. I've always thought it conservative to accept responsibility to one's words. If I say something dumb I expect to be called on it.
Les
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Nice job there "Smokey" and glad you made out with no injury to yourself. On the other hand I'd be happy to spring for a new box (brick) of ammo for you myself.
Damn shame the idiot got out on bail and hopefully he'll be arrested again before he actually hurts someone.