Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: quintisv on January 31, 2008, 08:56:48 AM
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Nothing quite says "hi, Im a gutless moron who is here to pick and not fight" quite like it.
Pretty sure you need to hand in your balls as a deposit to take one up out of the hangar.
Least SOME Pick 51 runstangs will actually fight, never seen a D-9 do so unless it was a hapless newb with his gear down.
:furious :huh :aok
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A whine has been recorded, thank you good bye.
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who is quintisv and what is this crap spewing from his mouth?
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Who knows, maybe someone trying to build his post numbers up?
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It always gets me when people complain about Doras, Jugs, 51's etc..that "wont come down and turn fight me in my spitty, zeke, Hurri" etc!" Unless you get a kill shot on a HO or the first lead turn...theres no contest, why would you? Not that is what he's saying, but I have a feeling it might be.
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quint you seem new so i will help you by saying dont post garbage encounter and decent d9 stick and they will most likely demolish you in any fight.
Good day
freez
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Originally posted by evenhaim
quint you seem new so i will help you by saying dont post garbage encounter and decent d9 stick and they will most likely demolish you in any fight.
Good day
freez
Every "decent stick" ive seen in LW is a BnZ "OH NOES RUN AWAY!!!!!!!" dweeb
It always gets me when people complain about Doras, Jugs, 51's etc..that "wont come down and turn fight me in my spitty, zeke, Hurri" etc!"
fly late 109s mainly not exactly a HOcane or sweet16 . If you dont think ur plane can fight then ditch it and find one that can :aok
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Originally posted by stodd
who is quintisv and what is this crap spewing from his mouth?
Don't know who he is, maybe a newb......but for certain he nailed his assessment spot on!:aok
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It always gets me when people complain about Doras, Jugs, 51's etc..that "wont come down and turn fight me in my spitty, zeke, Hurri" etc!"
BTW Im not saying they need to drop flaps and play grab prettythang with HOcanes but making one pass at 400mph then zooming away 4km and waiting for u to get engaged then booming back in for the pick and then nosing down to run like a school girl at the first sign of E parity makes u a COWARD imho
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Originally posted by quintisv
Every "decent stick" ive seen in LW is a BnZ "OH NOES RUN AWAY!!!!!!!" dweeb
fly late 109s mainly not exactly a HOcane or sweet16 . If you dont think ur plane can fight then ditch it and find one that can :aok
I'll be honest, if I up any model of 190, my intentions are to solely BnZ. If I planned to TnB, I would up a plane that could. I agree that it is very frustrating to get picked when you are low and at a disadvantage...such is the norm in the LW MA. My recommendation is to come into the fight almost in orbit...bet you'll be picked a whole lot less. :aok
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Originally posted by quintisv
BTW Im not saying they need to drop flaps and play grab prettythang with HOcanes but making one pass at 400mph then zooming away 4km and waiting for u to get engaged then booming back in for the pick and then nosing down to run like a school girl at the first sign of E parity makes u a COWARD imho
hmmmmmm first off lets see about this. he lived you died. purdy much says he did the right thing.
if you died to a BnZer then your SA sux.
if your wanting a good 1v1 fight meet me in the da and i bet you will not be running that big mouth. find me in the game my ID is kilz
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Quint, you're aware that any decent D9 stick will read this and definitely pick you, right? :lol
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Originally posted by quintisv
BTW Im not saying they need to drop flaps and play grab prettythang with HOcanes but making one pass at 400mph then zooming away 4km and waiting for u to get engaged then booming back in for the pick and then nosing down to run like a school girl at the first sign of E parity makes u a COWARD imho
Using an aircraft's strengths to ones advantage is not cowardice my friend... Getting a 190 low and slow is certain death as the Dora has the turning radius of a B17, when fighting in the weeds. Avoiding certain death and not allowing your opponant an easy kill isn't a school girl trick, it's called being SMART. TnB vs BnZ is an age old conflict, and if you were a little more "seasoned" you might understand the difference. Both are accepted methods of engagement. Try diving a 109G14 at 500kts (oops... lawndart) and you will see it is better suited for the TnB style fight, conversely and 190 A8 turns like an 18 wheeler down low (Check6) so one would conclude that it was better suited for the BnZ style engagement. Both excell in the enviornment they were designed to fight in and both are miserable when you fight them outside the style in which they do well. Personally, if I'm upping into a low turning fight, I'm usually in a spit IX, and If I'm up high coming into a furball I prefer a 190A8 to BnZ the top of the furball. Both are good tactics.
When you see a high 190/Pony/jugg/Tiffy BnZ-ing, try to drag them down low so that you can get them into a turning fight with your Spit XIV/LA (am I correct in guessing your choice of rides?). If the "zoomer" takes the bait, he is usually "toast"!
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Sorry to hear your SA sv
BTW, I saw you making these same statements on 200 last night.
Here's 2 quick 190 stories from last night...
I was only on for about 30-45 minutes last night. I wanted to get in a 190D-9 because I hadn't flown one all camp.
First sortie, I'm fighting a Hurri IIC. I'm staying within a 2K box using the verticals. I have and continue to apply pressure. The kill is just a matter of time. After a few roatations I notice a high 190 but I'm on a firing pass so I look away. As I come around I see the 190 has kept alt but there's a Ki84 approaching from above now too.
I climb, reverse and take a last firing pass at the Hurri then duck into a run. There's no way I'm going to beat the combination of a speedster, a stall fighter and an E-fighter alone with a D-9. Together they eliminate all of my options.
I ran and ended up taking a shot to the oil line by the 190 before I broke guns range. Then headed home and landed safely. There is, and this was, a time to run.
The second sortie, I stayed in and fought first a Spit XVI, then an F6F-5. Both playing within the 2K box, both using the vertical obliques. I won both fights, although there was a second friendly involved against the F6F.
What I'm upset with in this post (as I so often am), is the generalization that (in this case) anyone who flys a 190D-9 is a gutless picker.
I've turn-fought and won against Spits, F6F's, Hurris, F4U's and numerous others in all the FW's but particularily in the A-8 (sometimes with all 3 notches of flaps out and I'm not even a noob). There ARE those of us who will fight with these planes, and no, I didn't have to hand my balls in at the hanger to hop in one.
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noKilz and ballseagle where did I say I died?
FAIL
good on u balls for fighting the fokker though
Moot they were going to pick me anyway :aok
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Originally posted by quintisv
BTW Im not saying they need to drop flaps and play grab prettythang with HOcanes but making one pass at 400mph then zooming away 4km and waiting for u to get engaged then booming back in for the pick and then nosing down to run like a school girl at the first sign of E parity makes u a COWARD imho
But, But, But, if he survives and you don't, that should tell you SOMETHING... "school girls" seem to be smarter than you realize. :rofl
dentin :aok
Repeat after me: It's only a game, it's only a game, it's only a game, it's-only-a-game! :)
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Originally posted by quintisv
BTW Im not saying they need to drop flaps and play grab prettythang with HOcanes but making one pass at 400mph then zooming away 4km and waiting for u to get engaged then booming back in for the pick and then nosing down to run like a school girl at the first sign of E parity makes u a COWARD imho
So up a tempest and run down the runners.
shamus
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Originally posted by quintisv
noKilz and ballseagle where did I say I died?
You didn't. You didn't have to. You came here and posted a "Mommy, mommy, the bad guy killed me" thread.
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I like radial tires.
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I didn't think it was even possible - but the original post registers about -0.00000000000007 on the who-f'in-cares-o-meter....
edit -> P.S. Just up an F4U-4 and run the booger down - and then - if it's an oXXXXXo name in particular - you can listen to him bellyache about it.
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Least SOME Pick 51 runstangs will actually fight, never seen a D-9 do so unless it was a hapless newb with his gear down.
If my Fw190D-9 turned like the 51, then I'd fight like that sometimes.
As it is, the 190s are the worst turing planes in the entire roster. Only the 262 turns worse. People claiming to be able to outturn others in 190s, is basically the L33T guys. The rest of us sucky mediocre folk would rather not become freebie kills by flying the way the enemy wants, in a fight the enemy wants.
Pretty simple to understand, no?
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I guess I gotta hand out some freebies again...
Here ya go quint............
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/211_kleenex.jpg)
and here, these too.................
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/tampon_07.jpg)
If you really knew anything, you would know that the Dora is designed to boom & zoom. Its called using the right tool for the right job. Folks don't get into a turn fight with you in them because they are not stupid.
Would you want your dentist to drill your cavities with his Craftsman screw gun? I doubt it.
Rule #1, if an enemy is higher, don't engage in a fight with anyone. Watch the high one.
Rule #2, if that guy above you is in a Dora, and you choose to engage anyway along with flushing your SA, put your head between your knees and (well, you know the rest)
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Originally posted by VonMessa
Folks don't get into a turn fight with you in them because they are not stupid.
No, they don't get in a turn fight with them because they don't know how or when it's appropriate, although there are a few.
I must be pretty stupid getting all the kills I do in 190's turn/E fighting. :confused:
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No, they don't get in a turn fight with them because they don't know how or when it's appropriate, although there are a few.
I must be pretty stupid getting all the kills I do in 190's turn/E fighting.
Fortunately for you, most people don't know how to turnfight in anything in the first place. Us sucky people like turnfighters because its easy to instinctively turn with them - not because we know how turnfighting works in the first place. We pull the stick, and voila, the plane's inherently better turning than the other guy's plane.. so we tend to think "we're turnfighting!" - except we actually don't know what the hell's going on. We just pull the stick, and let nature take its course.
On the other hand, assuming you'd meet a pilot who's at least as skilled as you yourself, in something like a La-7 or a F4U-4 for example, I'd seriously doubt you'd try turnfighting with him when he's in a plane that turns much better than yours, and is as fast as yours (so you can't bugger out and dive to safety when things don't work out the way you imagined).
So you're not stupid. You're actually smart.
Picking a fight on the usual, clueless MA bottom feeders, and then outflying them in the worst area of performance on your own plane, is a very satisfying method to bolster one's own ego.
However I'd hardly choose such experiences as an objective opinion as to how one might manage a certain plane - you might confuse us sucky people when you say "I can turnfight in them", and then meet another seasoned MA vet in a better turning plane, and then do not actually turnfight him.
We tend to be misled.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
You didn't. You didn't have to. You came here and posted a "Mommy, mommy, the bad guy killed me" thread.
shut it skilless dweeb boi, he was making a comment about how 99.9% of dora dweebs fly in the MA!
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Originally posted by quintisv
Nothing quite says "hi, Im a gutless moron who is here to pick and not fight" quite like it.
Pretty sure you need to hand in your balls as a deposit to take one up out of the hangar.
Least SOME Pick 51 runstangs will actually fight, never seen a D-9 do so unless it was a hapless newb with his gear down.
:furious :huh :aok
I fly Doras so's I can catch your LaLa.
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Kweassa,
Much of what you say is true. The reason for my success turn-fighting in the FW's is my experience vs. the general MA population and particularily my experience in the FW's and in knowing where their limits are. In a match with an equal pilot in a (superior) plane I would no doubt lose. However, in most cases I can make a quick judgement as to the quality of my opponent and decide to engage or not.
I'm not one of the E77T by any means but I am willing to search for the limitations in myself and the planes I fly. You don't find those in a dead run.
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Originally posted by quintisv
Nothing quite says "hi, Im a gutless moron who is here to pick and not fight" quite like it.
Pretty sure you need to hand in your balls as a deposit to take one up out of the hangar.
Least SOME Pick 51 runstangs will actually fight, never seen a D-9 do so unless it was a hapless newb with his gear down.
:furious :huh :aok
So what do you fly?
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From what it said, he mainly fly the 109's and spixteens. I wouldn't want to get low with any 109 to begin with so I'd be pickin in the first place, thats why he dies most often. the spixteen is a SUPER noob airplane and he should definetly not be talking about the pickers if he is in one of those. Oh and on more thing quintisv, would you come down from 8K in a D-9 against a hurri and 200ft and try and fight him?
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I would like to bring up "flying a plane to it's strengths" again here.
The FW190D is a very capable fighter. It is fast, great roll, great climb, good guns. It has many tricks it can pull.
What most the weenie B/Z types you are posting about don't understand is you do not have to only "chery pick" in the Dora.
Let's say I am in a Dora and come across a Niki co alt with me. I of course will not start a stall fight with it (that's suicide unless they are REALLY horrible). I will use my speed and climb in the verticle to gain a positional advantage on the niki. Once I have that, it's just a matter of me landing the shot I am about to create.
A good trick is to get above them and "fake" comin' back down. MOST pilots will nose up to meet you for the HO. (suckers) Drop down JUST long 'nuff to build some Energy (you should be pulling 0G's at this point to gain the most Energy) and get them to commit to the move and go right back up again. Give 'em a shot. ALMOST. Almost is the key here. You are trying to make 'em "go for it" If timed right, you did one of two things. 1) Set them up for an easy rope 2) Just put them out of position with no Energy. Both things are "good" things. They are either dead, or you are above them with energy.
The KEY is to not allow too much seperation so the niki can build back up its Energy. 90% of the players that B/Z make this mistake. They do not keep the pressure up on their opponent. Once I am in position on the niki, I will attack it FORCING them to dodge or die. When I am training, I refer to this as "herding" I "herd" the niki untill it's in position to give me a kill.
The "trick" to herding is you are rarely committing to an attack pass. You just want them to THINK you are (or might be) and force them to react. The only time you actually "commit" to the attack pass really should be when you pull y'er trigger and kill them.
I can' count how many times i'm the one in the niki and some pony/dora/la7 etc is Boom and Zooming me and allowing time to build up my energy and Position. After 4-5 passes we are generally almost co-E and it's "run time or die" for the B/Z'r.
It's not the PLANE it's the PILOT.
(I say that all the time and it's spot on)
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Do you like your cheese at room temperature quintisv? :cry
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Originally posted by waystin2
Do you like your cheese at room temperature quintisv? :cry
You should know what temp to keep it, cheese represents all ur skillz!
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Originally posted by SkyRock
shut it skilless dweeb boi, he was making a comment about how 99.9% of dora dweebs fly in the MA!
Defending your latest ankle bracelet or what? :)
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I love the 190 D9 . It is a great porking airplane. I would never use it to dog fight in, but if I am going to a field to pork ords and a low and slow airplane is there for the taking I will attempt to shot it down, just like anyone else would in the game. B&Z are this airplanes strenghts. :aok
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Ahhhh, a thread about MA fighter tactics.
Time to point out...You are takeing a late-WWII airplane, designed to fly at higher alts' and speeds, and most of you are trying to fly it like a WWI biplane. THAT'S the problem.
Think of the Dora and Mustang drivers' as people who actually KNOW their planes. You want them to fight your fight; they are gonna try to make you fight yours.
If this game was all about one type of fight, then we would only have one plane in the hangar for all of us to use, to keep it at one game.
You have to learn each plane, and know what it can do. Even if you don't fly it personally, you will benefit immensely from knowing what the other guy can do with it.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Ahhhh, a thread about MA fighter tactics.
Time to point out...You are takeing a late-WWII airplane, designed to fly at higher alts' and speeds, and most of you are trying to fly it like a WWI biplane. THAT'S the problem.
Think of the Dora and Mustang drivers' as people who actually KNOW their planes. You want them to fight your fight; they are gonna try to make you fight yours.
If this game was all about one type of fight, then we would only have one plane in the hangar for all of us to use, to keep it at one game.
You have to learn each plane, and know what it can do. Even if you don't fly it personally, you will benefit immensely from knowing what the other guy can do with it.
But but but... I'd like to point out that if follow this credo, and only do what is "safest" in the aircraft, you will likely miss out on some wonderful fights, and even worse, a great opportunity to learn your own aircraft even better in a very short time.
The F4U is not meant to be a "dogfighter" - it's relatively (-1A and D) high wingloading coupled with relatively poor acceleration and some pretty nasty handling characteristics make it a plane to generally avoid turnfighting in, and a bad plane to be caught at an E disadvantage in.
At the beginning of the last TOD, I decided that I was going to "push it" with the aircraft, and for the last 2 TOD's rather than start out at a rear field and gain alt (and then disengage before losing the energy advantage) I've been taking off at the foremost field under attack, and fighting my way up past the attackers.
You learn an awful lot in fairly short order about what can and cannot be done in the aircraft - stuff that would take a LOT longer (maybe never!) if you limit yourself to flying it only in it's "sweet spot".
So fly what you want, whatever way you are comfortable with, but consider that the harder you push yourself and your plane, the quicker you'll learn where the edges are, and the better you'll become at riding to within a hairs-breadth of them. And not coincidentally, you'll probably have a more fun and rewarding game experience if you do so.
And... what I suspect you'll probably find is what I did - after 2 TOD's of pushing it, I'm actually running higher kill/death ratios than I did when I was mostly playing it safe - and am tons more confident in my aircraft.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Ahhhh, a thread about MA fighter tactics.
Time to point out...You are takeing a late-WWII airplane, designed to fly at higher alts' and speeds, and most of you are trying to fly it like a WWI biplane. THAT'S the problem.
Think of the Dora and Mustang drivers' as people who actually KNOW their planes. You want them to fight your fight; they are gonna try to make you fight yours.
If this game was all about one type of fight, then we would only have one plane in the hangar for all of us to use, to keep it at one game.
You have to learn each plane, and know what it can do. Even if you don't fly it personally, you will benefit immensely from knowing what the other guy can do with it.
Sooooo true. one problem though. When you meet these guys that "KNOW" their planes in a plane that can catch them, you find out that all they know about their plane is that it can dive away.
Then you get a text about how there is no way your plane could out dive P51 or a D9
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Originally posted by WMLute
I would like to bring up "flying a plane to it's strengths" again here.
Spot on Lute!
It can be very exciting for fight a capable energy fighter in a turn fighter if your opponent knows what he is doing and is actually trying to WIN the engagement, not just run away out of icon range and come back looking for the blind side pick.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Defending your latest ankle bracelet or what? :)
No, simply stating the facts as I see them! :aok
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Originally posted by Ghastly
The F4U is not meant to be a "dogfighter"
GO wash your mouth out!:aok
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Just an observation, but if you can't evade/avoid a Dora bearing in from sub-orbital at 400+ MPH, your a complete moron. SA.
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lolz me smells a shade
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
Just an observation, but if you can't evade/avoid a Dora bearing in from sub-orbital at 400+ MPH, your a complete moron. SA.
If you're already in a furball, trying to look 8 ways' at once, it can be easy to miss the picker on high. I believe that's the genesis of his complaint.
And it's not just the Dora. P-47N's, P51's, P-38's, Yak's, LA-7's even. All of those have been used for the 'pick'.
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If a pilot could sneak up on you in your s;eep and stab you to record a kill,...he would.
The reason the D9 , and 51, and Spad, e.t.c. where introduced is because they are FAST, and manuverable at higher speeds than the nme planes fielded against them at the time...
Speed is life, never press a bad position, the D9 almost makes you fly as the rules dictate, because if you try to outturn an aircraft with supperior cornering speed, you will die.
Stop whining, and get in a relevant aircraft................ or get picked off like a newb....i dont care either way really :D
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some people attach so much importance to the ability to make a maximum rate turn and equate this with skill. however they are only seeing part of the big picture of air combat tactics.
turn fighting is the easiest aspect of air combat to become proficient in as it requires slow flying and close ranges. these two ingredients help those with weak gunnery to attain kills they otherwise would be unable to achieve. by flying a relatively fast plane with excellent turn ability the novice is equipped to fight with a fair chance of success using turn fight methods.
this works fine for 1vs1 engagements certainly. where the proverbial wrench is thrown in the logic and viability of the turnfighter is in the multiplane engagement.
in a multiplane engagement using turn fight methods the turn fighter will be constantly exposed to attacks from other enemy planes while engaging the first plane they target. here is where extreme skill and situational awareness are required if outnumbered and being attacked from abaove by energy fighters who use their superior potential energy to maintain an attack position fighter pilots call "the perch".
in this situation the weaknesses of the turn fighter become obvious. it is generally to slow to escape. it has no potential energy available for a diving escape because it was or still is engaged in a low speed turn fight which until its oponent is destroyed is also a threat.
the life span of the turn fighter in this most common situation is measured in seconds. the more enemy planes int he area the shorter the lifespan of the turn fighter will be. they will also have extremely limited chances for a kill before sucumbing to the e fighters above or the turn fighter they failed to kill that is now on their six.
because of this inherent weakness in the slow speed turn fight tactics most air forces in world war two recognized the viability of energy fighting and high speed slashing attacks. this gave rise to heavier planes ill suited to turn fighting and designed for speed and power and either dive or climb ability.
opposing flights of enemy fighters would try very hard to start the fight froma position of advantage. the best position of course would be from above and if possible out of the sun.
this gives rise to another aspect of air combat tha is completely ignored by most players of aces high...
Stealth.
Stealth attacks were the attacks of choice of almost every fighter pilot who realised the advantage of stalking an unsuspecting unaware target flying along "fat, dumb and happy" Hartman and many others perfected this method of executing their prey by approaching unseen, attacking from point blank range and escaping before the victims friends knew what happened. the efficiency and lethality of such an attack is obvious.
Stealth attacks are the most difficult to execute in aces high however due to having in flight awacs radar dots, darbar, instant check sixes, vox and if thats not bad enough your engine noise can give you away to the dweebiest of pilots when you get in guns range even if they do not see you with their mkII eyeballs.
however due to the difficulty they are the most fun and rewarding attacks to make when succesful.
when flying for a stealth attack on a target that is not currently occupied in a fight it is necessary to have a fast climbing fast plane that will allow you to stay below your target out of their field of vision and using your aircrafts superior speed and climb quickly climb up below them to close range and open fire. seeing their aircraft loom close and closer wondering if they will be alerted to your presense before you fire is terrific fun. :)
the other means of stealth attack is a favorite of e fighters... killing a preoccupied enemy already chasing someone else. :D
the basic concept is the same. the target that is most likely to succumb to this attack will be unaware of your presense until it is to late and they are dead. it is an attack carried out all the time in the MA by e fighters and turn fighters alike. it usually happens by hapenstance but sometimes players will fly in tandem to create such situations as the drag and bag.
but back to the origional topic of BnZ pick tards... world war2 was all about being Bnz picktards. ask the japenese how the a6m turn fighter worked out for them against f6fs and p38s. most world war2 combat started as a bnz picktard fest that degenerated into a turnfight between picktards.
BnZ is a form of e fighting where the attacker stays on the perch and dives on targets of oportunity and zooms back up to their perch for their next firing pass or next kill. the only ways to kill the bnz pick tard is if you can get a split second snapshot as he zooms up or if you come in above the bnz picktard, dive on him and attain the prized stealth kill or force him into a turn fight or a drag race if you have a faster plane and run him down as he dives to escape.
thats a long winded explanation to say that the BNZ pick tards tactics are 100% historically accurate and their tactics are more effective than turn fighting in that a BnZer can engage an unlimited number of enemies from a position of advantage and survive while a turn and buern dweeb can deal with only a few before being over run. and when bnz pick tard tactics are attempted by someone who knows how to do them... the turn and burn dweeb dosnt get the chance to whine about the bnz dweeb escaping because the turn and burn dweeb is already dead and the bnzer is setting up their next kill.
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I couldn't agree more with Festers post. Learning how to manage your E in a fight against multiple cons takes so much more skill than 1 v 1 turn fights. Much less getting hits on any of the multiple cons.
E is your life in this game, lose it and you die if out numbered. I have to say Fester has to be one of the best at holding his E getting amazing shot and not dieing.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Don't know who he is, maybe a newb......but for certain he nailed his assessment spot on!:aok
don't make me get luftwaffen on your arse Mark :p
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Originally posted by quintisv
Every "decent stick" ive seen in LW is a BnZ "OH NOES RUN AWAY!!!!!!!" dweeb
fly late 109s mainly not exactly a HOcane or sweet16 . If you dont think ur plane can fight then ditch it and find one that can :aok
If you're flying a 109 and you can't beat a 190 you're not flying it right.
a 190 is almost always an easy kill for the 109 pilot worth his salt.
If they're that fast that you can't get anywhere near a shot on them... they're easy to evade and you can use the reset time either sucker them down or climb up to them. If they're not fast enough for that, they're dead, if you're any good.
I fly 109's most of the time too but I'll take a Dora out when I feel like it, it's a nice aircraft. I'll fight to the bone in it too but I won't fly it like a spit.
In my opinion the Dora's flight characterics are porked in AH so it's almost pointless trying to do anything other than stay fast in it. It takes real dedication to get anywhere in the Dora in a dog-fighting (not kill numbers) sense.
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I suppose this is a bit of a highjack but while were on the subject of Doras and 190s in general, weren't they supposed to be the uber german fighters? Everything I've ever seen seems to indicate that they were superior to the 109s and more than a match for anything the allies could field. Is Xasthur right and they are just nerfed into uselessness? I haven't really been into air history for a while but when I was more attentive, it seems everything I can remember about the 190s is that they were the end all/be all.
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u guys all keep admitting as much that D-9 Cant really get down and dirty so u gotta pick and run and noob and zoom :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl if flying German is ur thing take up a 109 :aok :t :lol
D-9 Pilots convention
(http://www.mountainrunningkeswick.org.uk/images/47M40runners.jpg)
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
I suppose this is a bit of a highjack but while were on the subject of Doras and 190s in general, weren't they supposed to be the uber german fighters? Everything I've ever seen seems to indicate that they were superior to the 109s and more than a match for anything the allies could field. Is Xasthur right and they are just nerfed into uselessness? I haven't really been into air history for a while but when I was more attentive, it seems everything I can remember about the 190s is that they were the end all/be all.
109s are more fun to fly in this game.
If it came to a real war and the aircraft were modelled here 100% accurately I'd take the 190 D9 without a second thought.
It's an aircraft more likely to bring you home.
It just turns like a bomber and in-game I feel its 20mm cannons are under-modelled to say the least. This makes it no fun to fly in the MA, because you can't get down and dirty if you want like you can in the 109.
I do also feel that the 190s are hampered by overly severe stall buffeting and snap-rolling. Someone posted a Youtube film about Tempests showing 190As doing things that ours couldn't do.
I think the model is ultimately on the right track... just a bit severe in its downfalls, that's all.
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Originally posted by quintisv
u guys all keep admitting as much that D-9 Cant really get down and dirty so u gotta pick and run and noob and zoom :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl if flying German is ur thing take up a 109 :aok :t :lol
D-9 Pilots convention
(http://www.mountainrunningkeswick.org.uk/images/47M40runners.jpg)
Again.. what nobel plane is it that you fly so greatly?
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What's your in-game handle quintisv?
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Originally posted by Xasthur
109s are more fun to fly in this game.
If it came to a real war and the aircraft were modelled here 100% accurately I'd take the 190 D9 without a second thought.
It's an aircraft more likely to bring you home.
It just turns like a bomber and in-game I feel its 20mm cannons are under-modelled to say the least. This makes it no fun to fly in the MA, because you can't get down and dirty if you want like you can in the 109.
I do also feel that the 190s are hampered by overly severe stall buffeting and snap-rolling. Someone posted a Youtube film about Tempests showing 190As doing things that ours couldn't do.
I think the model is ultimately on the right track... just a bit severe in its downfalls, that's all.
100% agreed Xasthur,
my main ride this tour has been the d9 and shes a helluva beast, you just gotta fly with some intellegence, thinking 1 step ahead at all times, forsee where your oppenent will end up for a quick snapshot. I would never run from a 1 on 1 as i see this as being pointless.
but as xasthur stated if i want to really turn and burn down in the muck ill take a 109 any day, g14 for snapshots f4 and g2 for furballs :)
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All depends on how a player gets his kicks out of the game. I tried the B&Z perch thing and it wasn't for me at this time. I like stall/turn fighting. Reason guys get down on the B&Z is cause they are like gnats in your face when you're trying to work but yet turn fighters never disrupt the B&Z guys. Knifefighting angles is my fun. If I wanted a high K/D and good score I would absolutly learn to perch.
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There's no gnats or dweebier tactics. Their only real measure is who's dead in the end, and how much peril the survivor put himself up against.
Anyone who says 190s can't get in the mix of a furball just hasn't been around long enough to see the better 190 sticks at it. Someone pushing that spiel likely doesn't understand what the 190 was designed for either, as said in the previous posts. It's taking things completely out of context.. These planes were made in and for WWII, not by HTC and for AH.
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Well he certainly got some attention he was craving...
IIRC there was a player with similar handle playing WW2OL and the style is certaily the same as on those boards. :p
-C+
PS. "We pull the stick, and voila, the plane's inherently better turning than the other guy's plane.. so we tend to think "we're turnfighting!" - except we actually don't know what the hell's going on. We just pull the stick, and let nature take its course." :D
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Originally posted by Citabria
Stealth attacks are the most difficult to execute in aces high however due to having in flight awacs radar dots, darbar, instant check sixes, vox and if thats not bad enough your engine noise can give you away to the dweebiest of pilots when you get in guns range even if they do not see you with their mkII eyeballs.
<-- Laughed.
Agree. Motion to reduce icon visibility to 2-3K.
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Originally posted by moot
Anyone who says 190s can't get in the mix of a furball just hasn't been around long enough to see the better 190 sticks at it.
Agreed. 190's are great fun in a furball or any multi vs multi plane engagement for that matter.
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Originally posted by moot
Anyone who says 190s can't get in the mix of a furball just hasn't been around long enough to see the better 190 sticks at it.
I know there are a few. I fought Urchin in one, me in yak9u, and had to slap myself to make sure I was awake.....yes he killed me:D
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D9s taste like chicken....:p
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Dora is a beast of a plane. 100% fuel and the 500 Kg bomb. Deliver ordinance. Flying back to a home base that's being harried is fun.
Come toddling in at 8K to 15K or so scooting along at 375 TAS. Fun to see those with vulches/kills start to skidattle.
If not the best Jabo in the plane set, one of them.
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We weren't talking about 190s in general, just the D. A5s can furball ok, but it wouldn't be my first choice to mix it up with. I think the rest turn like trucks and if you actually get caught in a turnfight, your going to have a tough time of it.
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Searched for your name quintisv, to see what plane you fly, but there's
no record of you. So what name to you fly under?
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
We weren't talking about 190s in general, just the D. A5s can furball ok, but it wouldn't be my first choice to mix it up with. I think the rest turn like trucks and if you actually get caught in a turnfight, your going to have a tough time of it.
They turn like crap but you can still maneuver quite well in them. I fly A8's all the time and end up on the deck more often than I'd like.
Sure the turn radius sucks, but they have an awesome roll rate. If I'm on the deck I tend to get the other con into a scissor fight. You can almost always make the average MA pilot over shoot, assuming the other guy isn't a real good stick.
Then you can pounce. granted it's not my favorite position to be in, but the 190's are pretty tough aircrafts and can take a few hits, giving you time to get an advantage.
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well, 190 is the worst plane in the game :rolleyes:
BigBOBCH
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Originally posted by quintisv
BTW Im not saying they need to drop flaps and play grab prettythang with HOcanes but making one pass at 400mph then zooming away 4km and waiting for u to get engaged then booming back in for the pick and then nosing down to run like a school girl at the first sign of E parity makes u a COWARD imho
It's a game.
Cowardly pixels. Blimey. Whatever next?
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If the MA were about anything resembling honorable or fair single combat, then one would have to be crazy to take up a D9, as opposed to a Spit, Hurri, or some other turner with sweet handling.
However, it ain't, it just ain't. Take up good old Spit, do a nice lead turn on the first bandit you see, settle on his six nicely, cut your throttle down to pull in real nice and close and give him the canns, and what can you expect? Generally, 2-3 of his closest friends coming in to pick or saddle up on you. (If the only other planes in sight are wearing green, you can usually expect them to all come in and "help" you with that con on your 12...but that's another issue)
If you think a Dora diving in at high speed to backstab you during a dogfight is annoying, consider the Hurri or Zeke that comes in and saddles up. (Not that there is anything wrong with clearing a countryman's six, I'm not the one complaining about "unfair" tactics.) Then consider that even the ones you kill will be reupping to come in higher and better-planed for vengeance...it's like fighting zombies in a graveyard. At this point, a plane with escapability starts to look real good.
Don't like picking? Many planes are much better pickers than the Dora, they have as good or better guns and can turn alot better. You want a real furball picking machine? Grab you a Nik. No, what the D9 is good for is assuring that if you don't do anything too stupid, you can usually leave the gang behind and land when its time to be leaving. The price it pays for this escapability is vastly inferior turning and that much more difficulty actually getting kills. A fair trade, IMO.
Not nesscarily a choice that stems from a timid personality either, perhaps an anti-social one instead. A fast plane makes it possible to fly and fight by yourself, without the guarantee of being ganged and shot down.
Whenever I hear a complaint about someone running in a Pony or a D9 or the like, I think to myself, does the person making the complaint REALLY wish the other guy was a vastly more competent stick, who would actually shoot down their (insert name of superior turning fighter here) instead of running from it? Or are they instead wishing that their less-skilled opponent would obligingly begin an unwinnable turn radius fight with them, thus giving them an easy kill? Clearly, it is the latter, and just as clearly, there is very little difference between this mindset and the mindset of shooting planes on the runway.
If alot of the D9 drivers are extending too soon in 1v1 situations where it might be possible for them to get a kill, that's their loss and no one else's IMO.
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I used to tell people (once I found out who they were) -
"I understand learning how to fight is probably too much to ask, but could you please at least learn how to shoot?"
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Originally posted by redman555
well, 190 is the worst plane in the game :rolleyes:
BigBOBCH
That's what I love about the BBs. The depth of knowledge of the members never ceases to amaze me. :lol
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Originally posted by evenhaim
lolz me smells a shade
Of course it is
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Well Said Fester,
Fester, when did ya start lowering the bar on Muppet recruitment? LOL im gone for a year and come back to see some guys in the muppets that wouldnt make it into the ol MAWS :lol
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i fly 190's almost exclusively. i dont BNZ other pilots, but i will evade to build up speed. the d9 is a sherman tank with wings. At 300+ its an awesome machine. Below 300, its a nightmare. if you look at my other posts about trying not to auger in flying low and slow in a 190, you'll get the idea. i make long wide turns and i wont go head to head with a 51 because its a free kill for him. i will try to out run him, build up some speed and come back around on it. this are the strengths of the 190. im no expert at this game but ive had some great coaching and im starting to hold my own. if you are that cranky about the 190, try flying one in a dogfight, you find out very quickly why people use the run tactic. again try flying one for awhile then come back and lets us know how you made out on a 1V1 against a 51 or a spit. we'll be waiting with anticipation
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Originally posted by captain1ma
if you are that cranky about the 190, try flying one in a dogfight, you find out very quickly why people use the run tactic. again try flying one for awhile then come back and lets us know how you made out on a 1V1 against a 51 or a spit. we'll be waiting with anticipation
You are wrong, it can fight. Fighting is not just turning. It is not BnZing either. Try e-fighting it. Find me in the game and I will show you.
If you think you are right and that the 190 cannot fight, then why are you in it?
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Complaining about Doras flying high and fast is like complaining about Jeeps driving low and slow.
Each machine is doing the job for which it was designed.
Just because its owner chooses not to fight in a way that best suits your plane's strengths doesn't make him a dweeb, or you any better.
Do all the Zeke aces say, "Man, those Spit dweebs! All they do is stay high and fast, instead of mixing it up with me! They're total dweebs." I think not.
-Llama
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Originally posted by llama
Complaining about Doras flying high and fast is like complaining about Jeeps driving low and slow.
Each machine is doing the job for which it was designed.
Just because its owner chooses not to fight in a way that best suits your plane's strengths doesn't make him a dweeb, or you any better.
Do all the Zeke aces say, "Man, those Spit dweebs! All they do is stay high and fast, instead of mixing it up with me! They're total dweebs." I think not.
-Llama
:rofl why exactly wouldn't you turn a spit with a zero?
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Everything about the D9 works best at high speed.
Quint, you still haven't told us what your in game name is.
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I like run flat tires!
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Great advice Lute. You have described my fate almost exactly. However the fight usually takes less time then it took to read your post. I end up just hanging there as the cannon shells fly around.
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Originally posted by moot
Everything about the D9 works best at high speed.
Quint, you still haven't told us what your in game name is.
My guess is SR :D
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I learned a long, long time ago something that has put threads like this into perspective.
I'm not nearly as good as I think I am.
No matter what I fly, there's always someone out there better at it than I am.
I would suggest spending less time coming to the BBS to whine about how someone else flies and use that time to practice with your own ride. Better yet, take up a D9 and learn all you can about it. That'll make you better in the long run.
Anyone else got some more cheese? This canned stuff is making me sick...
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After reading this thread I upped the Dora last night and had some interesting fights.
Died the once thanks to needing a piss and forgetting the auto pilot.
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They should remove all planes but rv8. that way it will be even and collide to win the game!! woho
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Originally posted by dedalos
You are wrong, it can fight. Fighting is not just turning. It is not BnZing either. Try e-fighting it. Find me in the game and I will show you.
If you think you are right and that the 190 cannot fight, then why are you in it?
I think jaeger was saying just because he doesnt drop flaps and try turning with a A6M doesnt mean it cant fight. Speed is the key with the dora if you dont have it you better kiss your bellybutton good bye. Although the dora can out turn a pony I would rather e fight or B&Z it for as long as I can. If I screw up then Ill get down and dirty and turn it. Some one whining about a dora running is like some one whining about a hurri1 turning.
I would love to know whos shade quintisv is because I bet hes a lghay or spit16 dweeb.
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Originally posted by froger
I like run flat tires!
Those are nice.