Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: crockett on February 01, 2008, 11:10:07 AM
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Ok I flew Allies for the most part this last frame.. I saw more than my fair share of whines about spits. So I wanted to toss out some stats.
First off in EW which has pretty close to the same plane set as what we had in AvA this frame the 190a5 is a perked ride. If it sucks so much why is it perked? Meanwhile the Spit 9 is not perked in EW.
The stats appear to not be working in AvA in regards to plane vs plane kill stats, so I looked it up in the MA's. Last tour this is the kill stats between the two planes.
Fw 190A-5 has 90 Kills of Spitfire Mk IX
Spitfire Mk IX has 88 Kills of Fw 190A-5
From my own stats in LW where I flew the 190 A8 about 55% of the tour I had 230 kills in the A8 which is heavier plane than the A5. So IMO it's harder to fly.
from my stats I killed more spitfires than any other plane for a total of 94.
This is my "Kills of" stats... 1st number is kills in, second number is kills of.
Spitfire Mk I 0 4
Spitfire Mk IX 0 9
Spitfire Mk V 0 9
Spitfire Mk VIII 0 22
Spitfire Mk XIV 0 1
Spitfire Mk XVI 0 49
As you see I don't fly spits in the MA so I have no kills in a spit.
Second set of stats.. are Killed by...
Spitfire Mk I 0
Spitfire Mk IX 3
Spitfire Mk V 2
Spitfire Mk VIII 8
Spitfire Mk XIV 1
Spitfire Mk XVI 24
My 190 stats..total kills in.
Fw 190A-8 230
Fw 190D-9 112 (granted there are no D9's in AvA yet)
As you can see I easily have a 3 to 1 kill/death ratio vs Spitfires in the MA. Considering I had a total of 496 kills while in fighter mode and 342 of them were done in 190's more than half were done in the 190a8 I think it's safe to say most of those spit kills were done in a 190.
I'm so sick of hearing whines about spit9's in AvA so I wanted to post some stats.
It is a fact the the 190 A5 is far more lethal than a Spit 9. If a Spit 9 gets his "few" cannons on your 190 it is very unlikely you will die from the first hit.
9 times out of 10 if a Spit 9 gets his cannons on a 190 during a snap shot, the 190 will fly off with little damage. Very rarely will a Spit 9 blow the wing off of a 190 with one hit. Very rarely will a spit nine take out the engine of a 190 in 1 hit.
In short the 190's are extremely tough planes. Flip that around and ask your self how easy it in to blow the wings off of a spit or blow one apart with the big cannons in the 190?
Hell in the MA I look for spits to kill because I know how easy they die. I'm sick of the whines about the Allies Spit 9's being so uber and that the Axis have nothing to fight them. Personally I hate flying the spit simply because I know if I get hit once it likely means I'm dead.
So to put it short, if you can't kill spits with your 190's you arent flying it right.
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Originally posted by crockett
First off in EW which has pretty close to the same plane set as what we had in AvA this frame the 190a5 is a perked ride. If it sucks so much why is it perked? Meanwhile the Spit 9 is not perked in EW.
Because its a 1943 plane in early war setup same with the P38G spit9 and lanc.
Edit: the "whines" are because its a SPIT. You guys have mossis and P47D-25s for chirsts sakes. If I played allied you guys wouldnt see me in any other plane but the mossi.
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Originally posted by Larry
Because its a 1943 plane in early war setup same with the P38G spit9 and lanc.
I was wondering why it was perked, guess that explains it.
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Originally posted by Larry
Edit: the "whines" are because its a SPIT. You guys have mossis and P47D-25s for chirsts sakes. If I played allied you guys wouldnt see me in any other plane but the mossi.
For the record I'm a "canon" dweeb and I'll admit it. I'd say 80% of my kills in the MA are from setting up 1 burst kills. I learned flying the Huri 1 to not waste ammo until I know I have a kill lined up. (I'd fly the Huri 1 but again the Axis planes are too tough for quick kills)
The allies only have 2 regular fighters with cannons. Spit 9 is the only "true" fighter we have with cannons. While I do like the P38G it's far too big of a target for the cannons in your 190's. Neither of those two planes can I be sure I'll get a 1 burst kill against the Axis 190's or 109's. Flip that around and when flying a 190 I can almost guarantee that I can set up 1 burst kills against Spits and P38's.
In a 1 on 1 fight I don't mind a p38 but it's not very often that it's 1 vs 1 here. Hell I'd fly the P40e if I could, but honestly it just doesn't have the "killing power" to kill several 190's and 109's.
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Our 109G2 was the only limited plane last week. I mainly put them on our CV so they would always be front line. Our mossi is a fighter version it has twice the cannons then the spit9 and carrys almost three times the ammo. The mossi is only 4mph slower then the 190A5 and turns 20m better. Vs the 109G2 the mossi is still again a few mph slower but gets out turned by only 10m.
Spit9 vs mossi
Speed:
Spit9 - 310 (wep319) otd
Mossi - 322 (wep336) otd
Turning:
spit - 131M
mossi - 154M
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Originally posted by Larry
Our 109G2 was the only limited plane last week. I mainly put them on our CV so they would always be front line. Our mossi is a fighter version it has twice the cannons then the spit9 and carrys almost three times the ammo. The mossi is only 4mph slower then the 190A5 and turns 20m better. Vs the 109G2 the mossi is still again a few mph slower but gets out turned by only 10m.
Spit9 vs mossi
Speed:
Spit9 - 310 (wep319) otd
Mossi - 322 (wep336) otd
Turning:
spit - 131M
mossi - 154M
Our mossi and p47d were limited we only had them at specific bases. That's why I say I flew what we had.
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Same with our 109G2s but I saw a hell of a lot more of them then mossis last week. Once I seen a pair of mossis the whole of last week. I just hope you guys dont get another spit so we can see some mossis flying around.
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Originally posted by Larry
Same with our 109G2s but I saw a hell of a lot more of them then mossis last week. Once I seen a pair of mossis the whole of last week. I just hope you guys dont get another spit so we can see some mossis flying around.
Well I flew the Mossi 1 or 2 times but as I say it was limited and to be honest I don't have much time in them. I've done a lot of time in 110's playing as a fighter but not much in a Mossi.
edit..
I'm probably going to fly more as Axis this next frame depending on what plane sets are offered. As I've always liked the Axis planes more than Allies. (I typically fly 190A8's and Ki61's) I've never been a fan on the Allies fighters and don't really like them.
I flew allied last frame because first time I logged in Allies were way out numbered.
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Think of the mossi as a faster 110 with better guns. It turns 3M less then the 110 but is 15mph faster and hold E alot better, and did I say anything about the guns? 110 has two 20mms and two 30mms the mossi has the four 50cal 20mms.
Oh we are going to have a few "Axis HO tards" threads this week I can already hear it and its oh so sweet. We have a great HO plane in our line up for next week.
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Originally posted by Larry
the mossi has the four 50cal 20mms.
It has 4 303s and 4 20mm
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Originally posted by Larry
Think of the mossi as a faster 110 with better guns. It turns 3M less then the 110 but is 15mph faster and hold E alot better, and did I say anything about the guns? 110 has two 20mms and two 30mms the mossi has the four 50cal 20mms.
Oh we are going to have a few "Axis HO tards" threads this week I can already hear it and its oh so sweet. We have a great HO plane in our line up for next week.
Well in reality there was only one substained fight where the Mossy was on the front lines. At that point there was so much action I didnt' want to try a new plane. We didn't get the Mossy until that night, then after that it was too far back to use.
I did fly the P47D 3 sectors to use it one sortie, but took about 30 mins and I ended up in a fight with A6m's on the deck. So let's say it wasn't worth the flight time.
As for HO tards.. well there were a few of them, I can tell you that for sure.
:rofl
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(http://80thfs.homestead.com/motivator2474733.jpg)
:rolleyes: :D :p
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duh.. n/m
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I don't think it is the spitfire as much as it is the way you guys employ it.
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Originally posted by Treize69
(http://80thfs.homestead.com/motivator2474733.jpg)
:rolleyes: :D :p
We need to get this stickied. Somehow. :rofl
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Originally posted by heythere
I don't think it is the spitfire as much as it is the way you guys employ it.
so in other words we wouldn't fight ur fight.. so that makes it dweeby. :lol
btw you ever going to be brave enough to actually post your in game name? You are so hip to criticize and attack on the forum, yet so chicken to let us know whom you are.
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oh so I won't fight your fight....goose? gander?
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Originally posted by heythere
oh so I won't fight your fight....goose? gander?
Congrats.. you have just become the first person I've ever put on my ignore list. You are obviously nothing more than a troll as you are too chicken to post your in game name, yet so willing to criticize.
Must be a squeaker..
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hmmm goose I reckon
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Now that's funny...don't care who you are.
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Originally posted by Solar10
It has 4 303s and 4 20mm
LOL I fly the thing alot I know what it has. You didnt get my little "joke".
50cals can kill out to 1k oout so can the mossis 20mms. So you get it now?
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Originally posted by crockett
Congrats.. you have just become the first person I've ever put on my ignore list. You are obviously nothing more than a troll as you are too chicken to post your in game name, yet so willing to criticize.
Must be a squeaker..
I think he is something a bit more than a troll and not a squeeker.
But the question is valid. I am not sure what way Mr. Heythere thinks the spits are flown that can't be overcome by Axis tactics or skills. After all, its about the pilot, not the plane, right?
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Originally posted by KONG1
Now that's funny...don't care who you are.
Heh. I suspect we all know who he is!
- oldman
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Originally posted by E25280
After all, its about the pilot, not the plane, right?
Thats like saying it takes two to HO.
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Originally posted by Larry
Thats like saying it takes two to HO.
Oh, come now, Mr. "Aimbot" (that one still has me :lol ) are you saying if a sucky pilot like me is in the SpitIX and you are in the 190 that you will be unable to beat me?
No plane makes someone unbeatable . . . which is why I find all the plane-specific complaining to be nothing more than excuse making. Whether every ally in the game is flying a Spit or a Hurri or a P-51 or whatever should make no difference, same as it should make no difference if every axis player is flying a 190d9 or 110G2 or .
I am in no way saying every match up is "fair" or that I wouldn't do better in a SpitIX than I could in a 109E, but if I was the 109E I wouldn't be complaining about the SpitIX's advantage either.
The key is to adjust tactics and use your own side's strengths to overcome the other.
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Originally posted by E25280
I am in no way saying every match up is "fair" or that I wouldn't do better in a SpitIX than I could in a 109E, but if I was the 109E I wouldn't be complaining about the SpitIX's advantage either.
The key is to adjust tactics and use your own side's strengths to overcome the other.
....er....the Emil really does not have very many advantages over a Spit 9.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
....er....the Emil really does not have very many advantages over a Spit 9.
- oldman
Proper wingman tactics count for nothing, then?
You could always pull out the superior altitude and/or superior numbers cards as well.
And if all else fails, just HO em. :D It's the greatest equalizer of all.
(or hide your tail between your legs and come whine about it on the boards if you prefer)
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I must say, the 190 A5 is uber in the AvA at the moment... I have only flown a few sorties in there (and it was great)... The trouble is that there is never anyone in there when I can usually get on to play.
In any case, once I got up in the 190 A5 (with 4 x 20mm loadout too) I was almost untouchable. Perhaps it was largely to do with the pilots involved, they weren't the greatest I've come across.... But 2 and 3 v 1 I came out on top all the time.
I couldn't tell what model Spit it was... they definitely had cannons and non-clipped wings so it had to be a Spit 5/8/9. Against two of those and a P-38 I had no real difficulty dispatching the lot of them and I'm no uber-stick.
I took 100% fuel with no DT (I absolutely LOVE the more realistic fuel burn settings, no squealing drop-tank shackle to slow me down!) and the A5 flew beautifully. I quickly realised why it was so feared when it was initially released and why Josef Priller had such success in it.
TK, we'll have to wing up if we get the chance, mate. I expect we'll be quite a handful in 190s.
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Originally posted by E25280
And if all else fails, just HO em. :D It's the greatest equalizer of all.
Generally they are hoing us first. And with the Hispano deathrays...they win.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
I must say, the 190 A5 is uber in the AvA at the moment... I have only flown a few sorties in there (and it was great)... The trouble is that there is never anyone in there when I can usually get on to play.
In any case, once I got up in the 190 A5 (with 4 x 20mm loadout too) I was almost untouchable. Perhaps it was largely to do with the pilots involved, they weren't the greatest I've come across.... But 2 and 3 v 1 I came out on top all the time.
I couldn't tell what model Spit it was... they definitely had cannons and non-clipped wings so it had to be a Spit 5/8/9. Against two of those and a P-38 I had no real difficulty dispatching the lot of them and I'm no uber-stick.
I took 100% fuel with no DT (I absolutely LOVE the more realistic fuel burn settings, no squealing drop-tank shackle to slow me down!) and the A5 flew beautifully. I quickly realised why it was so feared when it was initially released and why Josef Priller had such success in it.
TK, we'll have to wing up if we get the chance, mate. I expect we'll be quite a handful in 190s.
The trouble is, last week, even though it is great in its own environment, we had to use it for EVERYTHING, not just the things 190's are good at... upping 190's from a capped feild to turnfight Hellcats is not very advantagous to the 190. Not to the 109E either, due to its low speed and dreadful roll rate... they could just run if they did not want to fight.
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Originally posted by Motherland
The trouble is, last week, even though it is great in its own environment, we had to use it for EVERYTHING, not just the things 190's are good at... upping 190's from a capped feild to turnfight Hellcats is not very advantagous to the 190. Not to the 109E either, due to its low speed and dreadful roll rate... they could just run if they did not want to fight.
Were A6m's not available on the A bases?
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Originally posted by crockett
Were A6m's not available on the A bases?
I dont know, I don't ever fly the plane and wasnt looking for it. I fly Luftwaffe only. The A6M2, however, would have had the same problems as the 109E and 190A in being completely out classed by the Hellcat in that situation.
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What happened to the 109F and G?
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We only have the 109G2. That is the only plane that gives the spit a run for its money 1v1, but if your fighting more then one at a time your screwed.
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Originally posted by Motherland
The trouble is, last week, even though it is great in its own environment, we had to use it for EVERYTHING, not just the things 190's are good at... upping 190's from a capped feild to turnfight Hellcats is not very advantagous to the 190. Not to the 109E either, due to its low speed and dreadful roll rate... they could just run if they did not want to fight.
ANYTHING in AH is at a great disadvantage if your upping from a capped field. It's unfair to judge an aircraft that way.
When I fly for the Axis, it's been almost exclusively the 109E-4. I haven't done too badly in it, being able to turn with the spits' and Hellcats. The 109E can get it's nose up in a turn, too, which tend's to suprise some of the spit drivers.
That said, I still don't know why you guys' didn't take the F. That was a bad move on the Axis' part.
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Originally posted by Larry
We only have the 109G2. That is the only plane that gives the spit a run for its money 1v1, but if your fighting more then one at a time your screwed.
Not anymore so than the 190A-5 though TK. As a matter of fact, the G-2 is as much a BnZ plane as the 190, maybe even more so.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
That said, I still don't know why you guys' didn't take the F. That was a bad move on the Axis' part.
Says who?
We had the planes that could out turn the spits (E4, C4, and A6M). We needed something that could run it down thus the 190A5) The 109F was only about 10mph faster then the spit9 with wep. The A5 is just as fast with out wep and even faster with it. I wanted a kind of one two punch when I picked the A5. Get the A5s to run the spits down and make them turn then let the turners nail em.
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Not anymore so than the 190A-5 though TK. As a matter of fact, the G-2 is as much a BnZ plane as the 190, maybe even more so.
The 109G2 is way better then the A5 with it comes down to 1v1s vs a spit9. Its climb, turn, and speed is better the only thing the A5 does better then the G2 is roll.
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I still don't see what all the whines were about with the spit 9's.
I flew Axis last night in the 190 A5 and didn't really have much problems fighting the 190 vs spits. The only planes that really gave me any trouble were the F6F's.
If the Axis should be complaining about any Allied plane, it should be the F6F as that's the toughest plane to kill on the Allied side. Personally I look for Spits to kill. I'll say it again, if you are getting out classed by any specific aircraft then you need to rethink your strategy.
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no offense to you strafing but you fail to understand the point. you are always 5-10k above the fight and picking. with that style of game play you could achieve the same results with a goon.
get down below the fight and stay there then post the results otherwise your chest thumping is hollow.
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Originally posted by heythere
no offense to you strafing but you fail to understand the point. you are always 5-10k above the fight and picking. with that style of game play you could achieve the same results with a goon.
get down below the fight and stay there then post the results otherwise your chest thumping is hollow.
I saw you were the last poster in this topic, so I took you off my ignore list to see if you had anything worthwhile to say.. It seems you don't but I'll give you a reply anyway.
I'm going to take a wild guess and assume your game name is "storch" because no one else rides my coat tails like this, other than him. It's also quite ironic enough his last post on this board was shortly before you joined. :aok
As for where I fight, that's up to me as it's my $14.95. I fight to live not to die 5 secs after I get jumped by 5 cons whom are higher than me. I don't fly with 2 or 3 other squad mates in the AvA whom can save my butt if I get in trouble. I fight on my own and am typically out numbered.
I try not to put myself in a position that causes me to need someone else to help me. Assuming you "are" storch as I believe you are.. I almost never see you fly with out 1 or 2 other buddies.
So you can whine about my alt or how I fly, but I've killed you on a number of occasions by my self and out numbered. On the other hand, I can't think of a single time you killed me in a 1 on 1 fight with out your buddies there to help you.
It's easy to talk big about how you fight and how you do this or that, when you have two other guys there to clear your six soon as you get in trouble. Try flying on the deck by your self into a bunch of enemy cons and lets see how long you live.
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wow all that to admit that even a goon is ok for weak play. thanks for the reply. put me back on ignore please.
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Originally posted by Chapel
What happened to the 109F and G?
We never had the Freidrich, and the G was available at precious few feilds last week (mainly CV's). Now that we have Gustav's you can see how much they're being used.
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Originally posted by heythere
wow all that to admit that even a goon is ok for weak play. thanks for the reply. put me back on ignore please.
You you make sense in your own mind? Because you sure don't make any sense here..
:rofl
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Originally posted by crockett
You you make sense in your own mind? Because you sure don't make any sense here..
:rofl
little wonder
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I don't fly with 2 or 3 other squad mates in the AvA whom can save my butt if I get in trouble. I fight on my own and am typically out numbered.
and safety in numbers is a problem because why????.............
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Originally posted by captain1ma
and safety in numbers is a problem because why????.............
It's simple.. don't whine about someone flying by themselves having a little alt, if in turn you have to have squad mates around to save your butt if you get in trouble.
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(http://80thfs.homestead.com/motivator2474733.jpg)
NUFF SAID^
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Here, I fixed it :aok
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/rattfink31/SpitIXmotivational.jpg)
:p
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Well stated ratt...
Im suprised Skuzzy or anyone else has allowed that other one to be put up. Ive seen not as bad words used and the post was closed within min of being posted....
:confused:
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(http://ahjg11.webs.com/bgrn806l.jpg)
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Originally posted by RATTFINK
Here, I fixed it :aok
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u7/rattfink31/SpitIXmotivational.jpg)
:p
To bad thats a XIV :D
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Originally posted by Stampf
(http://ahjg11.webs.com/bgrn806l.jpg)
LMFAO :rofl :aok
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
Well stated ratt...
Im suprised Skuzzy or anyone else has allowed that other one to be put up. Ive seen not as bad words used and the post was closed within min of being posted....
:confused:
Because that was just plain funny! :aok
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
Well stated ratt...
Im suprised Skuzzy or anyone else has allowed that other one to be put up. Ive seen not as bad words used and the post was closed within min of being posted....
:confused:
I dont see any bad words in that pic.