Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ongurth on February 01, 2008, 11:48:37 AM
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Check the home page it you haven't already.
The obvious difference is the lack of gun pods, having four wing mounted .30 cals instead. So we get less range (and power) on the guns for less drag and greater sustained turning ability. Sounds like a fair trade to me.
Plus it has a Blue and White star instead of a Red one on it. That's why I'm going to like it more than the Q. What can I say, I'm a hopeless patriot. :D
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Looks great, but what's with the 30cal muzzle flash texture?
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"Subject due to change" probably just a error in how its being renderd.
Welp we got a D & Q..wounder whats next.
I hope this is a plane that has at least 3-4 version of itself, that way it can hold early & MABY early late war (late 44)*.
God lets hope.
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next you get boobies
(was too racey for p39d default skin so it will be a player add on :D )
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/p38fester/p39copy.jpg)
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:O
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did they have fake tits in the 40s?
:aok
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awww man....
I was hoping for the P-39N "White 100"..
phooey!
:D
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Thats my thought too, i hope it dose get more than three versions.
Early american (40-41).."early british (41-42)" mid american/russian(43), late mid (44) "russian/who ever else".
One could hope.
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I'm thinking along with the P39D gun pack of 1 37mm 2 .50cals and 4 .30cals that we may get the P39D-1's gun pack of 20mm's any chance that may be a gun pack option?
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(http://www1.hitechcreations.com/news/images/p39d/p39d4.jpg)
Isn't that George Welch's P-39D with the 8th FG?
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I don't see the P-39D on the home page.
How badly could the gun pods effect performance anyway.
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Originally posted by Nimrod45
I don't see the P-39D on the home page.
How badly could the gun pods effect performance anyway.
Have you flown the 109 with gun pods
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P-400 with the hub 20mm would be a good option.
Aw, come on Fester, it's history, not obscene. ;)
But I know what skin I'LL be flying when it comes out if I ever take the 39D for a ride. :D
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Originally posted by Treize69
(http://www1.hitechcreations.com/news/images/p39d/p39d4.jpg)
Isn't that George Welch's P-39D with the 8th FG?
yep thats it.
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Sexy as usual Fester. :aok
And the skins not bad either.... :rolleyes:
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Wow, I feel like getting both the Q and the D was more than I coulda asked for...Wtg Dev. team! :aok
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Originally posted by Citabria
next you get boobies
(was too racey for p39d default skin so it will be a player add on :D )
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/p38fester/p39copy.jpg)
One of my all time favorite skins.
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Originally posted by Saxman
P-400 with the hub 20mm would be a good option.
Aw, come on Fester, it's history, not obscene. ;)
But I know what skin I'LL be flying when it comes out if I ever take the 39D for a ride. :D
i would like to see that as well, would be a better turner with the 20mm.
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Ah, the P-39D. The Predreadnaught of WWII fighters.
And is it just me, or do some of those shots show a 20mm cannon and some a 37mm?
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Originally posted by Treize69
(http://www1.hitechcreations.com/news/images/p39d/p39d4.jpg)
Isn't that George Welch's P-39D with the 8th FG?
That sure is Welch's P-39... If Fester wasn't so homely, I'd kiss 'em.....
Thanks much Fester.
My regards,
Widewing
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it says on wikipedia that their was a P39D-1 that also had the 20mm insted of the 37mm.
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Originally posted by Treize69
(http://www1.hitechcreations.com/news/images/p39d/p39d4.jpg)
That looks like a 20mm cannon to me.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Ah, the P-39D. The Predreadnaught of WWII fighters.
And is it just me, or do some of those shots show a 20mm cannon and some a 37mm?
Both are depicted in the screen shots. Welch's first P-39D-1 was delivered with the Hispano from the factory. Welch preferred the 20mm. On December 7 1942, one year to the day since he shot down four at Pearl Harbor, he shot down a Zero and two Vals. In the process, expending just 16 rounds of 20mm and 78 rounds of .50 cal. That guy was a dead shot.
My regards,
Widewing
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Sweet! A 20mm cannon! One more reason to take the D over the other.
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the D is a 37mm the D-1 is a 20mm.
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What is the difference between the D and the Q besides armament.
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Kraznaya zvesda ili cinii zvesda.
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Originally posted by Nimrod45
What is the difference between the D and the Q besides armament.
About 300 hp.
My regards,
Widewing
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Its a P-39D-1 with the 20mm Hispano. :aok I could see having the nose armament as optional, so you could have a D with the 37mm.
Awesome, even with two versions (D and Q) thats enough for almost all the SEA requirements. If we get more thats gravy.
For info: The P-39D was a 1942 a/c, the P-39Q was a mid 1943 a/c (and used untill 1945), so, there isn't much of a gap.
The VVS P-39Ns, often had the .30 cal wing guns removed, so its very close to a P-39Q in Russian service anyways.
The P-39N would be my 3rd choice, if they model one.
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For you old AW'ers out there, didn't Earl also fly the P-39 in the MTO? If he did, would be nice if someone could skin his plane. I know one of the P-47s in this game uses the skin from his P-47.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Our old AW flying buddy Earl's P39N "Eloise" (Named for his sister) that he flew with the 345th FS, 350th FG in the MTO from Tunisia up into Italy, finally transitioning to the P47 in August 1944.
Yep that's August 1944. P39s operated by the USAAF flying against the LW up until then.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1096612092_eloise1.jpg)
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Earl at work in his 39 "Eloise"
Sunrise patrol which he preferred to sunset ;0
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Eloise2.jpg)
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I use the love reading his AARs
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In regards to the P-39N.
...Im not sure there is any real difference for a Russian P-39N (sans wing guns) and a P-39Q.
The Russians almost always removed the P-39Ns wing .30 caliber guns, so a "Russian P-39N" can be ascertained by simply having the P-39Q with no gondolas.
P-39Q: http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/P39/p39-white67-42567.jpg
P-39N: http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/P39/p39-white22.jpg
Thoughts?
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Originally posted by Widewing
Both are depicted in the screen shots. Welch's first P-39D-1 was delivered with the Hispano from the factory. Welch preferred the 20mm. On December 7 1942, one year to the day since he shot down four at Pearl Harbor, he shot down a Zero and two Vals. In the process, expending just 16 rounds of 20mm and 78 rounds of .50 cal. That guy was a dead shot.
My regards,
Widewing
Welch also made it a habit at the slightest sign off something wrong to just bail out of the p-39. He didnt like it and wanted to move to the 38's. Wonder how many 39s he tossed.
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Originally posted by Squire
In regards to the P-39N.
...Im not sure there is any real difference for a Russian P-39N (sans wing guns) and a P-39Q.
Thoughts?
You are correct! No need for the N. But an lightweight L as the mid bird would be awesum :) with a 1710/63.
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When's the next release? Anyone............?
Can't wait to fly the beast
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Who cares, it's not a 38...:D
:aok
donkey
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Where are you guys seeing the P-39D, is all I see is the Q
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Tricycle gear on piston-engine fighters looks bloody rediculous! haha.
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Originally posted by bnasty
When's the next release? Anyone............?
Can't wait to fly the beast
2 weeks.
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My data shows the P-39L being heavier than the D or the N/Q. It had a better engine than a D, but the N/Q was lighter with at least as good of an engine.
The best varient is going to be the P-39Q with no gondos, for performance, low weight, and speed/climb.
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Didn't realize they had Breast implants in the 40's.... should have named the ride: Miss Kick Balls..... :rofl :aok
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Originally posted by Yeager
did they have fake tits in the 40s?
:aok
:rofl :rofl :rofl :lol :rofl
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Originally posted by Treize69
(http://www1.hitechcreations.com/news/images/p39d/p39d4.jpg)
Isn't that George Welch's P-39D with the 8th FG?
Just kind of a stupid question, when can we expect to get the p-39 and are we gonna get the p-39 Q first??
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Originally posted by angelsandair
Just kind of a stupid question, when can we expect to get the p-39 and are we gonna get the p-39 Q first??
When the next game update is released, we'll get both P-39s then.. Figure this month sometime.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
When the next game update is released, we'll get both P-39s then.. Figure this month sometime.
My regards,
Widewing
AWESOME!! Well i hope we get it by the next week ( by the way) cause that was my #1 waiting thing that i wanted in the game!! Thnx
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Originally posted by angelsandair
AWESOME!! Well i hope we get it by the next week ( by the way) cause that was my #1 waiting thing that i wanted in the game!! Thnx
You know, it's starting to make me wonder, now...If we're getting the P-39, which was a hot 2nd in the voting, I wonder if they are going to start working backwards' down the voting, and introducing as to the poll results? Anyone remember what made it into the final round with the B-25 and the P-39?
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Originally posted by Citabria
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/p38fester/p39copy.jpg)
mmmmmm P39[SIZE=8]DD[/SIZE]
:aok
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
You know, it's starting to make me wonder, now...If we're getting the P-39, which was a hot 2nd in the voting, I wonder if they are going to start working backwards' down the voting, and introducing as to the poll results? Anyone remember what made it into the final round with the B-25 and the P-39?
A26.
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202838
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
You know, it's starting to make me wonder, now...If we're getting the P-39, which was a hot 2nd in the voting, I wonder if they are going to start working backwards' down the voting, and introducing as to the poll results? Anyone remember what made it into the final round with the B-25 and the P-39?
I'd be very surprised if they do that.
The P-39 was unsual for a couple reasons. One, it fills a lot of gaps. Two, the voting was extrordanarily close between the B-25 and P-39. Personally, I was half expecting this to be the case.
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Im willing to bet its going to be something french, or japanese.
But honestly, id like the He111 and brewster, just to shut a few thousand player's up "who have by the way asked for these two Ac for YEARS."
:aok
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Originally posted by Airscrew
Have you flown the 109 with gun pods
p39 with the pods will really not perform that well.
maybe use it as a town killer in that set up especialy if it can have good ord packages.
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Originally posted by goober69
p39 with the pods will really not perform that well.
maybe use it as a town killer in that set up especialy if it can have good ord packages.
One, count em, one 250 or 500 lb bomb.
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or a Drop Tank.
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Originally posted by Megalodon
Welch also made it a habit at the slightest sign off something wrong to just bail out of the p-39. He didnt like it and wanted to move to the 38's. Wonder how many 39s he tossed.
George Welch was unhappy with the P-39's limited range. Japanese aircraft had been pulled back beyond the range of the P-39s and P-40s. Across the field from the 36th FS was the 80th FS, flying P-38s. They were getting all of the Group's (8th FG) kills because they had the range to take the fight to the Japanese.
Invariably, when Japanese land based aircraft arrived, the P-39s were unable to climb high enough, fast enough to engage. That's the legacy of single speed, single stage supercharging. The AVG suffered this same problem in Burma and China. Even when the P-39s were able to wobble up to 25,000 feet, they were so far down the backside of their power curve that their performance was simply miserable.
Welch's 3 kills in the P-39 came against Japanese Naval aircraft, and for a change, the 36th's P-39s had the altitude advantage and were at an altitude where their P-39s were substantially faster than the Zero escorts.
Aside from this one engagement, Welch spent much of his time flying escort to transports, flying long boring patrols and attacking ground targets in support of Army ground forces in New Guinea.
Growing bored and disillusioned, Welch asked the CO of the 36th when they might get P-38s. The answer was "I suppose when they run out of serviceable P-39s". Welch walked over to the HQ hut and presented the same question to the 8th's CO. He received the same answer. George discussed this response with several of his squadron pals, and they made a pact to dispose of any P-39 that demonstrated a mechanical failure.
No one knows for sure how many P-39s were dumped in Papua Gulf, but Welch is believed to have left two P-39s rotting on the bottom. Word trickled back to the 36th's CO that Welch was the ring leader of the P-39 revolt. Realizing that Welch had way too much political pull with USAAF leadership to discipline him over what really boiled down to his zeal to fight; it was decided that the lesser of the two evils was to transfer him across the airfield to the 80th FS.
*Welch was fortunate that he received his transfer. When the 36th FS was reequipped, it didn't receive P-38s. Instead, the squadron was equipped with the P-47D-3 and -5. The Jug had greater range than the Airacobra, but still lacked the range to take the fight to the Japanese airfields.
Welch did not miss the opportunity, shooting down 9 more Japanese (in just 3 engagements), with squadron mates insisting that he shot down at least 5 more that he never bothered to put in claims for. After being promoted, he was transferred to the 8th HQ staff, where he continued to fly combat missions. Welch was removed from combat due to a dangerous case of malaria. After he had recovered, doctors decided that the haggard and worn-out pilot had seen enough combat and Welch was transferred back to the States. He had flown 348 combat missions, logging nearly 800 hours of combat zone flight time.
As it turned out, Welch was not very popular with the pilots of the 80th FS. Some felt that he was a rich kid who pulled strings to get into the unit. (It was widely believed that Welch was heir to the Welch's Grape Juice fortune, but George was the son of chemist who worked for Du Pont). Other's didn't care for his general disregard of regulations that Welch felt were meaningless or unimportant. Still others thought Welch to be reckless, bordering on suicidal. Certainly a few pilots resented Welch's fame and the fact that Hap Arnold would insist on getting monthly reports on George from the group CO.
Nonetheless, Welch's combat leadership and skills could not be ignored. Everyone who flew with Welch had to admit that the guy was a gifted combat pilot. He was cocky, abrasive with a single-minded aggressiveness and a bit of a loner; Welch didn't fit into the culture of the 80th very well. But, when you think of other pilots who displayed those same traits, names like Thomas McGuire and Robert Johnson come to mind.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
He was cocky, abrasive with a single-minded aggressiveness and a bit of a loner;[/B]
This seems to be the general description of many of the best fighter pilots. The same could certainly be said of Boyington (add drunk to that list). Coincidence, or are these traits indicative of the stuff needed to succeed in air combat?
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Originally posted by Citabria
next you get boobies
(was too racey for p39d default skin so it will be a player add on :D )
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/p38fester/p39copy.jpg)
Must have that skin......
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Many fighter jocks were, and are, a bit odd. Most dont have much use for regulations. I remember a big stink was made once by our foreign hosts, during my days overseas in USAF, regarding our hotshot F-4 Phantom sticks standing the airplanes on end at full throttle over the base, and other assorted maneuvers. They were told to cut it out, in no uncertain terms, and for days afterwards you couldnt breath the air around the airbase due to the F-4s doing standing climbs. Ever hear an F-4 on full AB with the engines pointed right at you?
Eventually they had to be asked...nicely. They couldnt have cared less. We invested millions into them, needed the birds for special weapons delivery, and the sticks all knew they were to old to be rotated into the coming 15s and 16s.
Fighter jocks are a different breed. At least they were. I had a friend who flew Jugs in the ET and boy the stories he told me about these guys. But boy they could fly those jugs. Also many had problems after the war. With booze and trying to live life off the razors edge.
My guess is George was stuck with a fame he really didn't want. And it must have been frustrating to be assigned to aircraft not capable for the mission.
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Most career military types of any stripe are a little off (ever hung out with Marines, or Cavalrymen?), but pilots have always been a step up in the uniqueness department, and fighter pilots a level above the rest (with combat chopper pilots at almost the same level).
Must be something about the desire to wrangle a several ton hunk of steel and aluminum at several hundred miles an hour and G levels that most people can't handle while people are shooting at you on a daily basis, coupled with the mental ability to compartmentalise it down from "I'm killing people" to "I'm destroying machines".
The let down after getting out of several years of combat is always hard for anyone to cope with, but guys of that stripe seem to be one of two classes- either they take off their uniform and never look back (like John Godfrey, who never touched the controls of an aircraft after getting out of the Army), and the guys who spend the rest of their lives looking for the rush and danger they used to get in the service- or drowning their depression for the rest of their lives, which is basically just a different way of coping with the same thing.
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are we all sure the squeakers will be able to handle boobies?
what do those do etc ???
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Originally posted by Bruv119
are we all sure the squeakers will be able to handle boobies?
what do those do etc ???
:lol
The only pair the squeakies have seen are their mothers' saggy titties.
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Originally posted by Bruv119
are we all sure the squeakers will be able to handle boobies?
what do those do etc ???
Originally posted by Stang
:lol
The only pair the squeakies have seen are their mothers' saggy titties.
If I was the moderator of these boards all hell would break loose.
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If ever* that skin is released, one of two things will happen.
1:Unless its the art on the plane your flying, you wont hardly ever get close enough to your *target* to go "boobies!?" while your tryin' to get the kill.If you do, your time is probably better spent using the 15 bucks on porn vs. straining your neck to try to get a tit shot in a flight sim.
2:IF ANYTHING, a night gown of some sort will be put on, just so reply's like some here & mine, will come to a end.
Fighter pilots lived and died, and therefor could "almost" put whatever art they wanted on the bird, granted the Co's and probably the general culture of the people around the area granted it acceptable.."imagine a bunch of shirtless 1940's african women's in north africa being offended by a naked woman on a flying machine, vs. a 1940's british victorian woman, and how she might feal about it.
Sorry dint mean to offend anyone or anything, just turning the coin to the side so everyone can see bolth views.
"shrugs"
*Throws two cents, and walks away*
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
If ever* that skin is released, one of two things will happen.
1:Unless its the art on the plane your flying, you wont hardly ever get close enough to your *target* to go "boobies!?" while your tryin' to get the kill.If you do, your time is probably better spent using the 15 bucks on porn vs. straining your neck to try to get a tit shot in a flight sim.
2:IF ANYTHING, a night gown of some sort will be put on, just so reply's like some here & mine, will come to a end.
Night gown? LOL
These are historic nose art. There's no night gowns!
Moreover, it's not like we don't have undressed ladies on other aircraft...
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/p47n/skin2.jpg)
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/b24j/skin11.jpg)
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/b24j/skin1.jpg)
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/b17g/skin8.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
a 1940's british victorian woman, and how she might feal about it.
no worries, most of them are dead and few remaining don't play AH.
Well, now that I think of, Taurus45's aunt was 90 something, when she stole his account info and blasted through the air. Luckily all of her attention was dedicated to joystick and none to skin art.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Many fighter jocks were, and are, a bit odd. Most dont have much use for regulations. I remember a big stink was made once by our foreign hosts, during my days overseas in USAF, regarding our hotshot F-4 Phantom sticks standing the airplanes on end at full throttle over the base, and other assorted maneuvers. They were told to cut it out, in no uncertain terms, and for days afterwards you couldnt breath the air around the airbase due to the F-4s doing standing climbs. Ever hear an F-4 on full AB with the engines pointed right at you?
Eventually they had to be asked...nicely. They couldnt have cared less. We invested millions into them, needed the birds for special weapons delivery, and the sticks all knew they were to old to be rotated into the coming 15s and 16s.
Fighter jocks are a different breed. At least they were. I had a friend who flew Jugs in the ET and boy the stories he told me about these guys. But boy they could fly those jugs. Also many had problems after the war. With booze and trying to live life off the razors edge.
My guess is George was stuck with a fame he really didn't want. And it must have been frustrating to be assigned to aircraft not capable for the mission.
This is a great, and very, very accurate post. :aok
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
no worries, most of them are dead and few remaining don't play AH.
Well, now that I think of, Taurus45's aunt was 90 something, when she stole his account info and blasted through the air. Luckily all of her attention was dedicated to joystick and none to skin art.
Aah, good ol' AuntBea. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Widewing
As it turned out, Welch was not very popular with the pilots of the 80th FS. Some felt that he was a rich kid who pulled strings to get into the unit. (It was widely believed that Welch was heir to the Welch's Grape Juice fortune, but George was the son of chemist who worked for Du Pont). Other's didn't care for his general disregard of regulations that Welch felt were meaningless or unimportant. Still others thought Welch to be reckless, bordering on suicidal. Certainly a few pilots resented Welch's fame and the fact that Hap Arnold would insist on getting monthly reports on George from the group CO.
Nonetheless, Welch's combat leadership and skills could not be ignored. Everyone who flew with Welch had to admit that the guy was a gifted combat pilot. He was cocky, abrasive with a single-minded aggressiveness and a bit of a loner; Welch didn't fit into the culture of the 80th very well. But, when you think of other pilots who displayed those same traits, names like Thomas McGuire and Robert Johnson come to mind.
My regards,
Widewing
Apparently he and 80th CO Porky Cragg didn't get along too well. Something to do with Welch's Dog doing something to Cragg's.
Apparently some other 80th pilots 'took care' of Welch's dog while he was away and got it so drunk it's legs quit working.
Seems like that early war 5th AF fighter pilot bunch was an interesting bunch, much removed in style from the Hollywood versions or the 8th AF bunch for that matter :)
Of course lots of those guys ended up in the ETO later such as George Preddy who started with the 7th FS in P40s, John Landers who was also 7th in P40s and Sid Woods who was 9th FS in 38s.
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They sent the second stringers to England to make room for the starting lineup of oddballs. :lol
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Originally posted by Widewing
George Welch was unhappy with the P-39's limited range. Japanese aircraft had been pulled back beyond the range of the P-39s and P-40s. Across the field from the 36th FS was the 80th FS, flying P-38s. They were getting all of the Group's (8th FG) kills because they had the range to take the fight to the Japanese.
Invariably, when Japanese land based aircraft arrived, the P-39s were unable to climb high enough, fast enough to engage. That's the legacy of single speed, single stage supercharging. The AVG suffered this same problem in Burma and China. Even when the P-39s were able to wobble up to 25,000 feet, they were so far down the backside of their power curve that their performance was simply miserable.
Welch's 3 kills in the P-39 came against Japanese Naval aircraft, and for a change, the 36th's P-39s had the altitude advantage and were at an altitude where their P-39s were substantially faster than the Zero escorts.
Aside from this one engagement, Welch spent much of his time flying escort to transports, flying long boring patrols and attacking ground targets in support of Army ground forces in New Guinea.
Growing bored and disillusioned, Welch asked the CO of the 36th when they might get P-38s. The answer was "I suppose when they run out of serviceable P-39s". Welch walked over to the HQ hut and presented the same question to the 8th's CO. He received the same answer. George discussed this response with several of his squadron pals, and they made a pact to dispose of any P-39 that demonstrated a mechanical failure.
No one knows for sure how many P-39s were dumped in Papua Gulf, but Welch is believed to have left two P-39s rotting on the bottom. Word trickled back to the 36th's CO that Welch was the ring leader of the P-39 revolt. Realizing that Welch had way too much political pull with USAAF leadership to discipline him over what really boiled down to his zeal to fight; it was decided that the lesser of the two evils was to transfer him across the airfield to the 80th FS.
*Welch was fortunate that he received his transfer. When the 36th FS was reequipped, it didn't receive P-38s. Instead, the squadron was equipped with the P-47D-3 and -5. The Jug had greater range than the Airacobra, but still lacked the range to take the fight to the Japanese airfields.
Welch did not miss the opportunity, shooting down 9 more Japanese (in just 3 engagements), with squadron mates insisting that he shot down at least 5 more that he never bothered to put in claims for. After being promoted, he was transferred to the 8th HQ staff, where he continued to fly combat missions. Welch was removed from combat due to a dangerous case of malaria. After he had recovered, doctors decided that the haggard and worn-out pilot had seen enough combat and Welch was transferred back to the States. He had flown 348 combat missions, logging nearly 800 hours of combat zone flight time.
As it turned out, Welch was not very popular with the pilots of the 80th FS. Some felt that he was a rich kid who pulled strings to get into the unit. (It was widely believed that Welch was heir to the Welch's Grape Juice fortune, but George was the son of chemist who worked for Du Pont). Other's didn't care for his general disregard of regulations that Welch felt were meaningless or unimportant. Still others thought Welch to be reckless, bordering on suicidal. Certainly a few pilots resented Welch's fame and the fact that Hap Arnold would insist on getting monthly reports on George from the group CO.
Nonetheless, Welch's combat leadership and skills could not be ignored. Everyone who flew with Welch had to admit that the guy was a gifted combat pilot. He was cocky, abrasive with a single-minded aggressiveness and a bit of a loner; Welch didn't fit into the culture of the 80th very well. But, when you think of other pilots who displayed those same traits, names like Thomas McGuire and Robert Johnson come to mind.
My regards,
Widewing
After December 7th, Welch continued to fly combat patrols around Oahu. However, the news of his four confirmed victories had been released to the press and soon he was ordered back to the States. The country was badly in need of a hero, and Welch fit the bill. After several hectic months of giving War Bond speeches across America, Welch finally received orders to return to the Pacific. George reported to the 36th Fighter Squadron of the 8th Fighter Group in New Guinea. The good news was that this squadron had been seeing combat. The bad news was that is was flying the hopeless Bell P-39 Airacobra. Welch found himself flying mostly ground support missions, this being largely due to the P-39’s poor combat performance and its limited range. Certainly, the 37mm cannon was useful against ground targets, but the Bell was at a serious disadvantage when facing Japanese fighters. This was largely the fault of it being fitted with an Allison engine that lacked a two speed, two stage supercharger. This meant that performance dropped off quickly above 12,000 ft. At the altitudes necessary to engage the Japanese bombers and fighters, the P-39 was an absolute dog. Welch did not view the lack of performance at altitude as the primary sin of the P-39. What truly turned Welch against the Airacobra was its limited combat radius. With the majority of air to air engagements being fought beyond the reach of the Bell, opportunities to shoot down more Japanese were nearly nonexistant. Naturally Welch noted that there were squadrons on his base that were flying the P-38G Lightning. Now, here was a fighter! Fast, long ranging and equally important, its twin Allison engines were turbosupercharged. This allowed the P-38 to climb higher and faster than the P-39. It was everything Welch wanted and the performance of the P-38 was reflected in the tally of Japanese aircraft being shot down. George wanted the Lightning, he wanted it badly and cornered his group commander and inquired as to when 36th could expect to get the P-38. The answer was: “When we run out of P-39s.” That was all Welch and the pilots of 36th needed to hear. Virtually any problem encountered in flight (real or imaginary) resulted in a bailout from that day forward. The operational loss rate climbed dramatically. Welch found himself in hot water with the Group commander, who pointed out that George had been very successful in the P-39. Hadn’t he shot down two Vals and a Zero on the one-year anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack? That didn’t deter Welch, who knew he could have splashed a hell of a lot more if he’d been flying the Lightning. Finally, the Brass gave into Welch’s repeated requests and transferred him across the field to 80th Fighter Squadron. At last, George had his P-38, and he made the most of it.
(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/p-38h-8fg.JPG)
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Welch1.html
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Originally posted by Treize69
Most career military types of any stripe are a little off (ever hung out with Marines, or Cavalrymen?), but pilots have always been a step up in the uniqueness department, and fighter pilots a level above the rest (with combat chopper pilots at almost the same level).
LOL, tell me about it. My Dad was a Marine Helicopter pilot, then transitioned to A-4 Skyhawks.
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Originally posted by Grits
LOL, tell me about it. My Dad was a Marine Helicopter pilot, then transitioned to A-4 Skyhawks.
My Dads quite fond of relating a story from when he was in the Air Force in the '70s. Riding as a passenger in a Huey through the Rockies (he was a survival systems instructor at Great Falls, Montana), the pilot was chasing a herd of elk through a valley, laughing maniacally and saying "The best thing is, they aint shooting back!!".
Apparently he'd done a tour or two as a SAR pilot in 'Nam. 'Nuff said.
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Originally posted by Megalodon
After December 7th, Welch continued to fly combat patrols around Oahu. However, the news of his four confirmed victories had been released to the press and soon he was ordered back to the States. The country was badly in need of a hero, and Welch fit the bill. After several hectic months of giving War Bond speeches across America, Welch finally received orders to return to the Pacific. George reported to the 36th Fighter Squadron of the 8th Fighter Group in New Guinea. The good news was that this squadron had been seeing combat. The bad news was that is was flying the hopeless Bell P-39 Airacobra. Welch found himself flying mostly ground support missions, this being largely due to the P-39’s poor combat performance and its limited range. Certainly, the 37mm cannon was useful against ground targets, but the Bell was at a serious disadvantage when facing Japanese fighters. This was largely the fault of it being fitted with an Allison engine that lacked a two speed, two stage supercharger. This meant that performance dropped off quickly above 12,000 ft. At the altitudes necessary to engage the Japanese bombers and fighters, the P-39 was an absolute dog. Welch did not view the lack of performance at altitude as the primary sin of the P-39. What truly turned Welch against the Airacobra was its limited combat radius. With the majority of air to air engagements being fought beyond the reach of the Bell, opportunities to shoot down more Japanese were nearly nonexistant. Naturally Welch noted that there were squadrons on his base that were flying the P-38G Lightning. Now, here was a fighter! Fast, long ranging and equally important, its twin Allison engines were turbosupercharged. This allowed the P-38 to climb higher and faster than the P-39. It was everything Welch wanted and the performance of the P-38 was reflected in the tally of Japanese aircraft being shot down. George wanted the Lightning, he wanted it badly and cornered his group commander and inquired as to when 36th could expect to get the P-38. The answer was: “When we run out of P-39s.” That was all Welch and the pilots of 36th needed to hear. Virtually any problem encountered in flight (real or imaginary) resulted in a bailout from that day forward. The operational loss rate climbed dramatically. Welch found himself in hot water with the Group commander, who pointed out that George had been very successful in the P-39. Hadn’t he shot down two Vals and a Zero on the one-year anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack? That didn’t deter Welch, who knew he could have splashed a hell of a lot more if he’d been flying the Lightning. Finally, the Brass gave into Welch’s repeated requests and transferred him across the field to 80th Fighter Squadron. At last, George had his P-38, and he made the most of it.
(http://home.att.net/~historyzone/p-38h-8fg.JPG)
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Welch1.html
That's an outstanding article.. I should know. I wrote it. :)
My regards,
Widewing
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Woots P-38H!
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Originally posted by Widewing
That's an outstanding article.. I should know. I wrote it. :)
My regards,
Widewing
Pwn
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Totally off topic, but I thought the 348th FG was the only Group to fly the P-47 in the PTO.
Any more info Widewing?
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One last comment that I meant to add:
Widewing's and Rich46Yo's stories notwithstanding, I think the attitude toward prima donna fighter pilots may have changed in current times. Having never been a fighter pilot I can't say with any certainty, but my impression in other areas is that NATOPS (or whatever the Air Force equivalent is) rules and team players are NOT promoted.
I always get a kick out of reading these stories from WW2 where so much was left to attitude. Nowadays, that kind of stuff is definately NOT encouraged.
1Duke1 might have a different perspective though.
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Originally posted by toonces3
Totally off topic, but I thought the 348th FG was the only Group to fly the P-47 in the PTO.
Any more info Widewing?
There were many groups operating Thunderbolts against Japan. The 348th FG was the most famous. However, the 9th FS of the 49th FG flew Jugs for a while. The 36th FS of the 8th FG converted to in November of 1943. The 35th FG flew Jugs. The 1st Air Commando Group operated P-47s, as did the 58th Fighter Group. Add to that the 33rd, 80th and 81st Fighter Groups operating out of India, along with 16 RAF squadrons flying the Jug from India and Burma. From Saipan, the 508th FG and 318th FG flew P-47s. Don't forget the P-47N groups, the 413th, 414th, and 507th (the 508th later switched to the N model).
I don't know if I've covered them all, but you can see that the P-47 saw extensive service against Japan.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Apparently he and 80th CO Porky Cragg didn't get along too well. Something to do with Welch's Dog doing something to Cragg's.
Apparently some other 80th pilots 'took care' of Welch's dog while he was away and got it so drunk it's legs quit working.
Seems like that early war 5th AF fighter pilot bunch was an interesting bunch, much removed in style from the Hollywood versions or the 8th AF bunch for that matter :)
Of course lots of those guys ended up in the ETO later such as George Preddy who started with the 7th FS in P40s, John Landers who was also 7th in P40s and Sid Woods who was 9th FS in 38s.
(http://www.geocities.com/jaywelch70/craggwelchwewak3sept1943.jpg)
Cragg and Welch at wewak 9/3/43 :cool:
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Widewing
Thanks for you dedication,always a pleasure sir.
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Originally posted by Scooter
Widewing
Thanks for you dedication,always a pleasure sir.
Sorry wrong login (old ID)
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Originally posted by Scooter
Widewing
Thanks for you dedication,always a pleasure sir.
Always my pleasure. :)
My regards,
Widewing
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i swear i learn more from just reading widewings posts than anything lol
u guys are great i enjoy the company im in.