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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Softail on February 01, 2008, 03:20:26 PM

Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Softail on February 01, 2008, 03:20:26 PM
98.
 
98 - 50cals into a 110.  It flys home with an oil leak and a fuel leak.  Wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it.

Plotted all the hits....count em.  98.    A dozne in the cockpit area.  That is one tough bird.


wow.

(http://www.geocities.com/softail_rider2001/Slide1.JPG)
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Hap on February 01, 2008, 03:22:13 PM
Very cool.  How'd you do that?
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Denholm on February 01, 2008, 03:26:45 PM
He should have gone home with a pilot injury. Send the film to HTC.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Softail on February 01, 2008, 03:30:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hap
Very cool.  How'd you do that?



PowerPoint ;-)   and playback very very very slowly ;-)
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: SlapShot on February 01, 2008, 03:31:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Denholm
He should have gone home with a pilot injury. Send the film to HTC.


And how do you know he didn't have a pilot wound ?
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Treize69 on February 01, 2008, 03:33:53 PM
You can see the blood on film viewer.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Denholm on February 01, 2008, 03:34:09 PM
I don't.

But I'm quite certain with all the hits there would've been more damage then a simple oil leak. Elevators, ailerons, or rudders would've come off. Softail never mentioned if any of these parts fell off. So it's either lag or something HTC needs to take a look at.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Ghosth on February 01, 2008, 03:36:54 PM
All those .50's scattered all OVER that plane.

Put em all in one spot and it would have been a dead bird.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Softail on February 01, 2008, 03:40:02 PM
No major parts came off.   Got those little puffy smoke trails and some misc floatsam.     First pass hit it with 44 rounds....second was about 35....by then I was down to one bomber...and had to focus on a closer 190 that was comin in to finish me.  

I just found this funny as he double toothpics.   I thougt I was hitting him...but he just kept comin back!

I think I need bigger bullets. ha ha ha.

Softail
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Softail on February 01, 2008, 03:41:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Treize69
You can see the blood on film viewer.


No.  but then I never see any cockpit details of enemy fighters in viewer.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Scca on February 01, 2008, 03:43:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Softail
PowerPoint ;-)   and playback very very very slowly ;-)
He plays with his "power point" often, and very, very slowly...
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: dedalos on February 01, 2008, 03:48:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
All those .50's scattered all OVER that plane.

Put em all in one spot and it would have been a dead bird.


Nah, if you did that, they would all go through the same hole :rofl
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Denholm on February 01, 2008, 03:50:46 PM
Never been able to do that, even in a game.:confused:
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Softail on February 01, 2008, 03:51:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Scca
He plays with his "power point" often, and very, very slowly...
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl



OUCH.....from a squaddie none the less.... ha ha ha.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: scottydawg on February 01, 2008, 03:51:40 PM
I would like to see that film please.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: CAP1 on February 01, 2008, 03:57:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
All those .50's scattered all OVER that plane.

Put em all in one spot and it would have been a dead bird.


even with them scattered like that.......looks to e like that bird should never have made it home?
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Denholm on February 01, 2008, 04:01:25 PM
Thus my reason for having HTC look at the film. Either it was lag or something they need to take a look at.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Softail on February 01, 2008, 04:05:36 PM
http://www.geocities.com/acducks/98rounds_110.ahf

playback at .20... i
Title: Re: How many rounds?
Post by: Spikes on February 01, 2008, 05:06:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Softail
That is one tough bird.


(http://www.geocities.com/softail_rider2001/Slide1.JPG)


I just took 2 pings in a 110G from a P-51D and instant tower.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Denholm on February 01, 2008, 05:42:10 PM
That's cause you're a member of the WOT.:D
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Saxman on February 01, 2008, 05:51:51 PM
I disagree, Ghost. At the very least there's some good concentration midway out on the left wing. And there's a LOT of hits clustered in the cockpit area. Shoulda been a PW for sure, if not an outright PK.

Now, I'd be more interested in the range he was firing at. I've knocked down 110s in an F4U with far less hits than that.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: FireDrgn on February 01, 2008, 05:55:26 PM
It way fun watching in slow motion in the film viewer... Looks like you should have gotten a PW or PK to the 110..

I LIKE THE NOSE ART ON THE 24 BETTER THAN WATCHING 50.CALS GOING THRU 110
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: scottydawg on February 01, 2008, 07:07:57 PM
That was INSANE.

I seriously doubt the opponent in question would ever do anything like hack the game, but I call major shenanigans on that. Something was definitely wrong there.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Spikes on February 01, 2008, 10:03:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Denholm
That's cause you're a member of the WOT.:D


That would do it...:cry
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: trigger2 on February 01, 2008, 11:18:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Denholm
He should have gone home with a pilot injury. Send the film to HTC.


Depends on the angle and point of entry.
If theyre comin in from the 12 o clock position, yeah, he would but I doubt anyone would truely fly a HO with a 110 and have enough to do 97 more rounds :]
I say it's a bunch of luck, if they come in in the right spot and right angle, there's no chance of pilot wounds... I've had multiple canopy shots but no wound...

It also depends on the distance of fire, his manuvering, spread of the fire,  convergence etc...

If he's shooting from d800+ with convergence set at oh say a fairly midway d400 while he's weaving, the spreads gonna be interesting therefore the fire wouldn't be concentrated, also depends on where the hits were.
There are "strong points" and "weak points" and it seems it hit most of the "strong points" (mid wing end of elevator etc...) so I see this more as an inexperianced pilot, shooting either a VERY lucky one or a very skilled one. I think there's too much to be taken into consideration to say that "that bird shouldn't be going home" of "there should be this damage", angles of attack, distance, spread, speed, etc... too many factors...
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: WMLute on February 02, 2008, 02:09:25 AM
w/o a film there is no way of knowing what order those round hit.

the clusters could have come from 2-3 diff. burst and not all at the same time.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: scottydawg on February 02, 2008, 08:07:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by WMLute
w/o a film there is no way of knowing what order those round hit.

the clusters could have come from 2-3 diff. burst and not all at the same time.


IT's up there, Softail posted it: http://www.geocities.com/acducks/98rounds_110.ahf
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Getback on February 02, 2008, 08:53:28 AM
I think there was something wrong last night. I hit an ltv 4 times in a tiger using ap rounds before it died. Of course I didn't film it grrr! My thoughts are the internet was messed up.

I'm glad you posted this.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Squire on February 02, 2008, 09:30:44 AM
Next time don't load paintball ammo, sheesh.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Denholm on February 02, 2008, 09:43:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Getback
I think there was something wrong last night. I hit an ltv 4 times in a tiger using ap rounds before it died. Of course I didn't film it grrr! My thoughts are the internet was messed up...

That's happened to me before, nothing wrong with it.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: mussie on February 02, 2008, 11:00:59 AM
Makes me wonder if HT coded in a luck or AOG factor lol......

heheeh

HT
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: dedalos on February 02, 2008, 11:07:37 AM
OK, I am clueless on this one.  Does anyone know if you can see PW, damaged flaps, ailerons, rudder, etc?  I mean, the guy might have been 1 bullet away from exploding but would you be able to tell in the film?
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Denholm on February 02, 2008, 11:49:08 AM
In the old FV when H2H was still around, I could see a pilot wound in my opponent's plane. Everything showed, aileron damage, elevator damage, rudder damage, engine damage, radiator damage, stabilizer damage, everything...

I haven't filmed anything in the new FV, but some people have and made Screen Shots with their films. I'm pretty positive I saw parts flying off those planes.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: The Fugitive on February 02, 2008, 11:53:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Getback
I think there was something wrong last night. I hit an ltv 4 times in a tiger using ap rounds before it died. Of course I didn't film it grrr! My thoughts are the internet was messed up.

I'm glad you posted this.


AP rounds go through the target when its light armor and damages it instead of killing it. Use HE next time and one shot will kill it.

As for the 110 film, I'm wondering if he counted the hits to BOTH 110s. The first 110 took hits and dove below, a second 110 came in and took many hits and died, then the lower 110 came in again. Most of the hits looked to be outside of 600 on the enemy icon (which is 600-800 out in yardage) range, I don't see any real problem here. With 3 different guys firring on ya you were going down. With the enemy dancing outside 600 you couldn't hit hard enough fast enough to kill them all.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: BaldEagl on February 02, 2008, 12:28:14 PM
I don't think that's really abnormal.  I was in a 110 one night chasing a set of B-17's at 30K.  I came from his dead 6 (about all I could do at that alt).  He opened up at ~1K and had to have put at LEAST 50 rounds into me.  I killed all three 17's and only lost the radiator on one side.

Afterward, he said I was lit up like a Christmas tree through the whole attack and I believe him.  My plane was riddled with holes and you should have heard all the hits.

Evidently the 110 is just one tough bird to take down from the front.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Getback on February 02, 2008, 01:31:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by The Fugitive
AP rounds go through the target when its light armor and damages it instead of killing it. Use HE next time and one shot will kill it.

As for the 110 film, I'm wondering if he counted the hits to BOTH 110s. The first 110 took hits and dove below, a second 110 came in and took many hits and died, then the lower 110 came in again. Most of the hits looked to be outside of 600 on the enemy icon (which is 600-800 out in yardage) range, I don't see any real problem here. With 3 different guys firring on ya you were going down. With the enemy dancing outside 600 you couldn't hit hard enough fast enough to kill them all.


You know Fugitive, I think you are 100% correct.

BTW, I can see my bullets splat on a plane in real time.

And I once killed an LA 7 with one single 20mm shot. It hit his wing tip.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Softail on February 02, 2008, 01:37:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by The Fugitive
AP rounds go through the target when its light armor and damages it instead of killing it. Use HE next time and one shot will kill it.

As for the 110 film, I'm wondering if he counted the hits to BOTH 110s. The first 110 took hits and dove below, a second 110 came in and took many hits and died, then the lower 110 came in again. Most of the hits looked to be outside of 600 on the enemy icon (which is 600-800 out in yardage) range, I don't see any real problem here. With 3 different guys firring on ya you were going down. With the enemy dancing outside 600 you couldn't hit hard enough fast enough to kill them all.


Oh...I know living was going to be next to impossible.  But the 98 rounds all landed on the lower 110.  I didn't count the rounds hitting the direct 6 110.   Best guess...about 30 hit him.   I thought for sure his tail would fall off after the first round.  I know I always seem to loose mine somewhere in the 110 ;-)

As for distance...these guys were shooting cannon from 1K out...I had to shoot back and hope for the best.

Softail
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: FrodeMk3 on February 02, 2008, 01:37:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by The Fugitive
AP rounds go through the target when its light armor and damages it instead of killing it. Use HE next time and one shot will kill it.

As for the 110 film, I'm wondering if he counted the hits to BOTH 110s. The first 110 took hits and dove below, a second 110 came in and took many hits and died, then the lower 110 came in again. Most of the hits looked to be outside of 600 on the enemy icon (which is 600-800 out in yardage) range, I don't see any real problem here. With 3 different guys firring on ya you were going down. With the enemy dancing outside 600 you couldn't hit hard enough fast enough to kill them all.


I believe this also. I think he was confused as to which plane he was shooting when. I.E., you have to cut the actual number of impacts' down, as to find out how many were actually landed on one plane.

Also, Alot of those shots' were at 1k. B-24 guns' will score hits' at that distance, but are not necesarily effective. You notice that the 110 that tried to get close, went down. The one trying outside shots' didn't.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: WMLute on February 02, 2008, 02:27:16 PM
Ever get shot at by an nme and you hear "ting ting ting" but no "BAM" like when damage happens?

Those "ting's" show up still as hit sprites.

I know i've had buffs shooting at me and I am getting CONSTANT "tings" and not takin' any damage what so ever.  I am also sure on the buffs end he was thinking he was lighting me up good (and he wasn't).

i'm betting this is a case of many "ting's" and not many "BAM'S"

I'm sure if the WANTED to HTC can review that and tell you exactly what hit what and damged what, but i'd rather them be working CT.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: redman555 on February 02, 2008, 02:48:04 PM
50 cals r WAY underpowered in AH-2, 1 thing i dont like bout it, ive seen guncams of P-51s hitting a 109 or a 190 in the wing with like 5, and the wing just falls off



-BigBOBCH
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: moot on February 02, 2008, 03:00:31 PM
They aren't.  You just need to land them close enough together.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Squire on February 02, 2008, 06:05:48 PM
"50 cals r WAY underpowered in AH-2"

...no, they are not.

Ther are many players that blame their bad gunnery on HTC though.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Treize69 on February 02, 2008, 06:53:02 PM
If a P-51B can take out 6 B-17s in one sortie, .50s aren't underpowered.

This has been another **THUNK** Useless Fact.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Motherland on February 02, 2008, 07:06:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by redman555
50 cals r WAY underpowered in AH-2, 1 thing i dont like bout it, ive seen guncams of P-51s hitting a 109 or a 190 in the wing with like 5, and the wing just falls off



-BigBOBCH

What range do you shoot at?
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: SlapShot on February 03, 2008, 08:15:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by redman555
50 cals r WAY underpowered in AH-2, 1 thing i dont like bout it, ive seen guncams of P-51s hitting a 109 or a 190 in the wing with like 5, and the wing just falls off



-BigBOBCH


Yeah ... the 5 you saw were the tracer rounds ... what you didn't see were the other rounds between the tracer rounds hitting the target.

I almost exclusively fly .50 cal planes and I have no problem sawing targets in half.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: AWwrgwy on February 03, 2008, 12:51:57 PM
If you're looking at damage graphics on a plane as an indication of bullet hits, you also have to take into account that all "shown" damage is to the top surfaces only, irregardless of where you've been hit.

I took a B-25 in the T/A through base ack to see how many holes I could get in it.  Lots on the top, where you wouldn't expect to see them from ground fire, and none  on the underside.

So, is the graphics of damage modeled as "bullet hits here, put hole here" or "bullet hits wing, put a random hole in the wing?"


wrngway
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: mtnman on February 03, 2008, 08:00:16 PM
I personally think the graphic that was posted is misleading.  Just glancing at it, it looks like catastophic damage should have occurred.

But then you need to look at things ina different perspective.  Those are .50 cal hits, and are spread all over the place.  .50 cals are 1/2 inch diameter, and wouldn't be expected to damage a huge area, but rather poke a hole through the part it hits.  If it hits something substantial, it would do more than that, but it's not like these are cannon rounds.

What diameter are the hit sprites?  Not knowing the size specs on the 110, I would hazard a guess that they appear to be 10-12 inches across.  I would NOT expect the .50 cal round to damage the whole 10-12 inch diameter circle, but rather a little pin-salamander in the center of each sprite.

The graphic makes it appear that 4 hits in a row could cut off the wingtip.  I would really hope this isn't the case, and I'm relieved to see "proof" like this that it ISN'T enough damage.  It looks like two hits might be able to take off the entire nose!

Pilot wound?  Yea, maybe- depending on the armor (of which I have no clue) and the exact location of the pilot.

I'd be more willing to concede damage to the right elevator, or engine damage.  Then again, those ARE just 1/2" diameter holes, and nothing near the size the sprites show...

The .50's are neutered?  LOL, hardly!  Learn to get close and hit at convergence, and you'll be amazed at how effective they are.  They're my #1 choice day in and day out.  Sure, the 20mm's are nice, but I hardly feel handicapped with the .50's, and actually prefer them in many situations.  The situation you were in would actually be one of the times I'd prefer the 20mm's though, because a few scattered hits may be all you can get, and you really need them to be enough to get the job done...

MtnMan
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Saxman on February 03, 2008, 08:07:21 PM
Sawed a wing off a P-47 once with a half-second burst of .50cal at 200yds, right at my convergence range. The Ma Deuce is definitely not neutered.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: smokey23 on February 04, 2008, 08:36:37 AM
I just watched the vid, and ive been in this situation more than once softail I seen more than 20 of those hits that would have had me in the tower. a .50 round hitting an aluminum aircraft doesnt just poke a clean little 1/2 inch hole in it especially from the front. Those front hits especially around the cockpit would have killed that pilot outright not a slow bleedout and a .50 round once it hits the front of that 110 would have started a catastrophic tumble tearing out everything in its path. I see alot of excuses being posted here that dont hold water the damage model needs serious work cause its far from an accurate account of what would truly happen.

good post softail i been wanting to see if it was only my B-24 bullets that seem to have no afftect.
Title: How many rounds?
Post by: Larry on February 04, 2008, 08:58:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by smokey23
Those front hits especially around the cockpit would have killed that pilot outright not a slow bleedout and a .50 round once it hits the front of that 110 would have started a catastrophic tumble tearing out everything in its path.


God I hope youre joking.