Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: XAKL on February 05, 2008, 12:00:53 PM
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I eagerly log on because i'm thinking we're going to get new planes that will tilt the balance to the Allies and then the disappointment!
What were the choices?
Why pick Lancs and B-17???
Why pick P-51B??
We only need Lanc or B-17 not both
You should have picked Tiffy, Corsair with cannons,
P-51B is worthless in this map
that's just my opinion, but i'll make lemonade and given lemons
MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
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The choices were based off of popular opinion and consent. Most people wanted the B-17 and the P-51B. Everyone had a chance to chime in and throw out thier choices.
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Surprised B17's got the majority support when you already had Lancasters and B26's. Considering the clouds are so low on this map and the bomb sites are a pane, high alt bombers are almost a waste IMO.
I would agree you needed better cannon fighters.
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If we're going by popular consent, we might as well get ready for a Spixteen, Lala and B-24 next round.
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Originally posted by XAKL
P-51B is worthless in this map
Heh.
A P-51B flying with a Spit9 is an almost unbeatable combination. The 51 will chase down any Axis plane trying to run away, and the Spit will clobber it in the subsequent turn fight. Give credit to Chapel for an inspired choice - if you're planning to fly according to some sort of plan, that is.
- oldman
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Our halting the Axis advance last night couldn't have happened without the range of the P-51B. We were able to go from cruising speed, to max throttle and full speed in no time to engage the enemy. Without the firepower, speed, range, and pilots of the P-51s last night, we wouldn't have been able to do what we did!
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i have a question ,why is there no post about allied base captures?the axis beats their chest proudly every time they milk one ,like last night i guess they got 3 more after most everyone logged off {least after me i left at 2330est}
just wondered cause i thought we needed base captures =points=new planes ,,is this correct?
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to get points you need to capture consecutive bases. i was on until 1230est and we didnt capture any more bases because we couldnt get points for them.........
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Originally posted by 1redrum
i have a question ,why is there no post about allied base captures?the axis beats their chest proudly every time they milk one ,like last night i guess they got 3 more after most everyone logged off {least after me i left at 2330est}
just wondered cause i thought we needed base captures =points=new planes ,,is this correct?
Several reasons to this question, and they're being addressed on the Allied forum.
*wink*
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh.
A P-51B flying with a Spit9 is an almost unbeatable combination. The 51 will chase down any Axis plane trying to run away, and the Spit will clobber it in the subsequent turn fight. Give credit to Chapel for an inspired choice - if you're planning to fly according to some sort of plan, that is.
- oldman
Chapel,
Oldman makes an important and overlooked point. Granted that I have not flown every last minute in the AvA, but our figther tactics have much to be desired. We're not flying together setting picks and traps for the Axis. But, they sure are...
We need some coordinated (ACT), fighter sweeps and mission oriented wingman assignments to pick those Axis nuts apart. We should not allow them to land 9, 11, or 14 kills in one flight; that is just ridiculous. I hear a lot of whinning and complaining as they pick us apart in our scattered gaggles. We fuss when we get shot down after being jumped in a four on one. This should be unexceptable. We need you to lay down our tactical ground rules.
We know historically it was quite the opposite for the Allies. You have a tough job. So, my hat is off to you. If I don't speak for anyone else; I speak for myself. We don't need Uber planes. We need coordinated Uber tactics. Its time to breakout your best Hub Zemke or Jimmy Doolittle. Dude worry not, we will follow you or at least I will. We have the planes, lets kick the crap out of these guys.
I won't put the entire burden upon your shoulder. We as a group should know what tactics to use when you're not around. It is a personal decision for each Allied pilot to make.
For goodness sake; ask the guy that took off just before you to wing up with you. Make coordinate attacks. Fly to and from targets together. Don't spread your altitude so far apart from each other. As best as possible clear your commrades Six, Yes, especially when you don't know him. Most importantly stay together; safety in numbers!
If you just want to be the lone wolf. That is what the MA is for.
You guys are great at taking bases. A large majority of the Allied pilots are really good sticks as well. Now, you guys that are not and you know who you are. Wing up with some of the guys that can teach you some ACM.
"Spring Chicken to ****ehawk in one easy lesson".
Yes, I know that the aircraft have already changed, but the 190A-5 should not have kicked that much but last month.
Allied pilots lets stick together;
Gentlemen, I am not trying to lead this. I am simply making an observation.
MHO
(http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/airplanepictures_1986_2527636.jpg)
Cheers:confused:
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You know the Allies have their own forum dont you?
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Originally posted by Chapel
The choices were based off of popular opinion and consent. Most people wanted the B-17 and the P-51B. Everyone had a chance to chime in and throw out thier choices.
Chapel
You as a Commander think about this. You have to think beyond popular opinion and consent. You listen to what your subordinates suggest, but then you have to make your own decision, not based on popular opinion or consent but what you feel is the right thing to do. Just think about the situation in Iraq. Again I will support your decision. I was hoping for a more intuitive answer.
Oldman, whom I respect dearly, suggests that P-51B is effective in chasing down a faster Axis plane and put up a good fight, but he is way off. The point of winning the war is to capture bases not dogfight. We need fighters which can destroy towns as well as dogfight, and the only way to achieve this effectively is to employ Cannon firing fighters.
I do not doubt that P-51B is an effective fighter, especially in long range mission, but is worthless in destroying bases and towns since most bases are within one sector of each other. Didn't you think Tiffy would have been more suitable choice? or even Hurri II (maybe not Hurri II, it's too uber)
I didn't see any forums about picking the next set of planes, so as you can imagine my surprise. However I'll close by saying that I will support your command decision.
MUGADAI OF THE MUNGADAI WARRIORS.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh.
A P-51B flying with a Spit9 is an almost unbeatable combination. The 51 will chase down any Axis plane trying to run away, and the Spit will clobber it in the subsequent turn fight. Give credit to Chapel for an inspired choice - if you're planning to fly according to some sort of plan, that is.
- oldman
Exactly. And we (Axis) felt the pain last frame without the 109F in conjuction with the 190A-5. employed in exactly the same way. Choices made are leading to interesting matchups, (IMHO). Having alot of fun in the AvA.
P51B is never worthless, when employeed with a good turner like the Spit.
EDIT: I would add, I hear Mugadai's words loud and clear as well. No substitute for big guns in a land grabbing war. It all adds to the appeal of this new attempt in the arena.
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
Our halting the Axis advance last night couldn't have happened without the range of the P-51B. We were able to go from cruising speed, to max throttle and full speed in no time to engage the enemy. Without the firepower, speed, range, and pilots of the P-51s last night, we wouldn't have been able to do what we did!
I was on last night (Monday) from 1930 to 2200, and I don't recall any advances made by Allies. What do recall is that Allies had superior # than Axis, but Allies did not capture any fields. I saw bunch of Allies flying Lancs and providing long range escort by P-51Bs, but no base were ever captured. I even brought a goon to what I thought should be ready, because a lot of bombs were dropped in the airfield, but none were dropped in the town. Subsequently, I lost my goon.
So are we talking about the same time??
MUGADAI OF THE MUNGADAI WARRIORS
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Mossi, P47, P51, F6F.
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Originally posted by XAKL
I was on last night (Monday) from 1930 to 2200, and I don't recall any advances made by Allies. What do recall is that Allies had superior # than Axis, but Allies did not capture any fields. I saw bunch of Allies flying Lancs and providing long range escort by P-51Bs, but no base were ever captured. I even brought a goon to what I thought should be ready, because a lot of bombs were dropped in the airfield, but none were dropped in the town. Subsequently, I lost my goon.
So are we talking about the same time??
MUGADAI OF THE MUNGADAI WARRIORS
You are right sir. That would be the exact missions i am talking about. Yes, we did not capture any fields that night, however by taking down the fighter hangers, we did stop the axis advance. Had we not taken those hangers down at those bases, we would have lost a lot more land.
We might have had numbers, but us "VF-31" was spending our first night in AvA. We were unaware of rules and information on how the AvA is run. We did not know the hardness, which airfields held which planes, number of troops to take a bases and what not.
Tonight we did, and were successful in taking 3 enemy bases.
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We have the mighty Hellcat, I didn't even check if there were other options:aok
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Originally posted by XAKL
I was on last night (Monday) from 1930 to 2200, and I don't recall any advances made by Allies.
Silly allies, Blitzkrieg is for Germans. :)
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^^^:rofl ,now back to the sheep!:noid
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Although I'm more of an occasionaly visitor to AvA, I do have some advice for those complaining.
First, be thankful that the current plane selections have shaken you out of your routine. Over the long haul, doing the same thing the same way gets old -- and dealing with these challenges will add to your enjoyment in the long run.
Second, and importantly, remember that a basic principle of combat is this: CAPABILITIES DICTATE TACTICS. If you try to use the same tactics all the time, you're turning the priniple on its head...and you will get frustrated. For movie fans, think of Col Chamberlain at Little Round Top -- out of ammo, almost out of men, unable to retreat, unable to hold against another Confederate charge. His genius was in recognizing that his only option was to charge himself, before the enemy, and break up their attack before it was launched. His insight won him the Congressional Medal of Honor, BTW.
So in this round you have great bombers, effective long range escorts, and absolutely excellent energy fighting capabilities. With those tools available, you need to change your tactics to take advantage of your strengths. If you insist on strafing down towns (or HO attacks) with 4x50s, things will not go well for you.
Used right, you have tools that the Axis will struggle to match. Asking for cannons every time is mindless -- enjoy the differences, and the game will be even better for you!
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Originally posted by Simaril
First, be thankful that the current plane selections have shaken you out of your routine. Over the long haul, doing the same thing the same way gets old -- and dealing with these challenges will add to your enjoyment in the long run.
I agree wholeheartedly. When I faced the Spit9 with the 190-A5...I was immediately frustrated. I had driven the 109 so exclusively that I had forgotten how to fly the 190. Needless to say, with some guidance from some veteran 190 sticks I finally grew to love the 190-A5. I'm not, nor have I ever claimed to be, an ace..but I can generally put up a worthwhile fight.
It was hard, it took awhile to grasp, but in the end it left me with a slightly better understanding of how it must have been. After all, in the war you were given what you were given...
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I understand all the concerns in chosing planes, and as such accept all responsibility as for those chosen. I know that the ultimate decision was up to me, and I chose as I did for various reasons.
1) I had hoped that the B-17 would be used to a more devestating effect than it has been. Getting to high alt seems to be a deterant, and as such is showing why the Ju-88 is dominating in the "Heavy Divebomber" role.
2) I chose the P-51B purely for it's ability to turn somewhat better than the P-47, yet maintain speed. As well as being quite long range, and being able to carry a bomb payload of some signifigance. While at limited fields, it's reach could be felt from virtually anywhere stationed.
3) Fighters with cannons - well here's where I defered on the opinion of the allies who gave one. I haven't flown the F4U series much, nor the Tiffy. If I was aware of how devestating the cannon were, I'd have been more likely to chose. I also felt that the mossie would be adequate in it's use as an effective dive bomber, which a GOOD deal of cannon to boot.
However, if pilots aren't going to fly the planes, the way they were built to be flown, I can not accept responsibility for that. I also have a feeling that no matter which planes I chose, the other would have been requested. If I'd have taken the Hurri II, people would complain about lack of speed. If I'd have chosen the F4U, Rear view would be an issue, and if I'd have taken the tiffy, well surely durability would be mentioned.
Bottom line is, no matter which choices I made, some would be happy, some would not. Either way, they're choices I can not change, and can only learn from.
We'll work with what we have. and win/lose it's been an awesome experience!
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Originally posted by swareiam
If you just want to be the lone wolf. That is what the MA is for.
:lol
Funny, I don't get many complaints about how I play.
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Chapel I had the same thing happen when I picked the 190. The decision is yours if anyone wants to whine about what A/C you have I would like to say this. Why didnt I see you steping forward when they were asking for COs?
I think the B17 would be a great pick if people would use them in formations to knock out hangers/town. P51B on the other hand is only good if it is at 20kish escorting the bombers. I does have 2k of bombs and rockets and is about 20mph faster then the jug but it can not out turn it. I dont know what your third pick was. Iv heard people saying they saw a sherman others say P51Ds.
Now to this F4UC. I hard what none of our perked planes can be added untill the last week that is why you guys havent been getting swarmed by our Me262s yet.
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P-51B's can only haul 2X500lbs of ordinance.
Problem with the B-17's is the freakin bombsite is broke. This "Old" method is really cool and all, but HIGHLY inaccurate. It's pretty unsatisfying to get up for an hour and a half sortie, get to alt, and drop an entire payload and only hit 1 or 2 ack or ordinance.
My squad went to bomber training tonight, and did quite well. We came into the AvA and had high hopes of dropping fighter hangers at 2 airfields. We had taken lancs, and got em nice and high to 15K. 3 passes and we managed to hit 1 fighter hanger, 1 bomber hanger, and 1 ack, 1 ammo bunker.
The FH, Ack, and Ammo bunker were only hit cause we salvo'd half our payload on the last run. It's quite disapointing, and the reason you haven't seen many B-17's or heavy bombers.
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My tomcatters have suffered the same problem. And i know there will be jokes about how we cant hit nothing, its our fault, blah blah blah, but its a real problem. Ive been playing AH since 2001. And i used the only way before and its the "same" one now. But there are problems with it, because even i cant hit anything. And i used to climb to 30k+ in Lancs and flatten bases....
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
My tomcatters have suffered the same problem. And i know there will be jokes about how we cant hit nothing, its our fault, blah blah blah, but its a real problem. Ive been playing AH since 2001. And i used the only way before and its the "same" one now. But there are problems with it, because even i cant hit anything. And i used to climb to 30k+ in Lancs and flatten bases....
Its probably just the fact that you havent used it in forever... a bit rusty.
Bombing wasnt 'put a bomb in a pickle barrel' in WWII either. I honestly hate the current MA bombsight due to its totally unrealistic accuracy (as you said, climbing to 30k and flattening bases..)
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Originally posted by Motherland
Its probably just the fact that you havent used it in forever... a bit rusty.
Bombing wasnt 'put a bomb in a pickle barrel' in WWII either. I honestly hate the current MA bombsight due to its totally unrealistic accuracy (as you said, climbing to 30k and flattening bases..)
Oh i agree with you completely. Thats why they had 100s of bombers to bomb 1 factory. But because we cant get hundreds of bombers, it would be nice to have the more accurate bomb site. AH overall isnt an accurate WWII sim. If it was, an A6M2 wouldn't be able to catch a P-51D in a dive from 15k, but they do, at times! lol
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For those who say there are problems with the bomb site or its broke you are wrong. Its not the bombsite settings its you. You are used to the MAs bombsite, but there is nothing wrong with the one we have. The first two weeks were a problem because the small map plus the fog range made it really hard to line up on target. So you would have to turn a bit and didnt have enough time to get speed right to hit. With the italy and now the finrus map those problems are gone, and if you take your time you can hit anything. The only thing different from MA and AvA bombsite is you have to set target alt. Its not that hard to hit "esc", hold shift, then click. If you dont beleave me I want in to the AvA a bit ago and went rook, uped some b17, and took them to 10k. I then successfully took out all three vehicle hangers on a Vbase, useing eight out of the twelve five hundred pounders. I filmed it and gave step by step instructions on how to bomb in the AvA. Hope you guys learn something from it.
AvA Bombing (http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/AvA%20Bombing.zip)
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Ive used this site a couple times and it's easy to get used to. Now that Ive gotten the hang of it accurate bombing isn't too hard.
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I filmed it and gave step by step instructions on how to bomb in the AvA. Hope you guys learn something from it.
AvA Bombing
[/b]
Thanks TK.
- oldman
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Thanks, i'll have to check it out. After spending 1hr+ in a trianing clinic last night on heavy bombers, I could knock out stuff left n' right. My squad tried in the AvA and didn't hit squat.
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An unmolested Ju88 formation can easily plink 10 radars etc, and two hangers, from it's max altitude, no problem if his fuel holds out, which it won't of course.
Must be their equipment is better.:t
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I was able to take out every hanger on a small field before with Ju88s.:aok
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Originally posted by Larry
I was able to take out every hanger on a small field before with Ju88s.:aok
I concur, bombing isn't really much different in the AvA. You have to set target alt, thats essentially it...
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Originally posted by Larry
For those who say there are problems with the bomb site or its broke you are wrong. Its not the bombsite settings its you. You are used to the MAs bombsite, but there is nothing wrong with the one we have. The first two weeks were a problem because the small map plus the fog range made it really hard to line up on target. So you would have to turn a bit and didnt have enough time to get speed right to hit. With the italy and now the finrus map those problems are gone, and if you take your time you can hit anything. The only thing different from MA and AvA bombsite is you have to set target alt. Its not that hard to hit "esc", hold shift, then click. If you dont beleave me I want in to the AvA a bit ago and went rook, uped some b17, and took them to 10k. I then successfully took out all three vehicle hangers on a Vbase, useing eight out of the twelve five hundred pounders. I filmed it and gave step by step instructions on how to bomb in the AvA. Hope you guys learn something from it.
AvA Bombing (http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/AvA%20Bombing.zip)
Oh god I am gonna have to say it....
Thank you Truekill. LOL:p
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh.
A P-51B flying with a Spit9 is an almost unbeatable combination. The 51 will chase down any Axis plane trying to run away, and the Spit will clobber it in the subsequent turn fight. Give credit to Chapel for an inspired choice - if you're planning to fly according to some sort of plan, that is.
- oldman
AMEN! :aok
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Originally posted by XAKL
Chapel
You as a Commander think about this. You have to think beyond popular opinion and consent. You listen to what your subordinates suggest, but then you have to make your own decision, not based on popular opinion or consent but what you feel is the right thing to do. Just think about the situation in Iraq. Again I will support your decision. I was hoping for a more intuitive answer.
What the hell does this game have to do with Iraq? Did Bush not give our guys the Tiffy and he could have? If you support his decision why are you whining about his decision?:lol
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I here some of the pilots are whining because they dont have lgays and have to fly those stupid F15s.:rolleyes:
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F-15 pilots just run, reverse, and HO... You know that TK.;)