Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ghastly on February 05, 2008, 12:26:13 PM
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I've been playing a little bit in the tanks, and find that I'm absolutely abysmal. I can (eventually) zero in on a stationary target and kill it if I don't run out of ammo...
But I have yet to win any kind of a battle with anyone in another tank - while it may take me as many as 5 or 6 shots to range an opponent that's much beyond point blank, I find that my opponents usually range me in much less - if they don't hit me the first shot.
And it doesn't seem to matter how far away some guys are - the other night it seemed as though the very first shot from a tank that was both behind some trees and at least 2 miles distant hit me with his very first shot.
How do guys do that?
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For me it just comes from practice, the more you fight in a tank the better you get at estimating range.
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Practice.
It's basically the same as with shooting at long distances & off angles in a fighter. By a lot of practice you can something of a mental image. At one point you don't longer think about it but just shoot were it feels right.
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I look at how big the tank appears and I estimate what range I need to shoot to hit him. If I miss with the first shot I'll look at where my shell fell and ajust.
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One of the key things is remember what range you had it set to when you fired so you can adjust accordingly.
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Originally posted by Latrobe
I look at how big the tank appears and I estimate what range I need to shoot to hit him. If I miss with the first shot I'll look at where my shell fell and ajust.
This is also how I do it.. one tip or suggestion.. Make sure you are zoomed in good enuff to see the gv's. Just in case, its Z then the [ ] keys to max zoom.
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A Panzer is something close to 7 yards long by 3 wide.
You guys can tell at as much as a couple of miles where to aim to put a shell into a box that measures 20 by 10 feet?
I've been using the "set the mouse" technique described on the Trainers site to be able to return to my previous point of aim, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how anyone could guess the range that precisely in order to hit first shot at such distances, no matter how much you've practiced.
Or am I missing something?
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Another thing you can do (on long shots or if you're not sitting level) is use your cursor to mark where first shot hits while aimed at the gv. On the 2nd shot (assuming the first missed), move your site so that your cursor is on the gv. Usually you can pretty quickly sneak up on the correct range. One drawback is you may not get a 2nd shot...:cry
It's like Lusche says though....practice.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
A Panzer is something close to 7 yards long by 3 wide.
You guys can tell at as much as a couple of miles where to aim to put a shell into a box that measures 20 by 10 feet?
Some do.
I can say I am quite good at it, anything up to 2.4k I consider as "close range" in game, with a decent first shot hit probabilty even on moving targets. But it took me a few thousand kills to get there.
At longer ranges more rounds are needed. Two days ago I was able to killshot my tiger at 6.2k - no icon at that range led me to believe that panzer out there was an enemy. Needed a lot of ranging shots till I hit the tower, though. :D
Edit:
If someone want a laugh: This is the film. (http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?setlang=en&id=7B234F0C2) (scroll a bit down for download button)
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I dont like the mouse thing - takes too long and its distracting. although I do find myself chanting "2k4 ... 2k4 ... 2k4 ... (boom!) ... bo**ocks .... 2k2 ... 2k2 ... 2k2 ..."
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hehe Lusche,
reminds me of 1 day we attacked 44 on uterus map from 13. I was up on the ridge in a Tiger, lobbin HE down on VH. I fire a round and as it flies toward Vh i see a friendly GV motoring toward VH, yep u guessed it, he get to VH same time MY HE round does, 5K out i KS my tiger LOL.
Whels
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I dunno, some mortar teams use this sequence.
"One long, one short, hopefully the third on target."
That way if you survive, and the round travels past, your high..if the round blows up in front, you need to repeat the sequence over again.
One high, one low, one mid. "hopefully your second will hit tho."
Anyhow, mortars and arty and tank cannon are all the same.
Only the angle is realy changed, but the same rule's apply.
*throws two cents*
"Edit: it should also be noted the amount of training and such some of the people have here, would make alot of ww2 pilots gunners and tanker's jaws drop. Just the basic understanding of how things work and function, and the ability to practice it over and over and over for years."
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Originally posted by Latrobe
I look at how big the tank appears and I estimate what range I need to shoot to hit him. If I miss with the first shot I'll look at where my shell fell and ajust.
I usually do this, also I whisper to myself "Ok firing at (say) 12, miss, trying 14, hit but bounce, trying in between 14 and 16..."
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Originally posted by whels
hehe Lusche,
reminds me of 1 day we attacked 44 on uterus map from 13. I was up on the ridge in a Tiger, lobbin HE down on VH. I fire a round and as it flies toward Vh i see a friendly GV motoring toward VH, yep u guessed it, he get to VH same time MY HE round does, 5K out i KS my tiger LOL.
Whels
I believe I was there...trying to kill you and 3 other tigers in a Hurri IID/IL2.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
A Panzer is something close to 7 yards long by 3 wide.
You guys can tell at as much as a couple of miles where to aim to put a shell into a box that measures 20 by 10 feet?
Yes. Even at extreme ranges outside the range counter and at only moderate zoom I can still hit within 2-3 rounds surprisingly often.
That mouse thing isn't needed.
Practice, practice, practice.
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Practice enough and you'll soon be hitting moving tanks at long range.
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practice
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I rely heavily on the built in TLAR system.
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Greetings,
The horizontal lines in the reticle will give you a good estimate on the range.
If the Pnzr is as long as the reticle, it is at 1000ish, half as long, 2000ish, a quarter as long, 4000ish.
If the panzer is 1 and a half long as the reticle, 750ish, twice as long, 500ish.
It's a mil thing. 1 mil = 1 meter at 1000 meters. I think the horizontal reticle is 7 or 8 mils. (I am sure an LTAR can tell me exactly) If a Pnzr IV is 7 meters long, it will be 7 mils at 1000 meter range. 3.5 mils at 2000 meters, etc. . . .
Regards,
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The tank gunsight actually has a rudimentary range finder built into it. I helped a squaddie write an article way back when in AH. If I can scrounge up a copy of it someplace I'll post a link. I'll have to see if I can get ahold of him, last I checked he was in Moscow so it may take a little while. :)
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See Rule #10
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Besides practice - another thing you can do is to take ranging and see where your shots are falling. Set your zoom, take a few shots and see where they land - in relation to your cross hairs and range values. Do this at different tagrets (buildings, trees, and don't foget the SHEEP!) Then you will know how much elevation is needed when a target approches. As for leading a moving target, you just have to practice on each type of GV (since they all have different top speeds) Eventually you just develope a natural sense of range estimation and lead. Hope it helps - it did for me :aok
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Originally posted by MWL
I think the horizontal reticle is 7 or 8 mils. (I am sure an LTAR can tell me exactly) If a Pnzr IV is 7 meters long, it will be 7 mils at 1000 meter range. 3.5 mils at 2000 meters, etc. . . .
Regards,
Hitech posted in another thread that on the stock vehicle sight, the horizontal bars are 10 mils wide. So, at 1000 meters, the bar is 10 meters wide, etc.
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For the record, is the tank sight graduated in yards or meters?
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If the gun site shows distance at only 3.2, how can you kill something at 5.4 or even 6.0 ?
Regards
wipass
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Originally posted by wipass
If the gun site shows distance at only 3.2, how can you kill something at 5.4 or even 6.0 ?
Regards
wipass
See the film I posted above. The tank I'm shooting at is so far away it's even completely out of sight when I raise my barrel to proper elevation.
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Originally posted by RTHolmes
although I do find myself chanting "2k4 ... 2k4 ... 2k4 ... (boom!) ... bo**ocks .... 2k2 ... 2k2 ... 2k2 ..."
I actually say to myself "Bottom of 12, top of 12, middle of 12, ect" based on the lines extending from the bottom of the numbers in the rougher fights. It actually keeps me from forgetting where the last shot was due to recoil.
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Practice. That's all there is too it. Once you get a "fill" for the range that the enemy tank is at, you'll nail em everytime, but it takes practice before perfection mate, good luck :aok .
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Originally posted by Ghastly
I've been playing a little bit in the tanks, and find that I'm absolutely abysmal. I can (eventually) zero in on a stationary target and kill it if I don't run out of ammo...
But I have yet to win any kind of a battle with anyone in another tank - while it may take me as many as 5 or 6 shots to range an opponent that's much beyond point blank, I find that my opponents usually range me in much less - if they don't hit me the first shot.
And it doesn't seem to matter how far away some guys are - the other night it seemed as though the very first shot from a tank that was both behind some trees and at least 2 miles distant hit me with his very first shot.
How do guys do that?
Find me sometime and i'll go to the TA or DA with you and we can work on it. i fly knights in mid and late war .
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Originally posted by Lusche
Some do.
I can say I am quite good at it, anything up to 2.4k I consider as "close range" in game, with a decent first shot hit probabilty even on moving targets. But it took me a few thousand kills to get there.
At longer ranges more rounds are needed. Two days ago I was able to killshot my tiger at 6.2k - no icon at that range led me to believe that panzer out there was an enemy. Needed a lot of ranging shots till I hit the tower, though. :D
Edit:
If someone want a laugh: This is the film. (http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?setlang=en&id=7B234F0C2) (scroll a bit down for download button)
yep i did that too, more than once!
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Originally posted by Stoney74
Hitech posted in another thread that on the stock vehicle sight, the horizontal bars are 10 mils wide. So, at 1000 meters, the bar is 10 meters wide, etc.
Actually, he posted that the horizontal tick marks are 5 mils wide (and this matches with my ranging measurements). The empty space at the center, between the first left and first right tick mark is 10 mils.
The Panzer (broadside, not counting the gun barrel) will be exactly the same length as a single horizontal tick mark at a range of 1200. The Tiger is a bit longer and it matches at something like 1300-1400 (I never fire at Tigers at that range as my T34 will only annoy them).
If the Panzer looks about half the length of a tick mark, then it is twice as far: 2400. If it is twice the length, then it is half the distance, 600. For head on shots, you can use the same method except the Panzer is about half as wide as it is long.
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Originally posted by wipass
If the gun site shows distance at only 3.2, how can you kill something at 5.4 or even 6.0 ?
Regards
wipass
You can still use the range markers as a guide though. When I have to shoot further than the range marks allow, I use the terrain behind the target.
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Originally posted by 715
Actually, he posted that the horizontal tick marks are 5 mils wide (and this matches with my ranging measurements). The empty space at the center, between the first left and first right tick mark is 10 mils.
My bust then...
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For me its based on sizes of the tank.. It takes alot of practice.
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Originally posted by texasmom
You can still use the range markers as a guide though. When I have to shoot further than the range marks allow, I use the terrain behind the target.
So do I although if the target is on a hill that won't work, in which case you have to use the terrain in front of the target, which is somewhat more difficult but still works.
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Old terrain but still find it useful.
After you have found yourself a nice spot and made sure you are in neutral.
1. Get in your main gun position. Make sure it is in default by hitting home key.
2. Hit the F8 key. This allows you to pan your view. Tap the 2 key on your number pad till it looks kinda like this.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/ahss8.jpg)
3. Estimate rang to target and place pointer with mouse under target like in the above.
4. Fire your range shot. Move gun so pointer is back under your target.
5. Note where round lands. Now with your mouse move pointer tip to the center of your crater.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/ahss9.jpg)
6. Now since I am more then couple of tank lengths away. Elevate gun so pointer is just above target. Fire & move pointer back over target with gun.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/ahss10.jpg)
7. Now with mouse place pointer tip in center of new crater.
8. Move gun so tip of pointer is on your target. Fire.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/ahss11.jpg)
9. Don't move mouse or gun and watch round land.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/ahss12.jpg)
10. No new crater I am now hitting target and can fire for effect.
Once you start hitting them you can have 2 rounds in the air at one time.
This is helpful if the they have engine off. It allows you to hit them 2x before they move.
Another thing is with multiple stick modes in game . This allows you to have gv scaling set so gun can make very slow movement. Very useful for long range plinking.
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LOL at the conversation in the text buffer for those shots.:lol
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
So do I although if the target is on a hill that won't work, in which case you have to use the terrain in front of the target, which is somewhat more difficult but still works.
If he's at the top of a hill (with only sky as the back ground) then use your cursor as a reference point. Aim above the target and place your cursor at the bottom most vertical line (below the 32). if your still short then move your sight up a bit (above your cursor) and place your cursor again on the bottom of the vertical line and adjust accordingly with each shot. Once you have him ranged then use the cursor reference to line up your next shot.
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Rangeing is the key and it takes PRACTICE. The old tank town map was a great place for this because shots can go up to 6k which is about the max elevation for most tank guns and the tradgectory of thier ap rounds. I base all my shots on the size of the target, and with PRACTICE first round hits are common. Even at max range you should get a sprite from a hit. For running shots you have to note to long or short plus the lead. Lead is a whole other subject because you have to estimate range and speed.
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Originally posted by 68Ripper
If he's at the top of a hill (with only sky as the back ground) then use your cursor as a reference point. Aim above the target and place your cursor at the bottom most vertical line (below the 32). if your still short then move your sight up a bit (above your cursor) and place your cursor again on the bottom of the vertical line and adjust accordingly with each shot. Once you have him ranged then use the cursor reference to line up your next shot.
Disregard this, It was just an idea that popped into my head at work, when I got home I tried it, and it won't work since your cursor moves when your barrel moves.
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Originally posted by 68Ripper
Disregard this, It was just an idea that popped into my head at work, when I got home I tried it, and it won't work since your cursor moves when your barrel moves.
hmmmmmmmm....am I the only one who uses the "F5, F8, Zoom, Page up, elevate barrel, page down,use mouse" function to keep targets in sight at ranges beyone 3.2K?
Softail
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If you are at full zoom the largest number you should be able to see in a pnz is 16 on the bottom right of your screen. This is basic stuff so vets bear with me. Shift+F4 for ground view. F2 for turret. Zoom in as far as you can with the [] keys.
For some reason I'm finding a lot of tankers are not aware of the next step. Use your UP Arrow key to move the sites in so that the largest number you can see on the bottom right is, that right sweet 16, lol. Set with F10.
After that like they say, practice, practice, practice.
Good Hunting
dr7
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If you're planning to get better with the visual-only ranging, always place your zoom in the same position. It's easier in tanks since the zoom seems to "step" more than in aircraft. I usually have mine in just far enough that I can see the edges of the black around the sight on my screen.
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Originally posted by DR7
If you are at full zoom the largest number you should be able to see in a pnz is 16 on the bottom right of your screen. This is basic stuff so vets bear with me. Shift+F4 for ground view. F2 for turret. Zoom in as far as you can with the [] keys.
For some reason I'm finding a lot of tankers are not aware of the next step. Use your UP Arrow key to move the sites in so that the largest number you can see on the bottom right is, that right sweet 16, lol. Set with F10.
After that like they say, practice, practice, practice.
Good Hunting
dr7
Exactly...a lot of practice :aok
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All the right answers are here: practice/experience, remember your last shot and adjust.
Ussually guys will not bury you in 2 shots from greater than 2.5k. Every now and then we get lucky and pick the right range on our first shot from 5k out but thats just plane luck. Like Lusche said though, if your within 2.5k (and not moving) with a good tanker its a race to get off those shots quickly becuase someone is going down - FAST!
Slightly off topic I can also say that if you are a casual GV'er you should probably focus on engaging targets at long range and don't try to charge headlong into an enemy tank. Try to range them from 2.5 or greater and master that part of the game first - since close-range fighting demands more skills like manuevering, hiding, accurate shooting, etc. that take time to develop. If I got a dollar for every Sunday GV'er who thought he was gonna wiggle his way in close and hit me point blank I could make this a well paying job.
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I try the tank thing now and then but Im really bad at it. I shoot at a tank, and 1st or second shot he fires Im dead. I try again, same thing. Then I get mad and go get a bomb and be done with it. Ya. Im shallow like dat.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I try the tank thing now and then but Im really bad at it. I shoot at a tank, and 1st or second shot he fires Im dead. I try again, same thing. Then I get mad and go get a bomb and be done with it. Ya. Im shallow like dat.
Hee hee hee.. You just described my experience to a T!
I can go you one better in the "Ok, now I'm freaking mad and shallow!!", department though. The other day the A8's were killing me as soon as I'd spawn in, so I went one field over, got a bomber and shut down the vehicle hangers - then shot down one of their squaddies who was climbing up my six in a 190.
Then I went back and got my Corsair, and went hunting for GV's. Teach them to make me go fly planes instead... :)
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Originally posted by Softail
hmmmmmmmm....am I the only one who uses the "F5, F8, Zoom, Page up, elevate barrel, page down,use mouse" function to keep targets in sight at ranges beyone 3.2K?
Softail
I used a sharpie to mark the center of the target to eliminate the page up/move the mouse cursor/page down/head-holding steps. I don't use the f5, f8 thing though. I don't even know what that does.
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On the other side of the coin, the best GV action is when you've got someone steaming from multiple kills, they come back 15 minutes later in a P38 fully loaded, and then you blow their plane up with your 3 inch. You just know they're cursing you at that point. :lol
Sooner or later they will get ya however, so ya just expect it. Besides, that drive back to base sucks so might as well go out with a bang.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
How do you "range" shots in the tank?
Get so close you can't miss
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/psst.jpg)