Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on February 05, 2008, 09:19:49 PM
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Section 1 of Article 2 of the U.S. Constitution states that a President must be, among other things, a natural born citizen of the United States. How does this affect someone who was born in another country, say, the Panama Canal Zone?
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I believe if he's born to parents' who are U.S. citizen's, even abroad, then the child is a U.S. Citizen as well...Even if they are in China at the time.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
I believe if he's born to parents' who are U.S. citizen's, even abroad, then the child is a U.S. Citizen as well...
maybe so, but the requirement is to be a "natural born" citizen. Unfortunately (for America) I believe he was born on a US military base, which meets the "natural born" requirement.
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The Manch...errr, Hanoi Candidate.
:noid
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen#Children_born_outside_the_United_States_to_American_parents
This describes this as an unanswered question, but notes that the PCZ was under US Sovereignty when he was born.
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Nice try Chairboy but only Bill Clinton can offer you that cigar.
He's a U.S. Citizen.
Mac
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"Nice try"? It's called conversation.
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Geez lighten up Nancy, I'm just tuggin yer string.
Mac
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BTW McCain took Oklahoma.
:D
Mac
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Originally posted by AWMac
Nice try Chairboy but only Bill Clinton can offer you that cigar.
He's a U.S. Citizen.
Mac
Arnold Schwartzenegger is also a US Citizen, but he cannot run.
Chairboy is getting to whether being born in the Canal Zone is a Natural Born Citizen.
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States..
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I must be on a bunch or your's ignore list or something. He was born on a military base, that qualifies as "natural born"...
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So if only he was born on some sort of US-by-proxy soil, like maybe an embassy or military base. Was he born on one of those, maybe?
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
I believe if he's born to parents' who are U.S. citizen's, even abroad, then the child is a U.S. Citizen as well...Even if they are in China at the time.
Winner.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html
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Originally posted by Chairboy
So if only he was born on some sort of US-by-proxy soil, like maybe an embassy or military base. Was he born on one of those, maybe?
It doesn't matter where he was born.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html
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for the third time, yes. He was born on a US military installation in Panama.
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Geez.. if Mccain wins the nomination, who are conservatives supposed to vote for? Mccain, Clinton, Obama.... all liberals.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Chairboy is getting to whether being born in the Canal Zone is a Natural Born Citizen.
He's a natural born citizen because of his parents, not his birthplace.
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Originally posted by Sandman
It doesn't matter where he was born.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html
to be a "citizen", sure. But the requirement is to be a "natural born" citizen, and luckily for 100-year-war-McCain being born on a military base on foreign soil qualifies as "natural born".
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Originally posted by Sandman
He's a natural born citizen because of his parents, not his birthplace.
^^
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Unfortunately with the candidates the repoblicans put up.
I see the democrats as a shoe in in the election.
To me its almost as if they conceeded.
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
to be a "citizen", sure. But the requirement is to be a "natural born" citizen, and luckily for 100-year-war-McCain being born on a military base on foreign soil qualifies as "natural born".
Read the code. It defines "natural born."
In McCain's case, I don't believe the location is relevant.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Read the code. It defines "natural born."
The code you posted earlier? The word "natural" doesn't even appear on that page.
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
The code you posted earlier? The word "natural" doesn't even appear on that page.
So?
The key word here is "born" as in "at birth."
...but if you're hung up on the term, try this from the Library of Congress:
http://rs6.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db&recNum=227
"And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States shall be considered as natural born citizens..."
FWIW... Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, ran for president in 1967. He was born in Mexico. His parents were both citizens so he was considered a "natural born" citizen.
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hrmmm, I'm getting hung up on the "natural" part. Why would they say "natural born citizen" if "citizen" would do. Maybe that was just how they spoke back then. I'll have to look into that more, not that it matters... We're in agreement that this isn't an issue for McCain, I'm fine with leaving it at that.
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Because you can become a citizen without American citizens as parents. Here to be a natural born citizen your parents (thats where natural comes into play, parents) have to be US citizens. Thats why Arnold can never be president. His parents were not US citizens, thusly therefor he is not natural born even though is he a citizen.
Does that makes sense?
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Because you can't be a naturalized citizen. (Like Arnie.) You must be a citizen from birth.
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McCain is the best out there with Huckleberry coming in a close second. Because Romney is Mormon he believes that when he dies he becomes a god (lower case g) of some other worldly planet in the universe, populating said planet with countless female angles....
Mormons, although very benign in their religion, are quite whacked. Not Presidential material imo.
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Forget female angles...I'm only interested in their curves.
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McCain/Huckleberry '08
Looks like a good ticket.
:aok
Mac
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There's an Old Rule between fishermen....
If you go fishing with a Mormon bring two.
Otherwise if you bring just one he will drink all your beer and smoke all your cigarettes.
If two are present they'll keep each other in check.
Yep
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
I must be on a bunch or your's ignore list or something. He was born on a military base, that qualifies as "natural born"...
natural born is in reference to being a citizen at birth, not whether he physically born within the US borders.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Geez.. if Mccain wins the nomination, who are conservatives supposed to vote for? Mccain, Clinton, Obama.... all liberals.
if? you mean when ...
I hope we all hold our noses and vote for him
I do not think he can beat either billary or obama though .. how sad is that
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steve.. he is bad but not near as bad as osamabam or billary.
In polls he does beat out billary pretty easy.. he runs about even in a "race" with osamabama.
It is real real early.. osamabama sounds good but is a real whacked out liberal with the record to back him up.. I don't think a recession with plans to go even more in debt for social programs and allow even more illegals is gonna play well for democrats.
I think once people see who osamabama is and what his socialism will do and cost.. and once his voting record is all made public.. I think he will have a hard time beating a "moderate" republican like mc cain.. especially if mc cain chooses his VP wisely.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
In polls he does beat out billary pretty easy.. he runs about even in a "race" with osamabama.
lazs
In a general election matchup, Clinton and Obama bested Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee by more than 10 points apiece. It's much closer between McCain and Clinton or Obama. Clinton leads McCain by four points, and Obama and McCain virtually split the vote (42 percent for Obama, 41 percent for McCain) although both matchups are well within the poll's margin of error.
I realize your made-up facts are more entertaining, but ..... ^
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Originally posted by Yeager
McCain is the best out there with Huckleberry coming in a close second. Because Romney is Mormon he believes that when he dies he becomes a god (lower case g) of some other worldly planet in the universe, populating said planet with countless female angles....
Mormons, although very benign in their religion, are quite whacked. Not Presidential material imo.
The whole gist of this post is that McCain is such a retarded liberal that we are looking for ANY excuse not to vote for him.
I personally won't vote for him at all. I'll probably write in AWMac instead, provided he gives me a cabinet position when he wins.
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As far as i have seen McCain is the least conservative (fundamentalist) of the republican bunch so he would prolly get my vote if i had to choose a republican fundamentalist.
He might even get my vote between obama, clinton and macain
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Since it's traditional to veer off-subject, I might as well mention that I'm not a fan of McCain because of his stance on general aviation. He's not a fan, and it appears he'd be fine if it was simply deleted.
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McCain is the only moderate, from either party, on the list of potential candidates far as I can see.
I am tired of extreme liberals and extreme conservatives. I am neither a anti gun pro gay socialist nanny stater nor pro God neo conservative fundamentalist moral supremicist. I want common sense to permeate all national decisions and McCain looks like the only one capable of common sense to me, with the exception of huckleberry, he seems pretty straightforward too.
Do not tread on me.
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Originally posted by Yeager
McCain is the only moderate, from either party, on the list of potential candidates far as I can see.
I am tired of extreme liberals and extreme conservatives. I am neither a anti gun pro gay socialist nanny stater nor pro God neo conservative fundamentalist moral supremicist. I want common sense to permeate all national decisions and McCain looks like the only one capable of common sense to me, with the exception of huckleberry, he seems pretty straightforward too.
Do not tread on me.
You want common sense to reign supreme, yet you want to compromise with Democrats? Paradox much?
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McCain will use the people as his conduit to reach the democrats. You see, the people, the masses, the great free collective, when added together is the ultimate expression of common sense.
I dont know if you have noticed or not, but ever since bubba clintons first term, america has been tilting towards towards paradoxial political extremism. Im hoping that with McCain the extremism of the left/right can stop long enough to let the moderate center re-establish itself.
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Masses of people are smart now? The ultimate advantage of masses of people is the volume of alternative solution tested and proven or disproven, but it's more akin to millions of chimps typing away than common sense.
Masses of people are one of the best sources of drift away from common sense. Not the least of examples are frivolous lawsuits and other similar peer pressure-like fads.
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Originally posted by Yeager
I dont know if you have noticed or not, but ever since bubba clintons first term, america has been tilting towards towards paradoxial political extremism. Im hoping that with McCain the extremism of the left/right can stop long enough to let the moderate center re-establish itself.
You obviously have not known that America has ALWAYS been paradoxially extreme. It is foolish to think that it only recently just happened.
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just a tad bit elitist are we? :rolleyes:
Dont worry, I'll think for you.
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a half liberal McCain would be better than a full liberal hillary/obama.
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You obviously have not known that America has ALWAYS been paradoxially extreme.
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quantify ALWAYS and provide examples, with dates listed and references included :D
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Originally posted by lazs2
steve.. he is bad but not near as bad as osamabam or billary.
In polls he does beat out billary pretty easy.. he runs about even in a "race" with osamabama.
It is real real early.. osamabama sounds good but is a real whacked out liberal with the record to back him up.. I don't think a recession with plans to go even more in debt for social programs and allow even more illegals is gonna play well for democrats.
I think once people see who osamabama is and what his socialism will do and cost.. and once his voting record is all made public.. I think he will have a hard time beating a "moderate" republican like mc cain.. especially if mc cain chooses his VP wisely.
lazs
I hope you are right about him being not as bad... to me they are all comparable.
FWIW, I do not think either Billary or Hussein Obama can beat Mccain in a general election, primarily for reasons you've mentioned.
I know someone will be tempted to come along and post some poll or other that shows either leftist nutjob ahead of Mccain. The polls today mean nothing, in relation to the general election.
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By that you mean they mean nothing in relation to what you choose to believe.
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Originally posted by Yeager
You obviously have not known that America has ALWAYS been paradoxially extreme.
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quantify ALWAYS and provide examples, with dates listed and references included :D
Dates of strife:
1492 -> February 6th, 2008.
It's very easy to pick out the major ones from ANY time period.
French and Indian War
Revolution
Confederacy
Constitution
Alien and Sedition Acts
Slavery laws
War of 1812
Mexican American War
Slavery Laws
Confederacy / Civil War
Treatment of Indians.
Those are only the MAJOR events that occurred because of the strife between the American peoples. And that list is only for about the first 100 years or so of a proper country (not counting F&I wars).
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Originally posted by midnight Target
By that you mean they mean nothing in relation to what you choose to believe.
No, I mean it is far too early for them to mean much. Let's revisit this thread after the election. One of us can relish in being right.
I don't know what your problem is... but I don't care either. I'm guessing your a black person with a chip on his shoulder for anyone that has anything remotely negative to say about Obama.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
I'm guessing your a black person with a chip on his shoulder for anyone that has anything remotely negative to say about Obama.
Well, that's certainly a poorly thought out statement. I wish I could say it was rare to encounter someone who wishes to so loudly and clearly advertise their ignorance, but sadly, it isn't. :(
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French and Indian War
Revolution
Confederacy
Constitution
Alien and Sedition Acts
Slavery laws
War of 1812
Mexican American War
Slavery Laws
Confederacy / Civil War
Treatment of Indians.
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thanks, good list. I would add womans suffrage, both World Wars, Korea and Viet Nam, and the civil rights struggle as examples of more recent events that challenged us all collectively. Still, in my lifetime the country has experienced relatively moderate climates in political discourse. That is until Bill Clinton was elected by a minority of the electoral vote. Ever since then (in my lifetime) the political discourse in my country has deteriorated largely into extremes of left and right. What I was trying to convey to begin with was that I see McCain as a moderate figure that could bring thoughtful and intellectual discourse back to American politics and that the American collective would be the driving force behind it, not the extreme social and political fringes.
Does that make sense?
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Clinton didn't start the current political divide, the current political divide was started by the neocons to attack Clinton.
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Originally posted by Yeager
French and Indian War
Revolution
Confederacy
Constitution
Alien and Sedition Acts
Slavery laws
War of 1812
Mexican American War
Slavery Laws
Confederacy / Civil War
Treatment of Indians.
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thanks, good list. I would add womans suffrage, both World Wars, Korea and Viet Nam, and the civil rights struggle as examples of more recent events that challenged us all collectively. Still, in my lifetime the country has experienced relatively moderate climates in political discourse. That is until Bill Clinton was elected by a minority of the electoral vote. Ever since then (in my lifetime) the political discourse in my country has deteriorated largely into extremes of left and right. What I was trying to convey to begin with was that I see McCain as a moderate figure that could bring thoughtful and intellectual discourse back to American politics and that the American collective would be the driving force behind it, not the extreme social and political fringes.
Does that make sense?
It does. But sadly, I really doubt that John McCain is the great unifier. I'm convinced that there are now too many factors' in this country that divide it, to ever have it wholeheartedly say it's one nation, indivisible, anymore.
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to ever have it wholeheartedly say it's one nation, indivisible, anymore.
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In my unscientific opinion 20 out of 100 people are arch-cons, 20 out of 100 are arch-libs...the 60 left over are the moderates. Those are the people, and the greater good, that stand to benefit the most from a moderate platform in government, which is where the country needs to balance itself. I happen to think McCain is the most capable candidate running. Most likely wrong but thats how I see it.
And remember this one?
On July 20th 1993, barely six months into his first term, Clinton proposed lifting the ban on homosexuals in the military.
That came out of the blue. No one ran on that platform, It wasn't even discussed during the election. Thr proposal to lift that ban is when most people went WTF? Thats what started the great divide in the country. It energized the hell out of the arch libs and even the average non political types were alarmed by that move. Everything went down hill from there. That is when I perceived the beginning of political extremism taking more of a role in mainstream politics.
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Originally posted by Yeager
thanks, good list. I would add womans suffrage, both World Wars, Korea and Viet Nam, and the civil rights struggle as examples of more recent events that challenged us all collectively. Still, in my lifetime the country has experienced relatively moderate climates in political discourse. That is until Bill Clinton was elected by a minority of the electoral vote. Ever since then (in my lifetime) the political discourse in my country has deteriorated largely into extremes of left and right. What I was trying to convey to begin with was that I see McCain as a moderate figure that could bring thoughtful and intellectual discourse back to American politics and that the American collective would be the driving force behind it, not the extreme social and political fringes.
Does that make sense?
No, there wasn't relatively moderate climates at any time. It's just that we have trouble remembering what was actually happening back then. Or perhaps that we have trouble judging what actually happened in the past.
We have a bad habit of thinking that the current times are the worst it will ever be, and the worst it has ever been.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Well, that's certainly a poorly thought out statement. I wish I could say it was rare to encounter someone who wishes to so loudly and clearly advertise their ignorance, but sadly, it isn't. :(
Unfortunately, all but very few exceptions of the black population in the US has a stubbornly self-imposed stigma of what white people have done to them, and of what's still going on, nevermind what they think whites are still doing to and thinking of them... It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and a poisonous one.. It's one of the few things I'm not looking forward to once I'm back in the US.
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the black population in the US votes 95% democratic, they have marginalized themselves.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Clinton didn't start the current political divide, the current political divide was started by the neocons to attack Clinton.
MT is correct: There was a tremendous bipartisan love permeating the political landscape during the election campaigns of Carter/Ford, Reagan/Carter, Reagan/Mondale, and Bush/Dukakis.
Even the during the election of Andrew Jackson, when his opponents labeled him a jack ass*, it was all in lighthearted nonpartisan fun.
*The origin of the Demos party symbol
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Well, that's certainly a poorly thought out statement. I wish I could say it was rare to encounter someone who wishes to so loudly and clearly advertise their ignorance, but sadly, it isn't. :(
How do you know it's incorrect? What information do you have that I'm wrong... please share your intimate knowledge of MT's inner thoughts.
Oh.. you don't know them... hmmm that makes you the ignorant one.
Personaly, I like MT but I think he's a bit chippy on the Obama thing.
You, on the other hand, are just posting things so you can go on with your life of lollipop dreams and marshmellow kisses, vainly trying to appear more enlightened than I simply because I mentioned someone's race, as if by doing so it in itself is offensive. Grow up, foofie.
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No, there wasn't relatively moderate climates at any time.
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mea culpa :rolleyes:
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My youngest daughter was born in Okinawa while I was stationed there. She is considered to be a natural born citizen of the US.
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Originally posted by Yeager
to ever have it wholeheartedly say it's one nation, indivisible, anymore.
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In my unscientific opinion 20 out of 100 people are arch-cons, 20 out of 100 are arch-libs...the 60 left over are the moderates. Those are the people, and the greater good, that stand to benefit the most from a moderate platform in government, which is where the country needs to balance itself. I happen to think McCain is the most capable candidate running. Most likely wrong but thats how I see it.
And remember this one?
On July 20th 1993, barely six months into his first term, Clinton proposed lifting the ban on homosexuals in the military.
That came out of the blue. No one ran on that platform, It wasn't even discussed during the election. Thr proposal to lift that ban is when most people went WTF? Thats what started the great divide in the country. It energized the hell out of the arch libs and even the average non political types were alarmed by that move. Everything went down hill from there. That is when I perceived the beginning of political extremism taking more of a role in mainstream politics.
The 60 left over aren't saying, or don't care. They aren't moderates;When enough things' happen, they come out to one side or another.
It wasn't just the ban on Homosexuals' that did it. It was the passage of NAFTA, The Whitewater affair, Vincent Fosters' mysterious death, His Assault weapon ban, His gifting big bunches' of money to Mexico, all kinds' of things.
The Monica Lewinsky affair was just the icing on the cake. And I don't mean the affair itself, It was the failure to impeach him.
Now, I'm gonna point out, With all this in perspective, what is there to explain the numbers' that have been generated at the polls? Why are so many, even with the stigma of what happened' during the B.C. Administration, willing to vote in the person who was there right along through it all...Hillary Clinton?
A moderate candidate might be out there. That might help. But I don't think the political rift in this country will ever close.
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the numbers i found are 30% are hard core republican base, 30% are hard core democratic base and the 40% in the middle are the swing voters that really decide the election.
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It was the failure to impeach him.
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Clinton was impeached. The congress impeached him. The senate failed to convict. He would have been removed from office had the senate convicted him.
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Originally posted by Yeager
It was the failure to impeach him.
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Clinton was impeached. The congress impeached him. The senate failed to convict. He would have been removed from office had the senate convicted him.
And by that, I mean the failure. It sent a message to everyone in the U.S. To the majority of the people, many felt that the gov't. really didn't have any power outside of the oval office. To those in gov't. it meant that they had a very good chance of getting away with any damn thing they please.
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I checked my bookmaker's website, McCain is now joint favourite at 13/8 with Obama. Bookies are never wrong. But I can't see Obama becoming president. Some lunatic would shoot him first.
So it's President McCain, get used to it.:D
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
No, I mean it is far too early for them to mean much. Let's revisit this thread after the election. One of us can relish in being right.
I don't know what your problem is... but I don't care either. I'm guessing your a black person with a chip on his shoulder for anyone that has anything remotely negative to say about Obama.
OK, this made me laugh this morning.
1. I'm not Black, but members of my family are.
2. I've never made a secret of the fact that I support Hillary NOT Obama.
3. Problem? I guess my problem is that I don't think like you, or lazs, yet I still refuse to have my political ideals marginalized through ignorance. I like both of you guys, and I would buy the 1st round if we ever made it to the same saloon, but I'm pretty tired of the "Liberal=Evil" BS. So if I have a problem it is that people like me are constantly attacked with labels instead of ideas.
Have a nice day.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Why are so many, even with the stigma of what happened' during the B.C. Administration, willing to vote in the person who was there right along through it all...Hillary Clinton?
And you conveniently forget that Clinton left office with a 60% approval rating.
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mt.. I like you too.. until you try to take from me by force. There is nothing wrong with me saying that liberalism is evil.. I ask nothing of liberals except to leave me alone.. it is the socialists who can't leave me alone. so who is the bad guy here?
You are welcome to pay more on your income tax to help support any hair brained scheme you "feel" is a good idea.. when you.. or you have others.. take it from me at the point of a gun... well.. then it gets a little less friendly.
I am not against any voluntary program. I am not against some level of defense or some level of keeping the courts in working condition or even in one federal police force. The rest of it... no thanks.
lazs
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back to McCain... I was looking into the rumors regarding the blackmail-worthy dirt that Hillary supposedly has on McCain and came across this site, http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/. wow, this guy just gets uglier and uglier the more I learn about him...
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so you like the democrats more?
You are doing what you accused the rest of us of doing.. you are demonizing the best candidate (paul is out of it). You seem to be big on helping billary osamabama machine..
Is it just spite?
I didn't make you invest so much of your life into ron paul.. you lost.. get over it.
help us keep the worst candidate out.
I voted for paul in the primaries by the way.
lazs
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Lazs I think he's saying McCain is dirty, not that Hillary is better.
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Originally posted by lazs2
so you like the democrats more?
not really. I dislike 'em all, almost equally... :) Welfare state vs. warfare state, both mean the end of the America we love. Mainly, I'm just saying that 100-year-war-McCain ain't gonna save the GOP. He's not the "straight-talk express" he likes to call himself, he's not conservative, and now there's rumors (not saying they're true...) regarding his POW record. There's nothing that will guarantee a Hillobama victory more than McCain as the GOP nominee. (IMO)
You are doing what you accused the rest of us of doing.. you are demonizing the best candidate (paul is out of it). You seem to be big on helping billary osamabama machine..
is it possible to demonize a demon?
Is it just spite?
no, just a major dislike for McCain. If I were to vote for a lesser-evil (which I won't, I'll write Paul in if I have to) it certainly wouldn't be McCain. At this point my "lesser evil" would be Huckabee, now that Thompson's out.
I didn't make you invest so much of your life into ron paul.. you lost.. get over it.
it ain't over till it's over. Also, this isn't just about Paul and it's not just about the 2008 elections.
help us keep the worst candidate out.
no, the GOP and it's willingness to abandon conservative principles got itself into this mess, it can get itself out.
I voted for paul in the primaries by the way.
I know, I read that and congratulated you. I know your heads in the right place and we probably agree on 99% of the issues. However, keeping the Dem out isn't my #1 priority, I'm just not willing to go the "lesser-evil" route. I'm sure you've heard "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me..." before. How many times are you going to let the GOP fool you?
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The attacks on Kerry's war record made me sick, attacks on McCain's seem even worse. It is time for Americans to collectively put an end to this BS by shunning anyone who chooses to go the route of the rumor mongers. Freedom of speech is critical, but we don't have an obligation to listen.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
OK, this made me laugh this morning.
I'm pretty tired of the "Liberal=Evil" BS. Have a nice day.
These are not rhetorical questions, MT. I knwo you yo be reasonable and thoughtful so please help me out here.
What is not "evil" about liberlism to an American? Seriously?
Liberals want to take as much money from me and give it to others. They actually want to lessen my ability to raise my children in a safe and happy environment by taking my money against my will and giving it to others. Many of these "others" are completely capable of working yet are happy to live off money I've earned, money you've earned. Are you really OK with this? Do you think it's Ok for the government to decide how I spend my money?
Liberals want to aid and abet those who would live among us yet refuse to assimilate into our society, even though immigrants have been doing so and suceeding for two centuries. Many of the illegal aliens who refuse to assimilate demand equal rights as citizens. Why is this fair? They refuse to assimilate into our culture yet expect our culture to cater to them by offering them social programs and, most heinously, they expect us to accomodate THEM in our society by making our country bilingual. Yet these people came here illegally and are already a huge drain on our resources.
Liberals say pretty things like: "The illegal aliens do jobs our people won't do." You know this to be the BS of which you speak, right? If "our people" won't do these jobs, who the heck was doing them before all the illegal aliens arrived? I've asked this question of many liberals on this board. Not one can give me a straight answer.
You made it clear that you find liberalism being called "evil" offensive. Tell me, what's good about liberalism?
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SteveBailey: Your message doesn't seem to make a distinction between legal immigrants and illegals, you seem to use the terms interchangeably. Could you clarify whether your concerns apply to both groups?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The attacks on Kerry's war record made me sick, attacks on McCain's seem even worse. It is time for Americans to collectively put an end to this BS by shunning anyone who chooses to go the route of the rumor mongers. Freedom of speech is critical, but we don't have an obligation to listen.
...except of course, for this generation of Americans. This, the media-dependent one. The American public would have elected Montel if he chose to run. It used to be, that a military war record was just proof that a candidate was a good citizen. Now you're actually better off if you didn't serve at all. Look at Clinton, and actually, Bush jr. as well. Clinton dodged the draft, and Bush jr. sat out Vietnam in the ANG.
As a matter of fact, after the election, I DOUBLY respected John Kerry...I think running for President, knowing he would have everything laid open, showed he was more honest than any of his rivals. And the man DID go to Vietnam, and he DID go into combat. Which is more than what our current sweetheartbag can claim.
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Well, I am firmly in favor of immigration reform. I also believe that we need to make English the national language. I don't think it is feasible to deport 12 million illegals, but I think we need to take steps to stem the tide. That includes some of the economic assistance that Clinton started with Mexico. The best way to slow immigration from the south is to make staying in Mexico a valid choice for starving people.
You don't have a choice on where your tax dollars go now. They are controlled for good or bad by the government, and the so-called conservatives haven't had any trouble spending more of it than anyone in the past. I think spending it on health care and other social programs (some of which I admit have been failures) will be more beneficial to our continued wellbeing than the boondoggle in Iraq and the billions wasted there.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The attacks on Kerry's war record made me sick, attacks on McCain's seem even worse. It is time for Americans to collectively put an end to this BS by shunning anyone who chooses to go the route of the rumor mongers. Freedom of speech is critical, but we don't have an obligation to listen.
Kerry's war record is not in the same league as McCain's. Who has been attacking McCain's?
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Originally posted by AKIron
Kerry's war record is not in the same league as McCain's. Who has been attacking McCain's?
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_hopper_video.htm
Same BS as the attacks on Kerry.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Kerry's war record is not in the same league as McCain's. Who has been attacking McCain's?
Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain claim that McCain got medical treatment as a POW in exchange for providing military information to his captors, information that led to US planes being shot down.
In 2000, Bush and company insinuated that McCain was the illegitimate birth father of the child they adopted from Bangladesh.
It's called SwiftBoating.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
It does. But sadly, I really doubt that John McCain is the great unifier. I'm convinced that there are now too many factors' in this country that divide it, to ever have it wholeheartedly say it's one nation, indivisible, anymore.
The media of this great country is the one who causes the big political rifts in our society, they have since the start!
if they decide we will be one again then presto, we are indivisible! WOW
In the early years of this country the paper was the big tool , candidate's were lied about on a daily basis with no checks and balances to correct this problem, the reason it happened then is the same as it is now, it sells news. if we all agree, then there is nothing to report,
the media goes broke!
free press is very important to the fabric of our survival, almost as important as true and fair press, somebody forgot to put that in the bill of rights i guess. i hear paul harvey say it all the time "self goverment cannot work without self dicipline" it should apply to free speech as well dont speculate and call it news, find the fact's and report them as such!
What we have seen in the last 40 years is that our goverment has been listening more and more, to what the media has to say, and acting on this information instead of common sence and the basic principle of freedom, (I.E. seatbelts save lives) to heck with your rights,(i heard a policeman say recently we have too protect the people from themselves, they can't be trusted do do what is right!) we need the support of the people to stay in power, to get that support we must do as the media wants, as they feed the people's minds!
Some of the best leaders we have are the ones we tend to hate or make fun of because we are fed that line thru TV and print and radio (they only want to serve themselves we say or he is an idiot) do we really know these polititions or do we just know what someone else said about them, the media hates them because they can't be swayed!
The very definition of leadership goes contrary to what we expect now thanks to the media,but i'll give it too you in my terms!
To lead well means to take the very best info you have, good or not, right or wrong, and act accordingly hopeing for the best result, expecting the worst and standing strong with your decision's, not wavering to gain anything other than success!
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Originally posted by Chairboy
SteveBailey: Your message doesn't seem to make a distinction between legal immigrants and illegals, you seem to use the terms interchangeably.
I didn't use them interchangeably, I was being lazy by not typing "illegal". I edited it, hope it clears it up .
Once again, I've asked our liberal friends about who was doing the jobs illegals will only do, before illegals came here.....
*crickets*
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It's called SwiftBoating.
====
No that garbage is called attempted character assassination and should never be confused with swiftboating.
Swiftboating is unique in that it has only one prerequisite: You must be named John Kerry and testify before a congressional commitee so that your anti american assanine traitorous words can be replayed for all to hear over and over again into perpeptuity.
Kerry is one unique rodeo clown. I will give him that
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
These are not rhetorical questions, MT. I knwo you yo be reasonable and thoughtful so please help me out here.
What is not "evil" about liberlism to an American? Seriously?
'snip'
You made it clear that you find liberalism being called "evil" offensive. Tell me, what's good about liberalism?
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com/Other_Voices/all_the_good_of_liberalism.htm
I admit I got help from the intertubes...
Interstate Highway System
era: 1950's-present
Proposed by Roosevelt and erected by Eisenhower (a Republican), the Interstate system was a big government project. As much as anything else in the post WWII era, the Interstate is responsible for tremendous economic growth, prosperity, and has spawned an entire culture.
GI Bill
era: 1950's
This act of Congress enabled millions upon millions of Americans to get college educations, something that most Americans had never had the opportunity to do previously. An entire generation of leaders, scientists, and business people owe their education to the GI Bill.
Labor Laws
era: 1930's-present
An end to child labor, 40 hour work weeks, the right of employees to collectively bargain, overtime pay, workplace safety, all of the things we take for granted today are thanks to liberal laws passed in the first half of this century. It was the conservatives who fought tooth and nail against the end of sweatshops and exploitation.
Marshall Plan
era: late 1940's-1950's
Foreign aid is a popular scapegoat these days. Those who would cut it should look back at the Marshall Plan, which rebuilt Europe, and is the major reason that Communism never made it past East Berlin.
Environmental Laws
era: 1970's-present
The environment has gotten much better in the last 30 years thanks to liberals. Bald Eagles fly once again thanks to endangered species laws, most rivers and lakes are clean again due to anti-pollution laws, and frequent smog days are a thing of the past in most big American cities.
Food safety laws
era: 1910's-present
Ever read Sinclair's "The Jungle?" That's what things were really like before food purity laws were on the books. Today cases of food poisoning are rare, and consumers know that whatever they buy is safe to eat.
Workplace safety laws
era: 1930's-present
Long hours in unsafe conditions are much rarer today than in the past. Tragedies such as the Triangle Shirtwaist fire and child labor have been eliminated by liberal and progressive legislation.
Social Security
era: 1930's-1970's
This program has provided three generations of Americans retirement benefits, and nearly eliminated poverty among the elderly. The program is weakening now, but for 50 years it did its job to a T.
Economic Growth
era: 1950's-1960's
Liberalism and economic prosperity go hand-in-hand. Unlike the pseudo-boom of the 1980's, the 1950's and 1960's were a period of sustained and real growth for all sectors of the economy and all social classes. Taxes were fair, government worked, and America prospered under both Democratic and Republican administrations
Space Program
era: 1950's-present
It was Kennedy who challenged us to make it to the moon, and it is under his and Johnson's administrations that the space program took off, with numerous benefits to American industry and peoples' standard of living, not to mention national pride. If you are reading this on a computer, thank the space program and the liberals who got it going.
Peace corps
era: 1960's-present
Kennedy inspired thousands of Americans to ask what they could do for their country, and the Peace Corps is his most visible and effective legacy
Civil rights movement
era: 1950's-present
Liberal ideals drove the biggest change in American society since the Civil War, the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. All Americans who believe in freedom and opportunity cannot help but be inspired by the valiant struggles of MLK and others. Also recall if you will that the major opponents of civil rights were conservatives.
The Tennessee Valley project
era: 1930's
The Depression-era government program bought electricity to thousands of impoverished families in Appalachia, prevented floods, and created thousands of new jobs.
Women's right to vote
era: 1920's-present
Before 1920, half of America's population could not exercise the essential duty of citizenship.
Universal Public Education
era: 1890's-present
The reason America is so strong economically is because we have a well-educated citizenry. Public schooling is the true melting pot of America, where every student, regardless of economic background can be taught the basics of citizenship. It is no coincidence that in the last 20 years, as conservatives have greatly weakened the public school system, that American students have scored lower on tests and our civic society has started to unravel.
National Weather Service
era: 1930's-present
This is one of those things you never think about, but you are glad its there. Far from just forecasting the weather, the NWS also provides vital data to pilots and sailors, and the NWS satellites and observation posts provide the raw data that all other weather forecasting services (private ones too!) depend on.
Product Labeling/Truth in Advertising Laws
era: 1910's-present
"We take it for granted that if a claim is made publicly for a product, it's reasonable to assume it's true. Plus, every time we check the ingredients on a can or package of food, we should mentally call down blessings on the liberals who passed the necessary legislation over the anguished howls of the conservatives, who were convinced such info would be prohibitively expensive, and too big a burden on business."
Public Health
era: 1910's-present
Government funded water and sewage systems are an important part of modernity. In addition, organizations such as the National Institute of Health and the Center for Disease Control play an important part in maintaining the national health and preventing epidemics through research, vaccination programs, etc.
Morrill Land Grant Act
era: late 1800's
This act is the reason why nearly every state in the Union has a large public university. These centers of learning have educated untold millions of Americans. If you went to a school with a state name in it, then you were helped by liberalism.
Rural Electrification
era: 1930's-1960's
This allowed remote, rural areas of the country the basic convenience of electricity. I am sure that those of us using computers on the internet, sitting in our air conditioned homes, under our electric lights consider electricity a basic necessity - one that the pure market would never have found profitable to provide to isolated farming communities.
Public Universities
era: 1890's-present day
Put a college education within the reach of nearly every American. In addition to education, many of these institutions have played key roles in all kinds of scientific research and been a strong influence on our entire society.
Bank Deposit Insurance
era: 1930's-present day
About 1934, as part of extensive New Deal banking legislation, Congress created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) to provide federal insurance for bank deposits. This was instrumental in restoring confidence in our nation's banks, and remains so to this day.
Earned Income Tax Credit
era: 1970's-present day
Reduces the tax burden for working families who make under $28,500.00 You have to earn income to get it. It is not a handout. It's a great incentive for families to stay off welfare. But the atmosphere has changed in Washington, and Republicans had to find a way to pay for their capital-gains tax cut, and EITC was their ticket to success. So, the Republicans voted to cut this program by $29 billion over a certain time frame. Well guess what? They just raised the taxes on lower income working families.
Family and Medical Leave Act
era: 1993-present day
This is a program which mandates that you have the right to job leave to take care of sick family members, or to have a child. Many conservatives were opposed to this valuable piece of legislation. Perhaps they were opposed to family values?
Consumer Product Safety Commission
era: 1972-present day
These guys regulate consumer products for safety. Everything from sharp (and edible) baby toys to flammable pjamas have been taken off the market due to the work of this commission.
Public Broadcasting
era: 1930's-present day
Millions of our children have learned from shows like Sesame Street, 3-2-1 Contact, and Mister Rogers (and so many more). Millions of adults continue to learn from shows like Nova. Also, the best broadcast journalism is by far National Public Radio. PBS and NPR have served to enrich our national culture.
Americans With Disabilities Act
era: 1990-present day
Civil rights for disabled citizens. It is fair, just, and it is the law of the land. Credit where credit is due, former Senator Bob Dole helped push this through, a rare nod in favor of liberalism from Mr. Dole.
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lol, just read a new euphemism for McCain... Captain Amnesty! I think I like that better than 100-year-war-McCain, but it's close... ;)
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McCain loan could violate donor privacy (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7837.html)
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It kills me to see McCain being "swift boated" by members of his own party.
John McCain isn't conservative? Please! There was more to the Republican party before social conservatives hi-jacked it and turned it into what it is today.
McCain is a Republican in the ilk of Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon (yes... i'll say it - he wasn't all bad / just mostly :lol ) and Ford... he even, (dare i invoke the name of the Gods Gift to the White House) reminds me in some ways of Reagan in his ability to work with the opposition.
But here you are (repubs) raking him over the coals.
If you want a democrat in office in 09 then keep it up. I know i won't mind. But out of principle, I can't sit by and be quiet while a man like McCain is abused by Limbaugh's minions.
It just boggles the mind
:rolleyes: :huh :rolleyes: :huh
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
It kills me to see McCain being "swift boated" by members of his own party.
John McCain isn't conservative? Please! There was more to the Republican party before social conservatives hi-jacked it and turned it into what it is today.
McCain is a Republican in the ilk of Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon (yes... i'll say it - he wasn't all bad / just mostly :lol ) and Ford... he even, (dare i invoke the name of the Gods Gift to the White House) reminds me in some ways of Reagan
I stopped reading here when I realized that you were totally full of ****.
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Yeah, McCain the conservative, who in 2005 sponsored S.1033, the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.1033:), which in addition to granting amnesty (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:1:./temp/~c109Ky5YOG:e132533:) to undocumented aliens who pass a few tests and pay a fine, also contained a provision (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:1:./temp/~c109Ky5YOG:e161155:) which directed US federal agencies to come up with a plan to expand health coverage into Mexico and gave insurance companies the privilege to help devise said plan.
S.1033 had 9 additional cosponsors, including such conservative icons as Ted Kennedy, Joe Lieberman, John Kerry and (drumroll please...) Barack Obama.
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
John McCain isn't conservative? Please! McCain is a Republican in the ilk , Goldwater,
Blaahahahahah! OMG. :lol :rofl
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If you "political scholars" have your heads so far up your collective arse that you can't see the plain and simple truth in front of you... well, then that's your sad pathetic life to live.
You all amaze me :rolleyes:
Read a book-
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There's good chances that the plain simple truth about McCain is closer for Steve to plainly see than it is to you.
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Originally posted by moot
There's good chances that the plain simple truth about McCain is closer for Steve to plainly see than it is to you.
Well considering that even I am wrong every once in a while... i suppose you're right :p
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Originally posted by myelo
Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain claim that McCain got medical treatment as a POW in exchange for providing military information to his captors, information that led to US planes being shot down.
In 2000, Bush and company insinuated that McCain was the illegitimate birth father of the child they adopted from Bangladesh.
It's called SwiftBoating.
Horsepucky. Substantiate your claim about Bush's claim or withdraw it.
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but myelo is only insinuating that it happened.
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And yet the "swiftboaters" are real live people who knew John Kerry, which he does not refute. John kerry's outrageous and grievous defamation of our soldiers, who actually shed more than a few drops of their blood, is on record for all to see in disgust.
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Heck, I bet I shed more blood on duty than John Kerry when I was in the AF and I never saw combat or got a Purple Heart.
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I'm in full agreement that swift boating is an ugly tactic and apologize for posting the 'nam vets vs. mccain URL. At the time, I actually didn't make the connection that Hillary's claims regarding "dirt" on McCain were from that site. I only watched the video on the top of that page, the one where a POW's family member was getting the third degree from McCain in a Senate hearing (nothing unsubstantiated about that, you can see it for yourself), and was reacting to that when I said he get's uglier the more I learn about him. That's still true, but I certainly did not intend to contribute to the swiftboating of anyone. For that I apologize.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Horsepucky. Substantiate your claim about Bush's claim or withdraw it.
http://community.myfoxphilly.com/blogs/af40/2008/01/18/Say_It_Aint_So_Mike
I figure a Fox News source might be persuasive.
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A blog posted on some local fox bbs containing something like this is hardly persuasive.
"First, it's clear South Carolina probably has not moved beyond its racist, segregationist past. It's not enough to claim that McCain had an illegitimate child (a ridiculous claim), but that, "on top of it all", the child is part African-American."
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Originally posted by AKIron
Horsepucky. Substantiate your claim about Bush's claim or withdraw it.
We're you not yet able to read newspapers in 2000? If you want the details, google it.
Here's a start:
Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/03/21/the_anatomy_of_a_smear_campaign/)
Push polls "asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccain (http://)
"A mysterious semi-underground campaign began against McCain, delivered by push polls, faxes, e-mails, flyers, and the like, and comprising a series of smears: most famously, that he had fathered a black child out of wedlock (a hurtful reference to the McCains' dark-skinned daughter Bridget, adopted from Bangladesh,..."
I suspect you'll just dismiss any source out of hand so I'll stop there.
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Ok, I'll concede that there was a small local smear campaign in Boston that I never heard about because it was insignificant. Laying this at Bush's feet is ludicrous.
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Yea, Bush had nothing to do with it, It was Rove. And we all know that Bush has absolutely no control over the actions of his suborditates. Helluva job Rovee.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Ok, I'll concede that there was a small local smear campaign in Boston that I never heard about because it was insignificant. Laying this at Bush's feet is ludicrous.
It was South Carolina not Boston. And far from insignificant, the South Carolina primary was critical at that point of the campaign in 2000. In fact, McCain never really recovered from the SC defeat.
As for Bush not being involved ... son, is this your first rodeo?
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In the interest of fairness, since I posted Ron Paul's CPAC speech in the Who Is Ron Paul thread, here's McCains speech at CPAC yesterday.
part 1 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Ryh7NVK7Yo&feature=user
part 2 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=MkfddbTgQQ4&feature=user
part 3 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=VyWIfzuyT68&feature=user
he's definitely making an effort to sound more conservative...
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I am no fan of mccain.. but... he does give a great speech.. he comes off as genuine.... the jug eared osamabam looks foolish next to him. osamabama looks fake and unsubstantial.. which.. is what he is.
mccain is who he is tho.. he is no friend of the conservative except in spending and defense.. he will lower our taxes. He also has a mean streak that takes some by surprise.
He is no more mean than billary but more clever and believable.. he is way meaner than osamabama... he will rip the silly buffoon a new one.
It won't be hard.. just ask him how he is gonna pay for all his bribery give away programs.
lazs
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Originally posted by midnight Target
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com/Other_Voices/all_the_good_of_liberalism.htm
I admit I got help from the intertubes...
Interstate Highway System
era: 1950's-present
Proposed by Roosevelt and erected by Eisenhower (a Republican), the Interstate system was a big government project. As much as anything else in the post WWII era, the Interstate is responsible for tremendous economic growth, prosperity, and has spawned an entire culture.
GI Bill
era: 1950's
This act of Congress enabled millions upon millions of Americans to get college educations, something that most Americans had never had the opportunity to do previously. An entire generation of leaders, scientists, and business people owe their education to the GI Bill.
Labor Laws
era: 1930's-present
An end to child labor, 40 hour work weeks, the right of employees to collectively bargain, overtime pay, workplace safety, all of the things we take for granted today are thanks to liberal laws passed in the first half of this century. It was the conservatives who fought tooth and nail against the end of sweatshops and exploitation.
Marshall Plan
era: late 1940's-1950's
Foreign aid is a popular scapegoat these days. Those who would cut it should look back at the Marshall Plan, which rebuilt Europe, and is the major reason that Communism never made it past East Berlin.
Environmental Laws
era: 1970's-present
The environment has gotten much better in the last 30 years thanks to liberals. Bald Eagles fly once again thanks to endangered species laws, most rivers and lakes are clean again due to anti-pollution laws, and frequent smog days are a thing of the past in most big American cities.
Food safety laws
era: 1910's-present
Ever read Sinclair's "The Jungle?" That's what things were really like before food purity laws were on the books. Today cases of food poisoning are rare, and consumers know that whatever they buy is safe to eat.
Workplace safety laws
era: 1930's-present
Long hours in unsafe conditions are much rarer today than in the past. Tragedies such as the Triangle Shirtwaist fire and child labor have been eliminated by liberal and progressive legislation.
Social Security
era: 1930's-1970's
This program has provided three generations of Americans retirement benefits, and nearly eliminated poverty among the elderly. The program is weakening now, but for 50 years it did its job to a T.
Economic Growth
era: 1950's-1960's
Liberalism and economic prosperity go hand-in-hand. Unlike the pseudo-boom of the 1980's, the 1950's and 1960's were a period of sustained and real growth for all sectors of the economy and all social classes. Taxes were fair, government worked, and America prospered under both Democratic and Republican administrations
Space Program
era: 1950's-present
It was Kennedy who challenged us to make it to the moon, and it is under his and Johnson's administrations that the space program took off, with numerous benefits to American industry and peoples' standard of living, not to mention national pride. If you are reading this on a computer, thank the space program and the liberals who got it going.
Peace corps
era: 1960's-present
Kennedy inspired thousands of Americans to ask what they could do for their country, and the Peace Corps is his most visible and effective legacy
Civil rights movement
era: 1950's-present
Liberal ideals drove the biggest change in American society since the Civil War, the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. All Americans who believe in freedom and opportunity cannot help but be inspired by the valiant struggles of MLK and others. Also recall if you will that the major opponents of civil rights were conservatives.
The Tennessee Valley project
era: 1930's
The Depression-era government program bought electricity to thousands of impoverished families in Appalachia, prevented floods, and created thousands of new jobs.
Women's right to vote
era: 1920's-present
Before 1920, half of America's population could not exercise the essential duty of citizenship.
Universal Public Education
era: 1890's-present
The reason America is so strong economically is because we have a well-educated citizenry. Public schooling is the true melting pot of America, where every student, regardless of economic background can be taught the basics of citizenship. It is no coincidence that in the last 20 years, as conservatives have greatly weakened the public school system, that American students have scored lower on tests and our civic society has started to unravel.
National Weather Service
era: 1930's-present
This is one of those things you never think about, but you are glad its there. Far from just forecasting the weather, the NWS also provides vital data to pilots and sailors, and the NWS satellites and observation posts provide the raw data that all other weather forecasting services (private ones too!) depend on.
Product Labeling/Truth in Advertising Laws
era: 1910's-present
"We take it for granted that if a claim is made publicly for a product, it's reasonable to assume it's true. Plus, every time we check the ingredients on a can or package of food, we should mentally call down blessings on the liberals who passed the necessary legislation over the anguished howls of the conservatives, who were convinced such info would be prohibitively expensive, and too big a burden on business."
Public Health
era: 1910's-present
Government funded water and sewage systems are an important part of modernity. In addition, organizations such as the National Institute of Health and the Center for Disease Control play an important part in maintaining the national health and preventing epidemics through research, vaccination programs, etc.
Morrill Land Grant Act
era: late 1800's
This act is the reason why nearly every state in the Union has a large public university. These centers of learning have educated untold millions of Americans. If you went to a school with a state name in it, then you were helped by liberalism.
Rural Electrification
era: 1930's-1960's
This allowed remote, rural areas of the country the basic convenience of electricity. I am sure that those of us using computers on the internet, sitting in our air conditioned homes, under our electric lights consider electricity a basic necessity - one that the pure market would never have found profitable to provide to isolated farming communities.
Public Universities
era: 1890's-present day
Put a college education within the reach of nearly every American. In addition to education, many of these institutions have played key roles in all kinds of scientific research and been a strong influence on our entire society.
Bank Deposit Insurance
era: 1930's-present day
About 1934, as part of extensive New Deal banking legislation, Congress created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) to provide federal insurance for bank deposits. This was instrumental in restoring confidence in our nation's banks, and remains so to this day.
Earned Income Tax Credit
era: 1970's-present day
Reduces the tax burden for working families who make under $28,500.00 You have to earn income to get it. It is not a handout. It's a great incentive for families to stay off welfare. But the atmosphere has changed in Washington, and Republicans had to find a way to pay for their capital-gains tax cut, and EITC was their ticket to success. So, the Republicans voted to cut this program by $29 billion over a certain time frame. Well guess what? They just raised the taxes on lower income working families.
Family and Medical Leave Act
era: 1993-present day
This is a program which mandates that you have the right to job leave to take care of sick family members, or to have a child. Many conservatives were opposed to this valuable piece of legislation. Perhaps they were opposed to family values?
Consumer Product Safety Commission
era: 1972-present day
These guys regulate consumer products for safety. Everything from sharp (and edible) baby toys to flammable pjamas have been taken off the market due to the work of this commission.
Public Broadcasting
era: 1930's-present day
Millions of our children have learned from shows like Sesame Street, 3-2-1 Contact, and Mister Rogers (and so many more). Millions of adults continue to learn from shows like Nova. Also, the best broadcast journalism is by far National Public Radio. PBS and NPR have served to enrich our national culture.
Americans With Disabilities Act
era: 1990-present day
Civil rights for disabled citizens. It is fair, just, and it is the law of the land. Credit where credit is due, former Senator Bob Dole helped push this through, a rare nod in favor of liberalism from Mr. Dole.
Nice work MT. unfortunately you have confused Liberalism w/ being a democrat. They are not the same. as an example, you mention Kennedy. He was not liberal... no way.
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yep... he also tends to ignore the fact that it was democrats who fought real civil rights and republicans who fought for em.. the states that resisted the constitution were democrat ones.
The phony "extra rights" like affirmative action and such were all by the new liberal socialist democrats.
I think we can draw a line at kennedy for modern interpretation of what a democrat has become.. even humphrey was more of a republican than most republicans are today.
In germany many great projects like their road system were a result of hitler.. of a desire for defense .. to get the army around. I would say republicans would have supported such an effort.
lazs
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"democrat", "republican", "liberal", "conservative"... isn't that all just semantics? Doesn't it really boil down to the old federalism (big fedgov, less states rights) vs. anti-federalism (smaller fedgov, more states rights) argument? Maybe I'm just in a minority that still thinks along those lines... Are the only viable options now big gov't liberalism vs big gov't neo-conservatism?
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"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
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Originally posted by bsdaddict
"democrat", "republican", "liberal", "conservative"... isn't that all just semantics?
NO
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Nice work MT. unfortunately you have confused Liberalism w/ being a democrat. They are not the same. as an example, you mention Kennedy. He was not liberal... no way.
Then you didn't really read it. All of those items mentioned are "Liberal" as in the opposite of "Conservative". Kennedy's conservatism or Nixon's liberalism (he was all for national health care), have nothing to do with my post. The programs are liberal... <---period
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The programs are liberal... <---period
riiiiiight
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MT did kinda hit the nail on the head there... the "programs" in and of themselves, are liberal. Liberal in the sense that they're conceived with the notion that a bigger fedgov is the answer to social problems/issues. Now, the civil rights these "programs" were intended to protect are liberal, in the Classically Liberal sense, but protecting said rights is a paleo-conservative position...
See why I said that we're getting in arguments over semantics?
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McCain: Like Hope, but different... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gwqEneBKUs)