Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: texasmom on February 06, 2008, 10:57:52 PM
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Religious police in Saudi Arabia arrest mother for sitting with a man:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece
Even though I believe that the law they're talking about here is completely ridiculous... You should still show respect for the laws of the host country (regardless of how idiotic they are). If she's already been living in that country for 8 years, I'm sure she's familiar enough with the separate seating arrangements required at the local starbucks.
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See, now where are all the requests for the B-29 with a nook? I think they'd be much more appropriate here...;)
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and they have plans to build uber-college-university ........good freaking luck. Religious loonies....
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Second that:aok
You know, with all the good minds we have here, we could really put something together.
I'm thinking pull all the friendies out of the area, put a few Raptors through their paces, let the heavies come in and glass it over. Wait for it, this is the money shot... Desert Mod Zambonis. Get 'em in there, polish up and presto-we've got the 3rd man made wonder that can be seen from space.
After a few thousand years, we're charging admission!
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
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they do not respect our culture.
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Originally posted by john9001
they do not respect our culture.
doesn't mean we shouldn't respect their laws while visiting their country.
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they just whooped that trick!
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Originally posted by texasmom
doesn't mean we shouldn't respect their laws while visiting their country.
Face of their country doesn't either; 1000 of their princes sure do like to party hard....
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"the ongoing saga of the human as destructive super-chimp hiding behind delusional unassailable beliefs that trump rational thought and knowledge of the natural world, must stop"
i wish i could write like that.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Religious police in Saudi Arabia arrest mother for sitting with a man:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece
Even though I believe that the law they're talking about here is completely ridiculous... You should still show respect for the laws of the host country (regardless of how idiotic they are). If she's already been living in that country for 8 years, I'm sure she's familiar enough with the separate seating arrangements required at the local starbucks.
Of course you're right. For example, last time I was in germany I knocked off a few jews one sunday after Oktoberfest.
They do say "When in Rome..." however I've never had so much fun!
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Did anyone notice the response of the U.S. consulate? It was being treated as an "internal Saudi Matter." This woman was an American Citizen.
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I wish the best for that woman, but its most likely a lost cause. They'll probably let her off with a light punishment though, just a beheading.
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This is what happens with a people and religion still living in the 12'th century. I said back in the Gulf War that were bombing the wrong A-rabs.
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The selectivity of their religious sanctions is laughable.
It is a scared culture fed by even more terrified religious zealots who will push anything to remain in control.
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Even in America .... an American Citizen is treated second rate. To all the wetback, cubans, any trash that washes on shore........
Politically Correct just means no spine!
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She should have been stoned!:O
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I am sure the Saudis think the same thing when one of their citizens is arrested in the US for slapping his wife around.
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Originally posted by john9001
they do not respect our culture.
That's an understatement. Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.
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I don't believe her to be that much of a victim. Does it suck? Sure.
However, if you willingly work & live in another country ~ and know what kind of people that they are ~ why be surprised or appalled when an incident like this occurs?
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
They'll probably let her off with a light punishment though, just a beheading.
Nice one Abdullah...like it, like it.
*shut up you*
Terrific race the Arabs.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Sandman
That's an understatement. Fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.
While that is true, the Saudi government was not behind the attacks. So I see the nationality of the hijackers as irrelevant.
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Originally posted by Elfie
While that is true, the Saudi government was not behind the attacks. So I see the nationality of the hijackers as irrelevant.
Other than there's probably more *******s where they came from.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Other than there's probably more *******s where they came from.
Winner!
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
I am sure the Saudis think the same thing when one of their citizens is arrested in the US for slapping his wife around.
They probably do. But they should likewise respect the laws of this country while they're living/working here ~ and keep their hands off.
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Originally posted by texasmom
I don't believe her to be that much of a victim. Does it suck? Sure.
However, if you willingly work & live in another country ~ and know what kind of people that they are ~ why be surprised or appalled when an incident like this occurs?
Probably because of all the money, time, and American lives' that have been spent to keep The Saudi Princes' in power, and not in Saddam's dungeon...or in front of his Firing squad.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Religious police in Saudi Arabia arrest mother for sitting with a man:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece
Even though I believe that the law they're talking about here is completely ridiculous... You should still show respect for the laws of the host country (regardless of how idiotic they are). If she's already been living in that country for 8 years, I'm sure she's familiar enough with the separate seating arrangements required at the local starbucks.
This is pretty tame and insignificant compared to other abuses of women in Muslim nations. For example, this morning's NBC Today show told the story of an American soldier in Afghanistan who is organizing help for a 15 year old divorced woman who was abused by her elderly arranged marriage husband that she was forced to marry.
Because she would not properly "obey" her husband, he beat her into unconsciousness. When she woke up, she found that her head had been shaved, her nose had been cut off, and half of both of her ears had each been cut off too. His beating was so bad that he punched out 16 of her teeth, and he also badly burned both her hands and feet, injuring and scarring them as well.
This man faces no prosecution at all, as under conservative Muslim law, he had the right to punish his wife for disobedience and to divorce her. Of course, he left her so badly mutilated that it will now be about impossible for the 15 yr old girl to ever marry again. She now faces a life of becoming a beggar in Afghan society, unless she gets help.
Anyway, the American soldier is raising money to help her, and make sure she gets good medical care, and hopefully also get dentures, and even some plastic surgery.
The news story can be seen online here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23048241#23048241
This might be a good cause to donate money to.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329605,00.html
"Two weeks before Yara, an American businesswoman, was arrested by Saudi Arabia's religious police for sitting with a male colleague at Starbucks, she said she strolled past the very same cafe with another businessman: Neil Bush."
"Yara's crime: sitting with a male business partner in the "family-only" section of the Starbucks -- the only area of the café where women and men can sit together. In Saudi Arabia, public contact between unrelated men and women is strictly prohibited."
This woman knew the laws and violated them. No matter how much you disagree with the law, she screwed up.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329605,00.html
"Two weeks before Yara, an American businesswoman, was arrested by Saudi Arabia's religious police for sitting with a male colleague at Starbucks, she said she strolled past the very same cafe with another businessman: Neil Bush."
"Yara's crime: sitting with a male business partner in the "family-only" section of the Starbucks -- the only area of the café where women and men can sit together. In Saudi Arabia, public contact between unrelated men and women is strictly prohibited."
This woman knew the laws and violated them. No matter how much you disagree with the law, she screwed up.
Mickey, in this case, I believe that what the argument is here, is as to the validity of the law...or the regime upholding it.
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From Dr. King's Birmingham Jail letter:
There are just laws and there are unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that an unjust law is no law at all... One who breaks an unjust law must do it openly, lovingly...I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for law.
Sadly, I don't think this tactic would work in Saudi Arabia. I believe their community has very little conscience.
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I don't think so either.
Any effort to bring attention to the laws regarding their treatment of women over there will be best received if they're put forth by a man, for one thing... not ever by women.
I'm always thankful for my husband, who treats me as good as gold. I can't imagine being treated the way that those women over there are treated.
Would be nice to see things change for the better for them. Don't see it anytime soon though.
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Originally posted by texasmom
I don't think so either.
Any effort to bring attention to the laws regarding their treatment of women over there will be best received if they're put forth by a man, for one thing... not ever by women.
I'm always thankful for my husband, who treats me as good as gold. I can't imagine being treated the way that those women over there are treated.
Would be nice to see things change for the better for them. Don't see it anytime soon though.
With their strict adherence to Islam, It would probably take a(n) U.S. military intervention, Along with replacing their whole constitution and form of Gov't. Which won't happen, either.
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In another...but similar ballpark, an Iranian now faces execution for the crime of drinking.....3 times!
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There's another topic that speaks about Shiria law becoming a big part of the U.K. way of life. It's an interesting read to say the least.
Wouldn't be suprised for that type of thinking to make its way here soon.
In that way this woman is screwed. Whether we agree or not with their backward bellybutton way of doing things and treating thier women like ****...it is something she should have been more aware of.
I feel sorry for the direction this world is moving...and the quickness in which it's happening.
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No Human is Illegal!
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What about that case a few days ago where a British man went to jail for 4 years in Dubai because they found 0.003 grams of weed stuck to the bottom of his shoe? It's microscopical amount that you can't see with bare eye.
4 years for stepping accidentaly on a trace of dope. :aok
I wonder why the hell people go there anyway.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329605,00.html
"Two weeks before Yara, an American businesswoman, was arrested by Saudi Arabia's religious police for sitting with a male colleague at Starbucks, she said she strolled past the very same cafe with another businessman: Neil Bush."
"Yara's crime: sitting with a male business partner in the "family-only" section of the Starbucks -- the only area of the café where women and men can sit together. In Saudi Arabia, public contact between unrelated men and women is strictly prohibited."
This woman knew the laws and violated them. No matter how much you disagree with the law, she screwed up.
German Jews knew the Laws and screwed up to right? According to your calculations? Black Americans who sat in the white part of the Diner 60 years ago also knew the Laws and are at fault right?
I think the point we are making is that when the Laws are so unfair and inhuman then they really aren't laws and are instead tools of tyranny. The Saudis are a bunch of unwashed savages. Even most A-rabs dont like them. Man it just galls me that we have spent so much American blood protecting these mutts.
18 months service in that region but you'll never get me back there I dont care how much $ is to be had.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
German Jews knew the Laws and screwed up to right? According to your calculations? Black Americans who sat in the white part of the Diner 60 years ago also knew the Laws and are at fault right?
I think the point we are making is that when the Laws are so unfair and inhuman then they really aren't laws and are instead tools of tyranny. The Saudis are a bunch of unwashed savages. Even most A-rabs dont like them. Man it just galls me that we have spent so much American blood protecting these mutts.
18 months service in that region but you'll never get me back there I dont care how much $ is to be had.
Not a valid comparison Rich. When you're speaking of black & the jews, you're talking about people having those discriminations forced upon them. The woman spoken about here is an american citizen who is living abroad in that country of her own free choice. She could leave at any time, and chooses to stay.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Not a valid comparison Rich. When you're speaking of black & the jews, you're talking about people having those discriminations forced upon them. The woman spoken about here is an american citizen who is living abroad in that country of her own free choice. She could leave at any time, and chooses to stay.
...Texasmom, that really isn't in the same context. Because (a.) It could be said that Rosa Parks, or Martin Luther King jr. were free to go live in someplace like Liberia, If you use that reasoning. Lots' of Jews' fled Germany, as well. This woman was in Saudi Arabia as a part of her employment. I'm sure she could have left. It probably would have been without a job. And (b.) It said she was an American? As in American citizen? If this had been 1908, Teddy Roosevelt would have had Marines' storm the jail to free her; In 2008, she's marooned by political expediency. It's so damn sad, to see what we've come to...
It's been the western world that has brought them off of riding camels, to riding in Benz's. From sleeping in tents' in wadi's, to Air-conditioned palaces. From being a bunch of wandering nomad tribes, to being an influential and recognized nation. You would think they might show a little respect for the way we do things. Like we do for them, when they visit our country.
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
...Texasmom, that really isn't in the same context. Because (a.) It could be said that Rosa Parks, or Martin Luther King jr. were free to go live in someplace like Liberia, If you use that reasoning. Lots' of Jews' fled Germany, as well. This woman was in Saudi Arabia as a part of her employment. I'm sure she could have left. It probably would have been without a job. And (b.) It said she was an American? As in American citizen? If this had been 1908, Teddy Roosevelt would have had Marines' storm the jail to free her; In 2008, she's marooned by political expediency. It's so damn sad, to see what we've come to...
It's been the western world that has brought them off of riding camels, to riding in Benz's. From sleeping in tents' in wadi's, to Air-conditioned palaces. From being a bunch of wandering nomad tribes, to being an influential and recognized nation. You would think they might show a little respect for the way we do things. Like we do for them, when they visit our country.
Not really. Rosa Parks & Martin Luther King were battling against injustices within their own country. Could they have been free to move to Liberia? Sure. Is it a good comparison? No.
This gal is there for 8 years, working of her own free will in another country. Eight years is long enough to see how they operate, know their laws & choose whether or not she wants to live like a barbarian. Choice was obviously yes, otherwise she would have left before 8 years time.
"Like we do for them?" You mean, in the way she abided by their law of separate seating?
No, for her I don't feel badly at all.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Not a valid comparison Rich. When you're speaking of black & the jews, you're talking about people having those discriminations forced upon them. The woman spoken about here is an american citizen who is living abroad in that country of her own free choice. She could leave at any time, and chooses to stay.
It is most certainly a valid comparison. Just because something is written into Law doesnt make it right. Whether she is free to leave or not has nothing to do with it.
I lived in a Muslim nation. When the Saudis allowed her into the country she was given the status of "guest". And guests should not be treated like that. Nobody should be treated like that. Their Laws are as draconian and hateful as any in history. Their religious Police are simply a gang of religious zealots of the same order we are supposed to be fighting.
How would any of you like it if your wives, mothers, or sisters went to a foreign country and were treated like this? And for what? Sitting with males in a coffee shop? Are you kidding me?
And I'll tellya something else if anyone thinks she wasnt singled out because she was American I'll bet your wrong. These religious Police do what they want when they want and get away with it.
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Yeah, that's all true. I'm looking strictly from the smaller standpoint of: she had a choice to put herself in that bad situation or not; and she chose to do so instead of not.
You're looking at it from the broader standpoint of: it should never be a situation like that to begin with.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Yeah, that's all true. I'm looking strictly from the smaller standpoint of: she had a choice to put herself in that bad situation or not; and she chose to do so instead of not.
You're looking at it from the broader standpoint of: it should never be a situation like that to begin with.
I'll bet 99% of the time woman are warned first. Her luck was she ran into an especially demented band of religious morons who probably wanted to make an example of Americans. Youv probably never lived in these kinda place while I have. They are all corrupt and the Police and military can basically do what they want with no repercussions.
Yaknow its really kind of strange a woman would make the statement you did. Do you think rape victims are guilty of putting themselves in situations?
Go to one of these manure pile countries, get the "your livestock treatment", and then come back and tell me she, "put herself in a bad situation".
I myself despise the Saudis. Frankly the thought of them abusing a woman like that makes me want to put the boots to these religious police. Or whatever the hell these fanatics call themselves.
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Everyone who goes there is guilty of going there. Asking for trouble basically.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Everyone who goes there is guilty of going there. Asking for trouble basically.
True.
I have to wonder if this woman was stupid, thumbing her nose at local custom, or had a lapse in judgement.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Everyone who goes there is guilty of going there. Asking for trouble basically.
Yeah, especially those that have to choose between unemployment and going to Saudi Arabia.:rolleyes:
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Rich, I'm not saying that their treatment of women is acceptable or excusable in any way, shape, or form. I am saying that if she already lived there for 8 years, she is already very aware that nobody values her life in that place (or the life of any woman)... and it's not at all wise for her to believe that she'd be treated well only because she's not one of their own "born & raised" gals.
It's not anywhere close to comparing a rape victim to her. As harsh as it sounds, she did indeed place herself in a position which opens the door for personal abuse. I'm just amazed it took 8 years.
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It's kind of like a woman deciding to go work for a Brothel, and becoming offended because someone offered her money for sex...
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Did you read the link I posted about Dubai customs putting a british man to jail for 4 years? For stepping on a microscopical trace of marihuana which they found in the bottom of his shoe?
Basically if someone was smoking a joint in the airport toilet and droped a bit (so small you can't see it) on the floor and this guy visited that toilet and got the piece stuck to his shoe..
Linky (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23436226-details/Briton+jailed+in+Dubai+after+officials+find+cannabis+weighing+less+than+a+grain+of+sugar+under+his+shoe/article.do)
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Mom, this is the same forum that blew off the rape and detainment of an american woman by KBR employees.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Rich, I'm not saying that their treatment of women is acceptable or excusable in any way, shape, or form. I am saying that if she already lived there for 8 years, she is already very aware that nobody values her life in that place (or the life of any woman)... and it's not at all wise for her to believe that she'd be treated well only because she's not one of their own "born & raised" gals.
It's not anywhere close to comparing a rape victim to her. As harsh as it sounds, she did indeed place herself in a position which opens the door for personal abuse. I'm just amazed it took 8 years.
Mom Im not all that surprised by some of the answers by the young guys here. Until age gives them some wisdom they will continue to be influenced by the cultural and media mindscrew that woman are h'oes, sexual objects, and always "ask for" the trouble they find. Also they have been dehumanized by the nonstop media violence they are bombarded with.
But some of the answers coming from you? You should know better!
For 8 years she probably sat in the same coffee shop with men, "oh the horror", and observed others doing the same. Your making assumptions on her state of mind at the time even tho you have no facts on hand. Were not talking about a woman that keeps going back to the same man who has beat her in the past ; Were talking about a woman who wants to drink coffee in a coffee shop. Did it ever occur to you that she is not wrong at all and that the Saudis are simply a barbaric people?
A Saudi "born and raised girl" is simply a possession. An object! A prized piece of livestock that daddy will trade for the right $$ amount or to increase his tribal standing. Or the horror that this western woman should think she was ever different.
And a good thing for her she didn't have a crucifix showing or she would have really gotten a beating and a long jail sentence. Practicing other religions isn't allowed in Saudi Arabia. Just imagine if we beat and jailed people for practicing Islam here? We'd run out of ATA missiles in a week shooting down demented rag head terrorists aiming 747s at out buildings.
"""It's not anywhere close to comparing a rape victim to her. As harsh as it sounds, she did indeed place herself in a position which opens the door for personal abuse. I'm just amazed it took 8 years.""""
This statement contradicts itself. And frankly sounds as insensitive as some of the comments by the guys here. I guess if it was your daughter you would feel different about it.
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Originally posted by texasmom
Not really. Rosa Parks & Martin Luther King were battling against injustices within their own country. Could they have been free to move to Liberia? Sure. Is it a good comparison? No.
This gal is there for 8 years, working of her own free will in another country. Eight years is long enough to see how they operate, know their laws & choose whether or not she wants to live like a barbarian. Choice was obviously yes, otherwise she would have left before 8 years time.
"Like we do for them?" You mean, in the way she abided by their law of separate seating?
No, for her I don't feel badly at all.
Your comments here are absolutely ridiculous. What difference does it make that the woman is an American woman or a Saudi national? They are both still a woman, aren't they? They are both still human beings. Are you saying that people in general all over the world don't deserve to have basic human rights and dignity?
Or do you think that such basic rights only belong to those living in more affluent and industrialized nations?
What about all of the Saudi women who cannot leave? What about all of the thousands of destitute women from Asia that the Saudis have imported to do domestic work there? They have only come to work in Saudi Arabia because they cannot find any work in their depressed Asian countries like the Philippines.
I cannot believe that any woman would make such a highly insensitive comment on such a subject about the mistreatment of another woman.
It is too bad that you yourself could not live a few years in a fundamentalist Islamic state. Or even just in a third world poverty stricken nation. Perhaps then you would feel more compassion for women being abused in such nations.
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I think you're being a little harsh, I can see TxMom's point. It may well be so that she has enjoyed coffee with her colleagues at the coffee shop that way for years, but the fact still remains she probably did so knowing she was breaking the law. While I agree the treatment was harsh and unjust and the law is draconian, the woman is still subject to the same laws as everyone else.
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Originally posted by SD67
I think you're being a little harsh, I can see TxMom's point. It may well be so that she has enjoyed coffee with her colleagues at the coffee shop that way for years, but the fact still remains she probably did so knowing she was breaking the law. While I agree the treatment was harsh and unjust and the law is draconian, the woman is still subject to the same laws as everyone else.
Well, but Islam was founded way back in the 7th Century. The rest of the world has evolved another 14 centuries. Women, even in the most modern nations, have not had voting rights yet for an entire century at this point. And women have become leaders of even democratic nations only very recently, in terms of historical perspective.
This whole issue to me is one of the things that upsets me the most about Bush's fiasco in Iraq. Not only has this war wasted countless lives and bankrupt our government, and now driven our economy into a deep recession, but it has made the lives of Iraqi women far worse.
Under Saddam, Iraq had a completely secular government, where women enjoyed many of the same rights as women in many western nations. Now they are facing the prospect of their rights being lowered down to the level that women have in many other Muslim nations.
Just look at the reports out of Basra this past week, of women being beaten and murdered for doing things like wearing lipstick, wearing eye makeup, and not wearing a scarf to cover their hair. Signs are being put up all over the city by Islamic vigilantes, warning women to obey Sharia law or face the consequences.
The exact same thing will happen once we start turning areas over to Iraqi control.
If I was a woman living in Iraq, I would curse America every day of my life.
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Yeah, you're right. My comments about her are pretty insensistive to her plight. Doesn't make them any less true though.
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I see texasmoms point too. She is in another country. It is a barbaric one with a barbaric religion but that is the reality of it. We should ban all travel to said countries with their 9th century religion if we don't want to live like the savages do.
If they do it here we put em in prison. they have to obey our laws not some religion stuck in the ninth century.
lazs
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Originally posted by texasmom
You should still show respect for the laws of the host country (regardless of how idiotic they are).
No we should not...we should support any "woman's movement" in any islamic facist nation.