Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: CAP1 on February 08, 2008, 05:37:39 PM
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hey all.......... first off, i apologize for the kind of long post to follow..........was just messing around a little in the offline practice flyin the pony. it seems to be fairly responsive, and i was thinking about trying it this tour, as part of my path outta the dweeb rides(although igf i need an ego boost, i'll run right back to them for a bit!)
a few questions though.....it feels as though she'd make a nice turnfighter, but i never see anyone in the arenas flying her that way? i prefer turnfighting to e fighting or b-n-z'ing.......
i like the flaps comming out at 250....they seem to help a lot..and very nice visibility........
but now a couple technical questions....
1)one of the older guys in our radio control club flew ponys during the war, and a bunch of us were talking to him about it. one of the "quirks" he mentioned about the pony was the fuel tanks....he said that they always had to burn off the fuselage tank first, as she was tail heavy otherwise(and i thought i read this somewhere too). is the pony modeled this way in here? if so, how do i manually switch tanks to burn that one off first?(i've never had to worry about it in my dweeb rides....helll..the zeke can have full fuel and a drop tank and still outturn anything for the most part...or i died way too quickly to have time to worry about it).
2)we(me in particular since i fly this sim) were asking him about the gunsight, and how they used it to judge(guess?) the distance.....he had told us that they needed to know the approximate wingspan and length of the enemy plane, and they would go by how large it was compared to the reticle in the sight. if i remember correctly he had said that played a littel in how they judged their lead too(besides experience). i ask this one because where my hurri, simply has dot i think.....and my zeke has an X stood upright, the pony has a rather nice looking sight with tick marks on it, and a couple of angled lines too.....so...is there something to learn about these sights that can help me improve myself ingame?
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Originally posted by CAP1
hey all.......... first off, i apologize for the kind of long post to follow..........was just messing around a little in the offline practice flyin the pony. it seems to be fairly responsive, and i was thinking about trying it this tour, as part of my path outta the dweeb rides(although igf i need an ego boost, i'll run right back to them for a bit!)
a few questions though.....it feels as though she'd make a nice turnfighter, but i never see anyone in the arenas flying her that way? i prefer turnfighting to e fighting or b-n-z'ing.......
i like the flaps comming out at 250....they seem to help a lot..and very nice visibility........
but now a couple technical questions....
1)one of the older guys in our radio control club flew ponys during the war, and a bunch of us were talking to him about it. one of the "quirks" he mentioned about the pony was the fuel tanks....he said that they always had to burn off the fuselage tank first, as she was tail heavy otherwise(and i thought i read this somewhere too). is the pony modeled this way in here? if so, how do i manually switch tanks to burn that one off first?(i've never had to worry about it in my dweeb rides....helll..the zeke can have full fuel and a drop tank and still outturn anything for the most part...or i died way too quickly to have time to worry about it).
2)we(me in particular since i fly this sim) were asking him about the gunsight, and how they used it to judge(guess?) the distance.....he had told us that they needed to know the approximate wingspan and length of the enemy plane, and they would go by how large it was compared to the reticle in the sight. if i remember correctly he had said that played a littel in how they judged their lead too(besides experience). i ask this one because where my hurri, simply has dot i think.....and my zeke has an X stood upright, the pony has a rather nice looking sight with tick marks on it, and a couple of angled lines too.....so...is there something to learn about these sights that can help me improve myself ingame?
The only times you want to turn fight the pony is at high speeds. Its the best, or atleast very very close to being the best, at high speed turns, especially since it's first flap comes out at 400. Slow to medium speed turns you really want to avoid as the pony is not the best turner in the game at all, and it has a very hard time replacing lost E through poor acceleration and climb. The pony does hold E very well though, and with use of vertical turns and utilizing angles you can turn with better turning opponents, but if you don't make something happen and it turns into a slow speed "pull back on the stick 'till you have a shot" kinda thing you're finished.
The pony is hampered by its aux (I think thats the one) fuel tank, the one in the fueselage. It doesn't become a problem until you load 75% fuel, which is a lot for the pony, and even then you have like 5 minutes of burn until it's gone. The game automatically burns it first for you anyway so its not much of a problem. Only time you have to worry is when you load 100%, and if you do that, I'm thinking you would easy burn it down before you engage anyway if you are needing that much fuel.
Can't really help you much with the sight. I use a simple dot and no tracers so I guess I have just built up a mental image of how much lead based on thier size and how many G's I'm pulling. Maybe someone else can help you with that.
If you have any questions about what I said go ahead and ask, I'm not sure if I explained that great or not.:aok
donkey
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i dont fly the pony very much, and i havnt used the defualt sight for the past 6 months so i forget wat it looks like. but the pony is a great stall fighter, especially the Pony B. i was in DA one time, doing 100MPH w/ flaps and i was trning horibly, but most planes would drop out of sky at 100MPH (am i correct?) its flaps are nice, and i was talking to zundap, and he was telling me to use the flaps wen i dive so i dont gain to much E and cant pull out of my dive. thats all i know about the pony, sorry!
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IIRC, the game automatically burns off the AUX tank before the wing tanks. Think the AUX only gets juice if you go over 50%. Your best option is to take 50% and DTs and drop one DT on take off. Then you can cruise or lighten your load and engage at your discretion.
To shift fuel tanks try SHIFT-F - that cycles between auto-select (white txt on gauge), and individual tanks (yellow on gauge). So it will cycle between Auto, AUX, Left and Right wing tanks, then Auto again etc. The auto-select will burn AUX first then alternate sips from each wing tank in turn to keep you balanced. If you switch to manual tank select, just remember to turn it back to auto or be ready to do lots of manual switching to keep wing tanks balanced. Also on manual select, the gauge only shows the fuel remaining in the selected tank.
Combat flaps will deploy at crazily high speeds - far too high IMO. IIRC, its over 350?? Dropping flaps at those speed wont help as you are limited by Gs anyway and only increase drag, which is not good given the poor acceleration qualities of the pony. Drop flaps when you come off the black-outs and start hearing stall buzzer. Flaps are useful for getting nose around/over/pulled back up when your getting too slow. Pull em back in as soon as you no longer need em. They induce drag and cost E.
As already mention the pony turns wickedly well at high speeds, more than a match for anything else in the air. The only prob is it doesn't have enough power to replace the lost speed from turning too hard, so this limits you to a few hard turns before you have to re-assess your next move. Keep her around 270 (+-10) and she'll treat you well. Set convergence in close and go hunting for the snapshots! Get out if it ain't going your way, as sustained turn contests is not its cup of tea. Make sure you leave your self enough speed or alt to be able to escape when required. Until you reach your failsafe point, push it hard and go hunting for them snapshots. The trick is to know when to cut your losses. Most wont expect you to be so aggressive in it, and you can often get them on the back foot pretty quickly, but you have to know if things are going your way in the first few turns or not.
And while the B pony can turn ever so slightly better than the D, the B lack of deck speed, only 4x50cals, and its natural high-altitude ability means its not the best option for a low furball turn-fest. The D is a much better low-alt option, IMO. Up high (above 12k) the B comes into its own and is a beast!
Here's a write up i did a while back:
http://www.my2cents.co.nz/AKUAG/TheVault_Files/P51Guide.aspx
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
The only times you want to turn fight the pony is at high speeds. Its the best, or atleast very very close to being the best, at high speed turns, especially since it's first flap comes out at 400. Slow to medium speed turns you really want to avoid as the pony is not the best turner in the game at all, and it has a very hard time replacing lost E through poor acceleration and climb. The pony does hold E very well though, and with use of vertical turns and utilizing angles you can turn with better turning opponents, but if you don't make something happen and it turns into a slow speed "pull back on the stick 'till you have a shot" kinda thing you're finished.
The pony is hampered by its aux (I think thats the one) fuel tank, the one in the fueselage. It doesn't become a problem until you load 75% fuel, which is a lot for the pony, and even then you have like 5 minutes of burn until it's gone. The game automatically burns it first for you anyway so its not much of a problem. Only time you have to worry is when you load 100%, and if you do that, I'm thinking you would easy burn it down before you engage anyway if you are needing that much fuel.
Can't really help you much with the sight. I use a simple dot and no tracers so I guess I have just built up a mental image of how much lead based on thier size and how many G's I'm pulling. Maybe someone else can help you with that.
If you have any questions about what I said go ahead and ask, I'm not sure if I explained that great or not.:aok
donkey
this is good.....at least i know the fuel won't be an issue........for the convergence, i re-set it from 450 to 350 in the offline, as i've been noticing that in my dweeb planes, i've been getting in much closer than i used to before shooting..used to be 450 and up i'd shoot.....lately i've been seeing rounds hit spread around on the target, then noted that i was within 300-400 or so.........you did explain it pretty well......and i thank you for that........as i'm soon to be on the dinner menu in an arena near you:aok :D
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The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.
As for targeting, (http://airmafia.com/aceshigh/targeting.htm) is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.
As for targeting, (http://airmafia.com/aceshigh/targeting.htm) is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.
Nice page there Fugitive. I put together a very similar page (using the same graphics interestingly enough) but yours is better than mine.
Mind if I put a link to your page on my web site? Will that page be around for the long haul?
!
-hb
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.
As for targeting, (http://airmafia.com/aceshigh/targeting.htm) is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.
very good explantion, and the pics help a lot...gives me something to try. another question though......the gunsight you show, you said the bogie is 300 yds out when he's in it.....is that the same for all the gunsights in ah? i still have the default one in the pony,but the other planes i've been flying have the sight that is a white circle, with a dot in the middle, two horizontal lines through the 3 and 9 oclocks, and 2 tick marks at 6 and 12.....but on all of these if i get the con within the circles, they're about 300 yds?
oh, one final thing..the simhq link in your page doesn't give me anything?
thanks!!
<>
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.
As for targeting, (http://airmafia.com/aceshigh/targeting.htm) is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.
Woah, nice page fugitive :aok ! Never knew about it, and it will help me greatly :).
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Originally posted by uberslet
i dont fly the pony very much, and i havnt used the defualt sight for the past 6 months so i forget wat it looks like. but the pony is a great stall fighter, especially the Pony B. i was in DA one time, doing 100MPH w/ flaps and i was trning horibly, but most planes would drop out of sky at 100MPH (am i correct?) its flaps are nice, and i was talking to zundap, and he was telling me to use the flaps wen i dive so i dont gain to much E and cant pull out of my dive. thats all i know about the pony, sorry!
well, i just flew the pony B in mid.........3 runs...1 death by b17, 1 disco, and one kill.....although i kinda sorta had to run to the ack to finish the guy.....i was trying to keep fast, and got 1 good snapshot on the guy..and i saw a few thingc come off his right wing......but then i let it get a little too slow, dove for speed/////and was surprised to see a spit9 staying on me as i was showing almost 500(by the red needle which i think is true?)..so i tried to chop throttle to turn figuring he wouldn't be able to match the turn.....he did though........he pretty much had me, and was tickling me at almost 1k out............it was a good fight<>if you're reading this you know who you are. anyway, it was kinda fun....not at all what i'm used to though....i'm wondering if i'm going to have to "re-learn" to be able to fly in the harder rides? and if staying in easy planes for so long was a mistake? or possibly there's a more intermediate ride i should step up to before the pony?
thanks for all of the info in here!!!!!
<>:aok
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Most of you know I am a 109 driver. But I have been experimenting with the p51D in stall fighting and low speed maneuvering.
The P51D can be and in my opinion a very good stall fighter. But one must use angles.
The main advantage is the combat flaps which do come out at 350 ish. or 400 not sure on the exact speed.
The secret is to use ONE and only ONE notch of flaps on your turns. When using this tactic make your turn vertically at about a 30 degeree oblique angle. Althout the pony turns excellant at hight speeds the turn radius at over 300 is larger than most "turny" planes.
By using one notch of flaps at the merge you can whip around in an oblique turn incredibly sharp and still hold E if you reel them in quick enough.
Once you have made 50% of the turn reel the flaps in immediatly. You only need the flaps to make the nose come around.
Use your superior speed to keep just enough seperation so that u can again deploy then to make your second turn. This can be done while diving away or going up.
This tactic allows you to remain fast but turn exceptionally sharp never allowing your contact to close enough for a shot but allowing you to continue close in platform shots.
Anyone can fly it a 400mph and go up to 5k and come back down. But what usually gets someone killed is trying to slow down enough to get a good kill shot. This is when you get caught.
But if you can remain at around 300 mph or so using only one notch of flaps for turning you will find that it seems like you are flying a spit.
If you do get caught and can not gain enough seperation before the con closes to guns range then roll out all the flaps put on web and turn that sucker. Use standard verticle moves. Roll over at the top. use verticle. It will work.
I think the pony is way understimated in its ability to stall fight.
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Just fly it fast....When in doubt...nose down and try to get away and regroup....Flaps help but aren't the beat all end all in the pony....learn to use that rudder better for shooting if you can.....angles are best...and scissors work well against similar airplanes.
Unfortunatley I fly it alot like the jug...whch leaves me dead most of the time.
IF you can fly that 38 (I remember you being not to bad in that thing) then the Pony will be a breeze for you to pick up.
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Originally posted by RedTop
IF you can fly that 38 then the Pony will be a breeze for you to pick up.
You think so? I mean I know they are best utilized in different roles (pony being best at high speeds and the 38 really has to do everything to be good because it doesn't do one thing good at all, but for all intent and purposes we'll say that it isn't the high speed monster the pony is (and it isn't)). I spent a lot of time in the pony and then made the transition to the 38, and for true dogfighting (were all of the fun is), I found that once over an initial curve, the 38 is much easier to dogfight in then the pony is.
Just thought that that is an interesting opinion, and not necessarily one that is wrong. :aok Care to explain??
donkey
PS: I pretty much butchered that paragraph in terms of run on sentences, etc. I suck...:cry Trying to express to many different thoughts.:D
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Originally posted by HomeBoy
Nice page there Fugitive. I put together a very similar page (using the same graphics interestingly enough) but yours is better than mine.
Mind if I put a link to your page on my web site? Will that page be around for the long haul?
!
-hb
Thanks, I made that page years ago when I took care of the site for the Mafia. When we made the switch from AWIII, I put as much info together as I could find to try and help the squad made it through the learning curve here at AH. The rest of the help page is (http://airmafia.com/aceshigh/AcesHigh.htm) . Mugz took over the care of the pages a couple of years ago, so I guess its got some "staying power" :D
As far as the size of the circle, you'll have to meassure your own sites. Test it off line, and crawl up behind one of the circling planes and try and center one up inside your site, and check the range.
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First of all, when we listen to agent360, he's talking about the k4, despite what he says.
:D
I'm just kidding. But here's my opinion. I said this to a squaddie the other day. The 109 is a NOSE UP fighter. It's climb rate will generally keep you at your optimal turning speed (and keep your enemy below his) if you make turns nose above the horizon. the pony is a NOSE DOWN fighter. Make sure that, if you do indeed have to turn, you are making low yoyos. The pony does not recover E quickly. Use your altitude to finish the fight early. If youre down to the deck and still havent gotten a shot yet, you're in trouble. The pony is a terrible horizontal stall fighter against any experienced pilot. Wait for friendlies, or gain enough separation that you feel you can low yoyo again, merge, and then win on the first few turns.
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yes i love going nose high in a nik with a pony on my six and watch him fall beneath my turn till i gain enough e to drop behind him for a shot,
usualy only works on suckers though.
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Hi Donkey,
Basically to me the 38 is like you said....doesn't do anything real well....but does everything. The combination of things make it very formidable in the right hands.
I think and this is just my opinion , that the 38 is harder to master than the pony. It's bigger and lumbering. GREAT flaps on the 38 but it compresses easier....stalls easier (IMO) and just is tougher to get the hang of.
So , with that said the pony just seemed easier o fly. Fast , decent guns , good high speed turns...but can be just a ROCK when not flwon right.
I think it is all just a matter of how much time one spends in what. I have flown the 38 quite a bit...and haven't learned it yet. The pony I have flown quite a bit...and just find it easier.
Basically is all I meant.....<> Bud
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Originally posted by Agent360
Most of you know I am a 109 driver. But I have been experimenting with the p51D in stall fighting and low speed maneuvering.
The P51D can be and in my opinion a very good stall fighter. But one must use angles.
The main advantage is the combat flaps which do come out at 350 ish. or 400 not sure on the exact speed.
The secret is to use ONE and only ONE notch of flaps on your turns. When using this tactic make your turn vertically at about a 30 degeree oblique angle. Althout the pony turns excellant at hight speeds the turn radius at over 300 is larger than most "turny" planes.
By using one notch of flaps at the merge you can whip around in an oblique turn incredibly sharp and still hold E if you reel them in quick enough.
Once you have made 50% of the turn reel the flaps in immediatly. You only need the flaps to make the nose come around.
Use your superior speed to keep just enough seperation so that u can again deploy then to make your second turn. This can be done while diving away or going up.
This tactic allows you to remain fast but turn exceptionally sharp never allowing your contact to close enough for a shot but allowing you to continue close in platform shots.
Anyone can fly it a 400mph and go up to 5k and come back down. But what usually gets someone killed is trying to slow down enough to get a good kill shot. This is when you get caught.
But if you can remain at around 300 mph or so using only one notch of flaps for turning you will find that it seems like you are flying a spit.
If you do get caught and can not gain enough seperation before the con closes to guns range then roll out all the flaps put on web and turn that sucker. Use standard verticle moves. Roll over at the top. use verticle. It will work.
I think the pony is way understimated in its ability to stall fight.
Thank you very much, been having a rough time with this plane.
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Originally posted by RedTop
Hi Donkey,
Basically to me the 38 is like you said....doesn't do anything real well....but does everything. The combination of things make it very formidable in the right hands.
I think and this is just my opinion , that the 38 is harder to master than the pony. It's bigger and lumbering. GREAT flaps on the 38 but it compresses easier....stalls easier (IMO) and just is tougher to get the hang of.
So , with that said the pony just seemed easier o fly. Fast , decent guns , good high speed turns...but can be just a ROCK when not flwon right.
I think it is all just a matter of how much time one spends in what. I have flown the 38 quite a bit...and haven't learned it yet. The pony I have flown quite a bit...and just find it easier.
Basically is all I meant.....<> Bud
rgr that. Guess I just had the image of one pilot fighting himself, one in a pony the other in the 38 and somehow saw the 38 guy winning. Nice response, .
donkey
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Originally posted by whiteman
Thank you very much, been having a rough time with this plane.
if the Blue arena has TT still you may want to check that out in a 51, you will lern it quickly, especially the .50's.
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Agent and I hit the DA for over an hour in the 51d tonight. We were getting pretty drunk, but I think learned/demonstrated a fair amount. Maybe i'll pass on the film tomorrow? k k cya
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
The pony is not known as a good turner low and slow, because its main strengths are in the "high and fast" areas, but it handles well as long as your smooth when low and slow. It certainly won't out turn an F4 or F6 if those are flown by a good pilot, but it will surprise and average pilot in them.
As for targeting, (http://airmafia.com/aceshigh/targeting.htm) is a page I put together years ago that explains the use of a site in targeting.
Very nice page Fug! Thanks. :aok
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Overall the pony is very pilot dependent in how U try and T&B it....
Basically most people evolve out of two schools of aircraft control as it relates to "dogfighting". Those that primarily evolve a linear view of the fight (focused primarily along there lift vector) think in terms of elevator authority{think spitty/hurricane driver}. As a general rule the pony doesnt respond particularly well to this style since it scrubs alot of E for relatively nominal gain.
The second major group is what I would call the "offset" style that actually relies very heavily on rudder authority to shape a fight {think 109/hog driver}. These pilots tend to view/manuever in the oblique with the con (and lift vector) offset to one FQ view or the other. This normally promotes a more vertical fight with rudder/roll controlled slashing attacks...this "rotation" vs turn pulls lower G's and allows high speed slashing reversals that mimic alot of the attributes of the "true T&B"
To fly the pony well in a T&B mode you need to be out of plane with your target since your normally inferior in a matched lift vector engagment. you need to diligently "fly the X" to reload E and work your rudder/throttle to bleed E as needed for snapshots while maintainng enough E to control the fight.
The downfall of most pony drivers is being to fast initially then getting to slow in frustration. Most good pony drivers "tighten" a fight quickly...using 1 or 2 passes to set the bogies speed and then shortening the upper leg of the next attack to hit the con with a 75/25 (rough speed differential) set of passes. The "pony ace" follows the aggresive pass with an even more aggresive one often catching the con by suprise.....but not sucumbing to a true T&B fight. Throttle & rudder is the key to the pony IMO...
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Humble, could you explain what “flying the x” is and how rudder/throttle are used to accomplish it?
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flying the "X" is using the semi verticals in a fight vs the pure vertical or horizontal. Basically its flying hi to low and low to high vs a flat turn or a loop. If we view the fight from the other guys perspective the guy on the X is normally out of plane to either a loop or a flat turn. If both planes are in plane in the horizontal (or vertical) then the fight is controlled by almost entirely by power/wingloading...one we get out of plane then other elements come into play. Even the slowest turing plane can role its lift vector (roughly the up to front up view) faster then the fastest plane can turn an equivelent arc of movement....so an aggressor flying out of plane in a hi yoyo can use roll to reorient his lift vector ahead of the flat turning bogy and then manage his shot window with rudder input...in addition the elevator authority is getting an assist from gravity as he goes over the top + he's slowing and conserving E vs just burning it in a flat turn...as he accelerates down into the shot the rudder/roll can act as a brake or move him from lag to lead pursuit or both...if his timing is off he can simply roll away from the con back to the vertical to reload and maintain control of the fight...
If we view thw ponies performance at typical AH altitudes vs either the spit XVI or La-7 (two typical opponents) the pony is "losing" every moment its in plane with either and pulling G's since it cant out turn or out accelerate either. By taking the fight "out of plane" the pony driver is attemting to make it a contest of ACM and not the planes inherent capabilities in a "dog fight". The out of plane manuevers make judging angle off, E state and angular gain much tougher then the in plane chase the other guys tail fight does and allows for greater creativity and aggressivess in ACM...
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Originally posted by humble
flying the "X" is using the semi verticals in a fight vs the pure vertical or horizontal. Basically its flying hi to low and low to high vs a flat turn or a loop. If we view the fight from the other guys perspective the guy on the X is normally out of plane to either a loop or a flat turn. If both planes are in plane in the horizontal (or vertical) then the fight is controlled by almost entirely by power/wingloading...one we get out of plane then other elements come into play. Even the slowest turing plane can role its lift vector (roughly the up to front up view) faster then the fastest plane can turn an equivelent arc of movement....so an aggressor flying out of plane in a hi yoyo can use roll to reorient his lift vector ahead of the flat turning bogy and then manage his shot window with rudder input...in addition the elevator authority is getting an assist from gravity as he goes over the top + he's slowing and conserving E vs just burning it in a flat turn...as he accelerates down into the shot the rudder/roll can act as a brake or move him from lag to lead pursuit or both...if his timing is off he can simply roll away from the con back to the vertical to reload and maintain control of the fight...
If we view thw ponies performance at typical AH altitudes vs either the spit XVI or La-7 (two typical opponents) the pony is "losing" every moment its in plane with either and pulling G's since it cant out turn or out accelerate either. By taking the fight "out of plane" the pony driver is attemting to make it a contest of ACM and not the planes inherent capabilities in a "dog fight". The out of plane manuevers make judging angle off, E state and angular gain much tougher then the in plane chase the other guys tail fight does and allows for greater creativity and aggressivess in ACM...
so what it sounds like you mean........is basicly flying lazy 8's, but at higher speed than they're taught in something like a cessna.........merge, pull slightly up, use the rudders to force a bit of roll, and since you're gonna bank just from that, that'll bring ya around faster than a simple flat turn......then repeat/rinse/modify as needed?
sorry if this sounds stupid, but i am one of those that you mentioned in an earlier post that tries to keep his lift vector on the bogie...and apparently this is a bad idea in the pony,
also....besides missing 2 guns...any disadvantage to the pony B?
thanks to ALL of you! from this info, i have actually earned a couple kils in the pony.
<>
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It's not flying a specific pattern per se, since you need to either react to or dictate the fight to the bogie. "Most" pilots either see a dogfight as a "flat" fight or as a looping fight....in reality often good tactics require a melding of both. you may need to slow or speed up to "corner" speed or may need to defend your 3/9 line from potential overshoot...all of which require going out of plane. Putting the lift vector on the bogie isnt always the right or wrong thing to do...but in a plane that bleeds E fast and turns relatively poorly its not normally the "correct" approach.
Now once your out of plane then any elevator authority will simply move your nose in plane with your lift vector...not the con. So from an out of plane position we need to 1st determine what type of pursuit (normally i'm out of plane in lag) angle to take...ideally you'll transition from lag to a course that will allow you to smoothly "pull" thru the bogies flight path from lag to lead as guns come to bear on the con. The major motion here is rolling the lift vector and the gun solution corrections are normally rudder controlled. The 109/hog (and many other) sticks live on these "rudder over" kill shots routinely defeating better turning planes by bringing roll and control surface authority (especially at higher speeds) into play. So while the con takes the long way from 1st thru 2nd to 3rd the guy flying the "X" flys to a point up above the pitchers mound and rolls his plane toward roughly 1st base...so he's watching the con then pulls on down thru toward shortstop or so with enough curve so he's flying down the base path coming in from above...if he gets the shot great...lets say he doesnt have the shot and the con breaks for home...the "X" drive pulls vertical before he hits 3rd (judgement on if you have the shot is important and rolls his plane AWAY from home plate so his lift vector is pointed down the outfield line....this allows him to then pull thru so he's flying right down the line from 3rd to home faster then if he tried to follow the con the other way....this type of a lag displacement roll is very effective as an offensive move here....until another friendly or con arrives you can rinse and repeat till you get it right...