Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sundowner on February 09, 2008, 10:25:59 AM
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Well, I made a trip to the credit union today and made my final car payment.
With this final payment all my outstanding debts are now paid in full!
My servitude to debt began in 1981 when I secured my first loan (manacle) for a Sanyo stereo system. For the last 27 years I have toiled under debt like most Americans.
As of today I have no car payments, credit card payments, house payments or installment payments of any kind.
All of my previous monthly payment amounts now go into our savings.
I've tried it both ways now: in debt and debt free.
I highly recommend freedom from debt to each and every one of you.
You won't believe the peace of mind you can have.
It's not easy (nothing worthwhile ever is).
But what you will get in return for your hard work is beyond words.
"The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is a servant to the lender." Proverbs 22:7
Today I declare my freedom!
Regards,
Sun
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Congratulations! That's something to be proud of! :D
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WTG! :)
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woohoo!!!!
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Money is liquid. I have no debt beyond mortgage but it's costing me under 4% and the same money makes me a far better return in other places. This "debt" is making me money. Most other debts do indeed cost more than they return but don't look at it as an absolute.
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Congradulations.
working towards the same goal myself.
As bad as credit cards can get. also try and stay away from overdraft protection. Even for business.
All too often the way you figure something will work ends up not working that way.
"Soon as I get the check I'll just pay it"
Then something comes up and you end up making payments.
Or you dont take into account the fees associated with it
First thing I learned is the first thing you have to do is stop the bleeding.
First thing I got rid of was the OD protection.
ONLY use credit cards for things that just arent practical to pay any other way. Or in DIRE emergancy.
Always make more then the minimum payment whenever possible.
Even if its only by $5
What I do when money is tight is round up to the nearest $10
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debt free is good! congrats.
o but wait you still have taxes too pay
property taxes,
federal taxes,
sales taxes,
school taxes,
sin taxes,
healthcare,
car insurance.
sorry, but you were having way to good of a time, had too wake you up. lol
really congrats. tho, it is a big step forward:aok
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Congratulations. I've got about 25-30 grand in student loans. I'm not too worried about them.
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Congrats. The best way to live life, IMO.
Our family believes less is more. We do quite nicely actually, and are debt free aside from a small and highly reasonable mortgage and my car payment, that I could pay off tomorrow if I wanted to. We could lease the Mercedes if we wanted to, but don't really mind the Hyundai. We are actually at the point today of building up more cash than we should. With the value of the dollar dropping that is worrisome and with the stock market volatile that is worrisome.
Charon
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Originally posted by WWhiskey
debt free is good! congrats.
o but wait you still have taxes too pay
property taxes,
federal taxes,
sales taxes,
school taxes,
sin taxes,
healthcare,
car insurance.
sorry, but you were having way to good of a time, had too wake you up. lol
really congrats. tho, it is a big step forward:aok
property taxes
I own no property! (rent)
Plan to buy for the first time in the future,but for now--nada.
federal taxes
With my single income and five dependents (exemptions) I owe no federal tax!
sales taxes
Cant argue there. If I buy I pay sales tax, but this is not a debt owed.
school taxes
Er..I'm not sure I understand this one. Checked my checkbook register and cant find an entry for that one.
sin taxes
I don't sin.
(J/K I don't play the lottery but I guess I pay a sin tax on the occasional beer I drink.:))
health care
Paid for by my employer!:aok
car insurance
Yup, I pay that...but thats like utilities and groceries..no debt.
Regards,
Sun
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WTG Sundowner. That is a great goal to reach.
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school taxes come with the property you look too own
and i was just playin wihth you anyhow lol <>
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Congrats Sundowner!
I got debt free just over 10 years ago. I will be debt free for the rest of my life. Most people never realise how fast your savings will grow as soon as you learn to never ever borrow for things you dont need and stay away from credit cards. I have friends who make more than me but have ALOT less just because its so easy to borrow to get a new car when the old one still works or a bigger house when the place you live is good enough :)
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Dam it...
House (Tents or Cardboard Boxes)
Kids with College Loans (Never Co Sign)
Cars (Ride bikes)
IRS (Will Someone Burn That Building?)
Credit Cards (Plastic is Evil)
When I die and am creamated they will take 21.5% of my ashes.
Mac
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Sell it all and and move to Canada.
The IRS cant get you there can they?
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WTG Sundowner, I did the same about a year ago and it feels great!
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Originally posted by WWhiskey
school taxes come with the property you look too own
and i was just playin wihth you anyhow lol <>
bud!
Regards,
Sun
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Mortgage and 2 car payments.....thats it for my wife and I.
No plastic....No loans....no other debts other than those. It's not debt free...but these days....It's WAY better than most.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Sell it all and and move to Canada.
The IRS cant get you there can they?
The IRS is GOD. They can get you anywhere.
OK. the IRS isnt god.
But it sure thinks it is.
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Wow :O , you can pay for yourself. I am impressed.
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Originally posted by Sundowner
"The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is a servant to the lender." Proverbs 22:7
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Mark 10:24-26
:D
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Originally posted by REP0MAN
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Mark 10:24-26
:D
thats easy enough. as long as you have access to a good grinder.
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Originally posted by REP0MAN
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Mark 10:24-26
:D
Does the bible really say that?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Does the bible really say that?
Indeed it does. Interesting ain't it. What do you think it means?
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That the bible isn't really God's word and that the people controlling religion don't want the people to ever want to be rich or work hard.
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Really, I always thought it to mean that more often than not, the love of money was the source that caused the wealth... and that the love of money being greater than the love of God causes disobedience to his instructions.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
That the bible isn't really God's word and that the people controlling religion don't want the people to ever want to be rich or work hard.
I don't think it means that. Do you really think that people controlling religion don't want "the people" to work hard? Can you explain why?
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That's possible. But then consider that the greatest threat to religion, or even power for that matter, is the success of a man (or woman) who does the best that he can. It's the man who does not need to rely on religion (or the powerful) to be a good person in this world (or the next).
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You should realize laser that the person who said those words was not a leader of organized relgion in his day. He was in fact persecuted and murdered by those religious leaders.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I don't think it means that. Do you really think that people controlling religion don't want "the people" to work hard? Can you explain why?
The reason lies in the 10th commandment.
Do not covet your neighbor's house (wife). A person would begin to desire his neighbor's stuff when the neighbor has better things.
Thus, this commandment basically reads "Do not want more." It is written that you should not want more because you only have what God has given you. If god hasn't given you more already, then he does not want you to have more.
From that, if you shouldn't want more, then there is no need to succeed. According to the people who have listed these commandments and are in control of the religion, you merely need to exist.
Originally posted by AKIron
You should realize laser that the person who said those words was not a leader of organized relgion in his day. He was in fact persecuted and murdered by those religious leaders.
You should also realize that we have no evidence of what Jesus Christ said, except for that which those in power tell us he has said.
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I disagree laser. There is a difference between wanting more and wanting to take what someone else has. Being prosperous does not automatically mean someone else must lose. Unless you believe that we have fully exploited our environment and share the lament of past others that there is nothing left to invent.
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Congratulations on your new status as a "private debt" free American.
We wish to applauded your fortitude and dedication to your new debt free lifestyle.
To become truly debt free please enclose a check for $30,445 to pay your portion of the public debt which we have thoughtfully pre spent for you.
The same amount is required of your wife, if you are married (a total amount of $60,890) would need to be enclosed.
Oh, hehehe, We forgot each child also owes this same amount, add an additional $30,445 for each child.
Please pay this amount as quickly as you can as each person in your household accrues an additional $276 each month as interest on the debt.
Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
Department of Internal Revenue service
Just messing with ya bud ;) congratulations on your new and better way of life.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You should also realize that we have no evidence of what Jesus Christ said, except for that which those in power tell us he has said.
I don't agree that we have no evidence. I will agree that the evidence is not sufficient to convince without faith.
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Originally posted by AKIron
I disagree laser. There is a difference between wanting more and wanting to take what someone else has. Being prosperous does not automatically mean someone else must lose. Unless you believe that we have fully exploited our environment and share the lament of past others that there is nothing left to invent.
To want more is to recognize that someone else has something better. You can't want more if you don't know what you want.
Besides, the 10 Commandments already separately list "Do not steal." So they've already addressed that you should not TAKE what is not yours.
But to issue a decree that WANTING more is evil?
Originally posted by AKIron
I don't agree that we have no evidence. I will agree that the evidence is not sufficient to convince without faith.
It's not that we have no evidence. It's that the only evidence we have comes from those who demand obedience.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
To want more is to recognize that someone else has something better. You can't want more if you don't know what you want.
Besides, the 10 Commandments already separately list "Do not steal." So they've already addressed that you should not TAKE what is not yours.
But to issue a decree that WANTING more is evil?
To covet means specifically to want what someone else has. Not something like what someone else has.
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Congrats. :)
I've got nothing but a mortgage.
I'm feeling pretty good about that.
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Here's an example of what is not coveting.
A son or daughter enjoys a loving family with a mother and father who love and care for each other, and to get back on topic, are debt free.
The son and/or daughter grow up wanting the same type of relationship. That is not covetous.
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A step back towards the original topic...
Remember, one of the biggest differences between wealthy people and everyone else is that wealthy people know how to use money properly, and everyone else does not (or chooses not to).
There is a book, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" that explains a lot of this stuff, including why kids of well off parents tend to remain well off. It's not necessarily because of their parent's actual wealth, rather it's because they are brought up with a specific attitude about money that leads to a lifestyle of "using" money for generic personal gain, rather than simply viewing money as something used only to buy stuff.
I got lucky... My parents raised me to view most non-essential debt as a bad thing, and also to view money as a resource as opposed to something I simply hand over to salespeople. I did just fine without my parent's forking over cash to me, and I've been very careful about debt for my whole life. Yes I used to make big purchases on a credit card, but they'd get paid off almost immediately. Very large items such as my first new car and my first house were bought with traditional loans, but I paid them off far earlier than the loan terms dictated at the same time I maxed out my yearly IRA contribution. The tradeoff was that for maybe 8 years after I started receiving a regular paycheck, I didn't have a nice TV or in fact anything else that was super nice except for a computer (duh) and a car I bought after nearly 6 years in the AF. But I have never ever had to make a tough decision because I didn't have enough money. If it was a necessity, it was budgeted for and prioritized over luxuries. If I didn't really need something and didn't quite have enough money to buy it, I usually put the money for that item into some sort of investment or interest earning savings account. By the time I could afford the item, I usually didn't want it anymore so I ended up with a nice emergency fund that went as the down payment on my first house.
The point is that although being out of debt is a great first step, the next step towards financial comfort (not necessarily wealth, but comfort) is to learn how to USE money. And the best way to start IMHO is to start up one of those automatic contribution retirement accounts. Many places will let you start with as little as $200 up front and $50-$100 per month automatic contribution, which is little more than beer/pizza money for most people. Give up something you don't need, and start putting some money away in a roth IRA or other investment/savings account. You'll learn a lot while managing the account even if it isn't very big at first, and if you're not greedy you'll have more money down the road that you didn't have to work as hard to earn.
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But throughout the different branches of Christianity and Judaism, "Covet" is not the only word used. Desire is also used.
But to get to your example, it is covetous. That relationship does not belong to the son or daughter. They had to go out into the world and get that relationship on their own.
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I met a random NCO at the barber shop, and somehow the topic of how much kids cost came up. He mentioned that he had 3 kids, and he was pretty young so I prepared myself to hear a story about how he was barely making ends, meet, etc. Instead, I was very pleasantly suprised when he started talking about all the smart things he and his wife were doing.
He hadn't gotten a big tv yet. He didn't have a gucci surround sound stereo. He was using hand-me-down furniture. He drove a reasonably nice car, but he bought it used. His wife had a new car, but it was a civic or something equally inexpensive but with good reliability. We had a great conversation and I found myself taking this guy's advice on ways to avoid wasting a lot of money getting ready to have a first child.
If he'd followed the typical pattern of join the military, immediately spend 3 years salary on a new car and tv/computer/electronics, get married a week later and then pop out 2 kids in 2 years, he'd still be on food stamps. Instead, he didn't seem to ever worry about money and he was looking forward to paying cash for an upcoming family vacation to disneyland.
I wish more people would show the same common sense this guy had.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
But throughout the different branches of Christianity and Judaism, "Covet" is not the only word used. Desire is also used.
But to get to your example, it is covetous. That relationship does not belong to the son or daughter. They had to go out into the world and get that relationship on their own.
Do you believe the commandment "Thou shalt not covet", one of old English versions, applies to the son or daughter seeking what their parents had? If you believe that the God of Moses would deny us seeking the happiness of our parents then you and I are having a serious inability to communicate.
I'd rather not participate in hijacking this thread further. If you want to continue this discussion I'll join you in another thread.
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That's a great way to live.
My car will be paid off this year. I'm working on refinancing the house, as I was stoooopid and got an Adjustable Rate in 2004. Needless to say, at 7% now, I'm eyeing the rates daily, waiting to pounce.
I just pulled a recent credit report and discovered some medical stuff in there that apparently insurance dropped and I was never sent a bill for. I called the Dr's office and that seems to be how they do things this way. No word from insurance in 7 days? Wham, off to a collection company (which, coincidentally, they also own...hmmm)
We had a chat here at the office about debt and what we would pay off, etc. I was simply floored how many people are hauling around credit cards with balances in the $5000 to $8000 range. Wholly! I hope they have some good interest rates, I just couldn't bring myself into putting myself into that much debt. I hated borrowing to buy cars, trying to minimize the loan by saving as much up front as I could. (But hey, sometimes cars implode before you can!)
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Originally posted by eagl
I wish more people would show the same common sense this guy had.
I really, really wish that the schools better prepared us youths for the responsibility of credit cards. Knowing how important credit is, living within your means and budgeting would've have been an excellent heads-up before getting hit with pre-approved Citibank cards at graduation :)
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Sorry for the hijack Sundowner. Congrats on getting free.
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Originally posted by eagl
And the best way to start IMHO is to start up one of those automatic contribution retirement accounts. Many places will let you start with as little as $200 up front and $50-$100 per month automatic contribution, which is little more than beer/pizza money for most people. Give up something you don't need, and start putting some money away in a roth IRA or other investment/savings account. You'll learn a lot while managing the account even if it isn't very big at first, and if you're not greedy you'll have more money down the road that you didn't have to work as hard to earn.
That's superb advice that requires some discipline.
My Dad advised me to put my raises into larger 401k, or Roth IRA deposits. At first, I thought "No way, I FINALLY got a raise, I can finally afford (this, that)!" But I thought more about what he said. And my supervisor at another job had much the same approach. He was getting ready to retire and did the same approach. Suffice to say, he had a superb nest-egg so I could retire a bit earlier and enjoy life.
It takes a while to see results but after a few years of this, when the quarterly 401k statements come out, its amazing to see the gains.
Eagl, guys like you in the military are some lucky to be there. Medical costs after retiring are going to be outstanding for us non-military types.
Plan now.
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Originally posted by RedTop
Mortgage and 2 car payments.....thats it for my wife and I.
No plastic....No loans....no other debts other than those. It's not debt free...but these days....It's WAY better than most.
i think that's pretty normal actually, if you added 10k of credit cards on it.. not smart, but normal.
2 car payments.. ouch! borrowing money to pay for things that go down in value? :rolleyes:
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Sun, Congrats bud!
I'm working hard to do the same thing.
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Thanks for the positive responses from all!
And Iron, hey bud..no hijack perceived on this end. Sometimes conversations just normally branch off into other directions. sir. :)
Also, the best of luck and success to all those working towards similar goals and congrats to those that have made it.
Regards,
Sun
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Me too dude, as of last Friday. Feels great eh? :)
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Originally posted by Tumor
Me too dude, as of last Friday. Feels great eh? :)
:aok
Regards,
Sun
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congrats.. The only real debt I have ever had all my life is home ownership.. I insist on owning a home tho.. I do not want to be at the mercy of a landlord... ever..
I think I have 4 payments left on my Lincoln but they were never really high.
I carry between nothing and a grand in credit card debt...
My home will be payed off or I will sell it to buy paid off property.. I will have a septic and a well and some sort of solar electric with backup.
What is going to kill all of us.. renters included is... the EPA.. it will mean sewer bills in the hundreds of dollars a month and garbage bills running a hundred or so.. water the same.. there will also be a storm water bill coming soon.. it will start out bigger than you will expect.
I am on prop 13 which means.. so long as I live here my property tax can't go up and.. it is very low but the other things will go up.. I will sell and be more self sufficient until I die or you guys get up the stones to tell the EPA to go screw itself.
lazs
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You rent? Why? I know this may sound silly, but...
Why not take out an interest only loan for a small home? Prices are down and real estate always goes back up. But the great thing is, the whole payment is tax deductable, that's right, write it off. Let's say you spend $1500.00 a month on an interest only loan. That's 18k right off the top! If you make 50k that year, it knocks it down to 32k tax income before any other deductions. On top of that you have a piece of property that WILL go up in value. It's a great time to buy and you will save money as well as invest it. Renting you are throwing money away, not saving it.
When I bought my home the first few years were almost all interest and I got to write it all off, it saves you alot of money.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
You rent? Why? I know this may sound silly, but...
Why not take out an interest only loan for a small home? Prices are down and real estate always goes back up. But the great thing is, the whole payment is tax deductable, that's right, write it off. Let's say you spend $1500.00 a month on an interest only loan. That's 18k right off the top! If you make 50k that year, it knocks it down to 32k tax income before any other deductions. On top of that you have a piece of property that WILL go up in value. It's a great time to buy and you will save money as well as invest it. Renting you are throwing money away, not saving it.
When I bought my home the first few years were almost all interest and I got to write it all off, it saves you alot of money.
Because (you won't believe this) my rent is only $400/month. Yes, it's not the greatest house but it's a 3 bedroom in the city. The husband of the couple I started out renting this house from in 1988 passed away a few years after we moved in and she never raised the rent over the years.
This circumstance makes our situation an exception to the rule in terms of renting verses buying.
($1500/month-$400/month =$1100/month extra I would have to expend in order to buy.)
The city is expanding the school system near this property and I expect it will be bought soon (by the city) to make room for the new school. This is one of the reasons I have worked to become debt free: in order to afford those high house payments you mentioned. hehe
Raising four children on one income with low rent always gave me incentive not to double or triple my housing costs by buying a house and forcing my wife to go to work. ;)
We always liked the idea of Mom home with the kids instead of daycare or babysitter.
Regards,
Sun
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Ahh, I see, well, keep in mind that prices are low and you have alot of options. Good luck!
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Ahh, I see, well, keep in mind that prices are low and you have alot of options. Good luck!
Thanks, sir.
We're gearing up to be first time buyers and it looks like it's becoming more and more of a buyer's market.
Regards,
Sun
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Originally posted by LePaul
Eagl, guys like you in the military are some lucky to be there. Medical costs after retiring are going to be outstanding for us non-military types.
The whole getting shot at thing is a bit of a deterrent, as is the fact that if you quit even one day before the 20 year point, you get NOTHING... Not even a way to buy into any coverage.
But yea, if you stick out the full 20 years, it's a good retirement. But it's not anywhere near the best retirement I've seen. The California Highway Patrol has the hands-down best retirement plan I've ever seen. They have a really robust pension fund (fully funded and the state can't touch it) so the retirees will never get cut off, and full medical. It's a great plan. Of course, they also have the whole getting shot at thing to deal with, but a lot more CHP officers die from suicide or other personal events than get shot, so I figure the odds aren't really all that bad for them to make it to retirement if they choose to stick it out.
As you say, planning ahead is the trick no matter what job you have. My Mom is sticking it out in her current job to ensure she has no gaps in medical insurance. She needs to work until 63.5, then she gets 18 months of some sort of unemployment coverage, then medicare or whatever kicks in at 65. And her retirement is pretty much a cash and investment deal through her company, so she is sitting on a decent pot of money for retirement. Add in a social security check that might barely cover her property taxes (Calif), and she's pretty much set for life unless runaway inflation or a massive recession chops away her retirement investments buying power. But that's what investment diversification is for, so I don't think she'll end up out on the street. But getting where she is financially has taken some 45 years of financial discipline and planning, and most Americans are too short sighted and undisciplined to do anything for that long.
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Originally posted by Sundowner
Thanks, sir.
We're gearing up to be first time buyers and it looks like it's becoming more and more of a buyer's market.
Buying a home is often a good way to use money (and debt) for your benefit. As long as you don't get greedy and buy a home that you MUST sell for a profit within a short timeframe, home ownership can be a great thing.
Something Lazs touched on that you need to consider - property taxes. Do your research on property taxes before you buy, because you'll be paying those no matter what your income is and no matter if you own the house outright or not. That's one reason why retirees have been streaming to undeveloped parts of Arizona for the last decade... They realized they could get a nice standard of living and cut their living expenses in half, at the cost of moving somewhere where those damn kids don't want to live because it's in the middle of nowhere. So just pay attention to all the extra costs you'll face, as lazs pointed out.
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Originally posted by Sundowner
Raising four children on one income with low rent always gave me incentive not to double or triple my housing costs by buying a house and forcing my wife to go to work. ;)
We always liked the idea of Mom home with the kids instead of daycare or babysitter.
Right there folks, is the benefit.
My wife has been a stay at home mom for 13 years now. I wouldn't want it any other way. Not to say I don't "let" her work or that she isn't good enough to create our family income. She made the choice, and continues to make the choice, to stay home and care for our children. I will work everyday as long and as hard as I need to in order for her to be able to stay home for our kids. Debt? You bet we got it. Well, if you call mortgage, utilities and a car payment debt. We don't use credit cards.
Way to go Sun!
:aok
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Ahh, nice. I stopped working to stay at home with the kids until they were all well into full-day school (now I work only during school hours). It was the best 8 years of our family's life ~ there won't ever be another 8 years like it.
to y'all ~ and I'm glad to see that y'all are getting to enjoy something so wonderful! :)
Of course, financially it sucked sometimes... but none of that came even close to matching how wonderful it was.