Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: FiLtH on February 10, 2008, 12:38:08 AM

Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: FiLtH on February 10, 2008, 12:38:08 AM
But it would be nice if there was a system that eachplayer had launch points. An La7 may cost 10 points to up, an F4F 3 points. If base A1 is under attack and the player ups to defend, and dies, points are subtracted from his pool.  

Lets say the 262 has 20 point launch cost.  

If the max point pool limit is 20, he could up 1 262 from base A1. If he dies, he has no points available at base A1 and must up elsewhere. Player 2 also ups at base A1 but decides to do so in a P40B. If the P40B was worth 1 point, he could up from that base 20 times.

  This would give some form of attrition to the game without ruining gameplay. Just a thought.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Saxman on February 10, 2008, 01:11:48 AM
It's not a completely bad idea. However I expect the furballers to start throwing a fit in about....5 seconds.

Better idea:

Have launch points apply to certain aircraft only. IE, weaker aircraft (F4Fs, Zeros, Spit I and V, etc) would not use up launch points, but late-war monsters (F4U-1A/C/D and 4, Spixteen, Spit XIV, La-7, Me-262 and 163 (both of which I STILL think should be removed outright :p ) 109K-4, Tempest, etc) would cost points. Additionally, which aircraft require points would be dependent on the arena (IE, in the Late War arena, the F4U-1 is sufficiently surpassed by the later models that it shouldn't cost launch points, however in Mid War where she's a more dominating ride she would).
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Hazard69 on February 10, 2008, 02:27:05 AM
Isn't the perk system supposed to do just that? I have to shell out perkies to fly my P38G in EW.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Karnak on February 10, 2008, 04:15:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hazard69
Isn't the perk system supposed to do just that? I have to shell out perkies to fly my P38G in EW.

No, the perk system limits your ability to fly certain aircraft without earning the points to use them.

This system would limit your ability to fly more than x times from a given base (or x times tier 1 aircraft) in order to simulate the limited resources and stop people from upping repeatedly for vulchfests.  You could just go to a different base to take off in your chosen aircraft, unlike trying to take off in a 262 when you only have 20 perk points and it is denied globally.

I'm not endorsing it, just pointing out the difference.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: FrodeMk3 on February 10, 2008, 04:58:04 AM
The idea has some merit, Filth.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Ghosth on February 10, 2008, 08:31:24 AM
Keep kicking it around for another month or 2, but I see potential there.

I don't know if HT would ever implement something like that, but its worth discussing. Congrats for having a good new idea filth!
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Hazard69 on February 10, 2008, 08:35:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak:
No, the perk system limits your ability to fly certain aircraft without earning the points to use them.

This system would limit your ability to fly more than x times from a given base (or x times tier 1 aircraft) in order to simulate the limited resources and stop people from upping repeatedly for vulchfests. You could just go to a different base to take off in your chosen aircraft, unlike trying to take off in a 262 when you only have 20 perk points and it is denied globally.

I'm not endorsing it, just pointing out the difference.


Ah! Thanks for that:o .
So this simulates the limited resources available at each field........
Hmm....it definitely does have potenial:cool: :aok !
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: hubsonfire on February 10, 2008, 10:43:23 AM
Aside from making vulching the best way to ruin gameplay for others, what exactly would this accomplish? Is this meant to keep people from defending fields, making the CTF aspect of the game easier? Attrition in a game with no real war dynamic?

Not sure coding in ways to make flight more difficult or timeconsuming is a good thing in a game that centers around aerial combat. This would only reward the timid- those who fly only in packs, don't take risks, engage only where there is a pronounced advantage- all lousy for gameplay.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Lusche on February 10, 2008, 10:58:21 AM
It will prevent people from defending fields. Not saying that upping repeatedly is the smartest way to defend - But sometimes the only possible.

Now after a few desperate attempts to get all that goons & m3's out there in La7's, you will be reduced to flying P40B's?

Not a good idea in my opinion.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Bosco123 on February 10, 2008, 11:17:37 AM
My only problem with this, We will have 262's up at every feild and there would be no point playing. Heres to add to this idea: Make it almost the perk system that we have now were you start lets say 10 points, you yp 109G-6, for example, and you kill you kill a spit 16. you land and you go up 5 points, now you are at 15. Lets say you upagain but you die to a spit 16 this time. Only you lose 2 points, back to 13. Now you kill 5 spits and your points go up to 25 points, Then you can buy a 262.

Just my thought.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Tilt on February 10, 2008, 11:32:10 AM
AW scripts allowed the arena master to set plane limits per field against a time criteria.

For a scenario the time per reset would be the frame time but it could be set at e.g 10 minutes.

Each plane enabled at a field would then be able to be launched # times until the period "refreshed".

You could actually set the number of each planes available during the period individually per plane type.

This way you could set attrition per field per time. Only used in scenarios and special events. (when a CM could make the scripts work)
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Meatwad on February 10, 2008, 11:54:22 AM
I dont like it.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Allen Rune on February 10, 2008, 12:10:50 PM
i think tilt has a good idea there but instead of a time limit you could have convoys from like an aircraft factory bring aircraft/aircraft parts to assemble at the field

makes for good realistic gameplay
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Guppy35 on February 10, 2008, 04:55:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Aside from making vulching the best way to ruin gameplay for others, what exactly would this accomplish? Is this meant to keep people from defending fields, making the CTF aspect of the game easier? Attrition in a game with no real war dynamic?

Not sure coding in ways to make flight more difficult or timeconsuming is a good thing in a game that centers around aerial combat. This would only reward the timid- those who fly only in packs, don't take risks, engage only where there is a pronounced advantage- all lousy for gameplay.


Yep.  More reason to join the horde, and promote the vulch and steam roll.

Fly timid, fly in the pack, take no chances engaging etc.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Rino on February 10, 2008, 08:44:36 PM
Just name it Reward the Horde..we're done here.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: FiLtH on February 10, 2008, 10:19:26 PM
A horde will dominate regardless. This way both sides are affected. The horde that is careless comes back in less a plane. Like I said..against the tide.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Lusche on February 10, 2008, 11:07:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
A horde will dominate regardless. This way both sides are affected. The horde that is careless comes back in less a plane. Like I said..against the tide.


It would still favor the attacker, as the defending side usually has much higher losses than the attacking one. Now it would be much more risky to up from a suppressed field. It would amplify the attackers advantages.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Saxman on February 10, 2008, 11:25:15 PM
But on the other hand, maybe people would finally start to see that the BEST way to defend a field is to up from a nearby base further back and come in with altitude, rather than continuously try to roll from the capped base and pad the scores of the vulchers. :rolleyes:

Most base attackers are so committed to the low-level fight (capping the field, taking down town, eliminating GVs) that they aren't prepared for new bad guys coming in further back, so rarely maintain top cover. Nothing more satisfying than cherry-picking the vulchers :D
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: moot on February 10, 2008, 11:51:11 PM
Too restrictive.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Flayed1 on February 11, 2008, 12:12:44 AM
I actually like this idea....  and oh my gosh this is coming from the horde side!!

  I was a member of the BOP's for several years and I still fly on channel with them because they are a good friendly bunch of guys to fly with but don't join all the missions... Being part of the horde as so many labled us I don't see this as a bad thing.  Hitting a base hard and vulching the uppers is easy be they in LA's or SBD's it doesn't matter a bunch, a vulch is a vulch, a kill is a kill..  

 It is much harder to defend against a bunch of cons coming into the base your trying to take, from another field than to vulch LA's coming off the one your vulching....  

  Anymore when bish are trying to defend a base I up from a base a sector away and find most vulchers can't handle someone coming in from a good alt with speed.

 Sounds to me like a few of the NON Horde bunch are upset at the thought of people not uping at the field they are vulching for them to vulch..

[EDIT]  Saxman gets it :)
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: moot on February 11, 2008, 12:16:20 AM
No.. Why should I not be able to fly because some tool augered his plane or got himself shot to pieces?
Not in the MA anyway. Maybe in the AvA arena.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Flayed1 on February 11, 2008, 12:29:44 AM
I'm assuming that he was talking points per pilot like perks...  Then it would only be if you were the tool that augered his plane or got it shot to pieces :)
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: moot on February 11, 2008, 12:40:30 AM
That might work.. But I don't think it's perfect.  It would give good furballs that would've lasted longer an artificial end.
I guess it could be worth a try, but it looks like one of those things like ENY or arena caps that could unduely turn people right off and make them log.

Saying the best way to defend a field is to up from another one sounds like common sense, but in reality it's yet another way to force players to play a certain way.  That's not what the MA's about, is it?..
Score is irrelevant.
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Flayed1 on February 11, 2008, 01:15:22 AM
Are you saying that a vulchfest is a furball????  And as for making players play a different way I don't see that either.   If lower end planes were left free then they could still up and be vulched to their hearts content just as if they were in a high ENY plane.

 The problem I see is if you couldnt up a higher end plane at a neighboring base then you could be screwed..

 But this entire topic really doesn't matter much because we have the pinwheel map of doom that HT loves so much that can hardly ever be reset. :cry
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: Ghastly on February 11, 2008, 09:59:18 AM
Quote
But on the other hand, maybe people would finally start to see that the BEST way to defend a field is to up from a nearby base further back and come in with altitude, rather than continuously try to roll from the capped base and pad the scores of the vulchers.


I'm neither necessarily for nor against the idea yet, but would like to point out that given current game settings, an unopposed force can capture 7 to 10 times over in the amount of time that it takes you to up from a field a sector away and come to defend.  

Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: swareiam on February 11, 2008, 12:10:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Aside from making vulching the best way to ruin gameplay for others, what exactly would this accomplish? Is this meant to keep people from defending fields, making the CTF aspect of the game easier? Attrition in a game with no real war dynamic?

Not sure coding in ways to make flight more difficult or timeconsuming is a good thing in a game that centers around aerial combat. This would only reward the timid- those who fly only in packs, don't take risks, engage only where there is a pronounced advantage- all lousy for gameplay.


I see both sides; vulchers want the ability and opportunity to pad their score and pretty much rape other seemingly brave players.

Uppers want the convenience to get into the fight fast without having to think about how the heck I'm going to keep twenty RED cons from smoking me twenty times in a row.

The path of least resistance says this is what people want. So, why change it and for whom would you be making this change. Guys keep vulching and guys keep upping from capped bases.

I mean, has this trend changed over the last eight or nine years?

I believe for some this is how some pilots become better game players.

I though the whole point is to kill the VH, down the town, and bust the ack. Once that is done drop your troops. You need vulchers to make that happen.

On the other hand, if I get that LA-7 up and race over to kill the goon or the M3 before the troop drop. I am a skilled player and I am a hero. Right?

I say leave it the way it is in the MA.

Cheers:aok
Title: I know Im wishing against the tide here..
Post by: moot on February 11, 2008, 12:35:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Flayed1
Are you saying that a vulchfest is a furball????  And as for making players play a different way I don't see that either.   If lower end planes were left free then they could still up and be vulched to their hearts content just as if they were in a high ENY plane.

 The problem I see is if you couldnt up a higher end plane at a neighboring base then you could be screwed..

 But this entire topic really doesn't matter much because we have the pinwheel map of doom that HT loves so much that can hardly ever be reset. :cry

No, it means that the furball ends as soon as there's enough kills on one side, sort of like hitpoints.  Inflict enough and the furball's over, even if you're the one taking attrition right in the middle of a furball equidistant to both bases.

It artificialy caps the lifetime of furballs. Whether it's good for the MA would only be determined if HT weighed in or by trying it out.
There'd have to be the right balance of parameters like launch points regrowth etc.