Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Yarbles on February 12, 2008, 08:13:04 AM
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I am a fairly good Bomber Pilot in that I hit the target 8 out of 10 times in all the heavies and I kill cv's regularly. What I notice though is some people get much higher damage per sortie and accuracy than I do. Can anyone reveal the mysteries or why their scores are much higher. Is it what they Bomb. I assumed the strategic targets have most value. Is this correct?
Is there any data on how HTC values bomber targets in AH?
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Originally posted by Yarbles
What I notice though is some people get much higher damage per sortie and accuracy than I do. Can anyone reveal the mysteries or why their scores are much higher. Is it what they Bomb. I assumed the strategic targets have most value. Is this correct?
Yes. Hitting strategic targets maximises your hit% and score, hitting fields wrecks it. Therefore bombing hit% is probably the least meaningful single stat in game.
For maximum scoring effect, attack cities with large bombs ;)
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How about HQ and Ships?
Are cities better than Factories but factories better than fields and where do the above come in this?
I like the way score leans toward the strategic as otherwise this tyoe of Bombing might be overlooked. The ideal sortie I suppose is Lancs where you set a route and exit sttrategy which does not involve firing you guns?
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Originally posted by Lusche
Yes. Hitting strategic targets maximises your hit% and score, hitting fields wrecks it. Therefore bombing hit% is probably the least meaningful single stat in game.
For maximum scoring effect, attack cities with large bombs ;)
Here's what you do. Take one Lancaster with one 4k bomb. Drop only the 4k bomb on the town or city or some factory and rtb.
Let me warn you in the end it is meaningless and you will go back to doing what you enjoy, and that seems to be bombing cvs and bases.
For me, there is nothing better than helping and working with my squadies.
This should be in the wish list. I would like to see the scoring different. Obviously, bases are more important than the factories in the game. The scoring should reflect that.
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Think singular lanc with big uns or stuka time on innocent civilians at the city. Then re-arm two or three times so it counts as the same sortie. So in 3 drops you could kill 60 buildings hence over inflated hit %.
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Originally posted by Bruv119
Think singular lanc with big uns or stuka time on innocent civilians at the city. Then re-arm two or three times so it counts as the same sortie. So in 3 drops you could kill 60 buildings hence over inflated hit %.
And as such there are quite often a great many kills to be had over friendy towns with enemy airfields close-by.
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Basically the bigger concentration of buildings grouped together so you can kill in one drop the better.
In terms of gameplay the large maps have "Zone" fields. These are capturable and the strats will swap over if taken. If you were to level the city first and then go about smashing the radar, training and ammo factories. The enemy airfields attached to the zone field once porked will take much longer to come back up.
So looking at it strategically it would make it easier for a team to capture airfields within a specific area of the map but the amount of effort it would take would require alot of missions and squad co-ops.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
And as such there are quite often a great many kills to be had over friendy towns with enemy airfields close-by.
My favourite bomber fun recently is to take b17's go 7k 3 passes on town pretty much get it all dead. If any fighters up I get kills if no-one is about go gunship style and finish the remaining buildings off.
Usually people up though and I have fun shooting em down.
;)
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Originally posted by Bruv119
Think singular lanc with big uns or stuka time on innocent civilians at the city. Then re-arm two or three times so it counts as the same sortie. So in 3 drops you could kill 60 buildings hence over inflated hit %.
Cheers Bruv
Presumably town buildings arn't worth anything like as much as city buildings. Kind of silly though that there is an advatage in flying one bomer over 3. Do you re arm exactly the same as in a fighter and is it very difficult to get on the pad?
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i'm not 100% whether a town building or city building have the same point score Lusche??
Obviously hit % it doesn't matter.
Bruv
~S~
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Originally posted by Yarbles
Cheers Bruv
Presumably town buildings arn't worth anything like as much as city buildings. Kind of silly though that there is an advatage in flying one bomer over 3.
Advantage is relative...
Flying single Lanc vs. Lanc formation gives you a minor advantage in hit% ad a cost of much less overall bombing score points. Your damage per sortie is higher, but it can be a long tedious process utilizing that. And taking a formation does not prevent you from rearming. You drones just stay on the ground after first rearm ;)
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I got out of the strategic game completely. Yes, I know when you get big attacks going with multiple sets of bombers it can impact game play but for the most part its a big yawn. It also appears that many of the good bomber hunters have gotten out of it to.
Everything I do now in bombers is geared towards either base protection or base captures. If our CV is operating anywheres close I behead the ords on the closest enemy bases in KI-67s and almost always succeed. And its guaranteed to not help my score much but who cares?
Some of these guys almost everything they do they do to protect their ranks or increase it. Yes I know they are very good sticks either way but I wonder if they are really having fun?
AH has done a terrific job modeling these bombers. Most are real sweethearts to fly. Fly them they way you want and forget about scores and ranks. Or, like the top ranked guys, you can up bombers 10 or 20 times a month, climb to 25,000', and bomb strats that nobody even knows are there. Then YOU can be ranked #3 in bomber ranking without ever even shooting an enemy down.:lol
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Originally posted by Bruv119
i'm not 100% whether a town building or city building have the same point score Lusche??
Obviously hit % it doesn't matter.
Bruv
~S~
I am not sure... I believe city gives more points, but I wouldnt put my money on that. I think I will do a test today or tomorrow.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
I Some of these guys almost everything they do they do to protect their ranks or increase it. Yes I know they are very good sticks either way but I wonder if they are really having fun?
AH has done a terrific job modeling these bombers. Most are real sweethearts to fly. Fly them they way you want and forget about scores and ranks. Or, like the top ranked guys, you can up bombers 10 or 20 times a month, climb to 25,000', and bomb strats that nobody even knows are there. Then YOU can be ranked #3 in bomber ranking without ever even shooting an enemy down.:lol
God Point I tend only to fly strategic when I am stdying for and exam (no Iam not a squeeker, i have to maintain my investment liscence) or doing something around the house. I leave them on a climb etc for 15 20 min at a time. That way its great fun ;)
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Originally posted by Lusche
I am not sure... I believe city gives more points, but I wouldnt put my money on that. I think I will do a test today or tomorrow.
Please let me know the result.
The problem with bombing towns over cities is bombing towns could do more harm that good to you side.
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its all bases on how much damage you can cause with 1 bomb.
1 bomb on 1 building=100% and "X" amount of points
1 bomb on 4 buildings=400% and 4 times the points
3 bombs on 1 fighter hanger= 33% and "x" amount of points
So looking for the biggest concentration of targets, and put the smallest number of bombs on it will give you the best points/score.
My targets are VHs and towns. I can't hit a CV to save my life, and I only do the other to help out when Im getting especially hammered in fighters, and my bomber scores show me as a pretty darn good buff pilot :rolleyes:
I agree there must be a better way to score and rank buffs.
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There is no difference in value between a town building and a city building. A building is a building. The key is to get as many as possible with the fewest bombs possible.
Obviously, bigger bombs take more buildings at a time than smaller bombs, although sometimes, with the right concentration of buildings, dropping 2 or more bombs is actually beneficial as the proximity damage area between the bombs seems to be intensified, dropping more buildings with, say, two bombs spaced than you could with one, then another in another area.
Buildings and hangers work differently. If you drop 1 1000 lb bomb and take out 4 buildings you get a 400% damage ratio. If you drop 3 1000 lb bombs and take out a hanger, it's closer to 100% due to the hardness of the hanger.
So, in conclusion, to maximize your bomber score, hit targets with high concentrations of soft targets with as big of bombs as you can carry and space them properly for maximum proximity damage.
[EDIT] BTW, points work differently between buildings and hangers also. As an example, I used to fly Lancs against VB's a lot. I could take out 9-12 hangers (on the old VB layout) with 14x1000 lb bombs x3 for ~400,000 points (we'll average a bit and say ~38000 points per hanger or 2040 points per bomb). Now I usually fly AR234's against strats taking ~21 buildings at 250,000 points with 3x500 Kg (slightly greater than 1000 lbs) bombs x3 (~12,000 points per building or 2800 points per bomb).
These are just estimates but as you can see, the points per 1000 lbs of bombs remain relatively stable (within range due to estimations) while the points per object do not, so, you need to kill several (3-4) buildings to equal one hanger from a points perspective but hitting the buildings adds the benefit of a higher hit %.
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Originally posted by Yarbles
Please let me know the result.
.
Ok, killing one single City building gave me 1585 damage points. A single town building resulted in 1360 damage points. I used P47 guns to ensure that i did get only a single building each time.
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Originally posted by Lusche
Ok, killing one single City building gave me 1585 damage points. A single town building resulted in 1360 damage points. I used P47 guns to ensure that i did get only a single building each time.
You should have used 1 bomb, seen how many buildings it takes down and divide points by buildings. Damage points are dependent on how many rounds you put into the target and using machine guns may have influenced the result (possible over-spray into another structure?). You may have also caused proximity damage to another structure without actually dropping it, which would also influence your result using either method.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
You should have used 1 bomb, seen how many buildings it takes down and divide points by buildings. Damage points are dependent on how many rounds you put into the target and using machine guns may have influenced the result (possible over-spray into another structure?). You may have also caused proximity damage to another structure without actually dropping it, which would also influence your result using either method.
Shooting with .50 cals doesn't damage structures not hit, as they don't have a blast radius. And actually I did not take a bomb for that very reason: I would most probably have damaged other structures without knowing by proximity, thus skewing the damage points even more.
I think it's reasonable to say both city as well as town buildings give more or less the same bombing score points.
But....to be continued! ;)
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Well if you shot all the builds around a building, THEN came back and hit the single with a bomb you would know. :D
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Well if you shot all the builds around a building, THEN came back and hit the single with a bomb you would know. :D
Actually no bad idea, just hard to do in MA.. I rarely get the opportunity to do that unmolested at enemy cites :noid
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Is it then:
1)You get the best score by bombing Buildings.
2)This is best achived using large rather than small bombs as all are hits so to speak.
3)Best Results are achived where buildings are close together so you get several buildings in the blast radius.
4)Flying single bombers will be more accurate and more likely to give higher per sortie damage. The down side of this is your overall damage will be less.
First question is : Is the above correct?
Second Question: How is score related between the various ares i.e. do they all have the same waiting or is overall damage for example more important than accuracy. Is it in other words best to concentrate on you weakest area becuse all your rankings are simply added together and he with the least points (ranks) is ranked no 1. In this case it is easier and more productive to move from say 300 to 200 rank in one area than 10 to 8 in another.
Does anyone know the answer to this one?
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Originally posted by Yarbles
Is it in other words best to concentrate on you weakest area becuse all your rankings are simply added together and he with the least points (ranks) is ranked no 1.
Yup, that's the way the ranking works.
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yes and yes.
As your overall bomber score is an average of all 5 categories the higest number is holding you back. Looking at your bomber score at the moment indeed it is your hit %.
Your strength is damage points. Sometimes if you try hard at one category another will slip. For example next month you adopt the points you have noted to improve your overall score. You may find that your ranking in damage points will drop because you are doing it differently.
This applies to all the other scoring areas aswell.
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I am not going oo obsess about bomber scores next month if I get ranked no 1. Next month I will obsess about something else.
Seriously though I do enjoy understanding how the game works. It seems for me the way forward is to keep re-upping a single Lanc with big bombs and accurately hitting the nearest undefended town on the same sortie.
That way.
Damage per sortie, Damage per death and accuracy will increase. The only other thing is to capture some more bases in a goon.
Is that right?
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If you are really flying for rank, do not bomb towns. Buildings are spread out too far. Attack strategic targets only, most preferably cities.
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Originally posted by Lusche
If you are really flying for rank, do not bomb towns. Buildings are spread out too far. Attack strategic targets only, most preferably cities.
Agreed but Cities can be along way away and dangerous to reach, so its a judgement call. For example if you spend 2 hours doing the round trip thats only one sortie and you may get shot down. Multiple safe raids as long as you can see your score going up may be better as in damage per sotie you can take the same plane up more than once, damage per death as above so I beleive the only tangable benefit would be accuracy. Do you agree if the nearest city is deep in enemy territory you will only benefit from accuracy?
Do you get a better accuracy score by destroying 4 buildings with one bomb compared to one or are they the same. This would be the crucial factor in making cities attractive targets?
BTW if anyone thinks this is not in the spirit of the game I would challenge that as strategic bombing is about achiving the maximum effect from minnimum loss. To that end I would argue the game would be better served by making city buildings worth considerably more than town buildings. City workers are generally allot more productive as can be seen by higher wages paid in cities.
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If you can't reach a city go for other strategic targets, but do not attack towns if scoring and ranking is your goal.
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Originally posted by Lusche
If you can't reach a city go for other strategic targets, but do not attack towns if scoring and ranking is your goal.
mmmmmmmmmmm but you said town buildings were worh nearly he same as City Buildings?
Are you suggesting I should not bomb towns as the game is unbalanced in this area?
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Originally posted by Yarbles
mmmmmmmmmmm but you said town buildings were worh nearly he same as City Buildings?
Are you suggesting I should not bomb towns as the game is unbalanced in this area?
lol, no worries about unbalancing.
Towns are small. Town buildings are dispersed. You can't get that many points, and your hit% will suffer.
However, again this is a guidline for pure score maximising only - wich may not be the most fun way to play ;)
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Originally posted by Lusche
lol, no worries about unbalancing.
Towns are small. Town buildings are dispersed. You can't get that many points, and your hit% will suffer.
However, again this is a guidline for pure score maximising only - wich may not be the most fun way to play ;)
I see so the only real benefit of hitting cities over town in terms of rank is hit score %. Presumably since big bombs are reccomended this is best maximised with singly delivered block busters (4000lb Lanc bombs) in the middle of built up parts of the city?
Its odd in my opinion that accuracy doesnt control for bomb size as accuracy for me would be proximity to the target. Am i understanding this correctly?
And thanks for the input?
Just as a kiss bellybutton when I ve been flying with the squad people say check the 262/nikki whatever at say 10 oclock "its lusche" in the manner that you are held in awe and respect in the game. Thought you might like to know if you dont know already :D
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Originally posted by Yarbles
I see so the only real benefit of hitting cities over town in terms of rank is hit score %. Presumably since big bombs are reccomended this is best maximised with singly delivered block busters (4000lb Lanc bombs) in the middle of built up parts of the city?
Score hit% and sheer amount of bombing score points. A good formation bombing run on a city can give you 1.5 million points.
Big bombs are to be preferred. You can take the 4k + 9x 1k. But when I was going for #1 some time ago, I always took the 6x2k+3x500lbs for city busting.
You may also consider using B24s with 4x2k. You spend less time at climbing and you have better guns in case you actually get intercepted.
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Originally posted by Yarbles
Just as a kiss bellybutton when I ve been flying with the squad people say check the 262/nikki whatever at say 10 oclock "its lusche" in the manner that you are held in awe and respect in the game.
Occasional ugly PM's say otherwise, but then I price any insults or cheating accusations more than medals & perks :D
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Originally posted by Lusche
Occasional ugly PM's say otherwise, but then I price any insults or cheating accusations more than medals & perks :D
Indeed I am sure each one represents a boil of a dweeb lanced. One of those people who massively overestimate themselves in the game and are therefore always criticising everyone else accusing them of hoing, cheating ganging whatever. Basicaly what I will be like after I get the No1 spot:D
thanks again I will atempt to ratchet up now from 7th, but I may have chosen a bad month as I am going to be away for a week next week :(
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You could always take the approach I do to city strat bombing. I fly nothing but AR234's.
A flight of 3 AR234's at 16K and 415 mph inbound to target and 470 mph outbound aren't likely to be killed, even in the highest density enemy areas, although it does happen from time to time.
Normally I end up around the top 10-15 with a 600-700 hit %, very few deaths (mostly in goons), and therefore very high damage per death and decent damage per sortie numbers (usually in the top 100 of both stats). You can score 250-350,000 points per run if you hit the target right and take anywhere from 17-35% (normally ~25%) of a city down in 1 pass at full speed.
As an added bonus, if you are chased, it's usually by a 262 and I've gotten to wound one (smoked an engine) and kill another over the past few months with my tail guns :)
Of course, the Lunkcasters score better but flight time is vastly increased and the chances of being shot down are much higher.
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I would like to see a flight of High speed un armed Mossie bombers for this role as an alternative to the 234 but carrying 3 x 4000.
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great thread
:aok
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Originally posted by haasehole
great thread :aok
:aok
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your doing good yarbles !
Just need some more re-armed stuka runs against some cities!
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Originally posted by Bruv119
your doing good yarbles !
FFS your not doing badly yourself. Overall rank 7
;)
I am going to try single lanc runs on the cities using the 6x2000 package and re upping where possible. Is this the best loadout and can you bring the 500's back with you. I think this will be good for hit%, damage per sorties and damage per death.
The downside of this strategy is surviving which means lots of height and the average sortie lasting over one and a half hours. The up side is you can be AFK for most of that. Is there a shortcut. I have tried B24'S but their 2k bombs dont seem to do much damage!!
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Also I have worked out Choker41 is no.2 (he told me) but how can I find out who is no1?
And how often are the scores up dated?
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Ahh I don't play for rank anymore (see tour 87) I just kill/blow things up.
That will work with the lancs. It is much easier if you can get into the enemies backyard. When one team is pushed back to its HQ you need to get in and punish those cities. City, radar and refinery are the easiest.
goto community, scores, click get ranks, then click bomber (it will shortlist that category)
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Originally posted by Yarbles
Also I have worked out Choker41 is no.2 (he told me) but how can I find out who is no1?
And how often are the scores up dated?
Your score is upadet immedeately after ending sortie.
Ranks are updated once a day.
And finding #1 is very easy... just look it up on the score pages -> pilot ranks
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Please bear in mind Yarbles it looks like VIX and Choker both have the bomber scoring down to a fine art. The weighting of damage points should be worth more in my opinion.
Your many runs and many more buildings destroyed get nullified by their hit %. So your putting in alot of time and effort for them to rank higher.
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I uppen B-26s the other night and somehow hit an enemy Cv that was crossing my path. I was at 11k and it was just dumb luck. Corky was in the room by the Cv at the time and immediately demoted me. I am still LO (Latrine Officer) as there is nothing below my current rank. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Shuffler
I uppen B-26s the other night and somehow hit an enemy Cv that was crossing my path. I was at 11k and it was just dumb luck. Corky was in the room by the Cv at the time and immediately demoted me. I am still LO (Latrine Officer) as there is nothing below my current rank. :rolleyes:
Thanks for that :D
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Here:
HQ>Cities>Factories>Ships>Fields.
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Originally posted by SpikesX
Here:
HQ>Cities>Factories>Ships>Fields.
But if you dont destroy the HQ you get nothing which is hard to do with even 3 Lancs. Am I right?
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Originally posted by Yarbles
But if you dont destroy the HQ you get nothing which is hard to do with even 3 Lancs. Am I right?
Huh? I think he's talking about which targets are most valuable (in terms of gaining points/rank).